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Hagumi Nishizawa - My Hero! Up to you!

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Ciyus Miapah
well i think some of your arguments a bit subjective but okay i will try to explain what's going on in 2015 (and 2016) haha

Xexxar wrote:

Shiirn wrote:

Suggestions
Major suggestions
Unrankable issues

General
  1. Ya'll salty. DQs are for quality reasons and discussion. If you don't want your map to be DQ'd, make sure it's boring as shit or so objectively unassailable that people can't raise a finger against your logical arguements. this is not really shit at all, especially from jumpy maps as this map made well and i dont know why this thing can be serious problem in mapping world, there is such maps like this like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/255637, kinda common in 2015 mapping
  2. If people are raising a big stink about your map you are either doing something very, very right or very, very wrong. Try to make sure you're actually on the side of righteous logic. LOL, probably this thing is not a shit at all, logic says this map can be enjoyable and playable with different play style, kinda different spacing but it's okay for Extra higher diff, and this map still can be good to go and good to rank
  3. To save everyone's time and ability to suffer posts that are vaguely similar to massive walls, I will be going over these difficulties in reverse order!

My Hero!
  1. First and foremost, the question I have to ask is: Why do you have this difficulty? Your extra is perfectly functional and stresses the upper limits of what difficulty this song can bring. And above all, your extra is good. I don't see the point in having a special overkill difficulty that's basically the extra except with all the knobs turned up.
  2. CS4.2 is fine. Whatever. Do whatever.
  3. OD is seriously overkill, especially since the timing appears to be slightly off, and I am too lazy to make damn sure it's perfect.
  4. I think most of the problem people have is that your spacing is so high across the entire map that you lose focus on what parts of the song are actually powerful. If you're constantly jumping around nonstop at full power, you lose emphasis. You're not able to make certain notes strong or feel good to hit. While it certainly can be fun to have massive jumpspam maps, you can do this while still respecting the music. If you want to make a massive jump map, try mapping something a bit more intense? The mapping you've done here isn't objectively bad, you follow most musical cues accurately (outside of the terrible kiai), if over-zealously, it's just not a good fit for this song. I utilize other key aspects in this map to allow for players to experience feel rather than spacing. This is because, as this difficulty is intended to more proficient players, the spacing involved is nothing that warrants any increase in strain on the player through slow parts. This is the purpose of those anti jumps, break flow, this allows the players to feel more weight on the end of the sentences she sings (thats why every anti jump is in the location where the note that you stop on is the last syllable in the string of words and the note after is weak (aka no claps). This section is jumpy in the first place because you can clearly listen to the beat and notice the primordial 1/2 that CONSTANTLY is a part of this section. People may ask "Why is this section more circles than kiai?" but that is because the begining rhythmically has more 1/2 than the kiai. I utilize sliders and more powerful jumps in the kiai to highlight it's feel. and yeah well it's really fine than others map have some slightly GOD jumping power, while this map has really constant speed at jumping pattern, it's really okay when you doing this mapping style, this high spacing will adapted your device for doing some far jumps, and the emphasize on this song is really good compare with distance difference and patterning.
  5. Seriously, this kiai is fucked. It gets worse every time the stars burst out. The spacing is pretty much random and has no ties to musical cues whatsoever (the larger jumps aren't tied to hihats or snares or thumps at all, and the shorter distances often appear when they are) and for lack of my better judgement I find myself wondering if you truly did do this "for the PPz". well that's is why people emphasizing this own song to emphasizing maps, compare with jumps and some high gap difference in extra diff can be done in this diff, this jumps just an intentional thing to make a higher gap from extra diff, not for pp. and yeah if this map is for pp, im not really sure this map can be a pp map because it contains some hard patterns like some freezing stacks and some spaced triplets on some pattern which can be hard to pp time
  6. You can call this all "subjective to player skill" but that's not a good argument. Just because someone can play it doesn't mean it's good. The whole concept of nearly random 1/2 jumps in sections is exactly what is wrong with modern mapping. It can be fun to play, yes, but it shouldn't be in a damn eroge OP map. Map drumstep or something. Sometimes jumps are made for the purpose of being visually consistent. I CANNOT perfectly coorelate every jump with the perfect intensity associated with it. If you wonder why I do certain jumps, you can ask me. Most of my spacing is done for a reason, and I take pride in it. Just because has a symbol doesnt mean that the song has the feel that warrants a large jump, and thats what you people don't seem to understand. sometimes that 1/2 pattern can be random because weird to play, and yeah distance spacing is really subjective (especially for Extra diff), and well any beatmaps can be mapped like this including drumstep or dubstep, but atleast that song has to be a lower diffs which it can be same example map like this
  7. 00:01:269 (1,1,2) - While these make sense from a musical standpoint, you're less than two seconds in and already asking for nearly half screen jump skips. this jump is easy because it is returning to a previously aimed location therefore the strain in aim is alot less because the person who this difficulty is intended for should easily still have that location in approximate muscle memory. Not only that but this jump satisfys the downbeat for the song start extremely well the jumps can be okay compare with next pattern which can be fine on gameplay
  8. 00:25:020 (2,3) - Let me give you a quick tip here. 1/2 doubles stacked on top of eachother will always vaguely play like ass. This is due to the concept of momentum and forcing the player to literally stop all of their movement. It plays badly. Always. Space these out a bit maybe, even if it's just a dozen pixels, to allow the illusion of movement if nothing else. With a small circle size you're basically locking player cursors here and it kills flow. I've already talked about this, this was 100% intended for the song's purpose. basically if this stack didnt putted like this, probably the gameplay will be much more easier, and yeah you dont like pp map right? the stack didnt unrankable at all and it's really highly pure rankable, even it's like pain
  9. 00:25:913 (7,1) - ^ This doesn't play as bad since it's red->white and there's only one of them and it ends into a new stanza. That's like 3 criteria. It's generally not worth the trouble. I've already talked about this, this was 100% intended for the song's purpose.
  10. 00:26:627 (4,5) - ^ Pretty much the only person I've seen do these 1/2 doubles right in recent history is hollow wings and you're not hollow wings and you're not experienced enough to be throwing so many gimmicks at the wall at least one of them will stick. lmao ok so if I was a "well known mapper" I could do this. stfu, that's not helping a mod that's just belittling me so Hollow wings can be right, probably big mistakes out of here, on much of ranked maps this stacks should be fine to go, better than spamming triplets on here right? literally stacks on red at first is really acceptable and recommended, and it can be stabilized the vocal pattern with downbeat pattern.
  11. 00:41:448 (1) - unnecessary NC. You had no problem letting the combo go to 8,9 literally two combos before this. applied
  12. 00:46:270 (1,1,1) - : | :)? well i think i can agree with this, looks the New combo thingy can be hard to read since it's really high spaced 1/2s, remove NC on 00:46:627 (1,1) - can be better pattern trail
  13. 00:48:591 (1) - more unnecessary NC. applied
  14. 00:53:234 (1,3) - you can blanket these.

