lol no
wayyyyy too limiting
and a guideline would also be pointless cuz lets be homest. who follows those right? pfft
wayyyyy too limiting
and a guideline would also be pointless cuz lets be homest. who follows those right? pfft
UwotKert wrote:
In that case why not just make them circles without tails?monstrata wrote:
Not all these "short sliders" are mapped with the intention that you should hold them though...
When I map kicksliders, I prefer to think of them as just circles with a tail attached. They are very useful for creating short breaks in between stream sections of a map if you want to keep intensity without making the map too dense with 32+note streams.
That's exactly the situation where they shouldn't be used! Sliders are supposed to be held by definition
Kibbleru wrote:
lol no
wayyyyy too limiting
and a guideline would also be pointless cuz lets be homest. who follows those right? pfft
I agree ;=;captin1 wrote:
there's enough rules as is, don't need to restrict things further for no reason other than someone's opinion
there should not ever be a "this is the way you should map this because it's right" because you're not right, nobody is right. it's up to how the mapper wishes to interpret the song.
1/4 slider is NOT the same as a simple 1/2 circle, and lets be honest here. 1/4 sliders give an entirely different effect when compared to 1/2 circles, well obviously, because they are 1/4s. 1/4 sliders are MEANT to be used in 1/4 sections.Kert wrote:
In that case why not just make them circles without tails?monstrata wrote:
Not all these "short sliders" are mapped with the intention that you should hold them though...
When I map kicksliders, I prefer to think of them as just circles with a tail attached. They are very useful for creating short breaks in between stream sections of a map if you want to keep intensity without making the map too dense with 32+note streams.
That's exactly the situation where they shouldn't be used! Sliders are supposed to be held by definition
no one is going to put all 1/16 sliders lol (this is unrankable iirc) unless if youre willing to silence all the slider tails manually, lol.Kert wrote:
No one would follow guidelines that's the point.
How about you all stop with personal attacks? You saying it's only my opinion doesn't make this more valid.
And it IS overmapping, just to a smaller extent. How about emphasizing every beat and put 1/16 sliders instead of all objects?
Mapper: "It looks cool! Such epicness!"
And then the players get sliderbreaks and confusion because of this "art" that makes the map less playable...
Cherry Blossom made a good example of what should be discouraged.
Why haven't this brought up earlier? God knows. Maybe it wasn't that popular back then?
It was obvious from the beginning it's used to "emphasize" something so misunderstanding is not the problem herecaptin1 wrote:
not understanding why someone does something doesn't mean it's bad, just means there's a lack of understanding
Ranking process is supposed to be based on rules, otherwise one can get anything ranked.Liiraye wrote:
I have no comment on using 1/16, it feels excessive for most parts, so I believe the ranking process should adress that, not rules.
1/4 sliders however, or even some 1/8 sliders only meant to be clicked once do a great job in emphasizing strong notes without needing too much spacing.
You could always half/double/triple/quadruple/etc the BPM of the song too, in case you want 1/2, 1/1, 2/1, 4/1 or x/1 to be excessive too.Kert wrote:
You're saying 1/16 is bad and feels excessive and should be discouraged.. but 1/8 (sometimes) and 1/4 is fine.
I can say the same but a step lower - 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 is excessive and 1/2, 1/1 is fine.
How more valid is "banning" 1/16 and 1/8 and not banning 1/4?
Kert wrote:
It was obvious from the beginning it's used to "emphasize" something so misunderstanding is not the problem herecaptin1 wrote:
not understanding why someone does something doesn't mean it's bad, just means there's a lack of understandingRanking process is supposed to be based on rules, otherwise one can get anything ranked.Liiraye wrote:
I have no comment on using 1/16, it feels excessive for most parts, so I believe the ranking process should adress that, not rules.
1/4 sliders however, or even some 1/8 sliders only meant to be clicked once do a great job in emphasizing strong notes without needing too much spacing.
