Gratz!!
Oko, please
Log >___________>>>>>
Oko, please
Log >___________>>>>>
DQ'd for basically this reason, as well as overmapped and the general state of how overdone this map is.Log wrote:
2015-11-15 16:38 Okoratu: my main issue with it is that you take consistency and throw it out of your list of concepts
Yuii- wrote:
Alright, so I want to throw in a couple of suggestions/things:
Slider Velocity is too high. Subjective.
Approach rate is too high. Subjetive.
OD is too high. Subjective. tho it might be a bit overdone, okoratu suggested it, but I still think it's fine
01:10:993 (1,1) - This is the most marvelous stack I've even seen in this game. It's not a stack.
You should really take a look at other people's maps in order to know how to build jumps, they don't flow at all, and have inconsistent spacing between each object.
You have 4 unsnapped sliders by 1 ms: 01:53:293 (1) - 02:04:393 (4) - 02:05:143 (2) - 02:05:593 (3) - . AIMod says nothing? It clearly doesn't matter?
Combo colour 5 is a bit too random. Do I really need to comment on that?
You're hella inconsistent with your patterns and the way you build them. 40 different rhythms for the same verse. Variety is fine, but sometimes mapping anything in a different way rather than the "best one" may sound bad.
Too many velocity changes/spots, why? Come on.
Some sections are mapped in a very "calm" way whereas the same things are overmapped. You want to make this overmapped or calm? There's no middle point.
00:51:868 (5) - Full whistle sounds terrible. I disagree, it's short and cool imo.
I am honestly sorry for commenting like this, but some of those stuff make me boil up. As you said, people interpret songs differently, as Rakuen created a relatively easy and relaxed set for this song, I find the vocals very strong and if someone doesn't like the way I emphasize them, then why would even play this map?Irreversible wrote:
Hey AvishayDQ'd for basically this reason, as well as overmapped and the general state of how overdone this map is.Log wrote:
2015-11-15 16:38 Okoratu: my main issue with it is that you take consistency and throw it out of your list of concepts
Beginning
The main issue with this map is the overmap in the kiai's clearly. Instead of telling you which ones you should delete, I'll list up the ones you can keep (speaking of kiai only). Hm, that's kinda absurd, I find my 1/8 notes emphasizing the song, yeah most of them might be overmapped but it is clearly widely used in the current mapping-meta, I could give you more than several exmaples.
01:26:743 - 01:45:943 - 01:55:543 - 03:31:543 - 03:41:143 - 04:00:343 - 04:29:143 -
The rest of your 1/8 simply does not belong to this song, because there is no reason to, at all. The other parts also contains overmap, listen to it again, it's really obvious.
I do see that everyone interpretes songs differently, however, this has clearly gone overboard. This song is relatively calm, and I do not see such a usage of jumps. There are a lot of opportunities to tone the difficulty down, for example 03:06:493 (1,2,3,4,5) - . You said you want to emphasize vocals, but there's no vocals here, nor strong beats. Unfortunately, the whole map is spiked with those so you really gotta rework a lot of that stuff. Do you want to talk about Genryuu Kaiko then? Obviously I do emphasize vocals, but I emphasize notes that I find strong as well.
Emphasis is bad too, sometimes. Example: 01:10:993 (1) - . Could use more spacing, because the vocals are really emphasized here, why not taking this opportunity? Next example: the anti jumps are killing the movement enitrely, you've used them fairly often. 01:11:443 (1) - .. why is it so close? makes no sense. Emphasizition comes in a big variety, some might do this and some might do that, in this certain pattern I chouse the movement of 01:10:693 (3) - along with the increased SV of the slider. As for the anti-jump, the placement of the circle is meant to make some drawback along with the halt of the vocals and then it gets resumed at 01:11:593 (2) -
Your NCing is inconsistent too, you should look at it again. It seems like you've just sometimes put a NC, sometimes not. Would appreciate specific problematic NCing since it clearly doesn't the way the map plays, mostly I could tell you why there's a NC there.
These examples should be enough to give you an idea how to improve the map and make it ready for the qualified section, listing up more would not make sense; it's basically the same stuff over and over.
Good luck with further processing.
You just said it yourself, it is overmapped. Fix it up.Avishay wrote:
Hm, that's kinda absurd, I find my 1/8 notes emphasizing the song, yeah most of them might be overmapped but it is clearly widely used in the current mapping-meta, I could give you more than several exmaples.
No I don't want to talk about it, the spotlight is on your map. I explained you that everyone can interprete something different, as long as it doesn't go over board, and this exactly does this.Avishay wrote:
Do you want to talk about Genryuu Kaiko then? Obviously I do emphasize vocals, but I emphasize notes that I find strong as well.