    They were blanketed (air blanket as I call it)

  15. I'm... not even going to go over the of spacing in the kiai. This is not flow. The jumps are angled and spaced pretty much at random with no... yeah i mean I'd rather discuss this with you personally to see what you're trying to do here because I'm not sure if you genuinely think you're doing a good job here or you're just pretending to think you are so you can get a lazy map ranked. There are some jumps that I think work really well and some that could be better. I discuss this in my video but I didnt reall'y make a huge talk about the angles and designs of these jumps. I basically just stated that I tried to overal red tick more as that beat was less powerful, but I didnt do that for the first kiai of the jump section, I might change this to evolk more consistency. if this not flow how can some people can play this properly, even it with high jumps, notice this thing: the jumps on here is constant compare with other jump patterns in this map it can be easier to read, aim and hit. Adapting for this map is really easy compared with a map with sudden low spacing and sudden high spacing jumps
well yeah, probably map is for people who want to enjoy songs they like.
it just like when you like song like this but there has not really hard diffs, it feels like it really boring without hard diffs.
and yeah the drums and vocal is really strong enough to create jumps like this, it just lower BPM which it hard to expecting songs like this
hope this thing help for reference, mostly song selection can be weird for this, but yeah mapping is for emphasizing mappers feeling on them, probably it made basically on feeling right, xexxar?

