lov it, make moar, its an order <3

Only 40 more hours please

More Reol maps!

shouldn't the unicode artist be れをる ?
please don't hurt me

DQ is coming shortly don't worry

Lolparty wrote:

DQ is coming shortly don't worry

Thanks for telling me that

Disqualification Notice

Hello!

Unfortunately, the Quality Assurance Team has decided to disqualify this beatmap. The following is a list of reasons and examples for the disqualification. We do not outline every issue in detail, so make sure to take the idea behind each reason and apply it to the entire beatmap as issues might be found in more than the spots mentioned below. If you have any questions, please reply to this post and we will do our best to clarify any misunderstandings.


If you happen to have concerns about this disqualification, you can contest the decision with this form. Before using this form, please read the instructions carefully.

The Beatmap Nominators may handle this mapset after the issues have been addressed.

Good luck!

###M

Yeeeey another unrank cause can't map the way it feels nice for the Mapper.

where's the response to captin's post then?

the jumps at 00:21:067 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - are at best medium jumps, they aren't even that large compared to the rest of the map.. whats wrong with the jumps here? i think it accents the downbeats fine. (from player perspective)

From a player's perspective this beatmap is perfect ;~;

box

This is bs.

This is just issues according to the QATs... We need people to be experimental. There are way worse maps currently ranked, *cough* *cough* chocobo *cough* *cough*

hm

auux wrote:

This is just issues according to the QATs... We need people to be experimental. There are way worse maps currently ranked, *cough* *cough* chocobo *cough* *cough*

please dont compare VERY OLD MAPS to maps that get ranked these days, jesus christ.

sure this DQ was kinda unnessecary but your point was simply stupid.

i dont even mind anymore when all my top scores suddenly get DQ'd without a reason.

Soon the whole qualified shall be disqualified after a few days. I cri

That's Cute

OMG...

rip my pp... thanks.

I would say contest but there is no point because the QATs won't even look at it if you do. Actually why don't you just let the QATs map the whole song because regardless of who maps it, they won't let it get ranked unless it looks exactly how they want it to.

Kibbleru wrote:

Quality Assurance Team wrote:

Disqualification Notice

1. 03:08:024 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This section is a build-up too the chorus with strong emphasis on the white ticks, yet there are jumps between every objects jesus christ its almost like you didnt even listen to the song. No offense but, even a noob can tell that the song is very intense here with the huge 1/1 snares and stuff...
   
   by the way it should be 'to'* proper grammar is important here, careful guys

lol, that section actually is asking to be mapped like that, totally agree with Kibbleru.

you shouldnt change it...


For us players that jumps are perfect ;-;

you always have to try something new,,, right!?

All my pp

It's not fair to players right?

before we play the maps, we need to think about ''If the map is unqualified, I will lose the pp I gained from this map? Should I play it?''

why do we need to think of this question? Is osu! not a happy game? this map makes me confused.

by the way, I like all the jumps in this map

nobody cares about your pp now stop ty

Lolparty wrote:

I would say contest but there is no point because the QATs won't even look at it if you do. Actually why don't you just let the QATs map the whole song because regardless of who maps it, they won't let it get ranked unless it looks exactly how they want it to.

Yeah like you said.

this is getting out of control...

Im going to have to agree. I think the QAT Is a good thing. I think there are plenty of ranked maps that need to be reexamined because theyre garbage. The first DQ of this map wasnt the most necessary of DQs but it was understandable...then the mods decide its good enough...but then the QAT determines its still not quite perfect enough...

Seriously, there is a point at which youre not making something better, youre just making it different. As a producer that was a lesson I had to learn, at some point you have to say "its good enough" and just let someone else enjoy it.

And I think the QAT is so important that it really bothers me that you are wasting time on this. Please, there are so many maps that need to be fixed, dont fixate on tiny (nonexistent?) issues in one song thats already quite good.

Quality Assurance Team wrote:

captin's Extra

• 
  Examples for the above issue:

1. 00:21:067 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - There are jumps between every pair of objects, even though this is not even the most intense section
   doesn't feel overdone according to the slider velocity used in this map, as to polish the whole map up, avoiding overlaps is needed so that could be the reasons why jumps feel overdone, but in my opinion, they are fine as captin1 did place larger jumps on more intense parts.
   
