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Why is There No 7K Being Ranked?

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Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

DanSparce wrote:

but the thing is people want to see more HARDER ranked maps, most easy maps are just ignored by most people. Players today just care about pp and how to get pp? HARDER MAPS. But 4k is like easier to learn than 7k so thats why people want 4k.
Yeah, but look at all of those 7k PP farm maps tho *drools*
I know 0 about mapping, but mapping a good but hard map is a little more "possible" when done in 7k than 4k.
Cause I mean, mindless button mashing in four columns is totes ranked material. (Although IMO it should, cause who cares how stupidly mapped something is aslong as it's fun to play)

IN2k6's lunatic version looks better than the 4k version IMO, in fact, every 7k map looks better. Too bad I can't play any 7k in mania, let alone even touch O2Jam and LR2.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
DivinityGate, you could learn to 7k if you really wanted. Spend one week playing only 7k for your entire osu!mania session and see how quickly you improve.

7k actually isn't a lot harder to learn than 4k is when you start out, contrary to popular belief. A very good part of why 7k feels harder is because most people play 4k first. By playing 4k first you only learn to handle 4 columns. Trying to learn 7k after 4k becomes much harder because now you've trained your brain to play 4k and you're trying to use your 4k skills to play 7k, which takes your brain a while to figure out how to adapt. On top of that, since you're aware of how much worse your 7k is than your 4k, 7k feels less fun because you are used to seeing better scores.

You can't compare mapping 7k to mapping 4k. The things you need to pay attention to in your patterns are completely different. The base theory of mapping remains the same (layering is important in both 4k and 7k, etc.) but the kinds of patterns and issues that involve those patterns are completely different. I don't think either is harder than the other when it comes down to creating truly good maps. I think people generally don't understand just what the difference between a 'good' and 'bad' maps is.

IN2k6's 7k lunatic map is absolutely terrible. To someone who can't play it, it doesn't look nearly as bad as it actually is. The patterns are much harder than they look, and it just flat out feel bad to play.
DanSparce
420 posts
Joined May 2014
DanSparce

DivinityGate wrote:

I know 0 about mapping, but mapping a good but hard map is a little more "possible" when done in 7k than 4k.

IN2k6's lunatic version looks better than the 4k version IMO, in fact, every 7k map looks better. Too bad I can't play any 7k in mania, let alone even touch O2Jam and LR2.
i agree
Evening
2,464 posts
Joined December 2012
Evening
back to topic :

>le makes hard map in 7k

>le try to rank a map

>Realizes almost half the community only 4ks
>Realizes 50% of the 7k community can't speak english well
>Realizes 90% the 7k community can't testplay your map cause it's too hard
>Realizes a certain group of people can't map hard 7k without it having 0 playability
Sorry, if the map looks good, it doesn't mean that it plays well
>Realizes you have to have playability to rank something
>> OR DO YOU!?!?!?!
>Realizes almost all BNs are not blocko tier to testplay et maps
>>Realizes there is BN score w/e that is
>Realizes there are QATs
>>Realizes subjective opinion comes into play
>Realizes there is ranking criteria
>Realizes a large portion of maps that the community enjoys playing cannot be ranked
>>Realizes dumps are not rankable
>>>Realizes some people like to bash down your map by saying over(INSERT VSRG PATTERN HERE)
>>>>Realizes that is DQ-able
>>>>>Realizes Realizes
>Realizes you can make 10 more maps within the timeframe of ranking a map
>Realizes QATs are also not blocko tier
>Realizes there are little mania modders
>Realizes your map is over 3:00 drain time
>Realizes some modding queues only accept <3:00 drain time
>Realizes some modding queues actually accept >3:00 drain time
>>Realizes they only accept 4k
>Realizes your map is over 6*
>Realizes most modding queues can only mod effectively until 5*s
>Realizes some modding queues actually accept >6*
>>Realizes they are ctb queues
>Realizes (probably) the only thing that will benefit you for the long run in ranking maps is pending slots
>Realizes you can make map packs
>Realizes you're too much of a lazy person to rank hard maps