You have 300 different types of variation, which shows that it's basically random without concept.Avishay wrote:
Emphasizition comes in a big variety, some might do this and some might do that, in this certain pattern I chouse the movement of 01:10:693 (3) - along with the increased SV of the slider. As for the anti-jump, the placement of the circle is meant to make some drawback along with the halt of the vocals and then it gets resumed at 01:11:593 (2) -
00:05:293 (3) - Why not NC? 00:03:643 (1) - You made one here.Avishay wrote:
Would appreciate specific problematic NCing since it clearly doesn't the way the map plays, mostly I could tell you why there's a NC there.
Do I really need to update it just for one NC?Irreversible wrote:
You just said it yourself, it is overmapped. Fix it up. You are telling me that overmapping is wrong / disallowed? I'm sorry but the recent maps in the Ranked section are saying completely otherwise.Avishay wrote:
Hm, that's kinda absurd, I find my 1/8 notes emphasizing the song, yeah most of them might be overmapped but it is clearly widely used in the current mapping-meta, I could give you more than several exmaples.No I don't want to talk about it, the spotlight is on your map. I explained you that everyone can interprete something different, as long as it doesn't go over board, and this exactly does this. How exactly is my map going overboard, how are jumps (which are not even full screen spam) with strong vocals or beats are overboard? I didn't spam the map with one huge stream when there's completely nothing. The notes are always supported by strong vocals or beats, it's not overboard.Avishay wrote:
Do you want to talk about Genryuu Kaiko then? Obviously I do emphasize vocals, but I emphasize notes that I find strong as well.You have 300 different types of variation, which shows that it's basically random without concept. Random means without concept, I can say clearly that I have concept in at least 95% of my patterns. I'll agree that I don't have a single structure that I tend to follow or use in my patterns, but that's the beauty of the way I do it, I don't find it mandatory to follow the same thing over and over.Avishay wrote:
Emphasizition comes in a big variety, some might do this and some might do that, in this certain pattern I chouse the movement of 01:10:693 (3) - along with the increased SV of the slider. As for the anti-jump, the placement of the circle is meant to make some drawback along with the halt of the vocals and then it gets resumed at 01:11:593 (2) -00:05:293 (3) - Why not NC? 00:03:643 (1) - You made one here. I made a NC there because of the pause between 00:03:343 (5,1) -Avishay wrote:
Would appreciate specific problematic NCing since it clearly doesn't the way the map plays, mostly I could tell you why there's a NC there.
00:06:193 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Why did you place no NC here, no logic with before. No SV changes, a single full pattern without breaks.
00:23:593 (1) - Why NC, no strong beat, no vocal start, nothing. Indication of anti-jumps end.
00:37:693 (4) - According to your logic this should be NC I actually agree on this one.
I'll stop here because you follow the piano, the vocals, just everything with placing a NC which makes it messy, unreadable, unlogical.
Oh, 00:38:593 (1,1,1,2,1,2) - and why these have so many SVs, I don't even. Slight SV changes with vocals while their intensity increases, the slow down is because of the slowdown in the vocals.
Avishay wrote:
I can say clearly that I have concept in at least 95% of my patterns.
And? conept != consistency.Yuii- wrote:
Avishay wrote:
I can say clearly that I have concept in at least 95% of my patterns.
Thanks for the links, I wasn't sure if I am allowed to do it, I honestly prefer just 'Hanatan' so I'll change it now.Natsu wrote:
btw just wonder about artist: YURiCa/HANATAN they are the same person iirc, probably ask some Japanese QATs opinion? tbh I feel just Hanatan or YURICa its better. Also Hanatan shouldn't be in CAPS, since is like that on CD just for design purpose.
We did have a similar discussion before with Melophobia, Kshr, Oracle and Gero about this:
1 - p/3407933
2 - p/3407904
Natsu wrote:
btw just wonder about artist: YURiCa/HANATAN they are the same person iirc, probably ask some Japanese QATs opinion? tbh I feel just Hanatan or YURICa its better. Also Hanatan shouldn't be in CAPS, since is like that on CD just for design purpose.
We did have a similar discussion before with Melophobia, Kshr, Oracle and Gero about this:
1 - p/3407933
2 - p/3407904
I'll just reiterate this since there are still doubts around the name. But, if you can substantiate more than just the album cover then okneonat wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/3948780
I believe this can be relevant for this album, and the other older albums like Flower Drops and Summer☆Syrup if you want, personally I would like YURiCa/Hanatan but I don't know about others, like what went on in my map.
because really that HANATAN part...
and the cordelia site is no longer around
Thanks!Asphyxia wrote:
Just my two cents.
