omg shiirn is back
SPOILER
21:37 Kyubey: probably watching the testplay can help you to understand something
21:37 Kyubey: but i want to warn you that i'm really not warmed up now so i'll fail patterns
21:37 Shiirn: i've seen lots of people playtest it
21:37 Kyubey: ah
21:37 Kyubey: btw
21:37 Kyubey: offset -7 feels MUCH better
21:37 Kyubey: (i'm playing with it rn)
21:37 Shiirn: mmm
21:37 Shiirn: i've heard whispers to that extent
21:43 Kyubey: modding time
21:43 Shiirn: aye
21:44 Kyubey: first pattern stuff then general stuff
21:44 Shiirn: i just want to confirm
21:44 Shiirn: you've read the beatmap desc, right?
21:44 Kyubey: i always try to keep mapper's style in mind
21:44 Shiirn: is that a yes?
21:45 Kyubey: yes
21:45 Shiirn: okay. then we're good
21:45 Kyubey: but i will mention few things anyway because these were really gimmick
21:45 Kyubey: just in case if you decide to agree
21:45 Shiirn: Of course, I understand
21:46 Shiirn: You'll find me a lot more agreeable and engaging during the modding process than a lot of mappers, i'm sure
21:47 Kyubey: 01:19:239 (5,8) - this overlap, i played this map few times and always was misreading (8), probably because it's covered with (5), so i'd like to see the more sliderbody here
21:48 Shiirn: Agh, yeah, I've had that mentioned once or twice. It was originally almost completely under the body - you cans ee how it's curved?
21:48 Shiirn: because i angled it out to show more of the body
21:48 Kyubey: yes, but i still was misreading the head with tail
21:48 Shiirn: you think simply unstacking it and pushing it a bit to the left (and the right for the flipped pattern a bit later) would be better?
21:48 Kyubey: show me the example
21:49 Kyubey: probably you want to keep it consistent with 01:23:239 (5,8) - this
21:49 Shiirn: yeah that's what i mentioned the flipped pattern for
21:49 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/mqMvH/cfe9493cd9.jpg this is just moving it a bit and curving it a bit more to blanket (5)'s ending
21:49 Kyubey: (8) reads here better but it's because i missed previous one and knew the next thing will have that slider again
21:49 Kyubey: looks good
21:50 Shiirn: yeah
21:50 Shiirn: that's part of the problem with artistic maps
21:50 Shiirn: the first read is ass
21:50 Shiirn: did to both patterns
21:52 Kyubey: 02:03:322 (8,1) - this thing is pretty hard to follow
21:52 Kyubey: especially when things like this don't appear that often in the map
21:53 Kyubey: i can the see the shapes of streams and understand what you want to make there
21:53 Kyubey: but it playability terms it's uncomfortable, really
21:53 Shiirn: I could alternatively flip the 4,4 tream around and have it trace back
21:54 Kyubey: 02:11:322 (8,1) - almost same spacing but flow is smoother so it works much better
21:55 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/mqMVl/c97fbc6314.jpg e.g. for 2:03
21:55 Kyubey: yes, should be better
21:57 Kyubey: 02:19:072 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - uhh, it's pretty hard to control such a short things, if you make the flow 02:19:322 (4,1) - here smoother by moving 02:19:405 (1,2,3,4) - this left, it will be played better
21:58 Shiirn: I could move the 1,2,3,4s so that they're pointing at one another for better flow, although that seems to be what you're suggesting anyway
22:00 Kyubey: 02:28:239 (2,3) - was kinda uncomfortable for me too, i was distracted by stream near to (3) and it caused misreading. if you move that thing somewhere like http://kyubey.s-ul.eu/rFterhcE.png here, it will be more comfortable to read
22:00 Shiirn: (god this looks like a clusterfuck in the editor) http://puu.sh/mqNhX/c05db32f8a.jpg
22:00 Shiirn: mmm
22:01 Kyubey: lol, actually it looks cluster in the game too
22:01 Shiirn: 02:28:489 (3,4) - you mean these are the ones actually hard to read? true... i could move them out like you did
22:01 Kyubey: yep
22:01 Shiirn: almost identical to your puush
22:01 Kyubey: 02:40:655 (4,1) - following the flow after 02:40:405 (1,2,3,4) - this makes hard to hit that slider, so if you move it left a little, it will work better
22:02 Shiirn: I'll bring (1) down a bit (and bring (2) mirrored with it) to this http://puu.sh/mqNtn/8f3387cd56.jpg
22:03 Kyubey: good
22:05 Kyubey: 05:17:405 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - well...
