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MitiS - 1.16.2016

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Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
placeholder!!!

I have to agree with Krfawy here.

About the blankets
00:26:544 (2,3) - Without using AR/just eyeballing. Takes like 5 seconds.

Also, about hitsound volume, theyre indeed really low. I wouldn't say the whole section needs an increase in hitsound volume but some parts could use a volume increase because they aren't immediately noticeable for me :P. Basically I shouldn't have to open your map up in editor and go over any section in order to hear the hitsound. They should be clearly audible from game.

00:10:607 -
00:18:107 -
01:18:107 - Were the ones i noted anyways.



Also, what's with the difficulty settings on Voli's Medium. CS size plays an important role in determining how difficult a map will be. A change from CS 3 to CS 5 may not be much for experienced players, but it's a huge jump for the playerbase that this set is aimed at. CS is a design choice, and people usually decide on that right when they map, but this is a poor choice imo, sry Voli :P.
ac8129464363
1,560 posts
Joined October 2013
ac8129464363
who says that they will absolutely look better as blankets? that's your opinion, they don't even seem to have been intended to be blankets :o

also I play on 50% master volume w/ 18% volume in windows and all of the hitsounds sound perfectly clear to me, even suiting the calm atmosphere of the song. just throwing my thoughts out there.
ZiRoX
Elite Mapper
1,019 posts
Joined November 2009
ZiRoX

Monstrata wrote:

00:26:544 (2,3) - Without using AR/just eyeballing. Takes like 5 seconds.

From an outsider to standard mapping, that looks pretty irrelevant.
Hula
581 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
Hula
Wafu, I didn't want/need anymore mods, this has been modded by many people now, especially consider it's a ENN set. So I'm not gonna wait on a placeholder which was posted whilst Okoratu was half way through modding for the rank, why would I do that? I had been spamming this set on modhelp and modreqs since I submitted it over 2 weeks ago every day, that's how i got BNs and mods :). I'm not obliged to wait for every person in osu to mod my map.

The CS thing is probably very nice for less skilled players to be able to enjoy aiming whilst also achieving, Voli had a few guys who were like ~400k in rank and they didn't struggle with the size, so it's a good map for them to enjoy, it's interesting, i like it cos it's interesting.

The volumes are more than fine, I was annoyed that the volume % was so low whilst I was mapping, but I don't want them overwhelming the music, I like my hitsounds, so they got some attention.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
I was referring to

Yuii- wrote:

1) At this level of SV speed it's almost impossible to create such perfect blankets. Please, understand that.
with my comment about blankets. Nothing to do with blankets being higher quality than not blanketting xD. Just showing its very possible to create blankets and very easy to accomplish anyways.
Yuii-
2,503 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-
The difference is literally nule, what okay.
Voli
811 posts
Joined April 2013
Voli
Just popping in to say the CS isn't a problem in my diff - it is designed with the CS in mind, fits well with the minimalistic nature of the song, and both the incredibly low bpm and the way I mapped the difficulty should warrant more than enough time for beginners to have a steady aim. I checked the replays and seems like people 400~500k are already passing it with DT. Also the pass rate of my difficulty is 38% right now, nicely in between the 60% on easy and the 15% on the hardest diff. I'm not saying these are absolute or 100% accurate statistics, but they do give us information about the spread.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu

Hula wrote:

Wafu, I didn't want/need anymore mods, this has been modded by many people now, especially consider it's a ENN set. So I'm not gonna wait on a placeholder which was posted whilst Okoratu was half way through modding for the rank, why would I do that? I had been spamming this set on modhelp and modreqs since I submitted it over 2 weeks ago every day, that's how i got BNs and mods :). I'm not obliged to wait for every person in osu to mod my map.
It's not like you don't want or need mods. If you get 12SP, it doesn't make further modding any worse or any useless. You are just spitting into modder's face. If you don't want anyone else to touch your map, don't take it on qualification or learn to accept the fact that anyone is eligible to mod. Even if you got 100 mods before Okoratu's qualification, you'd be obligate to answer them. It's not about speed or how many mods come. If you didn't want to be 'unfair' to Oko, because he was already modding it, how could you be 'unfair' to me completely denying me to say a word?
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
diraimur