Some of the overmaps would be much better off as 1/2 though, especially the ones in the choruses. Since the choruses already offer enough rhythm diversity from actual 1/4's, I think keeping rest of it as 1/2 would be much more beneficial and it'd just feel overall much better with the song. I'm talking about overmaps like 01:44:143 (2,3,1) - , 01:49:318 (4) - , 01:54:118 (2) - , 03:43:993 (2,3) - , 03:48:868 (2) - and so on... (01:43:243 (5,6,7) - if you're going to do this, you might as well could try silencing the slider ends, since they don't have any beats to support their ends) I picked those notes to emphasize the vocals mostly, I could probably remove those, change the pattern to support the vocals in a different way (sliders, spacing, whatever). However I feel that those 1/4 (1/8) are fine as they are, and removing them will force me to change the struct of the patterns and it is probably not a good idea.
Slowdowns such as 01:53:293 (1) - and 03:58:093 (1) - feel weird to play, because you're still in the intense chorus part, you want to move fast. I personally don't think a slowdowns fit in the first place, but it seems that you think they fit. That being the case, I'd recommend using something faster, like 0,9 slider velo? That wouldn't feel nearly as anti-climatic as these do currently. That's the cool thing, you are moving with the intensity of the strong drums and then the long ring is coming, stopping the strong drums and the player continiues with the slider that follows the ring. I like the way the sliders go with the instrument so I am persistent on keeping it.
Lastly, I think this suffers a lot for the very same reasons as your Rolling Star map, you might remember that, but maybe that's just me... :p Map tries to be so many different things, yet it ends up being a little random in general. 04:05:293 (1) - Also, if you're going for symmetry, you might as well do it properly because this looks really off, especially when you have 04:05:893 (3,4) - these which are perfectly symmetrical. A while ago I took a look on Rolling Star, I realised how much better it could've been, but I was not experienced enough to see what stuff I could change, from poor asthetics to overall feel, I started remapping it but I lazied out in the end, I might get to it some time. I have paid a lot of attention to this map and it might be random in general, as long as it isn't wonky or completely erm, stupid, it's completely fine. Oh and for that slider, I don't know how no one noticed it by far, fixed.
Anyhow, best of luck with your map!
I honestly appreciate help, but not in this way, you have completely ignored what I said previously:Hula wrote:
Okay. So, you got a map disqualified.
This map was disqualified was for consistency reasons and on top of that an overarching overmapping issue. You should now decide how you're going to respond to this. People do this in one of two ways, they either accept the dq and make changes no matter how drastic they are or just grave the map, or they can take your approach and become irrational and argue irrelevant points.
Don't try to justify your map's overmap on the basis of other questionable maps' ranked status. Irreversible is one person, there's between 6 and 9 standard qualifications a day, do you want him to check every single mapset himself and dq them? (Irre is like the only active QAT right now that's dqing - which is what this system is all about).
For me what's most wrong with this map is probably the overuse of 1/4 and the spacing accompanying it. Also the lack of consistency in patterns and spacing.
One example. 01:33:493 (1,2,3,4,5) - this is a frequently recurring theme within the kiai which SHOULD be emphasised. It is. But, it's not consistent by a long shot. 01:43:093 (3,4,5,6,7) - the hell? sliders? 01:52:693 (1,2,3,4) - Now we get a nearly full screen star jump. 02:02:443 (1,2,3,4) - Now we have a pretty tame square.
This is an example of how not to be consistent. 1/4 sliders play a lot differently to star patterns and star patterns play a lot differently to much smaller squares.
In regards to those 1/8 triples being slapped in for the sake of it. Sure, they play fine, are they part of the song's rhythm in either backbeat or vocals? NOPE. So, you remove them. They don't fit.
@Monstrata Seriously, stop trying to cockblock Irre's attempts at being a QAT. He's a fucking guy, the only guy on QAT doing what QAT were instructed to do. Disqualify maps which don't meet decent standards.
This map needs a lot of work doing to it, especially in the consistency department. It is probably the fact that the inconsistently exacerbates the overmapping issue, though I would address both.
I might seem a bit pissy in this post. Cos I am, this sort of nonsense in response to mods which are aimed at helping people is so damn off putting and makes me not want to sign in. IDK how Irre puts up with this sort of shit and still wants to be such an integral part of this community.
Avishay wrote:
And? conept != consistency.
I am talking about concept between specific patterns, not the map overall.
As I said in the chat with Okoratu, if I find the consistency fitting to my likes in a certain part in the map / song, I'll use it.
It very well is a reason, you should not forget this is a rhythm game. If there is nothing in the song, why would you place something? I do still believe that there is good and bad overmap. This is definitely an example of bad overmap. Good overmap would be emphasizing some downbeats with a triplet from red to white; why would you emphasize an offbeat (red tick) which is almost not existant? Or even invent a stream of 5 (as seen 04:26:893 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - ) where there is no clearly hearable 1/4?monstrata wrote:
Overmapping =/= poor quality.