22:05 Kyubey: it looks cool
22:05 Kyubey: but it's unplayable
22:06 Shiirn: I've actually not seen anyone but you have trouble on it. Most playtesters I've had loved that pattern
22:06 Kyubey:
22:06 Shiirn: But my pool of playtesters are a bit higher skill
22:06 Kyubey: probably because i'm using mouse and it's hard to have smooth movement on it
22:06 Shiirn: Axarious's thought on that stream was, and i quote, "fuck yes"
22:06 Shiirn: as he was playing
22:06 Shiirn: ah yes
22:06 Shiirn: that's it entirely
22:06 Shiirn: because of the momentum issues
22:06 Kyubey: well, axarious is #10 or something
22:06 Shiirn: like
22:07 Shiirn: this map is an artfully designed map more than a playable one
22:07 Shiirn: to bring it into my playability standards i had to lose a lot and the patterns often have jerky movements to connect the pretty looking patterns
22:07 Shiirn: this makes them hard to play with mouse because mouses weigh much more than pens and mouse players need to fight the movement momentum they have for a lot of the streams
22:08 Kyubey: i understand your point
22:08 Kyubey: thought for me it doesn't require such a difficulty peak there
22:08 Shiirn: well it's the second to last major piano roll of the map
22:08 Shiirn: 05:27:572 (5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - being the other one
22:09 Kyubey: this one is much easier in terms of movement
22:09 Shiirn: which forgoes a pretty pattern for more beat-focused spacign
22:09 Shiirn: this is the inconsistency thing that is unique to this map for me, it's focusing on different aspects of the same exact patterns of beats and instruments
22:10 Kyubey: 05:31:072 (3,3,4,5) - this thing is really unreadable
22:10 Shiirn: i don't normally do this kind of stuff but i was pretty introspective as this was mostly mapped while i was banned
22:10 Shiirn: mmm 345 can probably be curved outward i guess?
22:10 Kyubey: curved and unstack them more
22:10 Kyubey: because player expects 1/4 slider to be there as in previous patterns
22:10 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/mqO3j/bad7bd243f.jpg
22:11 Kyubey: and this one appears really confusing
22:11 Kyubey: looks more readable
22:11 Kyubey: though 05:31:739 (5,6) - this movement becomes awkward there
22:11 Shiirn: mhm
22:12 Shiirn: well the spacing is pretty low between 5,6 so i can probably drop 6 to the bottomside of the map
22:12 Kyubey: oke
22:12 Kyubey: thats all for pattern modding
22:12 Kyubey: now general stuff
22:12 Kyubey: hmm i wonder if we still use BMS as source
22:13 Shiirn: I'm not... FULLY aware of the full avenues of metadata setups right now
22:13 Kyubey: i'm checking last ranked bms maps
22:13 Shiirn: felys was originally a BMS track, and an album version was released much later (this one here)
22:13 Shiirn: as in
22:13 Shiirn: felys was originally a 2005 bms map
22:13 Shiirn: and album version was... 2008?
22:13 Shiirn: in the swell strings album
22:13 Shiirn: and axsword is an alternate name for onoken
22:13 Shiirn: so those are the tags
22:14 Kyubey: hmm seems like we are still using it as source
22:14 Kyubey: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/286458 though this map didn't have it
22:14 *Shiirn shrugs
22:14 Shiirn: i'm leaving this mostly up to you guys
22:15 Kyubey: 00:14:323 - this break
22:15 Shiirn: mm?
22:15 Kyubey: do you know that section-pass stuff appears with a loud sound?
22:15 Shiirn: Back in the day section-pass didn't follow volume settings. so if it does now, that's news to me.
22:15 Shiirn: so 5% it?
22:16 Kyubey: nono, it still doesn't have volume settings, but we can use silent section-pass and section-fail in the beatmap folder
22:16 Kyubey: lemme find right files
22:16 Shiirn: oh, okay.
