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Miki Sayaka vs. Miki Sayaka (fw. Miki Sayaka) - squartatrice

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Topic Starter
soulfear
waiting for Charles445
Rori Vidi Veni
opipipopioqrwerweiopoiioqrweiip[qrwe
Charles445
Really surreal to see people in here newer than the map itself x_x time goes by quickly doesn't it
Anyway I'm going to clear up some stuff about the set, also do keep in mind it is very old and has undergone a ton of changes over the years (see ziin's post of the original diff, many parts were redone numerous times).

OKAY before I begin, as a disclaimer I've looked at this map a bunch over the years so that might skew my views on it a bit.
However it also means I know where it's been o_o so let's begin.

The video is of very poor quality.
BG and video are taken from the official BMS, they have the same file names as well.
Video can't be updated because a better version doesn't exist, so it should stay.
Video is a novelty anyway, most disable it and this is accurate to the source material.

Refer back to ziin's post concerning the timing sections and metadata
Last time we put it in the tags, it's effectively the same song just with very minor changes (achieved by alternate charting). Definitely debatable but for now I think having it in tags is good enough.
ziin's timing is good but has rounding error, I'll fix that

Spread issues throughout the mapset.
I'm personally not too concerned, Easy to Normal to Hyper isn't bad considering the range of difficulty it's covering.
The Another is harder than the Hyper by a lot, but it also serves as an easier variant of Sayaka with similar concepts. It's needed in the set.
A solution would be a difficulty between the Hyper and Another, but as is it's really not a huge problem.

00:42:641 (1) - to 00:50:530 (1) - the NC and slider spam is painful to play. Everything in this section is poorly executed due to the fast pace of the sliders and little to no momentum and flow to carry the player through it all
Images for reference of intended gameplay
http://puu.sh/hpkxC/de6d949aea.jpg
http://puu.sh/hpkGP/272e317ef9.jpg
http://puu.sh/hpkYP/0627c3a436.jpg
http://puu.sh/hplgN/6cb88022d0.jpg
http://puu.sh/hply7/73bb9d8eea.jpg

00:54:641 (1) - to 00:58:474 (1) - ^
http://puu.sh/hplMc/eb4c5f826b.jpg
I don't think I need to draw a diagram for 00:56:891 -, it's all very close together.

01:13:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5) -
http://puu.sh/hpmv5/82135be199.jpg
Very tough, but easier if you approach it carefully. Cursor will be changing speed constantly.

---
---

Okay so next part is mod as requested
Just covering the big things

[General]
Change timing -> http://puu.sh/hpjpF/07d7ed8366.png
Add to tags -> "-witch-" or "witch"

[Another]
01:44:308 - Try slider velocity 0.75x for this slow part, that makes the slider tick visible (so it is clear how fast the slider is)

[Sayaka]
00:46:058 (1,1,1) - Remove new combos (new combos are 1/3 later, so since these are 1/4 just have it a single combo)
01:49:641 (1,1) - I think end the first two 1/4 earlier, very big slider jumps, too easy to break. http://puu.sh/hpmha/7f3ad6b2e1.jpg
01:52:308 (1) - Shorten 1/4, then move next few notes back, I think something happened here that broke it :o http://puu.sh/hpmmC/ee33edb48b.jpg
fanzhen0019
哪个傻逼撕的
osu needs more soul mapping from the ancient
[Twinkle]
:(
ziin

Charles445 wrote:

ziin's timing is good but has rounding error, I'll fix that
Just so you know this timing differs from the actual BMS chart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwYgWBJtSso
which is 3/4 at the start. My only guess is that the new intro is 4/4 but the mapper kept it as 3/4. The differences between the witch version and the BOF2011 version is just a few notes during the song, a slight delay in the audio/removal of some audio, and a completely new intro.

Charles445 wrote:

Change timing -> http://puu.sh/hpjpF/07d7ed8366.png
I actually didn't check the time signature sorry, just copied Low's and assumed it was right. This is the correct time signature per the video above (except for the 4/4 measures at the beginning).
http://i.imgur.com/LBVMjAK.png
Please be super careful with time signatures. Due to silliness if you change a time signature on a red line, it won't change the green lines afterwards.
-25,333.333333333333,4,2,0,65,1,0
10641,333.333333333333,3,2,0,75,1,0
42641,333.333333333333,4,2,0,100,1,0
42641,333.333333333333,6,2,0,100,1,0
58640,333.333333333333,4,2,0,100,1,0
81306,333.333333333333,5,1,0,95,1,0
82972,333.333333333333,4,2,0,95,1,0
Make sure you correct the 3rd field in each green line in the .osu file to match the red line above.

