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Demetori - Yuuga ni Sakase, Sumizome no Sakura ~ Border of L

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Keada
Heey~ M4M from my queue :>
I looooooooove Demetori <3


  • General

  1. Your map need some hitsounds D: cause the default ones is so boring .-. sooo I picked some for you :D http://puu.sh/hVUTC/8423a2f15d.rar
    hope you like them, and know how to use them :D
    Come poke me if you dont know how :3 aaand if you need help with the hitsounds, I can do it too ^-^ I love hitsounding Demetori <3
  2. OD8 should be fine in this map
  3. Consider having capital letters on all new words in your diffname (nothing big but) so it should be Flower-Viewing Party :>


  • Flower-Viewing Party

  1. 00:04:431 (1) - this loses flow a little bit
  2. 00:29:116 (1) - sliderend isnt perfectly stacked but its like a millimeter or something so xD
  3. 00:29:631 (2,4) - ctrl+g here? would be cool
  4. 00:44:888 (3) - make this the other way for better flow + it plays better, can also blanket http://puu.sh/hVTzl/b0eaecaea0.jpg
  5. 01:20:031 (1,3) - not sure if intentional or not, but this isnt correctly stacked
  6. 01:22:431 (5) - could move this a little bit to the left so it doesnt overlap 01:21:745 (2) - or just take the slider a bit to the right cause its overlapped with 01:21:059 (6) - as well
  7. 01:43:516 (1) - shouldnt and should be a note here, dont know but it isnt a beat here in the music. You could either do a slider over this big white tick or you can remove the note there and do it like you did here 02:39:574 (1,2) - would play pretty nice too
  8. 01:54:659 (5,6,7) - fix this pattern? to a triangle like this maybe? http://puu.sh/hVTXF/b1fdb69b34.jpg
  9. 02:05:802 (7) - move a bit to the left to get a nicer triangle here 02:04:431 (2,3,7) - then you need to move the next slider too, but that shouldnt be a problem should it ;)
  10. 02:26:202 (2) - stack? with 02:25:259 (4) -
  11. 02:31:174 (8,1,2,3,4,5,6) - The patterns here doesnt really look so good D: try something like this: http://puu.sh/hVUdw/78afbe0fdb.jpg
  12. 02:44:888 (8) - dont overlap with 02:43:945 (2) -
  13. 02:47:974 (2) - Move a bit down on this, its kinda close to the (7)
  14. 03:04:088 (6,1,2,3) - Triangle alittle bit off
  15. 03:29:888 - could fit with a note here, would fit the solo if you listen to the guitar :D
  16. 03:30:231 - same here ^
  17. 03:46:859 (1,2,4,6,7) - triangle a bit off again D:
  18. 04:03:745 (5) - move a bit up to correct the triangle (I am upsessed with triangles DDDDD:)
  19. 05:27:916 (7,8,1) - Triangle :D
  20. 05:33:059 (5,6) - Ctrl+G

Pretty good map here, was hard to find much here D: oh well, Ill give you a star too <3 since Demetori is luv and this map seems so fun to play :D shame I cant play at night ;w;
Topic Starter
Alheak

Keada wrote:

Heey~ M4M from my queue :>
I looooooooove Demetori <3


  • General

  1. Your map need some hitsounds D: cause the default ones is so boring .-. sooo I picked some for you :D http://puu.sh/hVUTC/8423a2f15d.rar
    hope you like them, and know how to use them :D
    Come poke me if you dont know how :3 aaand if you need help with the hitsounds, I can do it too ^-^ I love hitsounding Demetori <3 Alright nice i'm gonna need you then :D
  2. OD8 should be fine in this map I think OD8.5 is fine too
  3. Consider having capital letters on all new words in your diffname (nothing big but) so it should be Flower-Viewing Party :> Ok done :3


  • Flower-Viewing Party

  1. 00:04:431 (1) - this loses flow a little bit Yep, changed but still trying to figure out how I could make this better
  2. 00:29:116 (1) - sliderend isnt perfectly stacked but its like a millimeter or something so xD Alright fixed
  3. 00:29:631 (2,4) - ctrl+g here? would be cool Yeah why not
  4. 00:44:888 (3) - make this the other way for better flow + it plays better, can also blanket http://puu.sh/hVTzl/b0eaecaea0.jpg Changed
  5. 01:20:031 (1,3) - not sure if intentional or not, but this isnt correctly stacked fixed
  6. 01:22:431 (5) - could move this a little bit to the left so it doesnt overlap 01:21:745 (2) - or just take the slider a bit to the right cause its overlapped with 01:21:059 (6) - as well Moved the slider
  7. 01:43:516 (1) - shouldnt and should be a note here, dont know but it isnt a beat here in the music. You could either do a slider over this big white tick or you can remove the note there and do it like you did here 02:39:574 (1,2) - would play pretty nice too I guess you're right, changed
  8. 01:54:659 (5,6,7) - fix this pattern? to a triangle like this maybe? http://puu.sh/hVTXF/b1fdb69b34.jpg It's fine like that
  9. 02:05:802 (7) - move a bit to the left to get a nicer triangle here 02:04:431 (2,3,7) - then you need to move the next slider too, but that shouldnt be a problem should it ;) Alright changed
  10. 02:26:202 (2) - stack? with 02:25:259 (4) - yep
  11. 02:31:174 (8,1,2,3,4,5,6) - The patterns here doesnt really look so good D: try something like this: http://puu.sh/hVUdw/78afbe0fdb.jpg changed
  12. 02:44:888 (8) - dont overlap with 02:43:945 (2) - I think it's okay, (2) is long gone and that would mess all my pattern for praticly nothing
  13. 02:47:974 (2) - Move a bit down on this, its kinda close to the (7) Changed a bit
  14. 03:04:088 (6,1,2,3) - Triangle alittle bit off Fixed
  15. 03:29:888 - could fit with a note here, would fit the solo if you listen to the guitar :D I think it's fine, would fit but surely overmapped as well
  16. 03:30:231 - same here ^ ^
  17. 03:46:859 (1,2,4,6,7) - triangle a bit off again D:
  18. 04:03:745 (5) - move a bit up to correct the triangle (I am upsessed with triangles DDDDD:) Fixed
  19. 05:27:916 (7,8,1) - Triangle :D fixed
  20. 05:33:059 (5,6) - Ctrl+G Changed