>stop forcing yourself on ranking maps
>pls enjoy game (and mapping)

hAshtAg r u r u c h i
Elementaires
658 posts
Joined January 2013
Elementaires
map more
mod more
open queues with less restrictions
-> le profit
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Bobbias wrote:

IN2k6's 7k lunatic map is absolutely terrible. To someone who can't play it, it doesn't look nearly as bad as it actually is. The patterns are much harder than they look, and it just flat out feel bad to play.
I wonder how a 7k version of AiAe would look, lol.

I have been playing 7k, and I'm seeing lots of improvement, but I still have trouble playing 7k, mostly LR2 with the scratch note.
Hestia-
271 posts
Joined June 2010
Hestia-
holy greentext
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

DivinityGate wrote:

I wonder how a 7k version of AiAe would look, lol.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/240209

Also Realization poem by John from #greentext
#united
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

-Kamikaze- wrote:

DivinityGate wrote:

I wonder how a 7k version of AiAe would look, lol.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/240209
Ninja'd lol. I was thinking the same thing.
Harbyter
Beatmap Nominator
1,364 posts
Joined October 2011
Harbyter

Bobbias wrote:

DivinityGate, you could learn to 7k if you really wanted. Spend one week playing only 7k for your entire osu!mania session and see how quickly you improve.

7k actually isn't a lot harder to learn than 4k is when you start out, contrary to popular belief. A very good part of why 7k feels harder is because most people play 4k first. By playing 4k first you only learn to handle 4 columns. Trying to learn 7k after 4k becomes much harder because now you've trained your brain to play 4k and you're trying to use your 4k skills to play 7k, which takes your brain a while to figure out how to adapt. On top of that, since you're aware of how much worse your 7k is than your 4k, 7k feels less fun because you are used to seeing better scores.

You can't compare mapping 7k to mapping 4k. The things you need to pay attention to in your patterns are completely different. The base theory of mapping remains the same (layering is important in both 4k and 7k, etc.) but the kinds of patterns and issues that involve those patterns are completely different. I don't think either is harder than the other when it comes down to creating truly good maps. I think people generally don't understand just what the difference between a 'good' and 'bad' maps is.

IN2k6's 7k lunatic map is absolutely terrible. To someone who can't play it, it doesn't look nearly as bad as it actually is. The patterns are much harder than they look, and it just flat out feel bad to play.

Zenx wrote:

back to topic :

>le makes hard map in 7k

>le try to rank a map

>Realizes almost half the community only 4ks
>Realizes 50% of the 7k community can't speak english well
>Realizes 90% the 7k community can't testplay your map cause it's too hard
>Realizes a certain group of people can't map hard 7k without it having 0 playability
Sorry, if the map looks good, it doesn't mean that it plays well
>Realizes you have to have playability to rank something
>> OR DO YOU!?!?!?!
>Realizes almost all BNs are not blocko tier to testplay et maps
>>Realizes there is BN score w/e that is
>Realizes there are QATs
>>Realizes subjective opinion comes into play
>Realizes there is ranking criteria
>Realizes a large portion of maps that the community enjoys playing cannot be ranked
>>Realizes dumps are not rankable
>>>Realizes some people like to bash down your map by saying over(INSERT VSRG PATTERN HERE)
>>>>Realizes that is DQ-able
>>>>>Realizes Realizes
>Realizes you can make 10 more maps within the timeframe of ranking a map
>Realizes QATs are also not blocko tier
>Realizes there are little mania modders
>Realizes your map is over 3:00 drain time
>Realizes some modding queues only accept <3:00 drain time
>Realizes some modding queues actually accept >3:00 drain time
>>Realizes they only accept 4k
>Realizes your map is over 6*
>Realizes most modding queues can only mod effectively until 5*s
>Realizes some modding queues actually accept >6*
>>Realizes they are ctb queues
>Realizes (probably) the only thing that will benefit you for the long run in ranking maps is pending slots
>Realizes you can make map packs
>Realizes you're too much of a lazy person to rank hard maps

