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Score V2; Poll

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119

What's your opinion on Score V2?

I don't like it; the current PP system is fine as it is.
1423
62.49%
I think it should be modified before it's released (post how you think it should be changed below)
353
15.50%
I like it; it should be implemented how it is now.
501
22.00%
Total votes: 2277
Topic Starter
B1rd
I thought I'd make this poll to see how many people actually do or don't like score V2. There are plenty of good debate threads, but it'd be useful to see the numbers of people who do or don't like it.

If you choose option 2 please post what you'd like to be changed about score V2 and how you'd like it implemented. Please don't use this thread for debating about Score V2 with other people, the other threads are for that.

Thank you.
bigfeh
I guess it's meh. Not a deal breaker but I don't think sliders should have the accuracy constraint.
winber1
the slider accuracy i think is completely fine. score cap really doesn't make sense to me, and idk really how spinners bonuses are going to work but that's also an awkward problem. As someone as told me, the taiko system has a max combo multiplier, and I think that works pretty well. The cap should be somewhat high though, probably be around 500 combo or so if you were to ask me specifically. that's just my opinion tho.
N0thingSpecial
is there an option called I don't care
Raniemi
I do think sliders should require accuracy but there are so many submitted scores without it already.. :(
GhostFrog
Make max score scale with number of objects or something. Also, the poll options are silly, considering that I really doubt this change is being made to fix pp.
Topic Starter
B1rd

N0thingSpecial wrote:

is there an option called I don't care
You choose that option by not posting in this thread.

winber1 wrote:

the slider accuracy i think is completely fine. score cap really doesn't make sense to me, and idk really how spinners bonuses are going to work but that's also an awkward problem. As someone as told me, the taiko system has a max combo multiplier, and I think that works pretty well. The cap should be somewhat high though, probably be around 500 combo or so if you were to ask me specifically. that's just my opinion tho.
The only option that I'd wouldn't oppose is if sliders got their own separate OD rating, with the option of having slider OD off. That way, there is is no tampering with old maps/scores and mappers have more options available to them rather than less.

I don't like the change to score; full combos are an integral part of this game. There are plenty of other games that are acc based rather than combo based including Hexis; combo based scores are the thing I like about osu!, it makes FCing maps a mental challenge. And I really hate how it would destroy score farming, I love ranked score because I can work towards a goal by playing relaxing maps that I enjoy. Score V2 would destroy that.
GhostFrog

B1rd wrote:

I don't like the change to score; full combos are an integral part of this game. There are plenty of other games that are acc based rather than combo based including Hexis; combo based scores are the thing I like about osu!, it makes FCing maps a mental challenge. And I really hate how it would destroy score farming, I love ranked score because I can work towards a goal by playing relaxing maps that I enjoy. Score V2 would destroy that.
I think (and correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't actually ever played with score v2) that the ~70% of your score with score v2 that's combo-based scales quadratically just like it does now. You lose more points in score v2 for small changes in accuracy, especially if the acc loss comes near the start of a long combo, but FC still seems pretty rewarding to me. The ranked score thing is a shame though...
winber1

B1rd wrote:

The only option that I'd wouldn't oppose is if sliders got their own separate OD rating, with the option of having slider OD off. That way, there is is no tampering with old maps/scores and mappers have more options available to them rather than less.

I don't like the change to score; full combos are an integral part of this game. There are plenty of other games that are acc based rather than combo based including Hexis; combo based scores are the thing I like about osu!, it makes FCing maps a mental challenge. And I really hate how it would destroy score farming, I love ranked score because I can work towards a goal by playing relaxing maps that I enjoy. Score V2 would destroy that.
If anything, they could just use score v2 for like competitions as I personally believe that score v1 is a bad metric for skill/competition. However, I do think it's been part of the culture/identity of osu since forever, and I'd hate to see it disappear completely.

I also am not a huge fan of just adding OD to sliders. It just doesn't feel right. I feel it's similar reasoning as to why variable approach rate wasn't appealing to many. Although not as noticeable as approach rate, it's just really awkward to have separate accuracy margins for different notes, as it is to have variable approach rate for different sections.

There isn't really an in between point imo. Either you give sliders an accuracy margin in the beginning or don't do it at all. Since I don't really think it matters too much if they do have an accuracy margin, then it's whatever. Others may disagree, but that's just my opinion.
Mahogany
I really don't give a shit about the PP system, tbh, and don't think that needs to be considered at all.