For example, change
10641,333.333333333333,3,2,0,75,1,0
25932,-100,4,2,0,80,0,0
to
10641,333.333333333333,3,2,0,75,1,0
25932,-100,3,2,0,80,0,0
Once this gets fixed I'll double check the green lines. Also remember that red timing sections reset to 1.0x slider velocity, so you have to put another slider velocity changer on the timing section to fix it.
Spiral
kozato和8284美丽
Topic Starter
soulfear

Lust wrote:

Greetings, soulfear! My apologies, but on behalf of the QAT I must disqualify this beatmap for the following reasons:
  1. Insufficient and poor quality across all difficulties within the mapset
    Sorry, but it seems that you probably don't understand such style - it's fine, but it doesn't means that map have poor quality, that's just a subjective opinion
  2. The video is of very poor quality. Either find a new one or remove it.
    As Charles said, this video is from the original BMS, so it can't be improved
  3. Spread issues throughout the mapset. In particular, the spread between the normal, hyper, and another is too uneven.
    This was mapped waaaaaay before spread rules were even announced, but even now I can believe that spread should be acceptable enough - at least 4 BNs already confirmed this
  4. The way the patterns flow in the easy difficulty are way too complicated for the lowest diff of the set, most noticeably from 00:02:641 (1) - to 00:42:641 (1) - . This is due to the repeats and amount of close single tap that populates the map. The spacing makes all the notes overlap which can be confusing as well as awkward (little to no movement at all)
    Easy & Normal have no any overlapping, and I believe that difficulty level is acceptable enough, which also was confirmed by enough modders/BNs
  5. In the hyper diff, 01:41:641 (1,1) - the slider can be hard to notice on the default skin due to how the default spinner is colored. The blue combo color here makes it pretty difficult. You can fix this by selecting a different combo color through the new combo option in the editor.
    I highly doubt that it's theoretically possible to misread such long slider, but if you really considered this too important I can fix it
  6. Refer back to ziin's post concerning the timing sections and metadata
    You seems to unrank even without checking official sources, dont you? Rather than blindly trust anyone, you'd better check this

As you can see, the QAT is not pleased with the quality found throughout the set - especially the Sayaka difficulty. The following is a list of concerns found in the mapset. Be aware we are not going to list out every instance of poor execution or implementation, it is up to you to apply these changes as you see fit.

[Sayaka]
This difficulty lacks heavily in quality. The gameplay and design flaws are systematic - they range from poor flow, bad beat placement, erratic slider velocity changes, object placement with little basis in the music, and forced gameplay. What is pointed out here are certain concerns that can be found all throughout the map, so be sure to correct and revise them.
  1. 00:03:974 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - These back and forth movements are way too jerky, as there isn't much momentum coming from the previous pattern at all. These types of patterns are common throughout the map, I recommend you go and look through the map and examine any and all instances of poor movement and revise them
  2. 00:09:141 (10,1) - Poor emphasis and inconsistent spacing on 1. Before and afterwards you had larger spacing to accommodate the change in rhythm, here you seemed to disregard that for seemingly no reason
  3. 00:09:641 (3,4,5,6,7) - Cramped stream shape that doesn't flow very well from the previous pattern. They cut back from before, and as a result feel very forced. There are other instances of poor slider shapes/angles, go through the difficulty and see if you can fix all of these
  4. 00:12:808 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - overmappy/overdone stream that comes out of nowhere. Since the movements throughout all the patterns are very linear, there needs to be more momentum for a player to push through this stream comfortably.
  5. 00:14:641 (1) - to 00:24:474 (1) - The mapper throws consistent spacing, musical emphasis, and beat placement out of the window here. It seems randomly placed, as if the mapper wishes to fit everything to a pattern as opposed to fitting it to the music. This can be very confusing, plus with the lack of sliders the momentum is not there for the players to cruise through this. This whole section needs to be revised.
  6. 00:42:641 (1) - to 00:50:530 (1) - the NC and slider spam is painful to play. Everything in this section is poorly executed due to the fast pace of the sliders and little to no momentum and flow to carry the player through it all
  7. 00:54:641 (1) - to 00:58:474 (1) - ^
  8. 01:13:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5) - The amount of movement to play all of these is brutal and nonsensical. Sure its the hardest diff, but this is pushing the boundaries a bit too much, especially since they don't fit the music too well (should be saved for a more extreme section, not for a common sounding area)
  9. 01:44:308 (1) - to 01:54:974 (1) - . This section has major issues with flow and gameplay mechanics. Tons of fast paced sliders that are too unituitive, circles stacked underneath slider heads that can be difficult to see, etc. This area needs quite a bit of revision as well
[Another]
A lot of the patterns play on tight angles and little to no momentum, which can be quite the issue. A lot of which we have pointed out the in Sayaka diff, can be applied to here as well. Consistency and poor flow needs to be corrected