im trying to be neutral in here, i guess everything can be clean and fine like other songs like MIIRO ranked maps.
so well there is 2 options in here

1. Keep this map for ranking, look at ranking criteria for this, and proof this map can be rankable to all people in here. i dont really see amandemens like "an Average BPM songs should be mapped with maximum star rating to x.xx" or "beatmap should be nice look, and have good symmetrical patterns on beatmaps". so yeah this can be logic in many people in here

2. Safest Options in your life, without any nightmare from others, and fastest way to rank your map, delete the map. but as i said in option 1, there should not be any ranking criteria like above. it's really easy rank this map but im not sure some people can take this easily, because yeah subjective matters like many maps on 2013. Simple and acceptable without many misunderstanding you have on here

and yeah i can say "enjoy the game", dont farm pp, for what pp?, if you cookiezi then you should be farm pp some maps, skill =/= pp
if you have a skill doing this map you should be have good comments for this. if you just farm pps, find other easier maps to be farmed, nobody cares your pp if you dont have good skill to make your pp is deserved for you

okay sorry if i said something can be bad, hope this help a bit.

and yeah
debate because rhythm game

nice
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease

Fort wrote:

if this not flow how can some people can play this properly, even it with high jumps, notice this thing: the jumps on here is constant compare with other jump patterns in this map it can be easier to read, aim and hit. Adapting for this map is really easy compared with a map with sudden low spacing and sudden high spacing jumps
One of the thing's that I wanted to avoid was this exact line. That is a big reason for how the slower parts are designed, and also why I really take the my time building the jumps into the final climax.
Secretpipe
*popcorn*
those
Hey man, getting maps ranked is a privilege, not a right.
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease

those wrote:

Hey man, getting maps ranked is a privilege, not a right.
ok?

Like I said, if a QAT tells me that my top difficulty is unacceptable in that it cannot be ranked without major change / remap I will just drop the set.
those
Hey man, you being unable/unwilling to listen to anyone without a title just means you know you're not ready :^)

...especially since being QAT just means they have the ability to physically remove your map from the last part of the ranking process, not that they know better than everyone, or something like that.
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease

those wrote:

Hey man, you being unable/unwilling to listen to anyone without a title just means you know you're not ready :^)

...especially since being QAT just means they have the ability to physically remove your map from the last part of the ranking process, not that they know better than everyone, or something like that.
I do not wish to see this mapset ranked without the top difficulty, it is my choice. I am not interested in making this mapset boring and generic, even if that's what people want.

I simply say that I want a QAT's final word because they're the ones who will ultimately decide whether or not my mapset will be DQ'd.
iiyo

Secretpipe wrote:

*popcorn*
gracefu

Fantasy wrote:

Secretpipe wrote:

*popcorn*
You latecomers, I've been following this drama since the very first bubble

*grabs new bag of popcorn*
lit120
i can read this forum all day

*eats popcorn*
IamKwaN
Can we keep the discussion afterwards constructive? All the posts which are not productive will be removed.
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease
but i wanted popcorn :(

anyway i updated the beatmap with some changes from the previous mods and my own opinion
Anxient
Alright i really dont like reading all this, so lets start from the top. I would like for everyone to answer these questions. Please use simple and clear english when responding. dont use any fancy words or anything coz not all of us is good at reading comprehension. id prefer if the answers are like a sentence long, coz alot of people like to give arguments in HUGE paragraphs and most of the time you dont even understand all of it. i mean, who has time to read that? so short answers please.

lets go.