>stop forcing yourself on ranking maps
>pls enjoy game (and mapping)

hAshtAg r u r u c h i
++++++++100
ovnz
321 posts
Joined January 2014
ovnz
I don't even understand the point of rules and templates lol in modding queues except doing the same useless thing as everybody is already doing and feeling like you are a pro, but wait you cannot be a pro cause it's not and it will never be your job. I mean if you don't want to mod a map then don't mod it.
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

-Kamikaze- wrote:

DivinityGate wrote:

I wonder how a 7k version of AiAe would look, lol.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/240209

Also Realization poem by John from #greentext
#united
Disgusting.
ovnz
321 posts
Joined January 2014
ovnz

DivinityGate wrote:

Disgusting.
lol what you can't even play it how can you say this
Harbyter
Beatmap Nominator
1,364 posts
Joined October 2011
Harbyter

DivinityGate wrote:

Disgusting.

t/249332 try this then ,the lv31
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-
Do you really think that you can just rate a keymode by the maps' appearance? xDD
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

DivinityGate wrote:

Disgusting.
liek ur faec XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
-Rebecca-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
64 posts
Joined August 2014
-Rebecca-

Transformau5 wrote:

Do you really think that you can just rate a keymode by the maps' appearance? xDD


inb4 Kamui 4key

Seriously though, this is meant towards Divinity: What? How do you know what it'd be like?
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

_Hibiki_ wrote:

Transformau5 wrote:

Do you really think that you can just rate a keymode by the maps' appearance? xDD
inb4 Kamui 4key

Seriously though, this is meant towards Divinity: What? How do you know what it'd be like?
I don't.

I say it's disgusting cause anyone who can play this is Cthulhu incarnate.
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-
Cthulhu is love, Cthulhu is life

and it's not like you rate 7k maps while you aren't even a 7k player m8
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Transformau5 wrote:

Cthulhu is love, Cthulhu is life

and it's not like you rate 7k maps while you aren't even a 7k player m8
Overjoy maps are borderline impossible.
Conclusion: Must be ET.

\:D/
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
if aiae is considered as disgusting, my air raid should make you puke immdiately ayy lmao
link for the oblivious ones
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

-Kamikaze- wrote:

if aiae is considered as disgusting, my air raid should make you puke immdiately ayy lmao
link for the oblivious ones
*Pukes*

Is this even possible?

4k Pearl Harbor and 7k Nuclear Attack lol..
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
heh
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
If anyone asks me if your Air Raid diff should be ranked, I will say yes, because THAT's how you separate the ETs from the earthlings. Want #1 rank to mean something? Let us rank shit like this. and ban multiacc/acc sharing players and hackers
Hinpoppo
184 posts
Joined February 2015
Hinpoppo

Bobbias wrote:

If anyone asks me if your Air Raid diff should be ranked, I will say yes, because THAT's how you separate the ETs from the earthlings. Want #1 rank to mean something? Let us rank shit like this. and ban multiacc/acc sharing players and hackers
Not pointing fingers :) although I respect the dedication one can have to rake in a ton of ss.

Also, what about 4k? :(
Star rating is brokeded.
Evening
2,464 posts
Joined December 2012
Evening

Bobbias wrote:

If anyone asks me if your Air Raid diff should be ranked, I will say yes, because THAT's how you separate the ETs from the earthlings. Want #1 rank to mean something? Let us rank shit like this. and ban multiacc/acc sharing players and hackers
this....
Is actually a pretty good point


HMMMMMMMM
ovnz
321 posts
Joined January 2014
ovnz

Bobbias wrote:

If anyone asks me if your Air Raid diff should be ranked, I will say yes, because THAT's how you separate the ETs from the earthlings. Want #1 rank to mean something? Let us rank shit like this. and ban multiacc/acc sharing players and hackers
^