Monstrata wrote:

Also, what's with the difficulty settings on Voli's Medium. CS size plays an important role in determining how difficult a map will be. A change from CS 3 to CS 5 may not be much for experienced players, but it's a huge jump for the playerbase that this set is aimed at. CS is a design choice, and people usually decide on that right when they map, but this is a poor choice imo, sry Voli :P.
Actually, no. CS have nothing to do with difficulty alone. Its more about [SV / HitObjectRadius] (or something close to that, I'm not so sure atm). THAT is what determinates how hard a map will be.
Faster SV, harder map will be considering CS is same. Higher CS, harder map will be considering SV is same.

Lets check some random recently ranked map.
Looks fine doesn't it? CS3 -> CS3.5. (40,98 -> 38,74)
Now lets check SV.
0.6 -> 1.1. Wow. Thats quite huge increasement, isn't it? Almost as twice as fast.
Lets use our formula now:
60 / 40,98 = 1,46~ for Easy
110 / 38,74 = 2,84~ for Normal
Normal is roughly about 95% harder than Easy.

Lets check this set:
CS3 -> CS5 (40,98 -> 32,01)
SV 1,3 -> 1,5
Lets use the formula again for this set:
130 / 40,98 = 3,17~ for Easy
150 / 32,01 = 4,69~ for Normal.
Normal is only about 48% harder than Easy.

I don't see any issue, really.
HappyRocket88
4,321 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
Dirai, the map you referred isn't "recent". It was ranked 5 months ago.
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
diraimur

HappyRocket88 wrote:

Dirai, the map you referred isn't "recent". It was ranked 5 months ago.
By "recent" I mean a map that has been ranked before ranking criteria changed, which I highly doubt had a change, or at least something about this case.

If there was please tell me so.

Also, 4. Not 5.
Last edited by diraimur , edited 1 time in total.
Hula
581 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
Hula

Wafu wrote:

Hula wrote:

Wafu, I didn't want/need anymore mods, this has been modded by many people now, especially consider it's a ENN set. So I'm not gonna wait on a placeholder which was posted whilst Okoratu was half way through modding for the rank, why would I do that? I had been spamming this set on modhelp and modreqs since I submitted it over 2 weeks ago every day, that's how i got BNs and mods :). I'm not obliged to wait for every person in osu to mod my map.
It's not like you don't want or need mods. If you get 12SP, it doesn't make further modding any worse or any useless. You are just spitting into modder's face. If you don't want anyone else to touch your map, don't take it on qualification or learn to accept the fact that anyone is eligible to mod. Even if you got 100 mods before Okoratu's qualification, you'd be obligate to answer them. It's not about speed or how many mods come. If you didn't want to be 'unfair' to Oko, because he was already modding it, how could you be 'unfair' to me completely denying me to say a word?
I didn't ask you to mod the set? Oko was gonna be my ranking BN of the set for about 2 or 3 days already, what if I went around on all the sets which are bubbled and put a placeholder on all of them? I had 7 mods already, not including some random irc stuff with people and also Oko going over a few things, I think that's plenty.

Also, think like this, Oko is half way through ranking my set, I see you placed a placeholder in that time, last 5 mins or whatever, why on God's earth would I stop Oko, one of those rare BNs nowadays from ranking my set? I'd have to be stupid to pass up the opportunity.

Basically dude, stop making a drama over your placeholder shit on my thread, the post count on here is getting ridiculous and is beyond unnecessary.
Timorisu
771 posts
Joined November 2012
Timorisu
Placeholders guarantee nothing, skipping a mod should not be a guaranteed unrank
The kbps does not increase filesize by that much
That sliders in the kiai are perfectly audible
That other slider in the Normal diff does not look like female genitalia (u ever seen a pussy son?)
Quit complaining holy fuck
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Wafu, could you please stop that?