22:16 Shiirn: cuz momentarily i was like
22:16 Shiirn: "HOLY SHIT PEPPY THAT'S NEATO"
22:16 Shiirn: and now i'm disappointed.
22:16 Kyubey: sorry
22:17 Shiirn:
22:17 Shiirn: gotta ruin my dream
22:17 Kyubey: http://kyubey.s-ul.eu/WbvgcPFG.rar
22:17 Shiirn: done
22:18 Kyubey: btw why "home" diffname?
22:19 Shiirn: I mapped it when I was banned. It has no significance except for that fact that I always planned for it to by my first rank/approved map IF I was ever unbanned
22:19 Shiirn: as such, i was "Home"
22:19 Kyubey: sounds deep
22:19 Kyubey: i accept that
22:19 Shiirn: well
22:19 Kyubey: thats all, update the map
22:19 Shiirn: it's not very deep, just kind of emo
22:19 Shiirn:
22:19 *Kyubey is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/871193 onoken - felys]
22:19 Kyubey: np for redl
22:20 Shiirn: aye
22:20 Shiirn: complete, redl
22:20 *Kyubey is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/85075 onoken - felys -long remix-]
22:20 Kyubey: that feel when long remix is shorter
22:20 Shiirn: yessir?
22:20 Shiirn: its the long remix of the bms track
22:20 Shiirn: LOL
22:20 Kyubey: seems like it
22:20 Shiirn: basically
22:20 Shiirn: its
22:21 Shiirn: onoken - felys (BMS rip) is around 1:40
22:21 Shiirn: onoken - felys -long remix- is 3:20
22:21 Shiirn: onoken - felys (album ver) is... well, this. bit under 6min
22:22 Kyubey: btw while your map is downloading (my internet is kinda slow)
22:22 *Kyubey is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/426550 onoken - Sagashi Mono(BMS Edit)]
22:22 Kyubey: you'll probably like it
22:22 *Shiirn shrugs
22:22 Shiirn: maybe maybe not
22:23 Shiirn: i'm not precisely crazy about felys itself, i just like it a lot, y'know
22:23 Kyubey: well, map is not that great but bms keysounds are great here
22:23 Shiirn: ah yes, bms keysounding, the one thing i will nver do purely out of fear
22:23 Shiirn: lel
21:37 Kyubey: but i want to warn you that i'm really not warmed up now so i'll fail patterns
21:37 Shiirn: i've seen lots of people playtest it
21:37 Kyubey: ah
21:37 Kyubey: btw
21:37 Kyubey: offset -7 feels MUCH better
21:37 Kyubey: (i'm playing with it rn)
21:37 Shiirn: mmm
21:37 Shiirn: i've heard whispers to that extent
21:43 Kyubey: modding time
21:43 Shiirn: aye
21:44 Kyubey: first pattern stuff then general stuff
21:44 Shiirn: i just want to confirm
21:44 Shiirn: you've read the beatmap desc, right?
21:44 Kyubey: i always try to keep mapper's style in mind
21:44 Shiirn: is that a yes?
21:45 Kyubey: yes
21:45 Shiirn: okay. then we're good
21:45 Kyubey: but i will mention few things anyway because these were really gimmick
21:45 Kyubey: just in case if you decide to agree
21:45 Shiirn: Of course, I understand
21:46 Shiirn: You'll find me a lot more agreeable and engaging during the modding process than a lot of mappers, i'm sure
21:47 Kyubey: 01:19:239 (5,8) - this overlap, i played this map few times and always was misreading (8), probably because it's covered with (5), so i'd like to see the more sliderbody here
21:48 Shiirn: Agh, yeah, I've had that mentioned once or twice. It was originally almost completely under the body - you cans ee how it's curved?
21:48 Shiirn: because i angled it out to show more of the body
21:48 Kyubey: yes, but i still was misreading the head with tail
21:48 Shiirn: you think simply unstacking it and pushing it a bit to the left (and the right for the flipped pattern a bit later) would be better?