[Hyper]
This is way, way to easy in comparison to the Another. This difficulty is mostly 1/2, while the Another is filled with jumps and 1/4. What we have stated in the Sayaka difficulty with the flow breaks and inconsistency can apply here as well.

[Normal + Easy]
The flow issues and poor pattern placement fill these difficulties. The issues range from poor overlaps (00:45:974 (3,5) - and 00:49:974 (3,4,1) -in the normal), awkward slider shapes that flow erratically (especially in the normal), and poor flow from object to object in the easy difficulty. We have stated this issue earlier in the post, however this is just to reiterate.

In conclusion, we are not satisfied with this qualification. There needs to be tons of revision needed before this map can even be considered for the ranked status. The BNG will handle the requalification process, good luck!
Topic Starter
soulfear

Charles445 wrote:

[General]
Change timing -> http://puu.sh/hpjpF/07d7ed8366.png
Add to tags -> "-witch-" or "witch"
Fixed all

[Another]
01:44:308 - Try slider velocity 0.75x for this slow part, that makes the slider tick visible (so it is clear how fast the slider is)
I tried to use 0.75x but I feel 0.5x better than 0.75x so I keep this

[Sayaka]
00:46:058 (1,1,1) - Remove new combos (new combos are 1/3 later, so since these are 1/4 just have it a single combo)
Fixed
01:49:641 (1,1) - I think end the first two 1/4 earlier, very big slider jumps, too easy to break. http://puu.sh/hpmha/7f3ad6b2e1.jpg
I tried as you said but it destroy these sliders and make these sliders lost fun,I think they are not so hard to catch
01:52:308 (1) - Shorten 1/4, then move next few notes back, I think something happened here that broke it :o http://puu.sh/hpmmC/ee33edb48b.jpg
Fixed
Koiyuki
Normal
  1. 01:11:974 (3) - nc?
Hyper
  1. 01:34:140 - add a note? for consistancy also add a note 01:36:807 - ?
for Another and Sayaka, I really have no complaints, that's the power of 2011.
Koiyuki
You have already given me a kd, it's not needed now lol.

Although idk what happened to the BSS, what I mentioned has already fixed after redownloading.
Rebubbled.
Rockageek
the map still looks awful on ctb but who cares about ctb..
let's rank a map harder than almost all TAG4..
Len
good

edit: lol im so fast
Kodora
back on track
BeatofIke
Re-congrats soulfear :D
iiyo
:cry:

Rockageek wrote:

the map still looks awful on ctb but who cares about ctb..
let's rank a map harder than almost all TAG4..

let's rank https://osu.ppy.sh/s/120515
Frostmourne
It's good to see a variety of mapping style in the ranked maps instead of a spam of 2015 beatmap styles that allow them to pass the Qualified section.
It might look poor quality to some people, yet it also looks good to some people as well, and there are relationship between the map and song so I hope it passes qualified. ~~
Aka
no way..
Sieg
xGx
Grats on requalify, I hope it goes ranked this time.
Timorisu
Let's requalify a map without adressing any of the unqualifying reasons. What could go wrong?
Rockageek

Storm- wrote:

let's rank https://osu.ppy.sh/s/120515
100% ready for rank
Ekoro

Sieg wrote:

winber1
don't be butthurt guys. embrace it.

only then can you become a true hokage.
Monstrata

Sieg wrote:

Cherry Blossom

FrostxE wrote:

It's good to see a variety of mapping style in the ranked maps instead of a spam of 2015 beatmap styles that allow them to pass the Qualified section.
It might look poor quality to some people, yet it also looks good to some people as well, and there are relationship between the map and song so I hope it passes qualified. ~~
Exactly what i'm thinking.
Enon
really good
Zare
Other than the extreme Slider velocities and visually messy patterns, which aren't even that bad, what actually bothers me about this map is the rhythms on some parts, which seem to be completely off at some points with little to no relation to music. If those things woulda been improved, i feel like the map would feel much better.