If you're too late to mod the mapset before it gets qualified then you're too late. Stop complaining about pointless things which doesn't exist. You're free to mod and help now if there are issues with the mapset but a "Placeholder post" is nothing a mapper needs to follow or wait for. There is no reason to keep this nonsense here.

Thanks.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
"WE HAVE TO REDUCE FILE SIZE ON A 3.4 MB MP3" - Wafu 2016.

Like I think the biggest thing you have to realize about being a BN is that you have to pick and choose your battles, and not get angrily butthurt over minute things. I've been mod-sniped PLENTY of times, sometimes WHILE I'm modding a map. I feel like you just literally just TRIED to find something that "could be" unrankable, when in actuality I'm sure that 0% of people really have strong feelings about this. There are more important things to rant about. Especially since this is the ONLY thing you've commented about on the map.

Also if you think 17 days is a speedrank then oh boy have I got some BN circlejerks to introduce you to. Especially since you're only getting mad about "omg speedranking" because YOU didn't mod it, lol. Like bahahhaha if it was ranked that day by you it would have literally been the same thing.

Additionally, I have been told many times that it is the responsibility of the MAPPER to find BNs to rank the map. While it is nice for BNs to do random checks (a practice that I think SHOULD be done by every BN, especially on bubbled maps), it is not a "ok stop trying to find people, I'm here", especially since it seems that the mapper had ALREADY asked Okoratu for a mod previously. Want to do more random checks? there's a whole slew of bubbled maps in Pending right now that don't have any competition waiting, and would verily much appreciate your assistance.

Focus your energy on the right things.
gracefu
80 posts
Joined June 2014
gracefu
The song isn't super long, there's no video, the file size is already pretty small. There's no *need* to dq this. Please let the dream live...

Also I play osu with laptop speakers. I don't even give a shit about audio quality :^)
I Must Decrease
908 posts
Joined June 2013
I Must Decrease
I disagree, Wafu is clearly correct here. If a mapset does not meet a rule in the RC it must be DQ'd. Just because you wanted to qualify it on a special date or desired something abnormal doesn't mean that your demands should be met. If there was an extraneous hitsound file this same issue would still apply, because it's a rule.

Not only that but he still has the right to mod a map while it's qualified. The whole purpose of the qualified section is to promote an increase in a beatmap's quality. If he has legitimate concerns this mapset should be DQ'd so they can be properly addressed instead of rushed for your "le ranked at same day as title" meme.
Last edited by I Must Decrease , edited 1 time in total.
gracefu
80 posts
Joined June 2014
gracefu
I disagree, Wafu is not "correct". The mapset doesn't actually break any rules in the RC. You *could* tighten the rules a little, but it doesn't *technically* break any rules (at least regarding the audio quality). Especially with such a hype rank date, it'd be a real real shame to DQ this because of something trivial and doesn't actually break any RC.

Xexxar pls not this map... not this map!
I Must Decrease
908 posts
Joined June 2013
I Must Decrease

gracefu wrote:

I disagree, Wafu is not "correct". The mapset doesn't actually break any rules in the RC. You *could* tighten the rules a little, but it doesn't *technically* break any rules (at least regarding the audio quality). Especially with such a hype rank date, it'd be a real real shame to DQ this because of something trivial and doesn't actually break any RC.

Xexxar pls not this map... not this map!
In terms of implication this is the exact same as having unused files in a mapset. It's a waste of space and extra bandwidth on the osu's server for every single person that downloads it. Seriously..? There is literally 0 reason to not change this outside of the "meme".
hehe
1,959 posts
Joined November 2012
hehe

Xexxar wrote:

In terms of implication this is the exact same as having unused files in a mapset. It's a waste of space and extra bandwidth on the osu's server for every single person that downloads it. Seriously..? There is literally 0 reason to not change this outside of the "meme".