DivinityGate wrote:

Star rating is brokeded.
no really i didn't know
Jinjin
886 posts
Joined September 2013
Jinjin

Zenx wrote:

Bobbias wrote:

If anyone asks me if your Air Raid diff should be ranked, I will say yes, because THAT's how you separate the ETs from the earthlings. Want #1 rank to mean something? Let us rank shit like this. and ban multiacc/acc sharing players and hackers
this....
Is actually a pretty good point


HMMMMMMMM
This is actually the main reason why I'm trying to rank Maniera.
DJ Profetti
DJ Profetti

Bobbias wrote:

If anyone asks me if your Air Raid diff should be ranked, I will say yes, because THAT's how you separate the ETs from the earthlings. Want #1 rank to mean something? Let us rank shit like this. and ban multiacc/acc sharing players and hackers
agree
does any one try it?
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
well, we're trying to get it ranked, but so far whole month of looking for mods resulted in nothing
literally nothing
I should just poke pepole one by once and not go on modding queues
DeanofDeeps
14 posts
Joined January 2013
DeanofDeeps

Bobbias wrote:

If anyone asks me if your Air Raid diff should be ranked, I will say yes, because THAT's how you separate the ETs from the earthlings. Want #1 rank to mean something? Let us rank shit like this. and ban multiacc/acc sharing players and hackers
It didn't hit me until the other day I was trying to explain how my rank didn't mean shit to my friend who doesn't play osu, i think the conversation sounded like,

"My rank is nothing, but you train to become ET, then once you reach a certain point on the leaderboards almost everyone gets 99-100% on every song, you just look at their youtube, LR2 page, or their score on Imperishable Night/Aiae to determine who's better"

There is OBVIOUSLY more to it than that, but if I had to sum it up in a sentence to someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, that's what I say.
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-
But you began the statement with "My rank is nothing" and then you start talking about a rank at the leaderboards? :V
DeanofDeeps
14 posts
Joined January 2013
DeanofDeeps

Transformau5 wrote:

But you began the statement with "My rank is nothing" and then you start talking about a rank at the leaderboards? :V
No i mean my rank of like 3.3k is not good at all XDDDD

Edit:
I don't like to argue about the ET map thing simply because the whole argument is a big problem in the game development world.

Do you continue to make things harder to appeal to the hardcore gamers, or do you continue to make things more approachable for newcomers.

>Hardcore Raids in MMO's vs. new players not seeing the content
>Harder RTS mechanics vs. No new players attempting to learn the game anymore

You can see which route makes more money, and which route the console game world took. It's up to peppy, it's his game and I'm sure he is aware of the struggle, I.E the approved maps struggle in Osu!Standard.
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
I'd argue that in terms of ranked maps requiring spread, the new players will have approachable lower difficulties that they can play in order to help them integrate into the hardcore community (that would obviously be pleased by harder maps being ranked).

Now that I'm starting to play the denest ranked osu!mania maps, I'd love to see even further horizons in even more challenging ranked maps to continue the enjoyable process that is 'becoming et'
Todestrieb
305 posts
Joined February 2014
Todestrieb

DeanofDeeps wrote:

>Hardcore Raids in MMO's vs. new players not seeing the content
>Harder RTS mechanics vs. No new players attempting to learn the game anymore
There is actually enough easy maps and easy maps are still gonna be ranked. One hard map can also be goal to new players.
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-
What about mapsets with both of these
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

Transformau5 wrote:

What about mapsets with both of these
lol too many diffs me no modderino xdddddddddddddd
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Also, think about this, if you want to follow current spread rules, for a 12 star song that isn't a marathon, you'd need like 7-8 diffs to provide a full spread, unless the rules have changed since last I looked.
Valedict
242 posts
Joined April 2013
Valedict
how is this thread still getting replies

stepmania
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-

-Kamikaze- wrote:

Transformau5 wrote:

What about mapsets with both of these
lol too many diffs me no modderino xdddddddddddddd
xddddddddddd
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