2. 00:52:371 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - All the triplets and extended sliders make the rhythm much more dense than it should be. Most of them are overmapped.
   Could partially agree according to the music itself, however these built-up triples are fitting with the map itself compared with the other non-kiai parts. It becomes much more distinguished when the whole map is chaotic yet reasonable in the range that this song allows as it's an extra that is harder than the other extras.
3. 03:08:024 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This section is a build-up too the chorus with strong emphasis on the white ticks, yet there are jumps between every objects
   I see no problems here. Fast slider velocity naturally leads to larger spacing. It artificially looks hard but it practically flows well. Having short spacings with this sv could lead to anti-climax flow, and is distracting to players.

Most reasons brought up by the QATs here make sense, but what were mapped by captin1 also make sense to me. Both sides work in their way, I hope it's requalified soon.

sukiNathan wrote:

nobody cares about your pp now stop ty

Even BNs and mappers haven't say anything

At this point the QAT are just normalizing the maps for the sake of having things as they want it, not as the mapper does.


Go read threads from 2008, the suggestions made were more laid back and focused on what the mapper wanted. Mapping threads now in days are filled with mandatory suggestions made in the eyes of everyone but the mapper, and maps are changed to the point where half the map isn't even the mappers work anymore, just for the sake of qualification.

The point is, the QAT is making more and more poor decisions without keeping the mappers reasoning in mind, which is pretty unfair in my opinion. I've had maps butchered by mandatory suggestions to the point where I don't even see my map anymore when watching replays or looking at it in the editor, just to have it ready in the eyes of all besides my own.

These are my thoughts, _dog has a much better explanation of this current issue on one of my maps threads due to how people are starting to alter my map as well, just to make it like everyone elses and avoid different styles and ideas that many people think play well and enjoy: p/4306089

Good luck on requalification, and please contest this DQ.

And I thought the normalizing was from loctav and not the QATs...

Kiyame wrote:

auux wrote:

This is just issues according to the QATs... We need people to be experimental. There are way worse maps currently ranked, *cough* *cough* chocobo *cough* *cough*

please dont compare VERY OLD MAPS to maps that get ranked these days, jesus christ.

sure this DQ was kinda unnessecary but your point was simply stupid.

i dont even mind anymore when all my top scores suddenly get DQ'd without a reason.

I still find it weird when maps like that are still around but this maps is not okay because it has "some spacing inconsistencies". It's a bullshit claim because this map is fine as heck.

Feels like whoever did the dq this time is also part of the other asymmetry set :p. To me these reasons sound a lot more like differences in interpretation rather than actual quality issues. If qats could mod without any personal bias they'd be able to manage dq contests honestly... But from taking with ztrot, currently that is not yet foreseeable.

Also can you qats use more appropriate wording when it comes to making objective statements? Stuff like "The difficulty seems to lack..." Just make you sound uncertain, unsure... Don't use seems. or appears. And phrases like "x is completely lost"/"unreadable" overstate your intention and offend the mapper.

Both language misuse create fruction with the community :p. Please fix that.

Good luck with the set, Gaia & friends.

lol, I think QATs are misinterpreting what quality means, it means its of high grade, not fucking perfect, jesus christ its clearly out of hand when maps that are clearly good, but dont fit into the generic mesh that the QATs require get unranked

Spaghetti wrote:

_dog has a much better explanation of this current issue on one of my maps threads

This DQ is starting to annoy me so I'm just going to post what I said on your thread here, enjoy :-):

Spaghetti wrote:

When I first mapped it, everything was great, after so many DQ's and applying changes for the sole purpose of making this rankable, it isn't the same map anymore, it's just so changed that I can't deal with it anymore. Every point I get into pkk's mod, the more I dislike the changes and the worse the map gets, but the changes have to be made or people will get mad.

If every little thing of this map has to be pin-perfect in order to get into QUALFIED, this becomes more of a job than a hobby.

I might change my mind later, but I feel as I'm editing someone else map at this point, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry pkk, but all these changes are way too specific and nazi for me. I want this to be my map, not yours, and not nobody elses. In return, since I see that you put so much effort into this, I'ma owe you 3 mods in return, and for every KD I get from those mods, I'ma shoot them at your map.

I'm sorry.

Welp, it seems like this issue is finally starting to surface. I addressed this two years ago, and was told the community was “not ready for this discussion”, but upon recent events, it seems like we are now.

While Spaghetti’s comment may seem just like someone who is denying a DQ, the words stated in this comment are profound. I will be dividing this into sections.

