I think its hilarious how Crescendo gains a Full 1 Star to its rating in the last 23 seconds of the map. QUALITY
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dj TAKA - quaver
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This paragraph is the real problem I have with your reply. You admit that you respected pitch too much, and it resulted in less interesting jump patterns. You claim that a good 95% of the map respects the song well, yet the community doesn't really seem to agree. Many people were angry on the thread because they think the people complaining are complaining because it's pp jumps/jump training, but I believe that the real reason your map was voted fairly low when it was qualified was because the jumps DON'T respect the song well, and Xexxar even went as far as to pop the bubble on this map. You're denying basically everything people are pointing out, and it doesn't really make sense to me because the map is no longer qualified at this point, yet your denies are pretty stretched reasoning. At this point, why wouldn't you try to improve the map?Shiguma wrote:
The pitch there suggests a more intense section, while Shiirn was arguing that the 3 notes at the end were more intense. I'm using pitch as an indicator of spacing, not an absolute measure of spacing. It's sad because I already respect pitch in many sections of the song. Too many. If i respected pitch less, I would be able to create even more interesting jump patterns, but there needs to be a good balance of respecting the song, and not completely following the song. I'm confident a good 95% of the map already respects the song well. You just pointed out sections where I intentionally didn't, and I really can't objectively argue that spacing "should" be how it is, other than that the patterns I've set up already play very well, are angled and structured in a way that make a lot of sense and create interesting flows and motions. However, if the entire map followed the higher pitch = higher spacing concept, it would be really bland as there would be far too many restrictions. Play the jumps, they won't throw you off. Your modding sense is just saying that it's not consistent with a popular mappign concept..., but maps are meant to be played, not viewed.Monstrata wrote:
If we're doing it by pitch, why is 03:21:444 (1,2) - less spacing than 03:21:767 (1,2) - when going from 1 to 2? Shouldn't the spacing be increasing throughout 03:21:444 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2)? Nope. Spacing is lower here because I'm just using a different pattern entirely. Higher pitch doesn't need to have a higher spacing. I respect it sometimes, but not always, especially here where I want to utilize a rotational flow between jumps in order to emphasize 03:22:251 (2,1) - . The jumps are structured so that the wider angle of 03:22:251 (2,1) - creates a pivot angle that allows the player to be properly oriented for the final cross-screen jumps. Alright, sure
And if we're doing it by pitch, why is 03:22:735 (1,2,3,4,5) - all random spacings? The 5 notes sound identical to each other, and you're not making any visual pattern using 03:22:735 (1,2,3,4,5) - either, so why is 03:22:735 (1,2) - 6.41x DS but then 03:22:896 (2,3) - only 5.48x DS? How am I not making any visual pattern? ... But anyways, I want to utilize the entire screen using these jumps, encompassing as much of the play-area as possible.
03:22:896 (2,3,4,5) - Is a visual pattern, sure, but it has no correlation to 03:22:735 (1) - except that it's in the other corner compared to 03:22:896 (2). What I meant was the five notes 03:22:735 (1,2,3,4,5) - doesn't really create something that can be considered a pattern imo. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6025555 What does this make? A "P"? Compare this to what you did before, which was https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6025563, which could be called a pentagon or a star It's a symmetrical pattern... 1>2 symmetry, 2>3>4>5, symmetry, and it creates a vector shifting motion from x+y to just x during the transitioning angles of 2>3>4. Originally 03:23:541 (1) - was at the bottom right corner. I elected to do a slightly smaller jump in order so show the reduction of intensity, that's all.
And then in 03:23:541 (1,2,3) - 03:23:864 (3) - is quite distinguishable from 03:23:541 (1,2) - yet the spacing is basically the same between 03:23:541 (1,2,3)? That's fine. I want to use symmetry here to close out the pattern. 3 is distinguishable from the other 2 circles anyways, because there's a spinner following it, so players don't just click/release like usual jumps, then click, and proceed to spin, so when you play this, you do feel a shift in impact that matches the held crash sound of 3. Not everything needs to be distinguished by an increase in spacing. Circle > Circle and Circle > Spinner already creates a distinguishable change in play. I guess, but it still doesn't feel right to me because although there are many people who say 03:23:541 (1,2,3) - is lower pitch, I don't think it really makes sense to make the jumps for those 3 smaller than 03:22:735 (1,2,3,4,5) - because it's the climax of the song, yet the jumps are not as big as the previous 5 notes. And many people have said the opposite of the pitch argument for the jumps, and even you had it the other way around in the past, so I would think that the last 3 being the biggest spacing would make more sense. We just have to disagree then, because I believe the last 3 notes should be less emphatic. You say the last 3 notes are the climax. I think the first 5 are. Our views simply differ on a basic level here, and you back your argument on the assumption that those 3 notes should be the climax, so there's not much I can say because I disagree with your fundamental assessment of the song here.