21:48 Kyubey: show me the example
21:49 Kyubey: probably you want to keep it consistent with 01:23:239 (5,8) - this
21:49 Shiirn: yeah that's what i mentioned the flipped pattern for
21:49 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/mqMvH/cfe9493cd9.jpg this is just moving it a bit and curving it a bit more to blanket (5)'s ending
21:49 Kyubey: (8) reads here better but it's because i missed previous one and knew the next thing will have that slider again
21:49 Kyubey: looks good
21:50 Shiirn: yeah
21:50 Shiirn: that's part of the problem with artistic maps
21:50 Shiirn: the first read is ass
21:50 Shiirn: did to both patterns
21:52 Kyubey: 02:03:322 (8,1) - this thing is pretty hard to follow
21:52 Kyubey: especially when things like this don't appear that often in the map
21:53 Kyubey: i can the see the shapes of streams and understand what you want to make there
21:53 Kyubey: but it playability terms it's uncomfortable, really
21:53 Shiirn: I could alternatively flip the 4,4 tream around and have it trace back
21:54 Kyubey: 02:11:322 (8,1) - almost same spacing but flow is smoother so it works much better
21:55 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/mqMVl/c97fbc6314.jpg e.g. for 2:03
21:55 Kyubey: yes, should be better
21:57 Kyubey: 02:19:072 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - uhh, it's pretty hard to control such a short things, if you make the flow 02:19:322 (4,1) - here smoother by moving 02:19:405 (1,2,3,4) - this left, it will be played better
21:58 Shiirn: I could move the 1,2,3,4s so that they're pointing at one another for better flow, although that seems to be what you're suggesting anyway
22:00 Kyubey: 02:28:239 (2,3) - was kinda uncomfortable for me too, i was distracted by stream near to (3) and it caused misreading. if you move that thing somewhere like http://kyubey.s-ul.eu/rFterhcE.png here, it will be more comfortable to read
22:00 Shiirn: (god this looks like a clusterfuck in the editor) http://puu.sh/mqNhX/c05db32f8a.jpg
22:00 Shiirn: mmm
22:01 Kyubey: lol, actually it looks cluster in the game too
22:01 Shiirn: 02:28:489 (3,4) - you mean these are the ones actually hard to read? true... i could move them out like you did
22:01 Kyubey: yep
22:01 Shiirn: almost identical to your puush
22:01 Kyubey: 02:40:655 (4,1) - following the flow after 02:40:405 (1,2,3,4) - this makes hard to hit that slider, so if you move it left a little, it will work better
22:02 Shiirn: I'll bring (1) down a bit (and bring (2) mirrored with it) to this http://puu.sh/mqNtn/8f3387cd56.jpg
22:03 Kyubey: good
22:05 Kyubey: 05:17:405 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - well...
22:05 Kyubey: it looks cool
22:05 Kyubey: but it's unplayable
22:06 Shiirn: I've actually not seen anyone but you have trouble on it. Most playtesters I've had loved that pattern
22:06 Kyubey:
22:06 Shiirn: But my pool of playtesters are a bit higher skill
22:06 Kyubey: probably because i'm using mouse and it's hard to have smooth movement on it
22:06 Shiirn: Axarious's thought on that stream was, and i quote, "fuck yes"
22:06 Shiirn: as he was playing
22:06 Shiirn: ah yes
22:06 Shiirn: that's it entirely
22:06 Shiirn: because of the momentum issues
22:06 Kyubey: well, axarious is #10 or something
22:06 Shiirn: like
22:07 Shiirn: this map is an artfully designed map more than a playable one
22:07 Shiirn: to bring it into my playability standards i had to lose a lot and the patterns often have jerky movements to connect the pretty looking patterns
22:07 Shiirn: this makes them hard to play with mouse because mouses weigh much more than pens and mouse players need to fight the movement momentum they have for a lot of the streams
22:08 Kyubey: i understand your point
22:08 Kyubey: thought for me it doesn't require such a difficulty peak there
22:08 Shiirn: well it's the second to last major piano roll of the map
22:08 Shiirn: 05:27:572 (5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - being the other one
22:09 Kyubey: this one is much easier in terms of movement
22:09 Shiirn: which forgoes a pretty pattern for more beat-focused spacign
22:09 Shiirn: this is the inconsistency thing that is unique to this map for me, it's focusing on different aspects of the same exact patterns of beats and instruments
22:10 Kyubey: 05:31:072 (3,3,4,5) - this thing is really unreadable
22:10 Shiirn: i don't normally do this kind of stuff but i was pretty introspective as this was mostly mapped while i was banned
22:10 Shiirn: mmm 345 can probably be curved outward i guess?