*While reading this post I also would like you all to take note of: t/331416
The steps to mapping and ranking from my perspective is:
Create -> Normalize -> Process -> Discovery -> Deny

Creation: The time when a map is first born.
The mapper has picked an idea for their map to revolve around and has placed what they feel is appropriate. They have decided to post and are now looking for people to better their map. They have gotten their GDs/Collabs or sets complete and they are, by assumption, content with what they have done and are ready to ‘rank’.

Now it is time to receive mods. The mapper discovers some things they have missed and learns what they need to do for rank and, at first, they do it nothing’s wrong their map is still the same they’ve just… improved it a bit

Normalize:
Now the map has reached an SP of 12 and is ready to be ranked. The map is looking clean and it's starting to look like a ‘real’ map. It fits what is out there today. It has its PP giving jumps. The mapper is filled with hype they think they’ve made it. The map is “ready”.

What is ready to you? Good ‘flow’? Good ‘structure’? Pixel perfect symmetry? You can’t say ‘good map’, and what you say honestly won’t matter so why bother? The map is ready because a group of individuals believe it’s ready. This group of individuals have created the idea of ready. Well, divided group of individuals. One side thinks it isn’t ready the other does, and only when both have reached a point of agreement can the map be ranked. This is normalization.

Quality is subjective, and while there is a widespread agreement on a certain level of quality, relying on one group to determine and decide that level has made it impossible for a map with different standards to be able to even be considered. Now, I’m not here to say it’s this ‘group's’ fault as the idea of it is great; however, the frame for it is weak and doesn’t allow for many options before it falls down.

If a map is disqualified the ones who ranked it receive a penalty. Why put trust in a mapper who has used controversial techniques, isn’t well known, and mapped in a style thats different than average. Some may say well that mapper needs to gain experience and gain a higher status in the community before they can do crazy things like that. Why though? Why limit a map because of the status of a mapper?

Some may say well the standards are changing everyday so what we allowed before we don’t allow anymore, but then you give examples of maps that are in the process of being ranked or recently got ranked with those things, and you sit and wonder to yourself, when on earth did this standard change to not allow that to happen, and why is that already well known mapper about to rank a map with that in it?

So then you say, well maybe it doesn’t fit the song? People back it up.

Widely known and accepted mappers with non normalized maps haven’t shown up in years. People say that a new mapper can get to that level but our system doesn’t allow for it. The mappers who are able to get through now are able to because when they were at the bottom they were presented with a more lenient system, and now they’re at the top so people trust their decisions without contest and they get through while the lower potentially good mapper does not.

At this point in time people will send me maps by lesser known mappers, and each map will have a differing and noticeable style. At the same time however, I can provide you with multiple maps all pairing with those styles. Variety can still equal normativity.

dorothy3242 wrote:

While there appears to be variety among maps today, it's not just about current variety using current methods, but also allowing for the entrance of new ideas

Process:
These are the final stages of the ranking process. The QAT and BNs are bubbling and the disqualifications are happening. Upon disqualification we head back to the normalizing step. And soon we enter the stage of discovery.

Discovery:
So let’s head back to our original quote at the top. Spaghetti is in the stage of discovery. They have realized what their map has become. They have seen that it is not theirs anymore and they are unhappy with it.

Spaghetti wrote:

applying changes for the sole purpose of making this rankable

Normalized.

Spaghetti wrote:

Every point I get into pkk's mod, the more I dislike the changes and the worse the map gets, but the changes have to be made or people will get mad.

It is at this time that I ask you to go read the post marked with the asterisk.

We aren’t modding in the eyes of the mapper. We are pushing and enforcing our views on their map. It has become no different than any other, and this is where it’s understood that it is a false idea to think that you are creating your own map, but rather you have picked a song and done the work required for it to be ranked. With this idea in mind, osu! should have switched to an auto-generate beatmap system a long time ago.

What’s interesting is that the older members of the community who tend to be a part of these groups and work on making these decisions tend to reminisce on the times before systems like these. For instance, read a couple of beatmap threads from 2008, and you will realize there was a whole different view on how maps should be back then. It was all about what the mapper wanted in the end, and others just gave suggestions. Not requirements, suggestions.

Discovery is a time when we all should have recognized the issue. Not just in Spaghetti’s situation, but for all maps.

Cl8n wrote:

If we all just recognize the existence of this problem, then surely, we as a community together, can make a better system and/or environment for everyone. The community is "ready for this discussion" now.

Deny:
This is our usual response to this issue, and hopefully that will change. This is where we deny what’s going on, dismiss Spaghetti, and move on to another map for it to happen again. This is when a map has finally been ranked, and we deny how changed it is: how normal it has become. This is where you deny this post and move on.

_dog knows