No it is not the same. You're being unnecessarily pedantic about this, unused hitsounds are EASY to identify, EASY to remove. And the thing about mp3s is that while yes, its possible to improve it, the 'improvement' is really minimal, its already functional as it is. If you want to be so particular, you can say the same for backgrounds with bad compression, hitsounds with unnecessarily high bitrate as well as unnecessary green lines.

Yes, there is a line you have to draw but this is not crossing it whatsoever.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani

Xexxar wrote:

Not only that but he still has the right to mod a map while it's qualified. The whole purpose of the qualified section is to promote an increase in a beatmap's quality. If he has legitimate concerns this mapset should be DQ'd so they can be properly addressed instead of rushed for your "le ranked at same day as title" meme.
he has a right to mod it but so does everyone else and if someone else wants to rank it then they're allowed to do that just as much as Wafu has the right to mod it lol. If he has legitimate concerns, he should have brought it up beforehand, or mentioned it afterwards without being a child about it.

not commenting on the first part because everyone else already hit on that.
Voli
811 posts
Joined April 2013
Voli
I completely agree with Reditum here.

It really does seem like this is just witch-hunting for a ''potentially discussable'' issue so it can be DQ'd just because Wafu is angry about the placeholder thing.
I'm not against DQing a mapset if it warrants significant improvement or issues that actually matter and are of disadvantage to a majority of the players, but this is just way too overscrupulous and makes no sense whatsoever.

Can we now please stop this pointless charade already? It's just a repeating cycle that leads to nothing but drama.
Hula
581 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
Hula
Viva last dream!
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
What Wafu means is that even though the mp3 displays as 192 kbps in the file, it's actual quality is lower than a 128 kbps mp3 which is why he claims it's unrankable. Kind of a grey area though.
Timorisu
771 posts
Joined November 2012
Timorisu
If I can get 0 kpbs ranked then Hula can get 192 kpbs ranked. I really don't see the problem here. Besides, Hula said that this is the original mp3, as in there is no better quality or kbps available. So where IS the problem???
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu

Timorisu wrote:

If I can get 0 kpbs ranked then Hula can get 192 kpbs ranked. I really don't see the problem here. Besides, Hula said that this is the original mp3, as in there is no better quality or kbps available. So where IS the problem???
...It's so easy to lie and get people believe. I already proved why the quality is so terrible, I even posted it, so don't claim it's the highest quality available.
Stefan, if I, the one who provided constructive argument which is proven correct and breaking ranking criteria is supposed to shut up, then why do others have right to take mods AGAIN on personal level or eventually humiliate me by those "Placeholder - Wafu 2016" and other posts which are not related to the theme and are here just to f*** me off?
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
Well, this is more of a chain of mistakes from both "parties"
First of all, following a wise decision imo, Okoratu should have asked through PM to Wafu what were his intentions regarding the mapset and Wafu shouldn't have brought up such a minor matter up to this level (we are talking about 1 MB or even less, while there are thousands of maspets into the graveyard from various new mappers or just troll maps, so I can't really see a need to complain about bandwidth). The rest is just stubborness, yada yada, bla bla

Anyway, as said before, the thread is more than twice it should have been already... If QATs deem this as inappropriate, be it, but is there really any point in arguing so much...
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
We disqualify first, then we discuss.
To the mapset contributors, please go through everything that was mentioned carefully and elaborate wether it would be wise to make changes.
To Wafu, complaining about an "ignored placeholder" is pretty pointless, as Stefan already said, your mod after qualification is as impactful as a mod before qualification.
Hula
581 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
Hula
Well. Rip the deam.

What's there to discuss? We've fucking exhausted everything there is to discuss on this mapset already. Haven't you read the drama? I'm not changing anything, since i'm only doing stuff which has been done a million times over.