Pretty good map here, was hard to find much here D: oh well, Ill give you a star too <3 since Demetori is luv and this map seems so fun to play :D shame I cant play at night ;w;
Thanks for the mod and star! (and maybe the hitsounding if you accept)
-Sh1n1-


[Flower-Viewing Party]

  1. 00:21:231 (1,2,3,4) - wth, really weird imo
  2. 00:36:916 (4) - This note is not necessary
  3. 00:57:402 (3,4,5) - change to one slider
  4. 01:29:031 (4) - 01:29:716 (2) - 01:30:402 (6) - delete these notes :3
  5. 01:35:888 (5) - This note is more necessary at 01:35:716 -
  6. 04:14:288 (2) - delete
  7. omg reduce some triplets please u.u
Sorry for short mod but the most important thing that you should change on your map are your triplets D: Good Luck, hope to help you
Topic Starter
Alheak

-Sh1n1- wrote:



[Flower-Viewing Party]

  1. 00:21:231 (1,2,3,4) - wth, really weird imo Yeah but it doesn't play so bad so idk
  2. 00:36:916 (4) - This note is not necessary Removed
  3. 00:57:402 (3,4,5) - change to one slider I think it's fine, not changed
  4. 01:29:031 (4) - 01:29:716 (2) - 01:30:402 (6) - delete these notes :3 Yep removed
  5. 01:35:888 (5) - This note is more necessary at 01:35:716 - Changed
  6. 04:14:288 (2) - delete got it lel
  7. omg reduce some triplets please u.u yeah i'll see what i can do about that
Sorry for short mod but the most important thing that you should change on your map are your triplets D: Good Luck, hope to help you

Alright thanks a lot for your feedback, this diff is probably gonna RIP but this will help me not fucking up again, so i'm grateful for that.
Incise
I only have one problem, my opinion.
00:43:688 (3,4,5,6,7) - I feel this is a area people may easily break combo, cus sum might misread it. Either add some slower type sliders, or somthing that aswell flows to the map. Just my opinion. and gl! :D
Kihhou

I tend to give object placement options for almost everything so you can ignore them, do a variation of them, or copy them exactly as is, but please consider my points regardless of placement suggestions o3o

[Flower-Viewing Party]

  • 00:17:802 (4) - ctrl G? i think it would fit very well with 00:17:288 (2) - for a sort of repeating jump pattern kind of flow. at the same time, the jump and angle to 00:18:145 (1) - isnt as strong so the (1) slider isnt emphasized as much as before, which i think would make it better since you didnt add a finish there like 00:16:774 (1) - 00:19:516 (1) - . so two birds with one stone ? :D
  1. 00:30:488 (5,1,2,3) - uhhh this is pretty hard to read mostly because its so clumpy there without a pattern that i can see and partially because the long reverse slider doesnt set up for such a drastic change into 1/4ths o-o buuuut thats not too important if its read well. soooo maybe you could move it out of that little spot like so?
  2. 00:37:859 (2) - hidden reverse arrow at the tail. almost certain this is unrankable o-o if you want to keep similar flow, maybe try something like this
  3. 00:43:688 (3,4,5,6,7) - mmm there really isnt a reason for these 1/8ths! theyre kinda way too crazy lol theres barely even 1/4ths here. not only that but starting at 00:43:859 - is a triplet so those beats are completely missed o-o consider using a rhythm like this?
  4. 02:55:345 (3,4) - imo this would play better if you ctrl G these two and then ctrl G them individually for smoother transitions according to the slider shapes. the (4) slider could also set up with the downward motion onto 02:56:031 (1) - . try it out!
  5. 03:04:259 (1,2) - this plays a bit awkwardly for me. try ctrl G for these two? the transition between 03:04:088 (6,1) - will have a sharper angle to break rotation and better emphasize 03:04:259 (1) - which is like the "start" of the new section of the dingdingding parts if you know what i mean LOL i think its a xylophone? anyways it would be similar to what you did so nicely at 03:02:202 (4,5) -. another thing is that i noticed youre trying to lead your sliders with the note before so you might want to move 03:04:431 (2) - too lol. ALL IN ALL!! try something like this and see if oyu like it heh
  6. 03:57:402 (3) - this part could be made to fit the music better. 03:56:888 (2,3) - these two notes play very similarly but its very different in the music. (3) is much more powerful, and the start of the new section in the new measure is at the reverse arrow or tail. consider this rhythm and placement instead?
  7. 04:01:859 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - i can play this map perfectly fine but i have a lot trouble reading this part if i dont remember the rhythm in the music. 100s everywhere orz. please consider adding NCs to 04:03:231 - 04:05:974 - so the different rhythms are at least sectioned in terms of NC o-o iiiiiim not sure if thatll completely fix it though because its stuck in my head now and i memorized it lol
  8. 04:08:716 (3,4) - this only an opinion!: i think itd be better aesthetically if this was the mirrored pattern of 04:07:345 (1,2) - . of course this is just what i would prefer and if you dislike it, really, just forget this point lol. i just wanted to make sure this option was properly considered~ c:
  9. 04:58:945 (3,4,5,1) - this smooth flow of circles doesnt really sit well with me.. it feels a bit out of place o-o all the other circle patterns in this part of the music is mapped with this.. jumpy/edgy feel? if that makes any sense. and its great! it fits well in those parts! but this part plays very differently to me and is lacking. maybe consider a pattern like this instead
  10. 05:51:059 (1,2) - this kills the soul and spirit of players ;-; a bit out of the blue and harder to hit since its after a slider like that, especially at the end of the map to kill the FCs. i am guilty of trying this once in my map. i wish i could remove it lol
  11. 01:05:802 (7) - NC for better representation of change in music and pattern?
  12. 01:38:545 (4) - NC for clearer patterns?
  13. 01:48:488 (4) - should remove NC here imo. notes are still part of the previous musical section with no change in rhythm
  14. 02:10:774 (6) - this NC is highly based off preference. it doesnt matter too much but i would NC here for the slight change in music as it gets a bit more intense
  15. 02:33:574 (1) - ^ same here
  16. 02:37:516 (3) - NC? cuz this is the same rhythm as 01:20:716 - and that has an NC. soo uh one or the other please make these two consistent o3o
  17. 02:42:316 (1,1,2,1,2,1,2) - errr these are a bit strange since the NCs are on red ticks and this poor guy 02:42:316 (1) - is just all alone. :c i know youre NCing off pattern but i think this still works, just a bit more cleanly
  18. 03:17:288 (7) - NC for clearer patterns?
  19. 03:21:916 (1) - NC? you did a double measure NC here when the only ones i could find so far are from slow sections and this is very much not a slow section heh
  20. 03:28:602 (1) - NC for clearer patterns?
  21. 03:43:688 (3) - NC? im not sure why you switched into double measure NCs.. 2 measures after the section in the music starts lol its also not a slow parttt
  22. 03:46:602 (4) - ^
  23. 03:52:088 (4) - ^
  24. 03:54:831 (5) - ^ and if youre worried about it b/c there arent enough notes in the combo, i would say NC consistency is more important o-o
  25. 03:57:574 - ^ just gave the time stamp in case you did the change mentioned up there somewhere o3o
  26. 04:31:859 (6,1) - swap NC? this is where the pattern and measure sorta starts
  27. 04:33:745 (1,2) - swap NC? 04:33:745 (1) - still feels like its part of the previous section in the music
  28. 04:39:574 (3) - remove NC? this one doesnt seem too important as it isnt much of a jump pattern by 2s. you also havent done these kinds of NCs in previous choruses... i dont think o-o
  29. 04:54:659 (1) - i would personally NC this for the increasing intensity but thats just me! this suggestion pretty much doesnt matter at all! l0l
  30. 04:56:031 (1) - NC to mark kind of a sudden SV change?
  31. 05:04:431 (1) - remove NC? again, this isnt much of a jump pattern thing and its a bit inconsistent with the previous parts of this section of music
  32. 05:18:659 - mmmm from this point onwards i would follow a regular 1 NC per measure pattern only o-o since you havent done any special NCs for patterns like this on the similar section of music in the beginning if ya know what i meannn.. and there isnt anything special in the music either :/ your NCs here are kinda all over the place with NCs for 2 note patterns 05:04:431 - .. like once in the whole section orrrr double measure NCs 05:28:259 - ,,,,,,, aaaa
  33. 00:21:059 - clap?
  34. 03:53:288 - are you sure you want to map over the clap here? its the only missed clap you have.. maybe a 1/2 slider and a note added at 03:53:459 - would be better
and thats all! c: umm.. overall, it was a really fun map to play! really cool!