Score V2 makes the game much less fun to play for me. I hate it. Sliders feel awful to play. It doesn't need to be changed. Especially since one of the main factors, the 1m score cap, makes absolutely no sense in the singleplayer game, and makes me think this change is just being shoehorned in to make it more of a multiplayer game, which makes no sense to me.
I Give Up
I doubt this poll would even have any weight in the final decision.
Mahogany
Of course not, peppy doesn't give a shit about what the community thinks.
See this poll: t/352460
Created by peppy himself, he chose the option that was least voted for!
Risa

Mahogany wrote:

Of course not, peppy doesn't give a shit about what the community thinks.
See this poll: t/352460
Created by peppy himself, he chose the option that was least voted for!
Actually he implemented the option that was the most voted for there, but it's a different story for other stuffs...

On topic : I'm fine with scorev2 but not with the score cap
Mahogany

Ezonie wrote:

Actually he implemented the option that was the most voted for there, but it's a different story for other stuffs...
I'm sorry, but tell me what happens to the qualified scoreboards when they get ranked? They certainly don't get kept.
Risa
I thought the first option meant that qualified maps do not have a scoreboard totally; just like unranked maps?

Well tbh i dont really care about that so yea
CelegaS
the problem is, there is some mapping style will be gone because they used the lack of accuracy on slider to do some special pattern that will be fucked up with scoreV2 and these pattern will just destroy accuracy because they have shit timing but good style.
chainpullz
I like it from a play perspective but not from a what it will probably do to mapping perspective. I think toy's response on his ask.fm does an adequate job or describing my position so instead of typing out 80% of what he said just gonna post the link instead:
https://ask.fm/Toybickler/answers/136307374973

Anyone who says that "people are only opposed to it because they don't want to acc sliders" is fucking retarded though.
Ted_the_red
Overall I like scorev2, but I'm not fond of the score cap of 1,000,000 mainly because I farm ranked score, so I may be a little biased. However, I think from a game play perspective capped score makes sense because it's a whole lot easier to compare scores from different maps.
vsprite
mad cus bad

who gives a fuck if the mapping style changes, some of these autistic mappers have already tainted the game with terrible maps
vsprite
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything." ~George Bernard Shaw
winber1

vsprite wrote:

"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything." ~George Bernard Shaw
yes, but change does not always mean progress.
Endaris

GhostFrog wrote:

Make max score scale with number of objects or something. Also, the poll options are silly, considering that I really doubt this change is being made to fix pp.
B1rd likes to decide things through polls.
vsprite

winber1 wrote:

vsprite wrote:

"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything." ~George Bernard Shaw
yes, but change does not always mean progress.
/s
I Give Up
Like whos bright idea was it to ban marijuana? :(
7ambda
Just remove the score cap, and have your score go down every time your acc drops.
Mofu kun
Personally, i currently believe that peppy shouldn't change what isn't broken.

Now, whether it is 'broken' or not is up for a lot of debate.
deletemyaccount
The main issue that I (and I assume most people) have with these changes is how they limit mapping and creativity.

From a gameplay perspective however, doesn't adding higher OD to sliders just increase the skill ceiling of the game? This doesn't really seem like a really bad thing tbh. As for score v2, as long as tweaks are made in order to weight aim and accuracy proportionately, I don't really see an issue either. Don't get me wrong, score v2 WILL change the game significantly. Regardless, most people will get used to it after a while.

But... why?

Why make these changes now?

That's my main issue with score v2 really. The game is already established and the community has already ingrained their own attitude towards mapping and gameplay. It honestly does seem quite short sighted to me that these changes are being made without much dialogue from the mapping community; the people who actually produce the fuel for which osu! runs on.
N0thing
If you ask me: I don't even really understand it. 1 mil score cap? Why the hell should we restrict the amount of points avaible at the end? Who the hell would then play marathons if you can max get 1 mil score (just like in any other map) And also to the 70% combo /10 + something and 30% acc
May I ask, why you need to put accuracy in it again? After all: Accuracy is already implemented. if you hit a circle and get 300 points, then you get 300 points. No need to get 300 points (example) twice.
honestly: Yes, the pp system needs to be changed. But not into something worser which includes options which don't make any sense.

