im heavily offended
lewa is probably among the top10 most accurate players in osu, right behind bikko, HDHR, xilver and maybe a couple others.Husky wrote:
And then, there was thelewa, who's never been a talented player. He repeated many times that he sucked in rhythm games. Yet, he was one of the best players in the world through insane hard work he put in.
My actual stats are nowhere close to what is listed on my profile and the same could be said about most players which is why your argument is 100% pointless. There is no such thing as talent. Just mindset. If you live and breath circles you will be better at them then other people. That has 100% nothing to do with talent. Saying that someone is at the top because they are both talented and worked hard is stupid and is honestly an insult to those players. It had nothing to do with talent.Railey2 wrote:
To make this a bit more clear:chainpullz wrote:
This post is flawed because you can acquire play count etc from playing maps that wouldn't even give you pp for an SS. Not everyone goes hard every hour of every day. Some people still choose to play even on days where they are both physically and mentally exhausted and not capable of making top performance plays. Does this have anything to do with "talent"? No.
Your entire notion of talent is flawed if you are basing it off rank/pp/playcount.
If you misapply your effort (never going hard, only playing for SS, depriving yourself of sleep for the sake of playing more..), this can also be a reason why you don't see results.
But what I said about talent is still true. Keep in mind that I mentioned how pp and playcount (better: hitcount), are just approximations for skill and effort, not perfect representations of it. It is just a way to estimate how talented you are. I will claim that it generally works, if you don't do some super crazy shit like only playing while blindfolded. Forming the average of the people around you and comparing yourself to it will give you a basic idea of where you fall. -/+ 2 million hitcount around the average and you are probably fine. More than that? Probably lacking talent.
Take yourself as an example. You have 9,587,322 hits and are rank 8k.
You are already in the untalented-bracket, by approximation. You will never make it to the top and should give up on it. You'll make it to top500 tops. There are other reasons to play the game.
You are one of the people that hate admitting to themselves that there are forces outside of their control that affect what they can reasonably achieve.chainpullz wrote:
There is no such thing as talent. Just mindset. If you live and breath circles you will be better at them then other people. That has 100% nothing to do with talent. Saying that someone is at the top because they are both talented and worked hard is stupid and is honestly an insult to those players. It had nothing to do with talent.
Talent is an excuse people make for not having the drive to succeed. It is an admittance to defeat. This doesn't just apply to circles. It applies to pretty much everything in life.
winber1 wrote:
completely random extreme cases
Dw fam I know how to quantify my arguments to avoid extreme cases. :^)chainpullz wrote:
pretty much everything in life.
As I said, mindset. When it comes to matters of knowledge/intellect "work" doesn't simply apply to like actually doing problems and shit. Both conscious and subconscious thinking apply here as well. People who are good at math are good at math because they see and think about everything in the world in a very mathematical way. They are in essence "working" just by living their life. If you want to go as far as to call things like that talent I would still say that is just disrespectful to those people, at least to use it in this sort of context. Most of these "talented" people have difficulty living normal lives because they are incapable of seeing/thinking about the world in a normal way.winber1 wrote:
i'd like to think of myself as somewhat talented in intellect, or at least lucky to not be shitfaced retarded. Most of school I would never study, or at most 1-2 hour for only things like final exams at the end of a semester, yet although other kids spend more than 3 or more times the amount of time i spend studying, they often still get worse grades and worse gpa. that's also one of the only reasons i was able to balance my somewhat busy schedule while still playing league errday bruh. Hell, I even probably paid less attention in class, but I just retained information more easily. I really don't think you can just chalk that up to hard work.
not really. I didn't really want to go into this topic since there is not quantitative evidence truly, but what do you even quantify as "a very mathematical way?" I'd say doing basic math and solving basic algebraic equations for work or just curiosity isn't not really that mathematical, but that's what most people would do. And to be fair, a good portion of mathematically inclined people (asians lul) are not thinking about group theory or matrix transformations or some crap like that, they only use it when they need to. Otherwise, they'd only think about more complex problems if that is their job. Every once in a while people will just solve problems for fun or do it to help someone. I know most of my friends haven't even taken a math class in 4 to 5 years and only use basic math skills nowadays, but would be bounds better at relearning calculus than most people our age (who also have not taken or done advanced math in years). This is all just hypothesizing and no evidence, but that's all I have for that.chainpullz wrote:
People who are good at math are good at math because they see and think about everything in the world in a very mathematical way.
