i guess, since we aren't really a team, u should remove "BA" from this page too o3o https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/The_Team
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Current system revision and new system changes
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The BAT is placed in "User Groups". It's not like osu! alumnis or the Tournament Staff are real teams.
i supposeStefan wrote:
The BAT is placed in "User Groups". It's not like osu! alumnis or the Tournament Staff are real teams.
blah "beatmap appreciator" still sounds meh lol
People aren't gonna stop calling them BAT for a while. It's a name that's been used for a long time.
Hmm...come to think of it:
Chat Moderators were previously known as the "Language Surveillance Division"
Global Moderators were previously known as "Admin" -> "Green BAT" -> "Global Mod Team"
The Beatmap Appreciation Team (BAT) were previously known as "Beatmap Approval Team (BAT)" -> "Beatmap Mod Team (BMT)"
I'm guessing that the "old BAT" are officially the Quality Assurance Team (QAT) whereas the "new BAT" are officially the Beatmap Appreciator (BA?) now. Anyways, I agree with xxdeathx. The BAT has been used for a very very long time ever since Ivalset created it.
Chat Moderators were previously known as the "Language Surveillance Division"
Global Moderators were previously known as "Admin" -> "Green BAT" -> "Global Mod Team"
The Beatmap Appreciation Team (BAT) were previously known as "Beatmap Approval Team (BAT)" -> "Beatmap Mod Team (BMT)"
I'm guessing that the "old BAT" are officially the Quality Assurance Team (QAT) whereas the "new BAT" are officially the Beatmap Appreciator (BA?) now. Anyways, I agree with xxdeathx. The BAT has been used for a very very long time ever since Ivalset created it.
I'm still all for the "Beatmap Nominator" or "Beatmap Approver" sort of thingKibbleru wrote:
i suppose
blah "beatmap appreciator" still sounds meh lol
Thanks for clearing everything up Loctav and co, people really need to understand the concept of this new system.
Well it's not called the osu!Alumni Team or the Tournament Staff Team.Stefan wrote:
The BAT is placed in "User Groups". It's not like osu! alumnis or the Tournament Staff are real teams.
Also Beatmap Nominator sounds nice.
Yeah, Beatmap Nominator sounds more natural.
Removing color, rename meh. Beatmap Appreciator is lame as it already said a few times. The given example, Beatmap Nominator sounds way better as we mostly nominate maps as you named the "rank" or "qualify" in the op. About the colors, removing them entirely I think its a really bad idea. Yes, we have no difference from being a normal user but being completely colorless can cause misunderstanding for newbies as they can't differentiate a post of "BATs" from a normal modder. To be honest I think no one reads the title itself, most user makes difference by colors. Its even easier to us "BATs" to find previous "BAT" posts in beatmaps threads while searching (for example) after icons. Color us to pink or purple or whatever but being colorless is just meh.
Changing colors seems realistic imo, but I'll have to read this article first q.q
MAT color please
/runs
/runs
Aren't we basically MATv2BeatofIke wrote:
MAT color please
/runs
just
...
without the T
I don't like being completely colorless either but I think his point is that being any color at all will have newbies confusing us for staff.Kurokami wrote:
Removing color, rename meh. Beatmap Appreciator is lame as it already said a few times. The given example, Beatmap Nominator sounds way better as we mostly nominate maps as you named the "rank" or "qualify" in the op. About the colors, removing them entirely I think its a really bad idea. Yes, we have no difference from being a normal user but being completely colorless can cause misunderstanding for newbies as they can't differentiate a post of "BATs" from a normal modder. To be honest I think no one reads the title itself, most user makes difference by colors. Its even easier to us "BATs" to find previous "BAT" posts in beatmaps threads while searching (for example) after icons. Color us to pink or purple or whatever but being colorless is just meh.