Examples would be
00:38:308 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - which is a 7 circle stream mapped on a 5 1/4s pattern
01:19:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Where the slider rhythms are not matching the actual beats in the music
01:19:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - where there's no note to emphasize the beat in the music
01:41:641 (21,22,23) - which i dont understand at all, what sound is (22) supposed to follow
01:42:724 (2) - which is entirely offbeat
02:00:808 (3) - which is a 1/2 slider mapped on a 1/4 triple

I know this may be late since it's requalified already, but please consider it in case it gets dq'd again.


And now, back to spectator mode.
_index

Sieg wrote:

Charles445

Zare wrote:

Examples would be
00:38:308 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - which is a 7 circle stream mapped on a 5 1/4s pattern
Imagine a new combo on the 5, so 1234 - 123
The 123 is based off of the repeating noise, as followed by the other stacked streams later.
12341 is the piano.
The 5 is a combination of both parts of the music, that's why it looks confusing.

01:19:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Where the slider rhythms are not matching the actual beats in the music
01:19:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - where there's no note to emphasize the beat in the music
Mimicking synth, followed up by sliders going with the synth later.
Synth dropped at 01:20:390 - , but strong beat at 01:20:474 - , then synth picks back up at 01:20:640 -
So that's why it's all sliders, every start is a strong beat.

01:41:641 (21,22,23) - which i dont understand at all, what sound is (22) supposed to follow
The synth reaching its peak pitch. 3/4 rhythm, notice starts of 21, 22, and 23 are 3/4 apart.

01:42:724 (2) - which is entirely offbeat
This one could actually be a mistake, perhaps a solution would be http://puu.sh/hqGG5/7881a3218b.jpg
The circlestream jump is definitely intentional for emphasis but it might not be in the right place.
02:00:808 (3) - which is a 1/2 slider mapped on a 1/4 triple
Hear the strings in the background? It's switched to that.
02:00:307 - Marks a switch to a calmer focus, as noted in the Another where it's literally a drain section.


Anyway yeah, the 01:42:724 is definitely good to point out.


The map is probably going to get unqualified for some form of reason, but I'd like to ask that if it DOES get unqualified, that it gets unqualified with good, relevant reasons. There's nothing worse than a post that says "this sucks, remap it because I don't understand it".
joolomasta
I think that the recent unqualifications have shown us that the QATs are forcing mappers to use a certain style of mapping in order to get their maps ranked. Everything that isn't mapped to the same mold as most maps nowadays do, get DQd several times before maybe getting ranked. I know, the popular mapping style that's being enforced is easy to read, mostly fun to play and gives a lot of pp. But different styles should still be allowed.

This map brings back vibes from older maps, and even though all people might not appreciate the oldschool mapping style, this map shouldn't be judged by it's style only. There are indeed some weird choices that should maybe get revised, but please don't try to squash every single map into the same mold.
Kite
O, grats~
Perhaps it will make it to the ranked section this time~
It's hard to say what quality is, in the end players decide for themselves if they like the map and want to play it or not
Ethercastle

Charles445 wrote:

The map is probably going to get unqualified for some form of reason, but I'd like to ask that if it DOES get unqualified, that it gets unqualified with good, relevant reasons. There's nothing worse than a post that says "this sucks, remap it because I don't understand it".
^

Still one of my favorite maps, regrats!

不会欣赏艺术的人真是糟糕 EDIT:有人又代表Q(自)AT(己)执行正义啦!
Kroytz

joolomasta wrote:

I think that the recent unqualifications have shown us that the QATs are forcing mappers to use a certain style of mapping in order to get their maps ranked. Everything that isn't mapped to the same mold as most maps nowadays do, get DQd several times before maybe getting ranked. I know, the popular mapping style that's being enforced is easy to read, mostly fun to play and gives a lot of pp. But different styles should still be allowed.