22:10 Kyubey: curved and unstack them more
22:10 Kyubey: because player expects 1/4 slider to be there as in previous patterns
22:10 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/mqO3j/bad7bd243f.jpg
22:11 Kyubey: and this one appears really confusing
22:11 Kyubey: looks more readable
22:11 Kyubey: though 05:31:739 (5,6) - this movement becomes awkward there
22:11 Shiirn: mhm
22:12 Shiirn: well the spacing is pretty low between 5,6 so i can probably drop 6 to the bottomside of the map
22:12 Kyubey: oke
22:12 Kyubey: thats all for pattern modding
22:12 Kyubey: now general stuff
22:12 Kyubey: hmm i wonder if we still use BMS as source
22:13 Shiirn: I'm not... FULLY aware of the full avenues of metadata setups right now
22:13 Kyubey: i'm checking last ranked bms maps
22:13 Shiirn: felys was originally a BMS track, and an album version was released much later (this one here)
22:13 Shiirn: as in
22:13 Shiirn: felys was originally a 2005 bms map
22:13 Shiirn: and album version was... 2008?
22:13 Shiirn: in the swell strings album
22:13 Shiirn: and axsword is an alternate name for onoken
22:13 Shiirn: so those are the tags
22:14 Kyubey: hmm seems like we are still using it as source
22:14 Kyubey: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/286458 though this map didn't have it
22:14 *Shiirn shrugs
22:14 Shiirn: i'm leaving this mostly up to you guys
22:15 Kyubey: 00:14:323 - this break
22:15 Shiirn: mm?
22:15 Kyubey: do you know that section-pass stuff appears with a loud sound?
22:15 Shiirn: Back in the day section-pass didn't follow volume settings. so if it does now, that's news to me.
22:15 Shiirn: so 5% it?
22:16 Kyubey: nono, it still doesn't have volume settings, but we can use silent section-pass and section-fail in the beatmap folder
22:16 Kyubey: lemme find right files
22:16 Shiirn: oh, okay.
22:16 Shiirn: cuz momentarily i was like
22:16 Shiirn: "HOLY SHIT PEPPY THAT'S NEATO"
22:16 Shiirn: and now i'm disappointed.
22:16 Kyubey: sorry
22:17 Shiirn:
22:17 Shiirn: gotta ruin my dream
22:17 Kyubey: http://kyubey.s-ul.eu/WbvgcPFG.rar
22:17 Shiirn: done
22:18 Kyubey: btw why "home" diffname?
22:19 Shiirn: I mapped it when I was banned. It has no significance except for that fact that I always planned for it to by my first rank/approved map IF I was ever unbanned
22:19 Shiirn: as such, i was "Home"
22:19 Kyubey: sounds deep
22:19 Kyubey: i accept that
22:19 Shiirn: well
22:19 Kyubey: thats all, update the map
22:19 Shiirn: it's not very deep, just kind of emo
22:19 Shiirn:
22:19 *Kyubey is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/871193 onoken - felys]
22:19 Kyubey: np for redl
22:20 Shiirn: aye
22:20 Shiirn: complete, redl
22:20 *Kyubey is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/85075 onoken - felys -long remix-]
22:20 Kyubey: that feel when long remix is shorter
22:20 Shiirn: yessir?
22:20 Shiirn: its the long remix of the bms track
22:20 Shiirn: LOL
22:20 Kyubey: seems like it
22:20 Shiirn: basically
22:20 Shiirn: its
22:21 Shiirn: onoken - felys (BMS rip) is around 1:40
22:21 Shiirn: onoken - felys -long remix- is 3:20
22:21 Shiirn: onoken - felys (album ver) is... well, this. bit under 6min
22:22 Kyubey: btw while your map is downloading (my internet is kinda slow)
22:22 *Kyubey is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/426550 onoken - Sagashi Mono(BMS Edit)]
22:22 Kyubey: you'll probably like it
22:22 *Shiirn shrugs
22:22 Shiirn: maybe maybe not
22:23 Shiirn: i'm not precisely crazy about felys itself, i just like it a lot, y'know
22:23 Kyubey: well, map is not that great but bms keysounds are great here
22:23 Shiirn: ah yes, bms keysounding, the one thing i will nver do purely out of fear
22:23 Shiirn: lel