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Poll 26: Should we remove scoreboards from qualified maps?

posted
Total Posts
118

Should we remove scoreboards from qualified beatmaps?

Yes
334
12.16%
No
634
23.08%
Keep them but don't reward performance points until ranked
1779
64.76%
Total votes: 2747
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Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Well
I meant it in the way: Why should players be "punished" (losing score) when the map passes the 7-days and thus is of high-quality
I know, it's a risk, but players shouldn't be "punished" IMO
Here I mean Not "Punished" as rewarded (probably wrong word choice tho ;w;)
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

baraatje123 wrote:

Well
I meant it in the way: Why should players be "punished" (losing score) when the map passes the 7-days and thus is of high-quality
I know, it's a risk, but players shouldn't be "punished" IMO
Here I mean Not "Punished" as rewarded (probably wrong word choice tho ;w;)
They aren't being punished for something they should be willing to lose in the first place. Playing for pp should not be on the forefront of a qualified player's mind. If we want people to evaluate qualified beatmaps closer and have a qualified section as it is supposed to be, we need to rethink how scoring/pp gains work in the section entirely. I think what I posted solves that issue pretty well.
Canozo
17 posts
Joined December 2012
Canozo
I don't see how keeping Qualified scoreboards but not rewarding performance points until ranked will do anything positive. If the map gets ranked, the score is kept and so the pp is "kept"as well, you just don't get it until it's ranked. If the map gets unranked you lose the score, and so you "lose" the pp.

I can see people complaining about "Losing their amazing scores", might as well remove scoreboards to avoid these kind of conflicts with the players.
[ Setsuna ]
422 posts
Joined October 2013
[ Setsuna ]
To the people complaining about losing your plays, please press f2 at the score screen.

As for the scores, it's stated that:

"During this week, there is a high chance they will return to pending if an issue is found.
If they return to pending, scores will be wiped."

To appeal to these people that say that they didn't read it, that's your problem and not peppy or any of the osu!staff's problems, but I suppose peppy could somehow work in a warning when you start up any qualified map. Possibly from banchobot?
Heinzen
149 posts
Joined October 2010
Heinzen

peppy wrote:

jesus1412 wrote:

I feel like dumb fucks will complain double about "not getting pp from X map" if the pp is removed.
I completely agree.

Triple that. Didn't consider this possibility when voting.

Also, in regards to the 3rd option (sorry if this has been asked before, I can't really read through everything now), "Keep them but don't reward performance points until ranked" this means that if the map gets ranked, the scores are kept and just then the points are being given, right?
Ciyus Miapah
3,011 posts
Joined June 2013
Ciyus Miapah
This category is recommended for people who:
  1. Want to play cutting-edge maps.
  2. Want to help keep map quality top-notch!
  3. Don't mind having scores removed occasionally
don't give pp on qualified maps please
especially for pp farmer they are can see pp worth before this map gets ranked
give pp after map gets ranked (if map didnt dq'ed).

add only score on top50 so we can see something there
maboesanman
35 posts
Joined August 2012
maboesanman
I think the maps should appear in top scores, but be grayed out, and the score not counted in player performance. That way people could tell how much a map gave, but wouldn't feel like it was taken from them.

Second: I think the md5 hash should only be of the hitobject data and difficulty data, not of the song title and artist name, etc. that way DQ's from incorrect information (Maneria for example) would not wipe scores, but changes in the map or difficulty would wipe scores, as they should.
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
mappers dont listen to what people who play a qualified map have to say, you'll get a nice "you shouldve modded it before it was qualified" if you do.
picking the third option would not only have no effect on the amount of drama. but, as jesus said, it would also cause a lot of confusion.

my vote goes to yes

Lust wrote:

Pretty sure Lanturn mentioned this earlier, but I'd rather go with a completely different tactic. Players can continue to compete and earn pp while in qualified, but their scores and pp gains are wiped. This will allow people to test their playing abilities (and the beatmap, provide feedback if needed too), see how the map will affect their overall pp, and avoid heartbreak when a map is disqualified since they were going to lose the pp anyway. It fits the whole "cutting edge" motif qualified beatmaps have. In multiple alpha/beta tests, most of the time you don't carry your work into the finished product (mmos with their character data, for example).

Of course, players that don't already mind losing their scores will play in qualified maps (those that should be) so they won't complain/cause a drama. Those that do mind, however, will stay away and wait the process out (or give the beatmap a try). We'll definitely need some sort of qualified indicator ingame if this were to happen though.