Question 1: why is the "My Hero" diff unrankable?
Question 2: how is a map's rankibility determined? by the community or by the beatmap managers?
Question 3: if a map is unrankable by the community (people not liking it coz of x reasons), would the problems be weighted to determine if a DQ was worth it?
Question 4: is the "My Hero" diff considered unrankable because Xexxar isn't well known enough as a unique mapper?
Question 5: if "My Hero" was remapped in a similar fashion by a well known jump mapper (example: Fycho, Hollow Wings, Skystar, etc (any unique mapper)), would the community complain about it? Predicted Responses: (for Fycho maps: omg another fycho map! all aboard the pp train!, for HW: omg another HW map how to even read lmao, for Skystar maps: typical skystar map, how to acc/rhythm this)
Question 6: if "My Hero" diff is originally unable to be ranked due to "jumps being too hard", then how did this map manage to get past a BN and a QAT?
Question 7: is this kind of treatment fair to new mappers who are trying something new, or would they have to build their reputation as a unique mapper from the ground up? (example: before ranking with "My Hero" diff, Xexxar must make countless normal maps, gradually increasing the hardest diff jumps of said maps before being clear that he is a jump mapper, and then proceed to rank My Hero, or is he able to rank "My Hero" immediately?)
Question 8: If the community is responsible for deeming what is rankable, how many people are need to justify a map's rankability?

i hope all these questions get answered with clear answers. no ambiguous words. just english that a 2nd language learner can understand.
forum lock incoming i can smell it.
i hope we can all get equal rights as mappers.
im going to attract loctav arent i
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease

Anxient wrote:

Question 8: If the community is responsible for deeming what is rankable, how many people are need to justify a map's rankability?
This same question applies to if it isn't the community deciding.

Two bn's and a QAT have gave their approval of the map. Is this not enough? How am I expected to please every single differing opinion and still have my own taste and style be present in a map?
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease

Shad0w1and wrote:

SPOILER
I would like to give some thoughts about the hero diff, I just suggest you nerf some jumps to sliders in claim parts of this song, of course this might impact your SR, but it will present the music better.
00:01:269 (1,1,2) - nerf DS a bit would be fine
00:04:573 (5,1,2,3,4,5,6) - 00:06:448 (2,3,1,2) - nerf DS
00:08:770 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - these jumps I suggest your nerf them and have some more sliders
00:10:734 (2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - these you could keep imo
00:14:663 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - more sliders
00:16:805 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3) - more sliders
00:29:663 (1,2,3,4,1) - nerf DS a bit
00:42:520 (5,6) - 00:43:234 (1,2) - 00:44:663 (1,2) - sliders work better
00:45:555 (1,2) - nerf a bit
00:54:305 (5,6) - 00:56:091 (1,2) - 00:57:520 (1,2) - 00:58:055 (4,5) - slider
00:59:127 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - keep
01:02:698 (4,5,6) - nerf ds
the rest seems present music well
I did not like your hero diff only because its overdone in the clam part of the song, the jumps should present the peak of the song, not the pp. and the sliders are the soul of mapping, especially for a eroge op theme
edit: its your choice to make changes or not. I would be happy to see your hero diff get ranked, by making some minor changes. mapping for pp and ignore the music is a sad fact in this community.
Wow nice comment. Really A+

You modded my map telling me to nerf spacing and change out circles for sliders. But apparently I am ignoring the song and mapping for pp.

Nice. Please remind me how well you can hear spacing in music. Oh wait you can't.
Shiirn

Anxient wrote:

Question 1: why is the "My Hero" diff unrankable?
Question 2: how is a map's rankibility determined? by the community or by the beatmap managers?
Question 3: if a map is unrankable by the community (people not liking it coz of x reasons), would the problems be weighted to determine if a DQ was worth it?
Question 4: is the "My Hero" diff considered unrankable because Xexxar isn't well known enough as a unique mapper?
Question 5: if "My Hero" was remapped in a similar fashion by a well known jump mapper (example: Fycho, Hollow Wings, Skystar, etc (any unique mapper)), would the community complain about it? Predicted Responses: (for Fycho maps: omg another fycho map! all aboard the pp train!, for HW: omg another HW map how to even read lmao, for Skystar maps: typical skystar map, how to acc/rhythm this)
Question 6: if "My Hero" diff is originally unable to be ranked due to "jumps being too hard", then how did this map manage to get past a BN and a QAT?
Question 7: is this kind of treatment fair to new mappers who are trying something new, or would they have to build their reputation as a unique mapper from the ground up? (example: before ranking with "My Hero" diff, Xexxar must make countless normal maps, gradually increasing the hardest diff jumps of said maps before being clear that he is a jump mapper, and then proceed to rank My Hero, or is he able to rank "My Hero" immediately?
Question 8: If the community is responsible for deeming what is rankable, how many people are need to justify a map's rankability?
I am not a BN or QAT. I'm just some guy. These are just my opinions and feelings towards mapping in general.

