Drain time is incorrect when there's a slider or spinner at the end of the map (drain time only goes to the start of the slider/spinner). This map ends with a circle so that doesn't apply.
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DragonForce - Cry Thunder
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Topic Starter
I did appeal when I wrote the initial reply post already, so there's hoping they'll get to look through it relatively soon.
Ah, I just assumed that the spinner was at the end because of VINXIS post, my bad.MillhioreF wrote:
Drain time is incorrect when there's a slider or spinner at the end of the map (drain time only goes to the start of the slider/spinner). This map ends with a circle so that doesn't apply.
In the worst case, if you don't want to change anything, you can still slow down the BPM a bit, like -1 or -2. It won't be hearable, won't ruin the song quality (unless if you're slowing it down slightly) and will make your map a bit longer, to reach 5:00.
You'll indeed have to replace every single element and timing point in your map, but it's still a solution if you're not lazy or don't want to change your mapping.
In all cases, you'll have to reach 5:00 in order to rank it, because that's how the RC are, and there's still no marathon map ranked below 5:00 since 2007.
(except if the QAT decides to make an exception)
Good luck!
You'll indeed have to replace every single element and timing point in your map, but it's still a solution if you're not lazy or don't want to change your mapping.
In all cases, you'll have to reach 5:00 in order to rank it, because that's how the RC are, and there's still no marathon map ranked below 5:00 since 2007.
(except if the QAT decides to make an exception)
Good luck!
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/101317Neil Watts wrote:
and there's still no marathon map ranked below 5:00 since 2007.
4:59:999 draintime
I wonder why wasn't it DQed.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯Kyubey wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/101317Neil Watts wrote:
and there's still no marathon map ranked below 5:00 since 2007.
4:59:999 draintime
I wonder why wasn't it DQed.
The drain time is only 4:59.999 because of a rounding error. It consists of 95 measures of four beats each at 76 bpm which comes out to exactly five minutes.Kyubey wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/101317Neil Watts wrote:
and there's still no marathon map ranked below 5:00 since 2007.
4:59:999 draintime
I wonder why wasn't it DQed.
DeletedUser_4329079
redacted
God Mode activatedJenny wrote:
On another note, my previous post is unquotable and uneditable, so I presume we found ourselves a forum bug (also, the distance to the end-of-post borders is fucked up).
stuff like this is why the mapping community is so inaccessible
There were days where it was much more accessible but there were so many other problemsII Jelli II wrote:
stuff like this is why the mapping community is so inaccessible
Big Black lasts less than 5 minutes and it is still approovedNeil Watts wrote:
In the worst case, if you don't want to change anything, you can still slow down the BPM a bit, like -1 or -2. It won't be hearable, won't ruin the song quality (unless if you're slowing it down slightly) and will make your map a bit longer, to reach 5:00.
You'll indeed have to replace every single element and timing point in your map, but it's still a solution if you're not lazy or don't want to change your mapping.
In all cases, you'll have to reach 5:00 in order to rank it, because that's how the RC are, and there's still no marathon map ranked below 5:00 since 2007.
(except if the QAT decides to make an exception)
Good luck!
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38846Neil Watts wrote:
there's still no marathon map ranked below 5:00 since 2007.
(except if the QAT decides to make an exception)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38846
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/45306
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38697
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/36569
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/55560
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/34348
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/36988
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/53923
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48842
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/17558
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/46238
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/44527
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48979
seems like a lot of exceptions, or did they change the rules in 2012?
It was possible to approve shorter maps before, but i think that changed in late 2012 (?). Its not possible now anyways.II Jelli II wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38846Neil Watts wrote:
there's still no marathon map ranked below 5:00 since 2007.
(except if the QAT decides to make an exception)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38846
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/45306
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38697
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/36569
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/55560
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/34348
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/36988
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/53923
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48842
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/17558
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/46238
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/44527
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48979
seems like a lot of exceptions, or did they change the rules in 2012?
Why not try + Offset or - OD，I think OD too high result it hard
(I M taikoplayer ，I play this song have to +2 offset ..But BPM I think it is no problem :3
I wish I can help you (Even I will not play OSU
(I M taikoplayer ，I play this song have to +2 offset ..But BPM I think it is no problem :3
I wish I can help you (Even I will not play OSU
I believe it's well known that 5 min is a hard requirement for approval and there are no exceptions, especially not for maps whose drain time falls a bit short.
Which is why this map should not go for approval then. As much as it sucks, rules are rules, and everyone has to abide by them. I've had countless 4:5X songs I've wanted to map for approval but just couldn't.Blue Dragon wrote:
The 3-second thing cannot be fixed and isn't a real issue.
which is completely retarded.xxdeathx wrote:
I believe it's well known that 5 min is a hard requirement for approval and there are no exceptions, especially not for maps whose drain time falls a bit short.