If we can't do the above, then it is the third option for me :D
i actually like this idea (and the reasoning behind it) a lot.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
My opinion:

Qualified maps should not give PP
  • Reason: See MANIERA drama. The leaderboards literally got fucked up due to it's disqualify and requalify.
There must be a message in red on the qualified listing saying, "YOU WILL NOT GET PP FROM THESE MAPS"
  • Reason:

    jesus1412 wrote:

    I feel like dumb fucks will complain double about "not getting pp from X map" if the pp is removed.
Qualified maps should be clearly indicated as "Latest QUALIFIED version".
  • Reason: Better indication in-game
Qualified maps should allow score listing:
  • Reason: More incentive to play the map, thus more feedback. It's also fun trying to beat other scores in DT mania while the scores are low.
Spaghetti
1,118 posts
Joined August 2014
Spaghetti
What I wonder is what would happen if the scoreboard is there but the map gives no pp for qualification, and then the map gets permaranked? Would those scores just give them the pp? Will they have to reset the scores?
Renevant
894 posts
Joined July 2013
Renevant
Third option is fine. Just give a big notification on the map so people will be less likely to complain.
phaZ
739 posts
Joined October 2011
phaZ
i would prefer to have an icon for qualified status, else i am also pleased with the third option (no pp till ranked status)
Beomsan
1,878 posts
Joined November 2013
Beomsan
The problem is that knowing that a record is deleted to update the score and express dissatisfaction.

I really really cant understand that
ithgyu
468 posts
Joined October 2014
ithgyu
Now that I think about it the 3rd option wouldn't change much, it's a step in the right direction but generally you can guess what sort of pp you will get from a play, so people will just complain about losing the pp they would have got, instead of the pp they already got. I think lust's suggestion is great, playing a qualified map gives no permanent pp, that way at least if people are gonna complain they will complain about the system rather that the QATs and the bs ranking criteria(but that's a much bigger discussion and this isn't the time and place to go into it)
Neutral
168 posts
Joined July 2014
Neutral
tbh I feel like the qualified maps are fine the way they are. Keeping the scoreboard but giving no pp isn't really doing anything really. Your score is still there if you fc a really hard map you are still going to get a pp rain for that score and if it dqs you will lose everything regardless. Your pp is just being held but its still there lol.
Rebbel
24 posts
Joined June 2014
Rebbel
I think so, for no one will be upset, because there are no selected pp C:
LoupDuQc
17 posts
Joined May 2014
LoupDuQc

Neutral wrote:

tbh I feel like the qualified maps are fine the way they are. Keeping the scoreboard but giving no pp isn't really doing anything really. Your score is still there if you fc a really hard map you are still going to get a pp rain for that score and if it dqs you will lose everything regardless. Your pp is just being held but its still there lol.
Always nicer to log back in and see that you've gained some ranks then logging in and see that you've lost that many ranks :P
Neutral
168 posts
Joined July 2014
Neutral

LoupDuQc wrote:

Neutral wrote:

tbh I feel like the qualified maps are fine the way they are. Keeping the scoreboard but giving no pp isn't really doing anything really. Your score is still there if you fc a really hard map you are still going to get a pp rain for that score and if it dqs you will lose everything regardless. Your pp is just being held but its still there lol.
Always nicer to log back in and see that you've gained some ranks then logging in and see that you've lost that many ranks :P
I guess it is a mental thing. I've never really minded losing ranks to dqs. I actually enjoy dqs tbh, usually means a map is on it's way to getting better.
DanSparce
420 posts
Joined May 2014
DanSparce
getting no pp until ranked is still useless for me though because i think players play qualified maps so they get an advantage for pp and qualified maps without the pp/scoreboard part for me doesn't differentiate it from pending that much.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
I do not know what kind of "advantage" that might be. It is not like you gain more pp the quicker you are. You gain the exact same amount of pp, regardless of when you make the play. The pp is only dependant on how good you play on the present map, not when you did it and who else played the map. These are variables not even influencing the pp gain a single bit.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412
I'm still not seeing how not rewarding pp helps, people will still lose their scores, still be mad and people will be confused about not gaining pp.

IMO it's black or white, keep the ranking charts or remove them. I am far more inclined to shout out and mod a map after qualification because I may possibly play it to set a competitive score. The best way to spot issues with a map is to attempt in numerous times, I will not try to set scores on a map without a scoreboard.

So from my perspective: Remove scoreboards - fine but qualified becomes disassociated with players, don't expect to see their views of a map unless their an active modder.

Keep scoreboards, remove pp until rank: Expect just as much bitching about DQ' and more confusion about pp.

Keep scoreboards: We're where we are today. This is my preference.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

jesus1412 wrote:

I'm still not seeing how not rewarding pp helps, people will still lose their scores, still be mad and people will be confused about not gaining pp.

IMO it's black or white, keep the ranking charts or remove them. I am far more inclined to shout out and mod a map after qualification because I may possibly play it to set a competitive score. The best way to spot issues with a map is to attempt in numerous times, I will not try to set scores on a map without a scoreboard.