This map brings back vibes from older maps, and even though all people might not appreciate the oldschool mapping style, this map shouldn't be judged by it's style only. There are indeed some weird choices that should maybe get revised, but please don't try to squash every single map into the same mold.
If that's the case, then by your definition we should just neglect any sort of guideline/standards that have been established as of recent and map whatever we want, however we want.

This map was made in 2011, and to call it a "style" of mapping is wrong in itself because of how low the standards were during that time compared to now. If low quality is a "style", then there are LOTS of graveyarded maps that should be ranked. I have nothing against unorthodox styles, in fact, I'm all for "different", but we should carefully reevaluate what kind of maps we're trying to promote in osu!
We're not cavemen anymore people...
Shiro

joolomasta wrote:

I think that the recent unqualifications have shown us that the QATs are forcing mappers to use a certain style of mapping in order to get their maps ranked. Everything that isn't mapped to the same mold as most maps nowadays do, get DQd several times before maybe getting ranked. I know, the popular mapping style that's being enforced is easy to read, mostly fun to play and gives a lot of pp. But different styles should still be allowed.
Well shit, I'm in trouble D:
Also the style that is currently popular is nowhere easy to read, it relies on gimmicks and generally confusing/unintuitive patterns to provide with challenge

joolomasta wrote:

This map brings back vibes from older maps, and even though all people might not appreciate the oldschool mapping style, this map shouldn't be judged by it's style only. There are indeed some weird choices that should maybe get revised, but please don't try to squash every single map into the same mold.
let this get ranked and let players decide whether or not this is good ?
I'm ok with that, I dislike this map because it's the kind of style I enjoy playing and I disagree with a majority of the choices, but that's how soulfear wanted to map it so that's acceptable
MillhioreF
A few things I'm still surprised about in Sayaka difficulty.

00:42:474 (7) - How does this make any sense? Not only is there no musical cue for such a sudden jump, but the flow coming onto it is completely backwards, and it feels like something you'd see in a TAG4 map.
00:53:808 (11) - The spacing is noticeably off here compared to the rest of the stream, it should be one grid lower on grid4.
00:57:558 (1,2) - The slider velocity here doubles with completely no warning, unless you're able to read the approach circles of the next sliders and see that they're slightly more dense. I know this kind of stuff happens all the time in older maps, but that doesn't make it magically readable.
01:16:974 (4,5,1) - The overlapping here is ugly as sin. I mean, I guess it flows well, so it doesn't need to be changed, but it still makes me barf to look at.
01:50:141 (1) - The end of this slider is actually outside the grid by one or two osupixels. Pretty sure that's unrankable.
01:50:141 (1,1,1) - This feels really horrible to play with the way you keep having to snap back. Could just be me, but I just can't get behind it.


There's plenty more stylistic choices that I don't really like (as well as really janky distance spacing on most streams due to grid snapping) but most of them are excusable as a relic of the time. Someone should really check that one slider though, at the very least.
shionelove

FrostxE wrote:

It's good to see a variety of mapping style in the ranked maps instead of a spam of 2015 beatmap styles that allow them to pass the Qualified section.
It might look poor quality to some people, yet it also looks good to some people as well, and there are relationship between the map and song so I hope it passes qualified. ~~
I love
おめでとう!
Kurokami
I think during the ranking process, every other game mode should have been considered as well. I know this is an old map, but I though the same 4 years ago and even now. Auto can handle this in CtB but thats because it is dashing faster than any human could. If this goes through so be it, else the patterns around the end should be changed a little to make it easier to handle. I'm not speaking about complete remap or anything like that, just a small velocity change to make those sliders easier a bit.

Anyway, I think the map is quite enjoyable though [Fear] was way better. Congrats~

Maybe Exgon will fc this.
Rockageek

Kurokami wrote:

I think during the ranking process, every other game mode should have been considered as well.
This is a really good way to think about submission and ranking, everyone should think like this.
Unfortunately no one cares about other mods when it comes to std map ranking.
Satella

Rockageek wrote:

Kurokami wrote:

I think during the ranking process, every other game mode should have been considered as well.
This is a really good way to think about submission and ranking, everyone should think like this.
Unfortunately no one cares about other mods when it comes to std map ranking.
because this map was made for standard, not for CTB.

can you imagine how fucked up all maps would be if you had to take all 4 modes into consideration?
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