imo, it just needs some cleaning up, not only NCs but also some notes that are half touching sliders. like baaaaarely touching em but still touching like 01:13:516 (2,3) - . it seems kinda messy like that but its not too important right now and i didnt want to fill up the mod post with "EY MOVE THIS 2 CM!"

this map is popular in the strawberry mousse lol ok bye!
Topic Starter
Alheak

HaloMaster96 wrote:

I only have one problem, my opinion.
00:43:688 (3,4,5,6,7) - I feel this is a area people may easily break combo, cus sum might misread it. Either add some slower type sliders, or somthing that aswell flows to the map. Just my opinion. and gl! :D
Thanks for the feedback, this sure is a little tricky to read but it plays nicely if done right. Just play it like a regular 5-notes stream.

In my opinion, flow-wise it's good so unless you have a counter-argument for that I'm not changing this part.
Topic Starter
Alheak

Kihhou wrote:


I tend to give object placement options for almost everything so you can ignore them, do a variation of them, or copy them exactly as is, but please consider my points regardless of placement suggestions o3o

[Flower-Viewing Party]

  • 00:17:802 (4) - ctrl G? i think it would fit very well with 00:17:288 (2) - for a sort of repeating jump pattern kind of flow. at the same time, the jump and angle to 00:18:145 (1) - isnt as strong so the (1) slider isnt emphasized as much as before, which i think would make it better since you didnt add a finish there like 00:16:774 (1) - 00:19:516 (1) - . so two birds with one stone ? :D Good point, changed
  1. 00:30:488 (5,1,2,3) - uhhh this is pretty hard to read mostly because its so clumpy there without a pattern that i can see and partially because the long reverse slider doesnt set up for such a drastic change into 1/4ths o-o buuuut thats not too important if its read well. soooo maybe you could move it out of that little spot like so? This is actually a part that I knew didn't played well but had no real idea why, your suggestion seems good so I'm changing this into something along those lines
  2. 00:37:859 (2) - hidden reverse arrow at the tail. almost certain this is unrankable o-o if you want to keep similar flow, maybe try something like this
    rip, changed in another way tho
  3. 00:43:688 (3,4,5,6,7) - mmm there really isnt a reason for these 1/8ths! theyre kinda way too crazy lol theres barely even 1/4ths here. not only that but starting at 00:43:859 - is a triplet so those beats are completely missed o-o consider using a rhythm like this?
    After very carefully re-listening you're right, dam i got tricked. welp rip this too then, i liked it tho, im changing it into something like you suggested
  4. 02:55:345 (3,4) - imo this would play better if you ctrl G these two and then ctrl G them individually for smoother transitions according to the slider shapes. the (4) slider could also set up with the downward motion onto 02:56:031 (1) - . try it out! it does indeed play better, changed
  5. 03:04:259 (1,2) - this plays a bit awkwardly for me. try ctrl G for these two? the transition between 03:04:088 (6,1) - will have a sharper angle to break rotation and better emphasize 03:04:259 (1) - which is like the "start" of the new section of the dingdingding parts if you know what i mean LOL i think its a xylophone? anyways it would be similar to what you did so nicely at 03:02:202 (4,5) -. another thing is that i noticed youre trying to lead your sliders with the note before so you might want to move 03:04:431 (2) - too lol. ALL IN ALL!! try something like this and see if oyu like it heh
    Lel I actually came up with the same thing when trying to work out a solution for this problem without breaking what I had in mind, changed
  6. 03:57:402 (3) - this part could be made to fit the music better. 03:56:888 (2,3) - these two notes play very similarly but its very different in the music. (3) is much more powerful, and the start of the new section in the new measure is at the reverse arrow or tail. consider this rhythm and placement instead? true, i wasn't totally satisfied with this so changed
  7. 04:01:859 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - i can play this map perfectly fine but i have a lot trouble reading this part if i dont remember the rhythm in the music. 100s everywhere orz. please consider adding NCs to 04:03:231 - 04:05:974 - so the different rhythms are at least sectioned in terms of NC o-o iiiiiim not sure if thatll completely fix it though because its stuck in my head now and i memorized it lol heh I see I just applied some NCs
  8. 04:08:716 (3,4) - this only an opinion!: i think itd be better aesthetically if this was the mirrored pattern of 04:07:345 (1,2) - . of course this is just what i would prefer and if you dislike it, really, just forget this point lol. i just wanted to make sure this option was properly considered~ c: good suggestion, changed
  9. 04:58:945 (3,4,5,1) - this smooth flow of circles doesnt really sit well with me.. it feels a bit out of place o-o all the other circle patterns in this part of the music is mapped with this.. jumpy/edgy feel? if that makes any sense. and its great! it fits well in those parts! but this part plays very differently to me and is lacking. maybe consider a pattern like this instead I actually just ctrl+g (4) and (5)
  10. 05:51:059 (1,2) - this kills the soul and spirit of players ;-; a bit out of the blue and harder to hit since its after a slider like that, especially at the end of the map to kill the FCs. i am guilty of trying this once in my map. i wish i could remove it lol it actually was a repeat slider before so people could at least not completely drop the combo but people suggested me doing a whole triplet, I think this is a good compromise and I like it. I'm keeping it for now but if people keep wanting me dead for this i'll consider removing it or at least keep a repeating slider