And regarding the sliders: I'm finewith it. But what I'm not fine with is that you then will never know when you actually did sliderbreak just by looking. I tend to ignore the sliderbreaks (I think this is also removeable with skin). But with this I need to put it in. And I just hate that sound. Maybe change colors for the sliderbreak 100?

As I said, I don't really understand it, else I wouldn't write that confusing.

E:to points: and where would be cookiezi for example after he S'd Everything will Freeze. it were a whopping 40 mil or above. if you can then only get 1 mil, then the mappers will only focus on 1 mil. and that sucks, since some people like long maps. Generally are long maps the best way to improve stamina

E: thought that pp system would change accordingly to Score V2. it's not, so... score system is something in which I think it doesn't need to be changed. I never thought about it before, but score is Combo x Circle and add everything together, isn't it? if so, then it's fine. Why do you need to make it complicated
-Makishima S-
Just my curiosity - o!mania overjoy marathons are also capped in 1kk score like iirc other maps?
Pituophis
I agree with it minus the score cap. Score cap is dumb
Potsu
I think people are misinterpreting the score cap.

The cap is 1mm (million). That means every single song played 100% perfectly will give you a score of 1mm (plus modifiers, plus spinner score).

Every song played perfectly with one note missed at the start will give you less than 1mil (if no mods or spinners) but depending on the amount of notes in the song the difference between the score and 1mm will be larger or smaller. Songs with a lot of notes will have a higher score than songs with fewer notes for example.

Full combo still matters since as you go up in combo each note hit is worth more than the last in a quadratically increasing manner just that the amount of score you get is normalized to 70% of 1million for a full combo.

If you played a marathon song today that has 2000 notes your score would be pretty gigantic. The only difference the score cap does is normalize the maximum score to 1mm. Due to the weighting of combo (70% of score) and acc (30% of score) you can't directly compare scorev1 to scorev2. You can make scenarios where you could compare them though. If (pretend fail is off but no 0.5 modifier to score) you had a long map with 1000 notes and compared the ratio (low score divided by high score) of a 100% score to a 100% score that missed the first 50% of the notes, the scorev1 and scorev2 ratios would be the same minus some rounding error.

I wouldn't say the score is capped to 1 million but rather that your final score is normalized to 1 million. Relatively and proprotionally unnormalized vs normalized numbers remain the same.


Let me know if I've misinterpreted the scoring system though I only gave it a cursory read from the first post here (t/375428)
Mahogany
Yeah but a change to a scoring system like that makes no sense in singleplayer
Potsu
Yeah changing the score system at this point in time with no way to accurately convert existing scores seems pretty useless/controversial.
Ignitorex
Please just keep the game the way it is :/. There is no point AT ALL in fixing something that isn't broke. People have worked so hard to get all the scores they have got up to this point and love the game the way it is. If everything changed this much a lot of people might quit and never come back , would that be good for the game? no it would not........
TakuMii

Ignitorex wrote:

There is no point AT ALL in fixing something that isn't broke.
On the contrary. It's been broken since the beginning (osu! was based off of a non-competitive portable rhythm game, after all); the biggest reason a Score V2 hasn't happened yet is because a score wipe would devastate the community. But with osu!next just around the corner, it makes at least some sense for the developer(s) to think about revamping the game's fundamentals again, however controversial it may seem.

---

As for the current state of Score V2 itself, I do think it might need a bit more thought in terms of its implementation. I'm all for the addition of accuracy-based sliders into the game and the higher skill ceiling it will provide (despite how much of an influence the current system's flaws have made on modern mapping styles), but there has to be a better way to implement it instead of the current plan of only applying it to new maps.

In my opinion, I think the implementation should be something like the Beatmania IIDX's Expert-Score system (in that the old score system stays in the game as a secondary display despite having no direct competitive relevance), while older scores should have their "Score V2" value calculated based on the lowest possible value given the limited amount of information that is still saved on the server (or better yet, have them recalculated using a replay if available). That way, older scores aren't worthless, Ranked Score players can still be happy with their Score V1 metric, and PP players are encouraged to improve their old achievements if they want them to stay relevant. From my perspective, everyone wins.

And seeing as plenty of other rhythm games already have some sort of scorecap implemented already, I wouldn't be totally against that idea. But I think the idea would be more appealing to people if it was based off of hitobject count rather than a flat cap of 10 million. Just my two cents.
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