Doesn't really make sense to me how you're claiming you're doing the spacing by pitch and then in the map I'm seeing inconsistent spacing when using your reasoning, and you're not really making any distinguishable visual pattern with 03:22:735 (1,2,3,4,5) - either so I'm not sure how it could be explained with that either.
You may believe the map is of sufficient quality, but a lot of the community didn't believe so. You also mention that if you followed pitch for the whole song, it would be really bland, which I 100% agree with (people don't map like that). However, do you really believe that your map as is, is interesting? Let me answer that for you: No, you don't.[/color]
So, the jumps aren't really that interesting, and you know it. And again, you claim 95% of the map respects the song, yet you ignore many sounds, VINXIS wrote parts where the map was inconsistent, other people have modded the map too, etc.Monstrata wrote:
If i respected pitch less, I would be able to create even more interesting jump patterns
So the last 8 notes you claim have interesting flows and motions. I don't think many would agree. In fact, the last 8 notes feel so hollow to play (I did as you said and tried to the best of my ability to play the map. Maps are meant to be played, and yet this is the conclusion I came to). 03:12:412 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - is several magnitudes more interesting to play than the final 8 notes. Yeah, they didn't throw me off. At all. What does that tell you about the final 8 notes when play so smooth that they have no impact while playing them? My modding sense might be off because maps are meant to be played, not viewed, but playing this map doesn't feel too great either. They are interesting. Of course. But so are the jumps winding up to the finale. The rotational flow creates a winding momentum, like if you were watching the Olympics, you can compare it to the hammer toss. The pivot angle from 03:22:251 (2,1,2) - is integral to setting up the jumps. If I just used another vertically linear formation like 03:21:767 (1,2) - then you would be correct in saying the jump pattern didn't play interestingly. That was how I originally arranged the notes actually, because originally the double symmetry looked appealing from an aesthetic standpoint, but I ultimately changed that after initial testplays and mods. How it current is arranged actually isn't as aesthetically symmetrical, but it blends this rotational flow with the cross screen jumps at the end by providing that sharper angle, and bridging the two patterns aesthetically.
Another point, and this could be shown in other places on the map as well, 01:29:590 (4,5,6,7,8) - even if we ignore the decreasing pitch (because as you said we don't need to follow pitch all the time), the bigger triangle is 01:29:913 (6,7,8) - even though the bass kicks out (resulting in less intensity) but 01:29:590 (4,5,6) - is the bigger triangle. This is just me doing some more interesting jump placements that correlate more with the right hand rhythm. Big set of 3, small set of 3, then 2 jumps at the end to reset the rhythm. You see a lot of 123 - 123 - 12 rhythms in mapping, The last two 1,2 are necessary to reset the rhythm going into the next measure.
You can do much better, and you know it. You're limiting yourself with the crescendo theme too much, and if you tried remapping the problem areas of your map, biggest example being your kiai at the end, you could do a much better job and even follow your crescendo theme better.
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Thanks for your words. Hopefully you understand my ideas better.
I guess most of the discussion has been resolved, it's time to get it rolling again~
Please don't do destructive comments. If you don't like the map, don't post. Thanks!-REfluxIT wrote:
This garbage better not get ranked.
Topic Starter
Where's fatsune miku when you need him.
Support for Monstrata and his awesome Crescendo. A beautiful challenge for both hands 
Even if this never gets ranked Haru's map will be in my warmup folder forever. It's really fun to play <3
Well done!
Well done!
yeah seems all has been explained already.Irreversible wrote:
I guess most of the discussion has been resolved, it's time to get it rolling again~
I really love this map, I have no idea about mapping, will it be ranked some day? Can I help the map to get ranked?
lets try again (happy birthday kibbleru <3)
(happy birthday kibbleru <3)Oh here we go
I guess happy birthday Kibbleru
I guess happy birthday Kibbleru
regrats!!!!!!
Sing wrote:
regretsSatellite wrote:
regrats!!!!!!
First lets drain the player stamina for 2 mins with 1/2 rhythm and 5* patterns.. after it lets challenge him with screen jumps with 9 OD...
Nice consitency, until 02:50:677 (1) - the map have 6,18* max, after it gain 1,2* until the end...
Pro (y)
Nice consitency, until 02:50:677 (1) - the map have 6,18* max, after it gain 1,2* until the end...
Pro (y)
Topic Starter
Thanks!