Since this new update, we have the co-op mod in mania.
This mod allows 2 players play together with separated columns,
such as, two players can play a 8K map with 2 4K columns.

In addition, sharing account/login information with others is also forbidden, as is playing on the accounts of others

Well, if people plays co-op together IRL, they are technically just using the new mod, but it contradicts one of the osu rules.
You could possibly get a friend that is a really strong player to play the harder side and pass the map with good score and get pp, but then it is not your real ability to play a map and there is no way to say that they are cheating because they are just using the mod.
I suggest to make this mod unrankable and remove the score that has been ranked with this mod if possible to prevent more score coming from co-op. We will not even know if it is co-op because it does not show as a mod on leader board.

Updater and Admin must acknowledge the fact that different key amounts are different stories. This is just unfair.
And this is not just a skin update as you thought

I would say the best solution is to minus star difficulty and the full points when co-op mode is opened (like standard mode converted maps). The amount of star difficulty and full points subtracted depends on the keycount the original maps.

it is obviously wrong to leave it like what it is right now. Two staiains can probably SS akasha fever

btw Co-op ranking with specific co-op maps would be awesome.
I'm working on a 2x4K map (which is 8K w/ Co-op mod) to show the potential.

I agree
I was shocked when I just read that co-op scores submit
This shouldn"t ever be ranked in the first place

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Disagree. On the other side, why we didn't rename Co-op to Split or something similar?
I found this mod is useful for me, because it (Co-op mod) could assist me by breaking the chart to 2 stages (L and R respectively). This is similar like HD/FI/FL mod, that only adds graphical FX to the gameplay. It won't affect scores but subjectively easier/harder.

Ryu Sei wrote:

Disagree. On the other side, why we didn't rename Co-op to Split or something similar?
I found this mod is useful for me, because it (Co-op mod) could assist me by breaking the chart to 2 stages (L and R respectively). This is similar like HD/FI/FL mod, that only adds graphical FX to the gameplay. It won't affect scores but subjectively easier/harder.

On maps which don't have the co-op option enabled (99.9% of mania maps) it splits the stage, whereas those that have the option ticked and autoconverts properly double the playfield.

You can configure your skin to split lanes without using the mod (gaining the basically the same visual advantage), so making it unranked wouldn't prevent people from ranking maps playing co-operatively.

I think the mod should be renamed instead (to only indicate the stage split, and the extra amount of keys if appropriate). It is important to make clear that playing cooperatively in a single account is not allowed.

If playing co-op is ever allowed to be ranked, I think that the best solution would only allow co-op on-line (with each player having their own account, each with their own PC, both forming a team). Ranked co-op scores would contribute to the pp of each player depending on how they did in their own stage (not depending on the overall performance of the map). In the beatmap leaderboards, there should be an option to filter plays done Solo and Co-op.

Yes

Redon wrote:

I think naming it "Co-op" was an unfortunate decision if this system was ever meant to be used for 10K+ maps for solo players.

[ Jelly ] wrote:

it is obviously wrong to leave it like what it is right now. Two staiains can probably SS akasha fever

It's always been possible to play 8K with 2 players, but everyone understands that it's cheating and suspicious scores would probably be found. The only difference now is that the naming of Co-op encourages this behavior.

Yes technically people can still co-op without this mode, but this mode just made it easier. However I believe this mode was set up mainly for players to have fun not for them to get pp, so I recommend to cut down the points that they can get just like opening 4k mode on a 7k standard converted map.

Ryu Sei wrote:

Disagree. On the other side, why we didn't rename Co-op to Split or something similar?
I found this mod is useful for me, because it (Co-op mod) could assist me by breaking the chart to 2 stages (L and R respectively). This is similar like HD/FI/FL mod, that only adds graphical FX to the gameplay. It won't affect scores but subjectively easier/harder.

I think what co-op really means is cooperating with other players. A 4k player can't do well in 7 or 8 key maps but now they can play with another 4k player and get pp.

trjtrjtrjtjyjrtyjrrgjgjghfjgjgj

Rori Vidi Veni wrote:

waah somebody could potentially cheat on a mode that hardly anybody maps so let's screw over people who actually would like ranked doubles and more than a few maps done just out of novelty for them waah

Also let's just ignore the fact that you could do that already, just without a convenient lane split.

EDIT: I also just thought of two ways to create the split with skinning, ergo we should ban all skins.