Why do we have to go full nazi on things like this? I dont want to change the speed of the song or create a possible 7 diff spread, just because my map is two damn seconds short.
Also, what is the difference from a 4:58min 200 BPM song to a 5:10min 180 BPM song? It would have around the same amount of objects, assuming it would be the same map. Am I not allowed to qualify basically the same map, just because of these two seconds? There's no real logic beind that.
I understand if it's impossible to make the map 5 minutes but Jenny has 3 seconds they can map so just map it lol. The rules a rule and we all know that allowing 4:57 to get ranked would just cause controversy for every other 4:57 map and 4:56... then 4:55.
Now I actually want the approval time to be around 4:40 but that shouldn't be discussed for this map and for another time. A rules a rule so follow.
The worst part is you actually have a way to not break said rule yet theres controversy over it...
Now I actually want the approval time to be around 4:40 but that shouldn't be discussed for this map and for another time. A rules a rule so follow.
The worst part is you actually have a way to not break said rule yet theres controversy over it...
Topic Starter
TheGrimOfCrazy wrote:
I understand if it's impossible to make the map 5 minutes but Jenny has 3 seconds they can map so just map it lol.
The worst part is you actually have a way to not break said rule yet theres controversy over it...
Jenny wrote:
Quality Assurance Team wrote:
- (F) Formal Errors
- Drain time is less than 5:00. This map starts from 00:00:388 - to 04:00:388 -, from 04:15:157 – to 05:11:464 - . The real play time is less than 5:00. 4:57 is not acceptable. For approval, it must be longer than 5:00.
Okay, so what are the "solutions" to this artificial problem?
- a) remove the breaktime and add random circles/sliders there
b) add a 3 second slider at the end
I do not see how any of these are going to increase the quality of the map, and let's just be honest, making a mapset for this song would not make a whole lot of sense either - not even counting the fact it'd be just about impossible to get anyone willing to spend their time modding a mapset of 7 difficulties, 4:57 minutes each for the artificial issue of this being "3 seconds too short".
An easy and normal difficulty would not make any sense to have on a song like this, specifically considering its length and intensity, so I believe we can agree that that is out of question - so what remains to do regarding this issue?
Artificially inflating the draintime just to fit a sheer numbers criteria? Adding random noise at the start or end of the song/slowing it down by 1% so that it'll last 3 seconds longer?
I don't see how either of those would help raise the quality of the map (or then-"set") in any way, sorry.
Concludingly said: I could probably work around doing something for the mentioned jumps, but for that I'd need the QATs involved to actually interact and talk things through with me and test out different patterns as to keep both the existing idea and conform to QAT standards - about the length, I do not think we can really argue. Worst case I will add a 3 second slider on top of silence/remove the first break which will result in a huge loss in atmosphere and immersion, but at least it'll make it approvable by today's standards.
This is not about "there is no way to not break this", this is about "enforcing this rule under any circumstance would result in a loss of quality", which is not supposed to be the aim of the QAT, specifically in border cases like this, where the benefit is legitimately only three forced seconds of "gameplay" in parts of the song that have no standout beats or patterning.
If we allow someone to have a 4:59:00 map, someone else is going to say "but look, this map was 4:59:00 Mine's 4:58:00! It's practically the same!" And someone else will say "Mine is 4:57:00!! That 4:58:00 map got approved, mine's practically the same, let me go for approval too!" And the chain will continue until 30 second maps are going for approval. You need to draw the line somewhere, and right now, the line is drawn at 5:00:00. It used to be higher if I recall.Yauxo wrote:
which is completely retarded.xxdeathx wrote:
I believe it's well known that 5 min is a hard requirement for approval and there are no exceptions, especially not for maps whose drain time falls a bit short.
Why do we have to go full nazi on things like this? I dont want to change the speed of the song or create a possible 7 diff spread, just because my map is two damn seconds short.
Also, what is the difference from a 4:58min 200 BPM song to a 5:10min 180 BPM song? It would have around the same amount of objects, assuming it would be the same map. Am I not allowed to qualify basically the same map, just because of these two seconds? There's no real logic beind that.
You could argue that this map is absolutely not suitable for a Normal/Hard but mappers are just going to complain "How come that 4:57:00 map got approved, but i need to map a full 6-diff spread for my 4:58:00 150 BPM map?"
5:00 is a very workable number. Allowing lenience to one map means allowing lenience to all maps.
Make a 5 minute normal beatmap please.lolcubes wrote:
The original Approval rule was 4:30 and/or score above 18~20m, however that got nuked because, if I remember correctly, peppy decided (and posted somewhere on these forums, can't find it now) that all maps should actually aim for rank and not for approval. Approval was only meant to be for really special and unique maps, and true marathons, however longer songs were considered to be a marathon for some reason too.