  11. 01:05:802 (7) - NC for better representation of change in music and pattern? Actually I changed the last three notes into kick + circle with jumps to better emphasize the guitar begining to play, I'm not adding NC tho
  12. 01:38:545 (4) - NC for clearer patterns? Added here
  13. 01:48:488 (4) - should remove NC here imo. notes are still part of the previous musical section with no change in rhythm Oh ye indeed, removed
  14. 02:10:774 (6) - this NC is highly based off preference. it doesnt matter too much but i would NC here for the slight change in music as it gets a bit more intense I guess it'd help players pay more attention to them and the fact that they're not 1/4 too, so added
  15. 02:33:574 (1) - ^ same here Not added here tho
  16. 02:37:516 (3) - NC? cuz this is the same rhythm as 01:20:716 - and that has an NC. soo uh one or the other please make these two consistent o3o oh yea added
  17. 02:42:316 (1,1,2,1,2,1,2) - errr these are a bit strange since the NCs are on red ticks and this poor guy 02:42:316 (1) - is just all alone. :c i know youre NCing off pattern but i think this still works, just a bit more cleanly this is the only pattern that has a circle here because of the finish, I wanted to point this out so that's why there's a NC alone here, not changed
  18. 03:17:288 (7) - NC for clearer patterns? added
  19. 03:21:916 (1) - NC? you did a double measure NC here when the only ones i could find so far are from slow sections and this is very much not a slow section heh added
  20. 03:28:602 (1) - NC for clearer patterns? I think it's fine, not added
  21. 03:43:688 (3) - NC? im not sure why you switched into double measure NCs.. 2 measures after the section in the music starts lol its also not a slow parttt changed like earlier
  22. 03:46:602 (4) - ^ ^
  23. 03:52:088 (4) - ^ ^
  24. 03:54:831 (5) - ^ and if youre worried about it b/c there arent enough notes in the combo, i would say NC consistency is more important o-o ^
  25. 03:57:574 - ^ just gave the time stamp in case you did the change mentioned up there somewhere o3o ^
  26. 04:31:859 (6,1) - swap NC? this is where the pattern and measure sorta starts yep indeed changed
  27. 04:33:745 (1,2) - swap NC? 04:33:745 (1) - still feels like its part of the previous section in the music changed
  28. 04:39:574 (3) - remove NC? this one doesnt seem too important as it isnt much of a jump pattern by 2s. you also havent done these kinds of NCs in previous choruses... i dont think o-o
  29. 04:54:659 (1) - i would personally NC this for the increasing intensity but thats just me! this suggestion pretty much doesnt matter at all! l0l
  30. 04:56:031 (1) - NC to mark kind of a sudden SV change?
  31. 05:04:431 (1) - remove NC? again, this isnt much of a jump pattern thing and its a bit inconsistent with the previous parts of this section of music I wanted to emphasize the "one-two one two" feel of this part, if that makes any sense
  32. 05:18:659 - mmmm from this point onwards i would follow a regular 1 NC per measure pattern only o-o since you havent done any special NCs for patterns like this on the similar section of music in the beginning if ya know what i meannn.. and there isnt anything special in the music either :/ your NCs here are kinda all over the place with NCs for 2 note patterns 05:04:431 - .. like once in the whole section orrrr double measure NCs 05:28:259 - ,,,,,,, aaaa aaaa indeed, idk what to do, part of me agree but I want to keep it like that
  33. 00:21:059 - clap? I'll see this with Keada later
  34. 03:53:288 - are you sure you want to map over the clap here? its the only missed clap you have.. maybe a 1/2 slider and a note added at 03:53:459 - would be better EDIT: i cant read >< alright changed this
and thats all! c: umm.. overall, it was a really fun map to play! really cool! thanks :3

imo, it just needs some cleaning up, not only NCs but also some notes that are half touching sliders. like baaaaarely touching em but still touching like 01:13:516 (2,3) - . it seems kinda messy like that but its not too important right now and i didnt want to fill up the mod post with "EY MOVE THIS 2 CM!" lel okay imma tracking em now

this map is popular in the strawberry mousse lol ok bye! oo nice : D thanks o/
also changed the part you PMd me
Incise

Alheak wrote:

HaloMaster96 wrote:

I only have one problem, my opinion.
00:43:688 (3,4,5,6,7) - I feel this is a area people may easily break combo, cus sum might misread it. Either add some slower type sliders, or somthing that aswell flows to the map. Just my opinion. and gl! :D
Thanks for the feedback, this sure is a little tricky to read but it plays nicely if done right. Just play it like a regular 5-notes stream.

In my opinion, flow-wise it's good so unless you have a counter-argument for that I'm not changing this part.
Yet you said you werent gonna chaange it but you change to to a revers slider -_-, I don't really have a counter arg to what you said, like I said opinion, but I feel if it wasnt like the 5 slider pattern it would be just as easy to flow if there was a stream, and plus with those tricky sliders, come very easy slider break's.
Topic Starter
Alheak

HaloMaster96 wrote:

Yet you said you werent gonna chaange it but you change to to a revers slider -_-, I don't really have a counter arg to what you said, like I said opinion, but I feel if it wasnt like the 5 slider pattern it would be just as easy to flow if there was a stream, and plus with those tricky sliders, come very easy slider break's.
Yeah I finally changed it because Kihhou's mod had a valid point concerning it, which was that it was overmapped, and I can't really argue with this.