Nice thing someone finally mentioned it.Okoratu wrote:
Aren't we basically MATv2BeatofIke wrote:
MAT color please
/runs
just
...
without the T
So the CAT doesn't at any time their colour. They don't even have a title at all. But they still bring an important part into osu!. As well the BAT - whetever new or old - does/did. The only difference is that BAT members do not have moderation options anymore for good reasons. None of us here is better because he got this and that colour - just to clarify since it's for some a big deal being orange or black on the webpage. However the point is that what you saidKurokami wrote:
Removing color, rename meh. Beatmap Appreciator is lame as it already said a few times. The given example, Beatmap Nominator sounds way better as we mostly nominate maps as you named the "rank" or "qualify" in the op. About the colors, removing them entirely I think its a really bad idea. Yes, we have no difference from being a normal user but being completely colorless can cause misunderstanding for newbies as they can't differentiate a post of "BATs" from a normal modder. To be honest I think no one reads the title itself, most user makes difference by colors. Its even easier to us "BATs" to find previous "BAT" posts in beatmaps threads while searching (for example) after icons. Color us to pink or purple or whatever but being colorless is just meh.
brings the opposite what you're criticize here. for the most people BATs are still these people who ranks - yeah, ranks and not qualify - Beatmaps and being able to silence. I would agree with you above if you guys had no title. But that isn't the case. You have one - which clearly states out what are you doing. People aren't that dumb to be orientated by colours. They are more used to the old BAT's behaviour. And we finally should get rid of it.Kurokami wrote:
[...] Yes, we have no difference from being a normal user but being completely colorless can cause misunderstanding for newbies as they can't differentiate a post of "BATs" from a normal modder.
Since when is the word "Appreciation" or "Appreciatior" a problem?xxdeathx wrote:
Yeah, Beatmap Nominator sounds more natural.
lol it makes us sound like suck ups :XStefan wrote:
Since when is the word "Appreciation" or "Appreciatior" a problem?xxdeathx wrote:
Yeah, Beatmap Nominator sounds more natural.
I have to agree with Kurokami on this. While I highly support that we aren't 'staff' and we shouldn't be treated as so, having colors to help locate certain users on the fly is extremely helpful. Most of the time when I browse Feature Requests and Technical Support, I never even notice the Chat Moderators because they don't have anything to distinguish themselves with, which is, in my opinion wrong. Being able to identify what position people are in just from a glance is more beneficial to the community. The red name should be removed, but I believe another color should be used. (Purple)BeatofIke wrote:
MAT color please
/runs
I still don't see why we should be changing the user group from Beatmap Appreciation Team. I mean.. we are still a team right.. and we uh, appreciate beatmaps and stuff. If not, maybe change Team to Group? 3 letter acronyms > 2 letter acronyms since we use "mod" "bat" "qat" all the time for requests.
"Beatmap Nomination Group" / "Beatmap Appreciation Group" ?
Believe it or not but I really suggested to change "Team" into "Group". Then they laughed about the abbreviation... Yeah, BAG. D:Lanturn wrote:
If not, maybe change Team to Group? 3 letter acronyms > 2 letter acronyms since we use "mod" "bat" "qat" all the time for requests.
"Beatmap Nomination Group" / "Beatmap Appreciation Group" ?
To be honest this whole system starts to be much more like old MAT/BAT, just with BA/QAT. I still remember when Loctav said we won't go back to that but it looks like that systems still comes back after all.
Anyway, answering to Stefan. The system changed, the administrator powers removed from BAT and BAT become BA or whatever. Even if you won't touch the red color on forum every user will do not have power to do anything after quite some time. If you change the color of whatever "team" the user will get used of it same if you remove it. But constantly changing it will make users more confused. Don't you think making us colorless makes users think the X title can be earned by x amount of post count? Like Beat Clicker. We need some difference from normal users/modders. Even a bold, colorless name is better than nothing. Or just make the titles to be more easily spotted, currently the same font size used as for the post counter.
By the way, I don't even know who is in the CAT because of that reason. They are there and no one cares about them to be honest.
Anyway, answering to Stefan. The system changed, the administrator powers removed from BAT and BAT become BA or whatever. Even if you won't touch the red color on forum every user will do not have power to do anything after quite some time. If you change the color of whatever "team" the user will get used of it same if you remove it. But constantly changing it will make users more confused. Don't you think making us colorless makes users think the X title can be earned by x amount of post count? Like Beat Clicker. We need some difference from normal users/modders. Even a bold, colorless name is better than nothing. Or just make the titles to be more easily spotted, currently the same font size used as for the post counter.
By the way, I don't even know who is in the CAT because of that reason. They are there and no one cares about them to be honest.