The effory people are putting into the discussion about this map is way too over the top. Other mapsets with more real issues about playability and stuff would benefit. This whole thing is just annoying. Especially wafu, don't want his mods, sorry mate.

Edit: i kindly now ask Wafu to stop posting on this thread since he's only feeding and enabling the drama. Immature basically.

I'll accept mods from other people
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav

Hula wrote:

Well. Rip the deam.

What's there to discuss? We've fucking exhausted everything there is to discuss on this mapset already. Haven't you read the drama? I'm not changing anything, since i'm only doing stuff which has been done a million times over. that doesn't make it more valid. The concern about mp3 quality is the most valid by now.

The effory people are putting into the discussion about this map is way too over the top. Sorry that people try to improve your work. My condolences.
Other mapsets with more real issues about playability and stuff would benefit. This whole thing is just annoying. get off your horse. your works are far from perfect.
Especially wafu, don't want his mods, sorry mate. arrogance is not helping you.

Edit: i kindly now ask Wafu to stop posting on this thread since he's only feeding and enabling the drama. Immature basically. your attitude isnt helping either

I'll accept mods from other people
Stop your shit or else I nuke this.
Dilectus
1,727 posts
Joined April 2014
Dilectus
Just decrease the quality to 128kbps in audacity. Takes 1 minute.

I could only decrease it to 2mb to keep the current audio ''quality''
http://puu.sh/mqrCk/296454a192.mp3
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa

Stefan wrote:

Wafu, could you please stop that?

If you're too late to mod the mapset before it gets qualified then you're too late. Stop complaining about pointless things which doesn't exist. You're free to mod and help now if there are issues with the mapset but a "Placeholder post" is nothing a mapper needs to follow or wait for. There is no reason to keep this nonsense here.

Thanks.
Why should it be illegal to mod a qualified map though? It's not ranked or anything.

Do note I haven't read the entire thread yet, this post just stood out to me.
Hula
581 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
Hula
Graving for a bit, since won't have all that much time till feb. But, constructive posts are encouraged and will like them in the mean time! I just won't reply very fast.

@loctav go for it if you really think it deserves it.
Birdy
5,720 posts
Joined April 2011
Birdy

Tess wrote:

Stefan wrote:

Wafu, could you please stop that?

If you're too late to mod the mapset before it gets qualified then you're too late. Stop complaining about pointless things which doesn't exist. You're free to mod and help now if there are issues with the mapset but a "Placeholder post" is nothing a mapper needs to follow or wait for. There is no reason to keep this nonsense here.

Thanks.
Why should it be illegal to mod a qualified map though? It's not ranked or anything.

Do note I haven't read the entire thread yet, this post just stood out to me.
Hi Tess.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav

Tess wrote:

Stefan wrote:

Wafu, could you please stop that?

If you're too late to mod the mapset before it gets qualified then you're too late. Stop complaining about pointless things which doesn't exist. You're free to mod and help now if there are issues with the mapset but a "Placeholder post" is nothing a mapper needs to follow or wait for. There is no reason to keep this nonsense here.

Thanks.
Why should it be illegal to mod a qualified map though? It's not ranked or anything.

Do note I haven't read the entire thread yet, this post just stood out to me.
the point was that he complained that he was stolen the opportunity to mod it PRIOR qualification. He just posted a placeholder and people went over that.
No one said that modding it past qualification is "illegal".
Jenny
2,200 posts
Joined November 2010
Jenny
DISCLAIMER: I didn't follow this drama, just looked through the thread since I was asked to give my opinion.



Sieg wrote:

Audio quality difference is not more than 3-5% which is negligible for this bitrate anyways (you won't be able to recognize it blindly). That's why I state again that quality all the same.
So.. the concern is that the .mp3 does not have the absolute maximum quality-to-filesize ratio that it could have, do I understand this correctly..?