Also that's the problem here. You're saying 1/16 is bad and feels excessive and should be discouraged.. but 1/8 (sometimes) and 1/4 is fine.
I can say the same but a step lower - 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 is excessive and 1/2, 1/1 is fine.
How more valid is "banning" 1/16 and 1/8 and not banning 1/4?
The purpose of this rule is basically to formally address the situations where it disrupts gameplay. It's still a game, not a painting or whateverLiiraye wrote:
if it doesn't disrupt gameplay and fits really well I'm 100% for overmapping.
There are special cases yes, but compare the number of special cases to cases where these kick sliders have no disruption to gameplay. I don't have any hard numbers but I can imagine the ratio being very much in favor of the latter. Of course, it also depends on what people consider are "kicksliders that disrupt gameplay" but the subjectivity of this statement already makes calling it a rule a horrible idea. Rules have to be objective.Kert wrote:
The purpose of this rule is basically to formally address the situations where it disrupts gameplay. It's still a game, not a painting or whateverLiiraye wrote:
if it doesn't disrupt gameplay and fits really well I'm 100% for overmapping.
It may be better as a guideline if there's too many special cases by looking at the current definition, but guidelines aren't enforced a lot so
Then guidelines shouldn't be enforced if the mapper knows what he's doing. If you had this rule banning this way of mapping, said mappers wouldn't even be able to produce it. After all, if it disrupts gameplay BN's/QAT will get on it. If nobody thinks it does disrupt gameplay but you still do... well maybe the problem lies with you then? I still think having this as a rule would cause more harm than good.Kert wrote:
The purpose of this rule is basically to formally address the situations where it disrupts gameplay. It's still a game, not a painting or whateverLiiraye wrote:
if it doesn't disrupt gameplay and fits really well I'm 100% for overmapping.
It may be better as a guideline if there's too many special cases by looking at the current definition, but guidelines aren't enforced a lot so
I have to disagree with the examples you provided. They don't interfere with gameplay for me. What you are bringing up are just subjective gameplay elements that you think are "basically bad" but they may play fine or are even very enjoyable to others. You can't just list examples and say they will "always be bad" because labelling something as "good or bad" is assigning your opinionated and subjective quality onto them. They play bad to you, that doesn't mean they play bad to everyone, therefore you can't create an objective rule to define something that is subjective.Kert wrote:
Comparing to other sliders it's like... On normal sliders you click at the head and unclick at the tail and this is pretty synchronized to hitsounds
As far as I understood you're supposed to click this short as a circle so ... this leads to unclicking being before the slider actually ends -> you get a hitsound even when you actually didn't do anything at that point. It's very misleading
I'd compare this to clap hitsounds put on sliderticks (don't know if it's allowed now)
Kert wrote:
Some examples where this interferes gameplay and is basically bad
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/391228
00:41:383 (6) - http://puu.sh/koPA6/3269df2717.jpg
00:55:328 (2,3) - http://puu.sh/koPF2/8d184182c8.jpg
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/495633
02:18:234 (4,5) - , 00:57:392 (5,6) - They are even hitsounded as if they are circles?
03:43:339 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - Partly silenced sliders everything mixed
Comparing to other sliders it's like... On normal sliders you click at the head and unclick at the tail and this is pretty synchronized to hitsounds
As far as I understood you're supposed to click this short as a circle so ... this leads to unclicking being before the slider actually ends -> you get a hitsound even when you actually didn't do anything at that point. It's very misleading
I'd compare this to clap hitsounds put on sliderticks (don't know if it's allowed now)
Kloyd wrote:
i think how to use is crucial.
many guys who try that pattern without knowing 'how to use those properly' have made this situation imo.
There's just no open place for discussion afaik which can get enough attention on the problemYauxo wrote:
And after all, I mean, yea, maybe tell the BNs to be a bit more strict about bad Kickslider usage, but I dont see the point why we're going back and forth with that "kicksliders are bad i dont like them pls ban" and "no they not why you say dat" and "because they bad" and "but they not" ... you get the point.