So from my perspective: Remove scoreboards - fine but qualified becomes disassociated with players, don't expect to see their views of a map unless their an active modder.

Keep scoreboards, remove pp until rank: Expect just as much bitching about DQ' and more confusion about pp.

Keep scoreboards: We're where we are today. This is my preference.
I think my suggestion on the previous page is a good middle-ground for this.
Deimos
802 posts
Joined April 2012
Deimos
I would rather like to see an ingame warning like "This beatmap is currently qualified. If it gets disqualified, all scores will be wiped." or something else to make it easier to identify Qualified Beatmaps in song select.

And wiping all scores when it got ranked would increase the drama/complaints in my point of view. More scores getting wiped == more players will be affected by losing pp which results in more drama/complaints.
reflexit
12 posts
Joined January 2014
reflexit
Although not rewarding pp essentially makes no difference, getting no pp temporarily still makes me feel better than gaining lots of pp and suddenly losing them all.
But anyway, as many people mentioned above, since qualified maps are different from ranked ones, it is necessary to use a different icon for qualified maps.
Risa
435 posts
Joined January 2014
Risa

jesus1412 wrote:

Keep scoreboards, remove pp until rank: Expect just as much bitching about DQ' and more confusion about pp.

Keep scoreboards: We're where we are today. This is my preference.
Just saying : i am that guy who spends as much time playing qualified maps as ranked maps and never really cared about pp in general.

Also, when a mapset got DQed because of let's say only some issues in the easy diff, i hope that there'll be a way to 'reapply' my scores that i got last time for the other diffs that remain unchanged when the map gets requalified. If that's not possible then it's fine i guess.
7ambda
2,560 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda

DanSparce wrote:

getting no pp until ranked is still useless for me though because i think players play qualified maps so they get an advantage for pp and qualified maps without the pp/scoreboard part for me doesn't differentiate it from pending that much.
There's no advantage to playing qualified maps. I honestly think it's because many players are impatient. When they see a qualified map that gives a shit ton of pp, they don't want to wait a week to get that pp score, despite the cons of playing qualified maps.
AncuL
1,114 posts
Joined March 2013
AncuL
the 3rd one is so far the best

in my opinion just add bubble, qualify and disqualify icon to the actual game,making it easier to know which one is qualified and which one isnt
Ortlinde
255 posts
Joined January 2015
Ortlinde
ayy lemao
Hathz
157 posts
Joined August 2013
Hathz

AncuL wrote:

in my opinion just add bubble, qualify and disqualify icon to the actual game,making it easier to know which one is qualified and which one isnt
This. I will mail you my unborn child in exchange for this.
[224]Reol
Former osu!catch Champion: 2015
64 posts
Joined September 2013
[224]Reol
I cant understand... Why qualified maps get scoreboards?
Why should a user be play? idk
Mercurial
Mercurial
Scoreboards are fine.

PP should not be rewarded for only "QUALIFIED" maps.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

AncuL wrote:

the 3rd one is so far the best

in my opinion just add bubble, qualify and disqualify icon to the actual game,making it easier to know which one is qualified and which one isnt
That way I know which maps to avoid playing.
Spaghetti
1,118 posts
Joined August 2014
Spaghetti
I think Lust's suggestion is by far the best option.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

peppy wrote:

but after several months of testing, the only result of having scoreboards on these maps is huge drama and complaints from players who lose their scores when a map is disqualified.
This is 4 month late. There is no any huge drama from players about their scores lately, maybe just 1 random post saying "oh I lost my fc", can't say this is drama, everyone is aware about qualified section already. Why you should change something that just started to work properly?
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-

AncuL wrote:

the 3rd one is so far the best

in my opinion just add bubble, qualify and disqualify icon to the actual game,making it easier to know which one is qualified and which one isnt
t/353624
t/247673
Neutral
168 posts
Joined July 2014
Neutral
I love the mentality of if it gives no pp ill avoid the map... the whole idea of the qualified section is that a larger mass of people play it and give feedback on the map lol.
Karuta-_old_1
947 posts
Joined November 2009
Karuta-_old_1
I don't even care whether it gives pp or not
[ Schinken ]
4 posts
Joined December 2014
[ Schinken ]
Yeah. I completely agree
Acylica
Elite Mapper
295 posts
Joined September 2012
Acylica
imo, don't give pp before Ranked,
and Qualified status changes to Ranked,
then give pp for qualified records.
Diony
86 posts
Joined April 2014
Diony
imo, Dont give pp before rank, and remove scoreboard. But keep rank achieved and/or acc and/or misses or something like that for reference to past plays.
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