DQ'ing solely on the basis that something is "overmapped" just isn't a valid quality reason. "You just said it yourself, it is overmapped. Fix it up."
No, because this horizon was never meant to exist, you should follow the song and not invent a new one.monstrata wrote:
That's just limiting new horizons.
You need to distinguish. I can't completely disagree, however - I am pretty sure there is bad overmap going around too. It's up to the BNs to point this stuff out and make people aware of it.monstrata wrote:
Plenty of maps have overmapped parts. You should really ask yourself why something is overmapped before telling someone to fix it. Otherwise mappers are just going to be angry because you single them out but allow many other maps with overmapped sections to pass.
This does not matter (yet). Because first of all, the rhythm has to be correct. Then playability and flow has their turns.monstrata wrote:
Looking at the map some parts are indeed overmapped but I don't see these overmapped 1/8's being problematic in terms of playability, nor flow.
It's not about the star rating, again. It's about the fact, that there is simply no 1/8 hearable at most spots.monstrata wrote:
Do they make patterns awkward, or visually unappealing? For me, the only one i didn't really like was 03:48:493 (1,2,3) -. The others were fine. Are they difficult to read? No. Does this rhythm choice harm the map? I would actually say this rhythm choice fits the map because it adds rhythm diversity to a map that is trying to be difficult, and contributes to an overall denser rhythm choice, which fits when the map is 5.76 stars. (It's also funny because removing the "overmapped 1/8s" does nothing to lower star rating anyways. The map doesn't become any less difficult, just less dense.). In conclusion, no. I would say the 1/8's are overmapped but do not contribute to a loss of quality in the map. Therefore, why fix something that isn't broken?
And it's like you forget that this is a rhythm game, and that there is something called rules. Yeah, the ranking criteria is pretty outdated. But it should even be seeable for you, that you should follow the song and not invent a new one.Avishay wrote:
It's like people are forgetting the most important aspect of the game, enjoying it.
You are either completely blind or have something against me and this map.Irreversible wrote:
And it's like you forget that this is a rhythm game, and that there is something called rules. Yeah, the ranking criteria is pretty outdated. But it should even be seeable for you, that you should follow the song and not invent a new one.
My mistakes? If they were mistakes I would fix them already.handsome wrote:
stop using past ranked maps to justify your mistakes
Yeah I am aware of it, but mostly thebyfar wrote:
just dropping by and giving my 2 cents
didnt look at the map, but im pretty sure that as long as you silence the slider ends (or not) and that it fits with the song (such as slightly held out longer beats, etc) it should be fine.
a lot of maps that contain extended 3/4 sliders (which acts as a hold note for held vocals, despite not having an actual beat on the 3/4) are currently ranked and can still be ranked iirc
Irreversible wrote:
Silenced ends are indeed a good technique to fully emphasize vocals.
01:53:893 (1,2,3,4) - Still overmapped. Please listen closely, delete the note and you'll hear a note there.
01:51:793 (3,4,5) - Could benefit of being silenced, too. I have no objections, alright.
02:43:693 (5,1) - Why is it NC'd like this? Shouldn't it be on the downbeat? Moved NC to 02:43:393 (1) -
My opinion is simply that you should get more mods
This is pretty much the essence of this post, there's something completely wrong here.Blue Dragon wrote:
OH NO people have different opinions!
What if the maps that you consider good, are actually 1/2 spam with no spacing which people worship as "the best maps" such as some of caren's or silynn's maps, that barely follow anything in the ranking criteria and have zero technical qualify?
People should know that maps that get ranked are the ones who have rankable quality. If you don't like it, someone else does. That's why it got ranked in the first place. People should really acknowledge that other people have different opinions.
"This map is an overmapped piece of shit, it's not an opinion, it's a fact! just listen to the music guys, you're wrong and i'm right!!!!!"
So many? Regardless I've raised some points generally, I'd love to get a response.Raiden wrote:
holy shit avishay
don't wanna give the party popping but if so many people tell you something (and they know what they do) then it probably means that something xd
No it does not.Feb wrote:
actually genryuu kaiko has premanent 1/4's but the sounds are imo not very audible.
"Leaving the map as it is, letting it die slowly and get to the beatmap graveyard (no worries you can still download and play those)"Your map will stll be there. The map will still be there w/o it being "molested" by all those "rude" opinions. (a map will "die" regardless of being ranked or in the graveyar)
Smokeman wrote:
IF your interpretation looks "flawed" or not "quite there yet" in the eyes of clearly more experienced ppl, then you should reconcider what you are doing here. NOONE wants to fuck your shit up. NOONE will gain anything from that. All these ppl modding and giving suggestions do it because they love doing this: mapping songs and helping others.