I agree it'd flow the same if it were just a simple 5-notes stream, but it sounded like the notes were actually 1/8th so i wanted to map it this way, with the short sliders. Maybe it would have needed some finer tunings to make it less likely to break the combo, but even if tricky it's not a bad pattern. I always try to make my maps as easy to read as I can but sometimes I might put in some tricky bits because they play well if read properly and make the map less boring.
jonathanlfj
[General]
I recommend you use the mp3 and timing in my map, since the original song is know to have some weird timing issues at rather random places.

[Flower-Viewing Party]
00:20:888 (5,1) - bring these a bit closer, the distance threw me off since this is the first occurrence
00:29:631 (2,3) - no partial stack here?
00:55:174 - perhaps a circle or a triplet starting here to complement the guitars
01:05:973 (8,9) - ctrl+g flows better imo
01:08:545 (1) - the correctly way to NC here in conjunction with the music would be this: 01:14:716 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - NC group these in 3s (123 123)
01:19:516 (1) - NC pattern: 01:27:488 (3,4) - should be 1/6 snap
01:27:745 (1,1) - use the same combo for this
01:49:516 (1,1,1) - same here
02:06:316 - add a slider here to connect the two sections better, the pause feels really awkward to play
02:22:431 (1,1,1) - one combo
02:33:745 (9) - try a 1/4 slider here (do bring it closer so the next pattern is not difficult to aim)
02:36:316 (1) - NC restructure: 02:42:316 (1) - ^ 02:48:488 (4) - NC to keep consistency with the previous sections
02:53:459 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - group these in 3s
03:18:316 (1,2,3) - there is not enough momentum in the patterns themselves which is making the flow really jagged, try increased the spacing within each triplet: 03:37:688 (1) - finish
04:07:345 (1) - change the default sample to soft and use drum additions in this section, this way you don't get the unfitting drum ticks on the sliders
04:10:088 (3) - NC
04:12:316 (2) - NC here and remove NC on 04:12:574 (1)
04:32:716 (8,9,1) - this part plays really confusing, the 1/2 gap has a shorter spacing than the 1/4 gap...you might want to reposition this somewhere else
04:39:231 (1) - remove NC
05:03:059 (4,5,1) - quite a random anti jump if you ask me, use normal spaced jump here would fit the music better
05:04:774 (1) - remove NC and place it on 05:04:945 (2)
05:07:516 (8) - remove the clap, doesnt fit the music here
05:15:916 (1) - not sure why you used a stream here, the 1/4 don't appear until 05:16:430 (7) which is ideally where you should start it
05:51:059 (1,2) - give this a little more spacing, i overshot the last circle due to the speed of my spin xD

the map is pretty nicely done, but the NC is a little random at times, so get a few more mods and call me back after
Topic Starter
Alheak

jonathanlfj wrote:

[General]
I recommend you use the mp3 and timing in my map, since the original song is know to have some weird timing issues at rather random places. It seemed fine, but I'll trust you

[Flower-Viewing Party]
00:20:888 (5,1) - bring these a bit closer, the distance threw me off since this is the first occurrence alright
00:29:631 (2,3) - no partial stack here? indeed, changed
00:55:174 - perhaps a circle or a triplet starting here to complement the guitars I agree it feels like something is lacking here, but I just made the slider repeat instead
01:05:973 (8,9) - ctrl+g flows better imo yep
01:08:545 (1) - the correctly way to NC here in conjunction with the music would be this: changed
01:14:716 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - NC group these in 3s (123 123) I prefer it this way
01:19:516 (1) - NC pattern: changed
01:27:488 (3,4) - should be 1/6 snap indeed
01:27:745 (1,1) - use the same combo for this I guess that only one NC is enoguh to mark the change in rhythm, but I think this would be more fun in tag coop this way
01:49:516 (1,1,1) - same here ^
02:06:316 - add a slider here to connect the two sections better, the pause feels really awkward to play changed in another way
02:22:431 (1,1,1) - one combo ^
02:33:745 (9) - try a 1/4 slider here (do bring it closer so the next pattern is not difficult to aim) ok i like the idea and i think i did something interesting here
02:36:316 (1) - NC restructure: changed
02:42:316 (1) - ^ ^
02:48:488 (4) - NC to keep consistency with the previous sections alright
02:53:459 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - group these in 3s wanna keep this
03:18:316 (1,2,3) - there is not enough momentum in the patterns themselves which is making the flow really jagged, try increased the spacing within each triplet: changed
03:37:688 (1) - finish added
04:07:345 (1) - change the default sample to soft and use drum additions in this section, this way you don't get the unfitting drum ticks on the sliders changed in another way since that would add soft hitsounds
04:10:088 (3) - NC added
04:12:316 (2) - NC here and remove NC on 04:12:574 (1) Added but instead of removing the other I'll leave it for the same reasons as earlier
04:32:716 (8,9,1) - this part plays really confusing, the 1/2 gap has a shorter spacing than the 1/4 gap...you might want to reposition this somewhere else good point, changed
04:39:231 (1) - remove NC here and the one just after as well
05:03:059 (4,5,1) - quite a random anti jump if you ask me, use normal spaced jump here would fit the music better changed
05:04:774 (1) - remove NC and place it on 05:04:945 (2) changed
05:07:516 (8) - remove the clap, doesnt fit the music here woops
05:15:916 (1) - not sure why you used a stream here, the 1/4 don't appear until 05:16:430 (7) which is ideally where you should start it isn't the guitar 1/4 here? Im ready to change this if it isn't, but right now i think it's fine
05:51:059 (1,2) - give this a little more spacing, i overshot the last circle due to the speed of my spin xD alright just a bit

the map is pretty nicely done, but the NC is a little random at times, so get a few more mods and call me back after
alright thanks!
Incise
xD don't howto get irc chat history, so here's a screen shot of my mod lol. http://gyazo.com/7db3c55114e07684f3fd500bf79b14f0
Great map, and gl on bubble and qualify!
neonat
Flower-Viewing Party