1. It isn't technically unrankable, it's just very poor form and encourages bad quality from other mappers.
2. I think you're confusing "rankability" with "quality standards". This map follows all the ranking rules, but doesn't fit the music. It's unsightly.
3. DQs are done for discussion, not as a punishment. DQs do not mean "your map is unrankable", they mean "there are problems that should be addressed and cleared up before we qualify this".
4. It's not a unique style. There is no style to this. There is little structure or patterning to the map. If there was structure and patterning (yes, possibly using that oh-so-disgusting symmetry Xexxar seems to hate), the spacing would be less of an issue because it would more clearly follow a, well, pattern. As it is right now it is purely about reading the next few approach circles and that alone makes for a map that, while entirely playable, isn't good.
5. This isn't about Xexxar. This is about his map. Quit bringing up other mappers. The only reason I mentioned hollow wings in the mod response post is that even hollow wings constantly fucks up 1/2 stacked doubles and she's known as being fairly good at gameplay theory if nothing else. It was not meant to be a comparison to insult Xexxar.
6. Again, it's not unrankable. DQs are not the same as the old deranks. DQs are fired off first to discuss the map, which is what everyone is doing.
7. The entire point of the ranking system is that newbie mappers don't know what they are doing and modding is used to help share experience. Part of the reason this map is having so much trouble is that as a newer mapper, Xexxar is refusing to listen to most kinds of commentary. It sets a horrible example, regardless of whether he is doing things right or not.
8. The system right now uses two or three BN to set up a map, and then QATs look at the map over the course of the week. Therefore, a handful of people need to at least agree that this kind of map is fine to let through the ranking process, which is clearly not happening.


This map is not being held hostage in any way. When the mapper can respond to input and suggestions without becoming incredibly defensive or aggressive, things move much more smoothly. The reason Xexxar is facing such issues is because he outright refuses to listen to advice from many more experienced mappers and modders. Myself included. He rudely brushed me off and ignored me when I explained in detail why the jumps in My Hero (this is a fairly long paragraph about relative spacing theory that I won't spit out again without being asked) were considered overkill and how to fix them in such a way that he can keep the spirit of the jumpy map.

The mapper is as much a problem, if not more so, than the map.
IamKwaN
Creator being silenced, locked.

Let anyone of the Team know if you still want to move this forward, Xexxar.

EDIT: Alright, the mapper wants to continue with this set, unlocked. Remember to keep the discussion constructive and responses courteous.
ErunamoJAZZ
I just want to point: You will wanna keep your last diff as Optional too, and go a head with your mapset.
Dont drop all mapset only for one diff.
Anxient
https://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/comments/406st3/ranking_questions_regarding_my_hero_up_yo/
relevant reddit post i made to draw more attention to the questions
(because someone fed bancho the same kind of drugs that BSS-chan was eating)

EDIT 1: for the upcoming comments, please keep foul behaviour and language to the absolute minimum. im not the one to say but its pretty obvious aint it?
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease

ErunamoJAZZ wrote:

I just want to point: You will wanna keep your last diff as Optional too, and go a head with your mapset.
Dont drop all mapset only for one diff.
Shiirn
The thing is, Time Freeze is objectively good. Any problems he had was just from it being a 240bpm streamfest, not because his spacing wasn't up to snuff.
Side
WALL OF TEXT
The way the current system works is a map is usually qualified to push it forward because it's "good enough". The ranking criteria is honestly very lenient so this is actually very easy to do (hence the hundreds of speedranked maps nowadays). The second step is (usually) a map gets disqualified either because QAT finds something unrankable or there are people in the community that have reason/concerns for the map. If the reasons make sense the map will usually be disqualified immediately so that the concerns can be addressed. This also usually leads to more people providing input on what can be improved.

