I don't know if it's possible for me to give these an accurate ranking because maps like rainbow dash and senketsu no chikai are ar9. Should the reading aspect of them being ar9 and not 9.5+ affect how hard they are to aim?
Of course it affects the playability. But the plan is to split raw aim difficulty and reading difficulty into 2 different things.Khelly wrote:
I don't know if it's possible for me to give these an accurate ranking because maps like rainbow dash and senketsu no chikai are ar9. Should the reading aspect of them being ar9 and not 9.5+ affect how hard they are to aim?
1. Renard - Rainbow Dash Likes Girls (Stay Gay Pony Girl) (ztrot)
2. The Quick Brown Fox - The Big Black (Blue Dragon)
3. Black Hole - Pluto (7odoa)
4. Team Nekokan - Can't Defeat Airman (Blue Dragon)
5. JO*STARS ~TOMMY, Coda, JIN~ - JoJo Sono Chi no Kioku~end of THE WORLD~ (Atsuro)
6. Yousei Teikoku - Senketsu no Chikai (Saten)
7. Maffalda - pensamento tipico de esquerda caviar (Blue Dragon)
1. Renard - Rainbow Dash Likes Girls (Stay Gay Pony Girl) (ztrot)
2. Black Hole - Pluto (7odoa)
3. Team Nekokan - Can't Defeat Airman (Blue Dragon)
4. The Quick Brown Fox - The Big Black (Blue Dragon)
5. JO*STARS ~TOMMY, Coda, JIN~ - JoJo Sono Chi no Kioku~end of THE WORLD~ (Atsuro)
6. Yousei Teikoku - Senketsu no Chikai (Saten)
7. Maffalda - pensamento tipico de esquerda caviar (Blue Dragon)
Edit: I guess food for thought - Is a map with a largely uniform difficulty easier or harder than a map with a large difficulty spike?That largely depends. There are 2 ways ways I can think of to rate such maps correctly:
Letter rankings are irrelevant. You can get an A with non-trivial misses on most maps if you're an accurate player. Evaluation would likely have to be done piecewise with a nonlinear weighting for difficulty if we are to work under the assumption that uniform difficulty and easier difficulty with spikes are actually of 2 different difficulties despite mapping to the same average difficulty neighborhood.abraker wrote:
Edit: I guess food for thought - Is a map with a largely uniform difficulty easier or harder than a map with a large difficulty spike?That largely depends. There are 2 ways ways I can think of to rate such maps correctly:I have already tried doing it the 2nd way, and yielded results similar to this:
- 1) Separate ratings by how difficult it is to get the letter ranking
2) Average the maps' difficulty peaks based on a weighting system pp uses.
Score based then?chainpullz wrote:
Letter rankings are irrelevant.
Score isn't uniform across all maps.abraker wrote:
Score based then?chainpullz wrote:
Letter rankings are irrelevant.
Then it will have to be measured in terms of how hard it is to get to point t, where t is a point in time on the map. That means that my second approach by averaging weights is more reasonable.chainpullz wrote:
Score isn't uniform across all maps.
Let A be a long easy to aim section, and B a short difficulty spike. Is it just as easy to "get to the end of" AB as it is BA? Personally I think there is a subtle difference even in this simple unrealistic example. Better yet, consider ABC vs BAD where C and D are just arbitrary song endings and we are only talking about "getting to the end of" the A/B combinations. There are a lot of psychological triggers that are hard to really account for since they vary from person to person.abraker wrote:
Then it will have to be measured in terms of how hard it is to get to point t, where t is a point in time on the map. That means that my second approach by averaging weights is more reasonable.chainpullz wrote:
Score isn't uniform across all maps.
Quite right, in fact difficulty only accounts a perfect play. That is, it doesn't account random chokes. While I agree that method doesn't provide the complete picture, it's still better than what we can come up with, and be all means please come up with something better. The difficulty of a map is just an index, and that index can be interpreted as a probability to do poorly on a map. However, that conversion from difficulty rating to chance of doing poorly is very subjective and up to the player to decide. Difficulty makes a lot more sense when viewed from a collective of players instead of the individual. When viewed from a collective, we can universally agree on stuff such as which map is harder (this thread's point).chainpullz wrote:
There are a lot of psychological triggers that are hard to really account for since they vary from person to person.
Not quite. Star rating also takes streams and everything tap related too.B1rd wrote:
This is redundant. You can't measure the 'pure aim' value of maps because terms like 'aim' and 'reading' and 'speed' are all vague concepts, interconnected and without any clear definitions. If you want to measure the aiming difficult of maps minus 'reading' difficult and difficulty from hard patterns then all you need to do is look at the star rating.
Then just delete the streams. It doesn't take a genius to figure out if the star rating comes from jumps or streams.Kert wrote:
Not quite. Star rating also takes streams and everything tap related too.
Correct me in case I didn't understand the point of your post right
That and it does not take angles into account either (compare 400bpm square jumps with the circles touching each other to a 200bpm stream)Kert wrote:
Not quite. Star rating also takes streams and everything tap related too.B1rd wrote:
This is redundant. You can't measure the 'pure aim' value of maps because terms like 'aim' and 'reading' and 'speed' are all vague concepts, interconnected and without any clear definitions. If you want to measure the aiming difficult of maps minus 'reading' difficult and difficulty from hard patterns then all you need to do is look at the star rating.
Correct me in case I didn't understand the point of your post right
You can't tell if a heavy only-aim map is harder at aim than mediocre-aim-stream one by looking at star ratingsB1rd wrote:
Then just delete the streams. It doesn't take a genius to figure out if the star rating comes from jumps or streams.
The angle influence is considered to some extent in the last calculation I made btw.Momiji wrote:
That and it does not take angles into account either (compare 400bpm square jumps with the circles touching each other to a 200bpm stream)