00:21:422 (2,3,1,2) - flip? For more emphasis there
00:30:508 (5,1) - don't know why you stack these when the rest either jump or at least still spaced away with this same tune
00:39:936 (5,1) - ^ and whistle on start of 00:40:108 (1)
02:39:594 (1,2) - have them stacked instead?
05:15:936 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - use 1/2 beats till 05:16:279 instead? That's how the guitar feels imo
Topic Starter
Alheak

neonat wrote:

Flower-Viewing Party

00:21:422 (2,3,1,2) - flip? For more emphasis there I don't think it needs more emphasis, plus it'll be a bit awkward to play
00:30:508 (5,1) - don't know why you stack these when the rest either jump or at least still spaced away with this same tune Yeah this was a bit awkward to play, changed
00:39:936 (5,1) - ^ and whistle on start of 00:40:108 (1) This is fine here tho, but added the whistle
02:39:594 (1,2) - have them stacked instead? changed
05:15:936 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - use 1/2 beats till 05:16:279 instead? That's how the guitar feels imo For me the guitar feels more like 1/4, I guess I could do kick sliders instead but this just plays fine
Ameth Rianno
I think the diff name should be "Perfect Ink-Black Cherry Blossom"/"Repository of Hirokawa"/"Butterfly Delusion"/"Law of Mortality". Flower Party viewing is for Prismriver Sisters, not Yuyuko Saigyouji. Check this: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_C ... ds/Stage_6

I hope this map get approved!
Topic Starter
Alheak
Naming the diff after one of the spell cards isn't a bad idea, I'll consider this.

I like the current name though, and I don't see where it'd be more appropriate for the Prismriver Sisters than for Yuyuko. I think it's the "party" bit but flower-viewing parties are more of something I'd see Yuyuko participate in. I can understand that it'd be a bit inappropriate for the track though.

Thanks for the help
Lethargy
Yo, IRC mod.