Someone else make a post in ranking criteria to complain about the inanity of Easy/Normal difficulties longer than 3 minutes.
Unless of course Jenny can map a 1:30 normal and still get this ranked? or is that bad form?
Topic Starter
ziin wrote:
Make a 5 minute normal beatmap please.lolcubes wrote:
The original Approval rule was 4:30 and/or score above 18~20m, however that got nuked because, if I remember correctly, peppy decided (and posted somewhere on these forums, can't find it now) that all maps should actually aim for rank and not for approval. Approval was only meant to be for really special and unique maps, and true marathons, however longer songs were considered to be a marathon for some reason too.
Someone else make a post in ranking criteria to complain about the inanity of Easy/Normal difficulties longer than 3 minutes.
Unless of course Jenny can map a 1:30 normal and still get this ranked? or is that bad form?
If I was going to go for the difficulty spread-option on this, I'd have to make about 5-6 additional difficulties at full length, because that's how the system works - no diffs may end significantly early, and there must be no holes in ranked mapsets.
At this point I'd just map the break out. That's what I ended up having to do for my map because drain was 4:57 as well. 
I can't find that rule.Jenny wrote:
no diffs may end significantly early
Mapping the break is the worst thing you could do in this situation.
Topic Starter
Frankly speaking, last time I asked/was in contact with something like that is over a year ago, so maybe it changed - will go poke a QAT about it, if I so manage to catch one online;ziin wrote:
I can't find that rule.Jenny wrote:
no diffs may end significantly early
Mapping the break is the worst thing you could do in this situation.
and yes, I agree - mapping the break would result in a big loss of atmospheric value, but it's probably a lot easier to do than get another 6 diffs and get mods for them, which is sad but that's where we are, hence me contesting the disqualification :/
Both of these "options" suck ass.
Fittingness and quality are supposed to come first.
If quality was the first concern then the whole marathon rule wouldn't exist in the first place.
I want old approval back
goold old 2012
goold old 2012
If they we're to shorten the approval time, there would be so many approved maps since people wouldn't want to map a full set. I think the 5 minute bar is fine.
Tbh you probably should've figured out what the drain time would average out to be before you started mapping.
Tbh you probably should've figured out what the drain time would average out to be before you started mapping.
There are so many approval maps that have less than 5:00 drain, including jenny's fallen world, airman (it has a ranked tho), Big Black, Pony etc
which were ranked years ago, rules are changing yknowDelk wrote:
There are so many approval maps that have less than 5:00 drain, including jenny's fallen world, airman (it has a ranked tho), Big Black, Pony etc
Now that I noticed it I am sorry for what I said. I know why it has to be 5:00 and 4:58 cant be forgiven. Because then someone will post an approval 4:55 map and ask for the same, and so on....Aka wrote:
which were ranked years ago, rules are changing yknowDelk wrote:
There are so many approval maps that have less than 5:00 drain, including jenny's fallen world, airman (it has a ranked tho), Big Black, Pony etc
Jenny... approving a 5:00 minute map is not really a "quality" issue but more of an "adhering by the rules" issue. So, I would suggest that you don't give yourself and others further headache and just map the break.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Topic Starter
Which then results in compromising fittingness with the song for the sheer sake of a three second edge case, in a rhythm game I may add, whose goal is supposedly to go with the song as well as possible, hence rhythm.Kinshara wrote:
Jenny... approving a 5:00 minute map is not really a "quality" issue but more of an "adhering by the rules" issue. So, I would suggest that you don't give yourself and others further headache and just map the break.
Good luck.
Also, still no reaction by the QAT.
While that is true, I don't see how mapping the break will ruin the map and/or song. Could you please elaborate?
In my opinion, the break can be mapped decently without any loss of quality, but perhaps, I am mistaken.
Also, if your contestation is still pending, Loctav said to contact him (according to his reply on ask.fm).
In my opinion, the break can be mapped decently without any loss of quality, but perhaps, I am mistaken.
Also, if your contestation is still pending, Loctav said to contact him (according to his reply on ask.fm).
The rules are rules, there's no way around it besides sacrificing the break. I highly doubt the QAT will even consider your case knowing what can happen to other maps if they let this one slide. They're already having a hard time with unrelated BG's after letting 7 -seven- slide.
Topic Starter
Drain time is now 5:11 - considering to make the slowpart's sliders 0.09-0.13x instead though, to make it even more of a hold-y feeling rather than a very slow slide.
May the QATs be in our favor.
Bubble #1
Bubble #1
That break seems so lazily mapped :< you should map to the vocals and chimes in the background.