"Bats are mammals of the order Chiroptera whose forelimbs form webbed wings, making them the only mammals naturally capable of true and sustained flight"
- i guess getting down to earth becoming BAGs isn't such a bad thing
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On a more serious note I don't particularly care about the name it will take only some time to get used to it.
"The Modding Assistance Team, formerly known as the Mapping Assistance Team (and more commonly referred to as the MAT), is a team in charge of bubbling beatmaps. They are easily identifiable by their purple-coloured names." - webarchive of the MAT wikipage
i think they had a reason to color these people differently but that may just be me.
EDIT: just saying that i'm not for going back to MAT or something i'm just saying that the concept of having users like that colored was once considered an ok thing
- i guess getting down to earth becoming BAGs isn't such a bad thing
----------------
On a more serious note I don't particularly care about the name it will take only some time to get used to it.
"The Modding Assistance Team, formerly known as the Mapping Assistance Team (and more commonly referred to as the MAT), is a team in charge of bubbling beatmaps. They are easily identifiable by their purple-coloured names." - webarchive of the MAT wikipage
i think they had a reason to color these people differently but that may just be me.
EDIT: just saying that i'm not for going back to MAT or something i'm just saying that the concept of having users like that colored was once considered an ok thing
MATs had no administrator powers (just like us), they got the same choices at answering in a thread. They had nothing special. So the BAT can freely be colored as purple since we are basically the same as the old MAT.
You all need to understand the concept that we are simulating modding v2; nobody who has the ability to nominate beatmaps for ranking in the future will have a color since they will just be regular modders who have accumulated a certain modder score. We are in no way similar to that of the MAT other than the usage of legacy terms (which I hope will change shortly).
That purple name looks cute. :3
Yeah, modder score based on kudosu count. The base of this system is already bad. Even I was added to this team because of my activity not my quality (said by Loctav). So instead of a quality based team we became a quantity based one. True, thats nowhere similar to the MAT. At least there were some quality.
By the way then what will be special about this subforum? You should just open it up to everyone since as you said we are just normal users with nomination powers. So every user should be able to post here and tell his/her opinion about a certain mapset. Moderators can come and remove unwanted posts as they usually do at every other part of this forum.
No matter how we discuss this, the concept itself is bad. Even the concept of the concept is bad. Luckily I won't be a part of that "new" system since I will drop out due real life job.
Edit (since I saw Andrea's post): I think that page will be removed as well since as its already said many times, we are not a team and we are just normal users with nomination power.
Yeah, modder score based on kudosu count. The base of this system is already bad. Even I was added to this team because of my activity not my quality (said by Loctav). So instead of a quality based team we became a quantity based one. True, thats nowhere similar to the MAT. At least there were some quality.
By the way then what will be special about this subforum? You should just open it up to everyone since as you said we are just normal users with nomination powers. So every user should be able to post here and tell his/her opinion about a certain mapset. Moderators can come and remove unwanted posts as they usually do at every other part of this forum.
No matter how we discuss this, the concept itself is bad. Even the concept of the concept is bad. Luckily I won't be a part of that "new" system since I will drop out due real life job.
Edit (since I saw Andrea's post): I think that page will be removed as well since as its already said many times, we are not a team and we are just normal users with nomination power.
Lemme break it down for ya
This system is more community-driven as opposed to staff-chosen. Maps that will be ranked are the ones the community wants to see. One of the parts of this is indeed a more quantity over quality approach (although the "quality" aspect will be handled by the QATs obviously). The "BAT" as we know it is not longer focused on such attitudes as before.Kurokami wrote:
Yeah, modder score based on kudosu count. The base of this system is already bad. Even I was added to this team because of my activity not my quality (said by Loctav). So instead of a quality based team we became a quantity based one. True, thats nowhere similar to the MAT. At least there were some quality.
That'll just add on tons of more work for the mods (takes ages for a thread to be archived, even). We work as a sort of beta tester for this new system, so its appropriate to have an exclusive board only we can post on to discuss things. Of course this board will be removed when modding v2 rolls around, since there will be more of a focus on the map's threads or whatever. Plus people can just post on map threads at this point anywayKurokami wrote:
By the way then what will be special about this subforum? You should just open it up to everyone since as you said we are just normal users with nomination powers. So every user should be able to post here and tell his/her opinion about a certain mapset. Moderators can come and remove unwanted posts as they usually do at every other part of this forum.