Click this if you are stupid
19:36 Lethargy: can you mod?
19:36 Alheak: i guess
19:36 Alheak: m4m?
19:36 Lethargy: could be
19:37 Alheak: what do you need help with?
19:37 Lethargy: its not really help
19:37 Lethargy: we just need mods, to polish the map
19:38 Alheak: it was a way of speaking lol
19:38 Alheak: just /np the map
19:38 Lethargy: yea
19:38 Lethargy: wait
19:38 *Lethargy is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/770940 yanaginagi - Koibumi]
19:46 Alheak: alright
19:46 Alheak: ill do a mod
19:46 Lethargy: nice
19:46 Lethargy: btw
19:46 Lethargy: why do you hate me
19:46 Alheak: do i?
19:46 Alheak: do i sound that way
19:46 Alheak: lol
19:46 Lethargy: you do
19:46 Alheak: welp
19:47 Alheak: dont worry
19:47 Alheak: i dont hate you
19:47 Lethargy: i was asking
19:47 Lethargy: just in case
19:47 Alheak: alright
19:47 Alheak: my map then
19:47 *Alheak is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/705038 Demetori - Yuuga ni Sakase, Sumizome no Sakura ~ Border of Life]
19:48 Alheak: mod isn't mandatory
19:48 Lethargy: ill do a mod
19:48 Lethargy: need kds
19:48 Alheak: but id like you at like to play it and give it your general opinion of it
19:48 Alheak: at least
19:48 Lethargy: so just testplay?
19:48 Alheak: alright
19:48 Alheak: at least yes
19:49 Alheak: testplay + feedback
19:54 Lethargy: im not gonna lie to you now
19:54 Alheak: lmao
19:54 Lethargy: i quit playing osu soem time ago cuz most of the maps i played were boring
19:55 Lethargy: this one was pretty fun to play
19:55 Alheak: well thanks
19:55 Alheak: do you play mouse?
19:55 Lethargy: no
19:55 Lethargy: im tablet player
19:55 Lethargy: im just too lazy to take out my tablet
19:55 Lethargy: so this was a mouse play :D
19:55 Alheak: oh okay i see
19:55 Lethargy: why?
19:56 Alheak: your movements were wery mouseplayer-like
19:56 Lethargy: oh
19:56 Lethargy: true
19:56 Alheak: snappy but kinda awkward
19:56 Lethargy: lmao
19:56 Lethargy: yea
19:56 Lethargy: i cant really play withi tablet anymore
19:56 Lethargy: as my hand hurts from some reason when i play with it
19:57 Alheak: muscles pain or something RSI-like?
19:59 Alheak: brb
20:04 Lethargy: probably
20:04 Lethargy: it just hurts
20:15 Alheak: welp
20:15 Alheak: mouse isnt so bad when you get used to it
20:16 Lethargy: i guess
20:19 Alheak: quick question about your map
20:19 Lethargy: sure
20:20 Alheak: even though it's only like 1.9 stars
20:20 Alheak: what guidelines did you follow?
20:20 Alheak: insane's?
20:20 Lethargy: hard
20:21 Alheak: alright
20:21 Lethargy: so no spacing restriction etc
20:21 Lethargy: its more like
20:21 Lethargy: kind of free diff
20:21 Lethargy: as it is low bpm
20:21 Alheak: yeah i see
20:26 Lethargy: ok
20:26 Lethargy: so lets do it
20:26 Lethargy: this was quite awkward to play 00:01:708 (1,2) -
20:27 Alheak: alright
20:32 Lethargy: lets púlay it again
20:34 Lethargy: this slidershape is pretty awkward 00:29:651 (2) -
20:34 Lethargy: how about ctrl g this 00:32:565 (1) -
20:34 Lethargy: this is also pretty akwards 00:35:136 (2) -
20:35 Lethargy: 00:42:679 (7) - would recommend either stacking this
20:35 Lethargy: or moving it a bit further
20:36 Lethargy: http://puu.sh/kdyg0/25771a1ea2.jpg
20:36 Lethargy: 00:45:594 (1) -
20:37 Lethargy: maybe this way it is slightly better?
20:38 Alheak: you mean more curved?
20:38 Lethargy: more curved
20:38 Lethargy: and the first red point further from the circle
20:38 Alheak: i see
20:38 Alheak: alright
20:39 Lethargy: same here 00:48:336 (1) -
20:39 Lethargy: this slider definitely deserves some really nice guitar riff shape 00:53:822 (1) -
20:39 Lethargy: this also like before 00:56:565 (1) -
20:39 Lethargy: increase spacing here 01:05:736 (6,7) -
20:40 Lethargy: also the shape her 01:15:765 (1) -
20:40 Lethargy: this is quite awkward shape
20:40 Lethargy: 01:20:394 (3) -
20:40 Lethargy: this one is quite hard to read 01:33:079 (3) -
20:40 Lethargy: you decide what to do with it
20:41 Lethargy: maybe put these five a bit more up 01:38:565 (1,2,3,4,5) -
20:41 Lethargy: =
20:41 Lethargy: increase a bit spacing between 01:38:479 (3,1) -
20:42 Lethargy: consider this shape? 01:44:565 (1) - http://puu.sh/kdyD9/e1f490a65f.jpg
20:43 Lethargy: 02:24:336 (1) - maybe a bit more curved? http://puu.sh/kdyIH/5f93055859.jpg
20:43 Lethargy: this shape, just like before 02:27:079 (1) -
20:43 Lethargy: dude, are you ignoring me?
20:44 Alheak: nope im just correcting as you are modding
20:44 Alheak: you're pretty fast
20:44 Lethargy: well
20:44 Lethargy: when i get in the mood
20:44 Lethargy: i do stuff quite quickly
20:45 Alheak: yea i see that lol
20:45 Alheak: i've changed most of it
20:46 Lethargy: maybe icnrease spacing here? 02:32:565 (1,2,3) -
20:46 Lethargy: shape again 02:38:051 (1) -
20:47 Lethargy: ;slightly more curved? 02:49:022 (1) - http://puu.sh/kdz0C/f2ac43c507.jpg
20:47 Lethargy: another awkward shapes
20:47 Lethargy: 02:53:136 (5) -
20:48 Lethargy: this is the problematic part 03:18:336 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -
20:49 Alheak: lmao
20:49 Lethargy: try 03:20:051 (1,2,3,4) -
20:49 Lethargy: kickback here instead
20:49 Lethargy: and here could be some sliderstream 03:20:394 (1,2,3,4) -
20:49 Lethargy: lmao jk
20:49 Lethargy: just kicksliders could work
20:50 Lethargy: but if you want to be experimental then go for sliderstream
20:50 Lethargy: and this definitely needs more spacing 03:20:651 (4,1) -
20:51 Alheak: it's 1/4 though
20:51 Lethargy: yea
20:51 Lethargy: some people do sliderstreams even though stuff is 1/4
20:51 Lethargy: and its ranked
20:52 Lethargy: 03:21:936 (1) - http://puu.sh/kdzl3/51ffd28ea1.jpg
20:52 Lethargy: also
20:52 Lethargy: i would say that
20:52 Alheak: are sliderstreams 1/8 sliders?
20:52 Lethargy: yea
20:52 Lethargy: but dont use them
20:52 Lethargy: the more intense guitar, the more curved slider
20:56 Lethargy: 03:23:479 (1) - this way http://puu.sh/kdzCZ/f0fef8574b.jpg
20:57 Lethargy: this could be a bit more curved 03:28:536 (5,6,7,8,9,1) -
20:57 Lethargy: like this http://puu.sh/kdzFx/eb6999e4af.jpg
20:57 Lethargy: same here 03:31:708 (1) - http://puu.sh/kdzHi/94d726ec6f.jpg
20:58 Lethargy: maybe this 03:32:908 (1) - http://puu.sh/kdzKk/a9e4e79a54.jpg
20:58 Lethargy: oh
20:58 Lethargy: that sucks
20:58 Lethargy: how about this http://puu.sh/kdzLu/619661ae9a.jpg
20:58 Lethargy: is it curved this way intentionally? 03:35:822 (1,2,3) -
20:59 Lethargy: d00d
21:00 Lethargy: d000000000000000000000000000d
21:00 Alheak: yes yes
21:01 Lethargy: cuz it was kind of awkward to play it
21:01 Alheak: well i think i was more interesting that just straight streams
21:01 Alheak: it was*
21:01 Lethargy: well
21:01 Lethargy: if you look at it
21:01 Lethargy: flown this way
21:01 Lethargy: it ends up as two doubles
21:02 Lethargy: cuz there is the jerky movement
21:02 Lethargy: when you do the transition from 2 to 3
21:02 Lethargy: also this part 03:37:451 (1,4) -
21:02 Lethargy: i would do it this way http://puu.sh/kdA5C/1caad89538.jpg
21:03 Lethargy: as the sound in the middle is different
21:03 Lethargy: and it confused the hell otu of me when i way testplaying it
21:04 Lethargy: anyway
21:04 Alheak: i see but it seems fine
21:04 Lethargy: well
21:04 Alheak: at least the way it plays
21:04 Lethargy: have you played it yourself?
21:05 Lethargy: 03:41:136 (1) - http://puu.sh/kdAeF/388a374d1f.jpg
21:05 Alheak: well of course
21:05 Lethargy: it wasnt really working for me
21:05 Lethargy: but if you want wanna do it
21:05 Lethargy: dont
21:05 Lethargy: its my opinion after all :D
21:06 Lethargy: 04:22:279 (1) - http://puu.sh/kdAmv/0cbed1a0bf.jpg
21:07 Lethargy: this slidershape isnt really pretty in my opinion at all 04:29:136 (1) -
21:07 Lethargy: and dont really know how to to make it better
21:07 Lethargy: try doing smth with it
21:08 Alheak: yea
21:08 Lethargy: increase spacing here a bit? 04:56:051 (5,6) -
21:09 Lethargy: 05:05:479 (3,4) - swap these two?
21:09 Lethargy: like this http://puu.sh/kdAA4/fb36163242.jpg
21:10 Lethargy: ok thats it
21:10 Lethargy: nice work again
21:11 Lethargy: gonna post the log, k?
21:12 Alheak: alright
21:12 Alheak: thanks for the help

Nice map d00d
pkhg
i clicked that ^

[General]