You don't get to decide what matters to anyone but yourself, don't be so presumptuous.F1r3tar wrote:
Being good at osu! doesn't mean much in real life, so it doesn't matter.
Also, the fact that you're judging someone's skill by their play count is pretty sad.
Since when did I say my words are fact?Railey2 wrote:
You don't get to decide what matters to anyone but yourself, don't be so presumptuous.
You said that "it doesn't matter" as a factual statement.F1r3tar wrote:
Since when did I say my words are fact?Railey2 wrote:
You don't get to decide what matters to anyone but yourself, don't be so presumptuous.
But honestly, when is osu! going to help you in real life? You don't need to pour an insane amount of dedication and time into something that you won't be using in the future. I'm not saying you can't if that's how you feel, but don't feel obligated to get good at something that ultimately won't help you.
Some people are talented, others aren't. The point of this thread is giving people a heuristic to estimate how talented they are. This will prevent untalented people from pouring a huge amount of time into a game to reach a goal that was unobtainable to begin with. Nobody should have to delude themselves into thinking that they can reach the top when it is not possible.Rhonin wrote:
you can't just call people "untalented" you inconsiderate douche.
Yes, really. Your playcount reflects to a certain extent how much you play this game. Hitcount is even better. If you take the average of 100 people around your rank and compare yourself to that average, all the points you mentioned become statistical background noise. To account for the inaccuracy of the method you can only consider your result as significant when it is either far lower or far higher than the average. And there you go, you have a (somewhat) reliable method for estimating how talented you are at osu, granted that you don't do stuff like playing for SS or only playing Easy maps for #1's on the leaderboards, which would really skew the results.NixXSkate wrote:
Judging people based on playcount or hitcount? Really?
1) stop your semantic nitpicking. You know exactly what I mean by pro, and so does everyone elseB1oody wrote:
I find your post hilarious. By definition you can never become a pro at osu! because you can't make a living out of it (even if you are top 5 material). You try to give your own definition to talent by using a flawed metric and buzzwords such as "untalented bracket". It may be true that people have a different skill ceiling but most players will never even come close to it.
No, not really. Many players still don't try to improve physical skill every play, many players play offline or primarily unranked maps, many players may be focusing on becoming well rounded rather than a specific specialty, and many players may not be focusing on pp nearly as much as the others. There are many top players that are only talented in one or two aspects of osu!. As I said before, some talents may be held back, there have been many times where players that consistently play just seemed to shoot up once they weren't held back from a weakness, like a speed demon that learned how to aim fast or vise-versa.Railey2 wrote:
Yes, really. Your playcount reflects to a certain extent how much you play this game. Hitcount is even better. If you take the average of 100 people around your rank and compare yourself to that average, all the points you mentioned become statistical background noise.NixXSkate wrote:
Judging people based on playcount or hitcount? Really?
KukiMonster wrote:
Not unless you're a partnered Twitch streamer.B1oody wrote:
By definition you can never become a pro at osu! because you can't make a living out of it
Hug me CXu <3CXu wrote:
The moment you made this thread is the moment you're not going to reach the top.
Vayentha wrote:
I agree with NixXSkate. Playcount and stuff could be good information to take into account, but for that you'd need to remove of the playcount (for instance) all of the plays that did not have the endeavor to make you better. Look at me for instance, I have 34k playcount, yet, I spend what, a fifth of my play time playing easy maps to take breaks from tryharding. A fifth of 34k would be 6800, which is a lot of difference. Now, let's imagine that I've been playing for much more time and that I have 200.000 playcount, and that I would always have played easy maps. A fifth of it would be 40k playcount, which is a big lot.