You can do that right now or any time you want. But we are not supposed to provide you a better way to do that and ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO THAT.

it was ranked? wat.

hgdghdhfdhdhdhhdfhfhdhdhf

You don't seem to understand it (if I understand your post correctly)
That is a hidden exploit for the skinning system to ease multi-playing on one account
Co-Op mode encourages this bad behaviour
I have to admit, that you're right that there is an other way to do it, but IMO, that function in skin.ini should go away, or be the same between all columns (everywhere the same)

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I don't see how this mod affects ones ability to play cooperatively. People could play on a single keyboard before. The only difference this mod makes is it doubles the key count. There is no advantage to adding more keys.

The point is that this mode encourages and validates the invalid practice that two players can share one account and co-op a score which actually should be played by an individual.

And this has nothing to do with skin. It is an interface for two players to co-op on one song, not simply braking lanes apart.

Rori Vidi Veni wrote:

waah somebody could potentially cheat on a mode that hardly anybody maps so let's screw over people who actually would like ranked doubles and more than a few maps done just out of novelty for them waah

Also let's just ignore the fact that you could do that already, just without a convenient lane split.

EDIT: I also just thought of two ways to create the split with skinning, ergo we should ban all skins.

Splitting skin is totally different than the meaning of co-op
Before co-op, it is against the rule if you are playing with other players with split skins, it is against the rule.
Now this system allows people to work with other person (breaking the rules) legit
It is obviously encouraging 2 people to play together because one of my friend that starts a while ago came to me and asked me to play co-op with him.
I am a better player than him and of course he beat his own record when playing co-op with me and passed map that he could not pass

TheVileOne wrote:

I don't see how this mod affects ones ability to play cooperatively. People could play on a single keyboard before. The only difference this mod makes is it doubles the key count. There is no advantage to adding more keys.

For mania specific maps, it does not double the key count, it splits it. And most people that plays mania does not play convert maps and when they see this co-op map on a mania specific maps, they'd assume that it is encouraging them to find a friend to play together.

It is just like playing standard mode but with 2 people. One of the person controls the tablet and one of the person controls the keyboard. You can get a friend that has a really high streaming speed and your self is good at aiming to play together. This is not acceptable just like co-op.

Ryu Sei wrote:

Disagree. On the other side, why we didn't rename Co-op to Split or something similar?
I found this mod is useful for me, because it (Co-op mod) could assist me by breaking the chart to 2 stages (L and R respectively). This is similar like HD/FI/FL mod, that only adds graphical FX to the gameplay. It won't affect scores but subjectively easier/harder.

It might be useful for you and you are playing by yourself, but someone else may take advantage of this mod and get a better score which is not fair to someone playing by their self.

Full Tablet wrote:

You can configure your skin to split lanes without using the mod (gaining the basically the same visual advantage), so making it unranked wouldn't prevent people from ranking maps playing co-operatively.

I think the mod should be renamed instead (to only indicate the stage split, and the extra amount of keys if appropriate). It is important to make clear that playing cooperatively in a single account is not allowed.

If playing co-op is ever allowed to be ranked, I think that the best solution would only allow co-op on-line (with each player having their own account, each with their own PC, both forming a team). Ranked co-op scores would contribute to the pp of each player depending on how they did in their own stage (not depending on the overall performance of the map). In the beatmap leaderboards, there should be an option to filter plays done Solo and Co-op.

Even some players can make their skins split, it will not be acceptable before the co-op comes. If we make it unranked and people uses the skin and work with their friend on ranked mode, it will be against the rule.

Redon wrote:

baraatje123 wrote:

Co-Op mode encourages this bad behaviour
I have to admit, that you're right that there is an other way to do it, but IMO, that function in skin.ini should go away, or be the same between all columns (everywhere the same)

Are you joking? Split lanes aren't a requirement to cheat on 8K with 2 players, this can still be done with all lanes next to each other, so let's ban mania altogether because somebody might cheat? Maybe we can keep 1K.

The mod itself approves the cheating that was not allowed before. People can possibly play with friends without co-op and not let everyone know. Now, they can play together without afraid getting banned.
Such as marijuana is illegal, still, there will be people using it. But If you legalize it, it is encourage people to do something that was not acceptable before. In that case, that is when the rule has disappeared, but in this case, the one player for one account rule still exist which is contradicting the mod itself.

I think what I'll do is rename the mod to Dual-Stage, and make it unranked for both autoconverts and mania-specific maps. To justify it being unranked for mania-specific maps, I'll make it actually double the keycount there too, and mirror the notes onto the right hand side, possibly adding more notes, or splitting it up 50% of notes on each side.