  • delete osbbb
  1. 00:14:222 (1,2) - ctrl+g them for placement, flows better imo
  2. 00:31:536 (5,6) - theres nothing on the taillsss, im against that
  3. 00:32:908 (3,4) - 4 is strong enough to emphasize it with moar spacing, the stack kills it
  4. 01:13:536 (2,3) - i dont like how this flows but meh
  5. 01:32:736 (2,3) - i dont like this kind of stacks
  6. 01:49:365 - y u ignored this, it even has a cymbal sound so pls
  7. 02:39:936 (2,3) - u know, also the overlap makes it worst
  8. 03:01:536 (1) - 03:16:279 (6) - dude thats c00L
  9. 03:16:879 - add notee
  10. 03:17:222 (6) - pls delete
  11. 03:20:651 (4,1) - slider > circle 1/4 jumps are fine but circle > slider are awkward to play, isnt even too spaced idk why i pointed out this
  12. 03:27:165 - add circlesss
  13. 03:28:194 - u were following the guitar in the prev section so its better if u do it here too aka add circle
  14. 03:37:365 - ^ same, theres a guitar sound here, also it helps to not leave that 3/4 gap which can cause a miss cuz spacing doesnt help too much to distinguish it
  15. 03:50:136 (3,6) - those are overmapped
  16. 05:05:308 (2,3,4,5) - the tailsss, y u do this
  17. 05:36:508 (5) - wheres the nc
  18. 05:40:708 (1,1) - make this one so players can get happy30'd
gl
Topic Starter
Alheak

pkhg wrote:

i clicked that ^

[General]


  • delete osbbb fukken osb
  1. 00:14:222 (1,2) - ctrl+g them for placement, flows better imo yep
  2. 00:31:536 (5,6) - theres nothing on the taillsss, im against that it's debatable, i think the guitar kinda suggests those kick sliders, so i'll keep them for now
  3. 00:32:908 (3,4) - 4 is strong enough to emphasize it with moar spacing, the stack kills it changed
  4. 01:13:536 (2,3) - i dont like how this flows but meh changed this part a bit
  5. 01:32:736 (2,3) - i dont like this kind of stacks i feel you but when read correctly it plays pretty well
  6. 01:49:365 - y u ignored this, it even has a cymbal sound so pls wow tru
  7. 02:39:936 (2,3) - u know, also the overlap makes it worst yes
  8. 03:01:536 (1) - 03:16:279 (6) - dude thats c00L thx
  9. 03:16:879 - add notee yes
  10. 03:17:222 (6) - pls delete dam you have good ears
  11. 03:20:651 (4,1) - slider > circle 1/4 jumps are fine but circle > slider are awkward to play, isnt even too spaced idk why i pointed out this redone this part since nobody liked it (not even me)
  12. 03:27:165 - add circlesss yes
  13. 03:28:194 - u were following the guitar in the prev section so its better if u do it here too aka add circle tru
  14. 03:37:365 - ^ same, theres a guitar sound here, also it helps to not leave that 3/4 gap which can cause a miss cuz spacing doesnt help too much to distinguish it changed this part
  15. 03:50:136 (3,6) - those are overmapped ill admit those drum beats are kinda thuds but they're here
  16. 05:05:308 (2,3,4,5) - the tailsss, y u do this same as earlier, they're strongly suggested imo
  17. 05:36:508 (5) - wheres the nc it escaped but i caught it
  18. 05:40:708 (1,1) - make this one so players can get happy30'd no please not again
gl
thanks for mod
LigerZero
Added in Tags name album this beatmap "Sinen ni Nozomu ga Gotoshi 如臨深遠 ~雨縒煙柳~"
jonathanlfj
just a small recheck no kd

[100%]
00:55:022 (6) - try two 1/4 sliders here
01:27:508 (3,1) - way too much spacing here, people will get 100 on the slider
02:42:336 (1,1,2,3) - combo group these into 2s, the random single NC feels really awkward
03:37:194 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - these are really hard to grasp rhythm wise, so you should shrink the distance a bit to make it easier aim wise
04:39:765 (5) - silence the end
05:15:936 (1) - the stream felt a little random, there are no constant 1/4s in the background
05:51:079 (1,2) - could use a little more spacing to emphasize the halt in music

let me know afterwards
Topic Starter
Alheak

jonathanlfj wrote:

just a small recheck no kd

[100%]
00:55:022 (6) - try two 1/4 sliders here wouldn't that be a bit overmapped? I do hear the guitar slide here but that doesn't seem enough to justify it, though the idea is great. i checked your map to see what has been done there and there was a stream, so I guess if yours got ranked with it that should be fine
01:27:508 (3,1) - way too much spacing here, people will get 100 on the slider changed
02:42:336 (1,1,2,3) - combo group these into 2s, the random single NC feels really awkward changed
03:37:194 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - these are really hard to grasp rhythm wise, so you should shrink the distance a bit to make it easier aim wise changed
04:39:765 (5) - silence the end done
05:15:936 (1) - the stream felt a little random, there are no constant 1/4s in the background I do agree that it feels a bit random, but the 1/4's are there (guitar shreds), changed for something more appropriate
05:51:079 (1,2) - could use a little more spacing to emphasize the halt in music I was reluctant at first since it's already tricky that those objects are placed just after the last spinner at the end of the song, but with slider leniency i think it should be okay

let me know afterwards
jonathanlfj
Good stuff
#1
Krfawy
#2
pishifat
2015-11-11 13:44 pishifat: are you using
2015-11-11 13:45 pishifat: the same mp3 as jonathan's map
2015-11-11 13:45 Alheak: yes
2015-11-11 13:45 pishifat: kgood
2015-11-11 13:54 pishifat: 02:32:822 (2) - 02:56:051 (1,2) -
2015-11-11 13:54 pishifat: are my complaints
2015-11-11 13:54 pishifat: do you need explanations
2015-11-11 13:55 Alheak: i guess i understand the first one
2015-11-11 13:55 Alheak: yeah maybe the second too
2015-11-11 13:55 pishifat: g
2015-11-11 13:56 pishifat: ran it through the fancy unrankable checking programs
2015-11-11 13:56 pishifat: realized i have some other diff of yours
2015-11-11 13:57 pishifat: flower-viewing party
2015-11-11 13:57 pishifat: when did that get there
2015-11-11 13:57 Alheak: all ded
2015-11-11 13:57 Alheak: i dont know
2015-11-11 14:00 Alheak: updated just now
2015-11-11 14:00 pishifat: any final words
2015-11-11 14:00 pishifat: before you burn
2015-11-11 14:01 Alheak: i like guy's too
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