Most people make the mistake that "if my map was qualified the first time it's clearly perfect (minus the thing it was DQ'd for) so I have no reason do change anything :^))))

Anxient those questions could be addressed for literally ANY map that was disqualified at some point. The same questions could be asked for your map or mine and honestly they're meaningless and provide nothing but a passive-aggressive means of gathering input on a system not the map itself. Taking to reddit further proves that point because you know the community is largely players that don't know much (if anything) about the ranking system at all and the people that do already browse qualified threads anyway.

Back to the map. I'm not at my computer nor have I actually seen the map yet but I'll definitely do so once I have time. What I CAN say is there have been many people raising the same concerns and providing arguments justifying their points. So far most counter-arguments have been similar to a "This is how I feel it should be it's my preference and I don't have reason to need to justify this". Needless to say (again) the replies have also been very passive agressive including in the youtube video.

You have to understand that while the ranking system isn't perfect it's still the system everyone uses. Whether or not it changes in the future is up to staff. The disqualifications that happen are usually because the map is good enough to be RANKABLE but it can still be improved and that's what the discussion is here for. Sure you don't have to address EVERY point but there's no reason to rush qualification just make it good make it different (please no one likes seeing the same map over a different song over and over again) and make it something you can at least be proud of ranked or otherwise.

Also remember that the mapping community is a COMMUNITY (omg redundant). This is a group that voluntarily provides content for osu. They also provide time and effort to try to help others. Every input is invaluable and whether or not you decide to change anything is still up to you but PLEASE keep in mind these people are not trying to hurt you or atack you by pointing out "suggestions" or "mistakes". Passive agressive or just straight up condescending replies (maybe not the right word pardon my englando) both offend the modders and hurt people's view on you. Who wants to help a person who doesn't care about the people trying to help them? You don't wanna hurt your reputation like bearizm. He's a good mapper but that recent event with his set surely made him look bad.


EDIT: Also trying to justify points through previously qualified maps is always a bad idea. If the map was qualified and a point was made and it was a mistake using it against QATs doesn't justify that same "mistake" applying to your map. Keep that in mind.



I might have overlooked a few points and it's not proofread so maybe somethings were not said correctly by me. It's hard to review 380 lines of text in a tiny ass phone screen x_x but yeh I'll check the map out later.
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease
Edit: :|
Bonsai
Something unrelated to everything here, Okoratu mentioned it in his first post but for a different reason:
01:15:913 - The bpm of this timing point is incorrect: It makes the measure start one 1/2 before the downbeat but end on the downbeat, which is messed up. It is intended to shift the offset by -16ms over the course of a whole measure, lowering it by 17,25bpm can't be right for that lol - What you want to do is make this timing point 169,7bpm.

@those questions: Please don't start the "If the mapper were famous nobody would dare to question it"-thing orz
Mazzerin

Natsu wrote:

Your My Hero! diff is the same as your Extra, just with higher spacing, Extra diff is fine (even I would agree to move this set forward with that),
this looks like a contradiction to me.. if the extra is a good diff and the top one is like the extra but with consistently larger spacing, where's the problem? hell i can't even call some of these "jumps" "jumps" like broccoly said, i bet skystar could pull off a 6.3* star diff off of this if he wanted to and it would be completely fine.
also 10/10 at shrin not even watching the explanation video yet commenting about how the explanations "aren't right" and even trying to "convince" the mapper into thinking that he's lying??
this really did get unranked for no reason, 2 bns qualified this, d-kun said it's fine, broccoly said it's fine, dozens of people said it's fine, natsu's mod honestly seems more like a personal attack than a mod to me, same "spacing" issues are mentioned like in the mods before the qualification which were denied.
Natsu

Mazzerin wrote:

Natsu wrote:

Your My Hero! diff is the same as your Extra, just with higher spacing, Extra diff is fine (even I would agree to move this set forward with that),
this looks like a contradiction to me.. if the extra is a good diff and the top one is like the extra but with consistently larger spacing, where's the problem? hell i can't even call some of these "jumps" "jumps" like broccoly said, i bet skystar could pull off a 6.3* star diff off of this if he wanted to and it would be completely fine.
also 10/10 at shrin not even watching the explanation video yet commenting about how the explanations "aren't right" and even trying to "convince" the mapper into thinking that he's lying??
this really did get unranked for no reason, 2 bns qualified this, d-kun said it's fine, broccoly said it's fine, dozens of people said it's fine, natsu's mod honestly seems more like a personal attack than a mod to me, same "spacing" issues are mentioned like in the mods before the qualification which were denied.