I still don't think that playing a song meant for one person is easier with two people. Each key does not have its own rhythm. People are not used to playing without a good sense of rhythm, so naturally it'll be harder. They can get used to it, but I doubt many people will try.

jujuhyjuujhyjujuhyjujujujuju

Actually i personally think that the mod could still be called co-op and making it unranked has a purpose.
This can encourage people to play together (Why should that be a bad thing if u don't get scores for it).
Of course some ppl will want to keep playing with double stages as a solo player, but they could just add the lines SplitStages: into their skins, this will give them that double stage feeling to rank scores. (Cheaters shouldn't be considered on design decisions anyway.)
And it actually makes a huge difference, some ppl won't know directly that it's cheating to get scores with 2 players (coop mode). But they definitely can't deny that fact if they turn their skin into a double playfield part for personal reasons.

Blaizer wrote:

I still don't think that playing a song meant for one person is easier with two people. Each key does not have its own rhythm. People are not used to playing without a good sense of rhythm, so naturally it'll be harder. They can get used to it, but I doubt many people will try.

uuuh playing without sound is pretty doable for anyone used to the keys placement (which means anyone past the beginner stage).
Tbh I would even say that playing without sound might be beneficial in some cases, co-op wise.

Better just do this:
8k co-op will have two 8k windows with the same notes for both windows.
7k blah blah blah
Ditto for 6 and below.
Problem solved.

I'm pretty sure this will be a lot of work for the code though.

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

It might be useful for you and you are playing by yourself, but someone else may take advantage of this mod and get a better score which is not fair to someone playing by their self.

So you're assuming that this mod isn't helpful for other user?

And---yah, as most users are saying this;

Co-Op mode encourages the bad behaviour

I'm agreeing to make Co-Op unrankable, but why we didn't make another "split-stage alike" config on osu!mania ? The current skinning method is hard for new skinners.

Redon wrote:

It's not hidden, it's documented
It's not an exploit, it's a feature
It's not for multiplaying, but for players to break up lanes into sections if they prefer reading it that way, and for more ways to customize skins

I'm agreeing and disagreeing the last line. If we reverse the sentence into this;

It's not for players to break up lanes into sections if they prefer reading it that way, and for more ways to customize skins, but for multiplaying

then I'm disagree. There are so many pros and cons on stage splitting mod, but think about this once again;
- Is multiplaying on one client needs a splitted stage?
- Are we actually needs to break up lanes to two stages, so we could keep it up which hand that hits a note?

PyaKura wrote:

Blaizer wrote:

I still don't think that playing a song meant for one person is easier with two people. Each key does not have its own rhythm. People are not used to playing without a good sense of rhythm, so naturally it'll be harder. They can get used to it, but I doubt many people will try.

uuuh playing without sound is pretty doable for anyone used to the keys placement (which means anyone past the beginner stage).
Tbh I would even say that playing without sound might be beneficial in some cases, co-op wise.

Playing without sound is very easy if you're used to remember the song.

UNRANKED MODE PLEASE. *frustration*

I guess renaming it to "Double Play" should do the trick. I use this feature only to have 2 lanes going as it improves readability in my case. Also, there are 2-lane levels for one player in StepMania and bemani ports, so why osu! shouldn't have those or have them banned from rankings?

This modifier is cosmetic for the most part, and the excuse of "But co-op is forbidden!", while true, doesn't make sense because you can still do it without the mod, and unranking it would only cause those who find having 2 lanes helpful (like me) to get discouraged from playing the game.

From what I know most people use it for the same purpose as I do: Two-handed play.

Anyways, i am AGAINST this decision. It's based only on the implication that the name of the modifier brings, which can be solved by renaming it to "Double Play", which has existed in BM98 and exists in StepMania too.

TomoAlien wrote:

From what I know most people use it for the same purpose as I do: Two-handed play.

Because without the mod you have to play single-handed right? xD

About the suggestion, this just has to be done.

Transformau5 wrote:

TomoAlien wrote:

From what I know most people use it for the same purpose as I do: Two-handed play.

Because without the mod you have to play single-handed right? xD

About the suggestion, this just has to be done.

I get my hands mixed up without it. I just feel more comfortable with one lane per hand. I'd rather have it just split the lanes instead of doubling he amount of lanes (It's annoying to have to set up 3k + co-op mod just to get 6k two-laner). Yeah maybe we should replace it with a cosmetic "split" mod and just have the key amount modifier go up to 18k or whatever is the limit. IMO that'd be nicer.

If having 2 lanes becomes bannable then I'm going back to Taiko.