Sure that's unfortunate, but like.. what's on the line? Less than a tenth of actual peak kHz range, and around one megabyte of space, and I don't think that's an absolutely huge concern considering that most people in this game use sound equipment for less than $20, and one megabyte is literally nothing in these days, so I really don't see much of a gain in forcing it - if you can provide a better .mp3 along with the new offset, sure, there's no reason to deny it, but from scrolling through this I haven't seen that?


Like, the difference in sound is both incredibly low-volume (-80 to -100 dB range) aswell as not all that noticeable in terms of pure kHz sound spectrum, so I really don't think anyone playing this game is missing out on anything, and one megabyte.. well we talked about that already.

tl;dr if you can provide a better .mp3 and a fitting offset for it, there's no issue with updating the map, but insisting on something you yourself can't deliver seems a bit.. y'know
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa

Loctav wrote:

Tess wrote:

Why should it be illegal to mod a qualified map though? It's not ranked or anything.

Do note I haven't read the entire thread yet, this post just stood out to me.
the point was that he complained that he was stolen the opportunity to mod it PRIOR qualification. He just posted a placeholder and people went over that.
No one said that modding it past qualification is "illegal".
Caught up to the thread now, and yeah, I agree. I do agree with Wafu's point but the placeholder thing seems rather silly.

Also @Jenny I'm fairly sure Wafu has the proper mp3 since he basically compared mp3s in some program. I'm not sure why he didn't provide it though, it should've just been changed and requalified. But I guess there was the thing with wanting to rank it on the 16th.

All in all this is a pretty huge thread for such a small deal, though I don't think the disqualification was bad. I've looked over the Eloquent diff and it could still use a few mods imo, but they're mostly stylistic and nazi minor things.

Hula, why can't you just take Wafu's mp3 and update the set and have it done with? I think you could've done that from the start. Just say "Well okay I didn't think it'd be a problem but sure. Since you have the mp3 just send it over and I'll update it when it's DQ'd."

It's not all that much effort to fix this issue, I feel.
Last edited by Nyxa , edited 1 time in total.
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu

Jenny wrote:

insisting on something you yourself can't deliver seems a bit.. y'know
I did provide it. It was just spammed. p/4803647
+Most people won't care doesn't make counter-argument on why was I wrong.
Jenny
2,200 posts
Joined November 2010
Jenny

Wafu wrote:

Jenny wrote:

insisting on something you yourself can't deliver seems a bit.. y'know
I did provide it. It was just spammed. p/4803647
+Most people won't care doesn't make counter-argument on why was I wrong.
I didn't say it makes your argument wrong somehow, it just means the impact is basically non-existent and there would be no reason to throw a major fit about it - if Hula literally has an .mp3 provided to him, I'd say he should just add it, but there's no reason to throw fits either way, since the impact is not going to be felt by literally anyone.

You're technically right, but the real-world impact is not going to actually be felt by anyone, that's my point.
No reason to throw a fit for either of you.
RVMathew
985 posts
Joined December 2013
RVMathew
Looking at what people are saying, the mp3 is supposedly bad. I assume it is because people are hearing some distortion around the 50-60 second mark.

If you listen to this: https://soundcloud.com/mitis/1162016a, you can hear some distortion as well. I assume that was intentionally done by the artist, or I could be wrong entirely.

With that said, I managed to find an mp3 that may probably be a little bit better (there may be no difference at all), and it is 1 mb less.

I tried it out and it does have an offset of 0. Therefore for every difficulty, go to the 'open .osu file in notepad', go to audio leadin and type 1500, so there is a delay of 1500ms before the song starts.

Here it is. http://puu.sh/mqsZM/ed40c0887a.mp3

If it does not help, then I am sorry.

Good luck on requalification. :)

RVMathew.

Edit: Seems Wafu and co. already posted it earlier. To Wafu and others, you have to be very anal to notice a difference, and even then the difference is very small that it is insignificant. If this was the only reason for disqualification, I am sorry but the disqualification was unwarranted.
Last edited by RVMathew , edited 1 time in total.
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