I don't see what are you reading lol, my mod wasn't an attack at any point, see maps rating check people opinion at discuss thing, check the map. I just did open the discussion again, because of the big amount of people complaining at the low quality of Hero diff


Contradiction?

Extra diff is fine > Hero diff seems a copy past + Scale by.... , which doesn't compliment the song imo.

DQ for no reason?

There is a Discuss on going, if you don't know that's how things work now, DQ first then Discuss
People that say is fine are not even the half of the people complaining at this map (not saying who is wrong and who is right)
Any mapper can do a 6 or 7 + star diff for this song, that doesn't mean it fit the song.
And yes you cant even call those jumps, cause the whole map doesn't follow a relative spacing, is all a jump, check the post that Axient did on reddit and see what most of people are saying.


2 bns qualified this, d-kun said it's fine

not everyone is the same person and has the same standards (that's why test time (qualify section) exist

Anyways at this point I think is better to call QATs or Loctav, because not agreement has been done so far.
HappyRocket88

Xexxar wrote:

At this point I'm more or less done with this set.

I am willing to do any minor changes deemed necessary to rank this map. I am not interested in deleting it for the sake of rank however.
"minor changes" be like: "blancket" "add a note" "move this node to x|y"

i guess you're not willingly to reduce the spacing of the jumps from my hero diff because you still believe you've done a great job mapping them, but this game is built by the community. You can't be narrow minded denying what most people have disagreed with QATs don't have the last word if more issues arose to discuss.
jawns
First off I want to point out I'm not an experienced mapper at all.

Second off, that shouldn't matter at all, my opinion is as important as anybody else's. Remember, the map is supposed to be played by "players" not just "mappers" or "BNs/QATs".

So, I've been following the discussion a bit, and after playing the map, I think it's quite enjoyable. In fact, I think it is great, and I feel like this should be ranked.

But apparently a lot of other people feel different about this. Apparently a lot of people feel like a major problem is, that they think the spacing is overkill, and that the map is overall too difficult. I completely disagree...

While I'm not experienced in mapping, that shouldn't mean I shouldn't be able to judge the intensity of the song. And this song is pretty intense, I don't see how anybody disagrees with that. It's got distorted guitars and aggressive drums/drum fills throughout the entire song, that honestly wouldn't be too out of place in a heavy metal song. So the difficulty seems appropriate to me.

While I do agree, that it is important to listen to mods, I also think it's important to not necessarily make any changes you disagree with, since even a bunch of experienced mappers can be biased, or simply wrong.

I have a lot of respect for Xexxar for sticking to his guns, and wish him the best of luck on this map, as well as future ones! :)
Slayed_old_1
in the insane diff

01:11:270 (4) - here should be a NC due to SV changes

01:18:575 (2) - here also (probably instead of NC 01:18:396 (1) - here)
mithew
anyone else here hyped for hvicks new top rank?
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease

Slayed wrote:

in the insane diff

01:11:270 (4) - here should be a NC due to SV changes This timing point can simply be removed because it's function is from the previous difficulty, not this.

01:18:575 (2) - here also (probably instead of NC 01:18:396 (1) - here) This is done for readability since it's changing from 1/1 to 1/2. I don't see the problem.

mithew wrote:

anyone else here hyped for hvicks new top rank?
please refrain from posting off topic comments.


Bonsai wrote:

Something unrelated to everything here, Okoratu mentioned it in his first post but for a different reason:
01:15:913 - The bpm of this timing point is incorrect: It makes the measure start one 1/2 before the downbeat but end on the downbeat, which is messed up. It is intended to shift the offset by -16ms over the course of a whole measure, lowering it by 17,25bpm can't be right for that lol - What you want to do is make this timing point 169,7bpm.