On the other hand, I've noticed that people that play less than me (like, maybe twice or thrice a week, while I'm playing six days out of seven) improve faster playcount-wise, but slower time-wise (one of my friends, for instance, has 2600pp, when I had as much as him, my playcount was twice as high, yet, I went to this amount of pp way faster than he did, he attained this amount in one year and a half while I atteined it in just one year).
Besides, retrying makes a lot of difference playcount wise, as it increases a lot faster, while the total hits doesn't increase as fast.
Railey, let's take you and I as exemple, if you go to my profile, you'll notice that we begun playing (or at least created our accounts) the exact same day.
In those 21 months, my playcount went all the way up to 34k. Yours is 41.5k. Yet I have 110 hours of playcount more than you. I also have half as much total hits as you. My max combo is 3670 while your is 1330.
For all of this I get to the conclusion that you retry a lot more than I do (and I did retry a lot before deciding to get consistent, if I had never retried, maybe I would be at around 25k playcount or something like that).
If we take only playcount and total hits into account, it would seem like you have more talent than me, but if you take into account that a big part of my total hits comes from not retrying, and that another significant part of them comes from playing piss easy maps, we can't say which one of us is the most talented. Or at least I cannot, and I probably couldn't even though if I knew if you were not retrying like me or playing maps just for fun and not for improvement like I do.
I think that playcount, total hits, and play time are influenced by too much variables to discern them from one another, which would make any judgment based on them dubious.
Also, but this is 'total' intuition from my part (which means that it's totally up to you to believe any of it), I looked at your profile and I think that you tend be pessimistic, which could lead you to think that certains things that look impossible indeed are, while they not necessarily are.
[Taiga] wrote:
Just few words:
There are 2 meaning of "being pro":
1) You are pro because you are in top100 and you can play whatever majority of players cannot due having talent for "everything"
but
2) You can be pro in one thing which separates you from majority at your own rank range - for example:
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/-GN
Is not in top100, yet holds biggest amount of most crazy plays which nobody in top100 can probably do (or can do with great effort and sacrifice). One of examples of this scores which i think everyone in top100 tried and failed:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/155691 - HDHR FC.
Not mention amount of TAG4 Solo FC scores.
Next example:
If you are let's say in top5000 but your control and reading is focused into fast complex patterns and you can without much problems FC gimmick maps, anytime when someone throw at you another camellia map you just laugh at it and do another 200pp FC due this map not yelding much of it - you can consider youself as a pro in this one thing - due probably 99% of players around you will strugle hard in this maps.
This kind of examples are a lot and honestly - who gives a fuck, really, top100, top50, top1.... who gives a fuck if you actually can play maps what you enjoy, as far as people produce them and you find new one even unranked.
For me Railey2 post sounds like crying "i cannot be good", dunno if it's just me but really, demotivating people from work to progress and enjoy higher variety of fun maps is just retarded.
Fuck this thread and OP for bunch of salt, my room looks like ocean after reading this, bye.
@Edit: I also put here Thelewa as someone who worked extremely hard to be good and now it's one of best acc players in this game. As he said - he is "untallented".
Really... if you think you cannot do something because you don't have talent - buy a rope and use it properly, here is tutorial:
Railey should do this right now since there is no hope for you bro, pls don't waste precious oxygene.
ok Mr.CXu I want you to write a PM to Cr1mmy, telling him that he will catch up to your rank if he just worked a bit harder. Can you do that for me? I'm sure he will feel very encouraged.CXu wrote:
The moment you made this thread is the moment you're not going to reach the top.
I think you are missing the point.CXu wrote:
Yes because I'd want to do something someone making this thread tells me to do.