@those questions: Please don't start the "If the mapper were famous nobody would dare to question it"-thing orz
thank you! seems much more logical now. I also added a red tick on the final kiai end to reset Nightcore cymbal crash to be in tune with the music.
Strategas
Saying things like "this difficulty doesn't support the song" isn't very logical considering the current ranking system. If that was the case, then delete all the easy/ normal diffs on more intense mapsets lol... isn't the point of the spread to have more difficulties so more players could choose the difficulty that seems more appropriate to them?

The my hero difficulty itself seems fine, but my only concern is that some beats are not emphasized that well ( too lazy to check them now ).

I also checked on the more recently ranked maps and those have the same problems that some people pointed out. The current ranking criteria is really old and needs renewing, but that's how it is atm so have to deal with it. However I still agree that map can be improved, but dqing the map to discuss is really painful and stupid imo. A lot of new mappers can't take it / don't understand it even if it was aimed at helping them improve their maps and end up abandoning their map instead of trying to put it back to qualified.

Just my thoughts, bye.
Ciyus Miapah
- find a Composer who can remix this song, Remix it to Dubstep or hardcore, or breakcore genre song, then rank it immediately, so nobody complains about song again lol.

probably [My Hero!] diff is OKAY, dont insult xexxar for low quality terms of mapping please. The standard of mappings is like this at all

but yeah the song choice is the key of this thing at all

Strategas wrote:

Saying things like "this difficulty doesn't support the song" isn't very logical considering the current ranking system. If that was the case, then delete all the easy/ normal diffs on more intense mapsets lol... isn't the point of the spread to have more difficulties so more players could choose the difficulty that seems more appropriate to them?
i hope this thing can be allowed for higher diffs, in opposite way
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease

Fort wrote:

Strategas wrote:

Saying things like "this difficulty doesn't support the song" isn't very logical considering the current ranking system. If that was the case, then delete all the easy/ normal diffs on more intense mapsets lol... isn't the point of the spread to have more difficulties so more players could choose the difficulty that seems more appropriate to them?
i hope this thing can be allowed for higher diffs, in opposite way
Of course you would :P
Kunino Sagiri
You don't see people complaining about decent 6 star maps filled with jumps. Maybe they bash it by "lol pp jump maps again" "RSI map huhu" but that's as far as it goes.

The last diff's 01:06:305-01:16:832 is filled with patterns that forces you to miss that it puts most of Skystar's diffs and maps to shame if that's who you want to compare with. I could mention some maps with higher star/jump difficulties than this with 0 complaints but I think that's unnecessary.
ac8129464363
Your concerns are irrelevant. We're talking about this map alone, and not any other map. Maps are considered on case-by-case. It's just a bit disappointing that people only get up in arms about this map.

Kunino Sagiri wrote:

The last diff's 01:06:305-01:16:832 is filled with patterns that forces you to miss
Or maybe you just can't aim them? A lot of people would find these easy, so that's completely down to the player. They definitely don't force you to miss.
Kinshara
Wow this thread blew up.

Well, I think we should stop commenting on the difficulty of the map. Xexxar doesn't seem to be yielding to any of the reasons anyway. The original DQ reason was unused hitsounds, and that has been fixed. If you wanna mod, go ahead.

Let's move this map forward instead of holding it back.
Kunino Sagiri

deetz wrote:

Maps are considered on case-by-case
Nah, it's pretty identical to Bearizm's Kneesocks ebin pattern at 01:17:338-01:22:359 but literally 2x longer and the funny thing here is that this has a lower star rating.
Okoratu
Maps are pretty much considered on a case by case basis.

Anything else is nonsense
Topic Starter
I Must Decrease

Kunino Sagiri wrote:

deetz wrote:

Maps are considered on case-by-case
Nah, it's pretty identical to Bearizm's Kneesocks ebin pattern at 01:17:338-01:22:359 but literally 2x longer and the funny thing here is that this has a lower star rating.
Bpm is lower. Pattern fits the beat of the song.

What is your complaint? It's too hard? That's subjective as deetz said.
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