People should still have a list of who has the ability to nominate, just for pestering reasons. Also the way it works now is based off of usergroups, and any usergroup that the public has the ability to access will be listed (that'll change eventually though I guess, the people who have the ability to nominate will get some sort of special list otherwise).Kurokami wrote:
Edit (since I saw Andrea's post): I think that page will be removed as well since as its already said many times, we are not a team and we are just normal users with nomination power.
okLoctav wrote:
I think I can enslave Atrue and IamKwaN for some translation
I guess [ S a k u r a ] has done the translation, may need some time for proofreading or correction or something else.
Why this system was implemented in a user's perspective
So I basically agree this system being community-driven because that was originally one of the merits of osu!.New BAT promotion wasn't appearing for 3 months since 2014.5, and active members of the BAT were highly in lack. The system needed a change, and the following image from Aleks719 best describes that situation.
However removing the red username from the BATs isn't a good idea considering it's the ONLY reward that current BAT members receive. Also it conflicts with the concept of easy accessible from mappers. If mappers need assistance from an experienced modder, the conventionally best way to ask someone is contacting a colored user, which we call easily accessible. Sure we've got a list of BATs here https://osu.ppy.sh/g/28 , but the need to search for a list is already something hard to access. Actually removing the red color of BAT has a point because BATs are just "normal users who can put on icons" borrowing Loctav's expression, but I'd like to say that rather replacing the color to something else to distinguish from the existing staff members would be more rational.
Also some realistic (in my opinion) suggestions that I can think of:
- BAT-QAT Rotation
I know, QATs are a staff. What I'm saying is the opportunity to becoming an osu! staff should be opened. The criteria of becoming a non-staff BAT has been clearer and relatively easier than the past, but the criteria of becoming a QAT is much more mysterious than being promoted to the previous staff BAT. It's true that there are members inside the BAT who had commited inappropriate behavior that hinders them from being an osu! staff, but that shouldn't halt other users from getting their chance! Considering the QAT is a restricted group with a limited number, doing a rotation seems the most reasonable thing. Also reflecting from the previous MAT-BAT system, this can be a nice motivator to let users behave, and for BATs to improve their modding, or even their activity.
- Possible osu! Alumni for highly contributed BATs
osu! Alumnis are normally known as retired staff members, but are actually described as "known for their contributions who have since moved on." Even the current BATs are selected under a half-automated progress, the role by giving icons to maps isn't that different from the main roles that the members of the old XATs have done. tl;dr the weight of the contribution to the osu! community is the same with previous XATs and the current BATs deserve an alumni title. The next step to consider is to whom will it be qualified, like being a BAT for over 2 years, or reaching the monthly BAT ranking #1 for example.
wow Sonnyc, to be honest I agree with you in most of your opinions.
I'm quite agree with Sonnyc.
colored username is easy understood, convenient for mappers to looking for help.
colored username is easy understood, convenient for mappers to looking for help.
I agree with sonnyc either. It would be hard to find BATs or BA when no colour of their name and no list about who are them
Afaik the move to this board instead of Trello was because of modding v2.Lust wrote:
Of course this board will be removed when modding v2 rolls around, since there will be more of a focus on the map's threads or whatever. Plus people can just post on map threads at this point anyway
I actually agree with this.Sonnyc wrote:
but the criteria of becoming a QAT is much more mysterious than being promoted to the previous staff BAT.
This won't be possible.Sonnyc wrote:
Possible osu! Alumni for highly contributed BATs
You raise some good points Sonnyc, but we don't have the slightest clue how they decide whether somebody can join the staff.
^thisSonnyc wrote:
Also it conflicts with the concept of easy assessible from mappers. If mappers need assistance from an experienced modder, the conventionally best way to ask someone is contacting a colored user, which we call easily assessible. Sure we've got a list of BATs here https://osu.ppy.sh/g/28 , but the need to search for a list is already something hard to assess.
BATs are not the only people who are "experienced modders", non-BATs might as well be just as experienced (or more experienced) so asking help shouldn't be a problem so I would rather say
"If mappers need assistance from people who are able to nominate maps"if that's what you meant Sonnyc?
Partially yes, but getting a colored user will be more credible and less random for general questions if you are a new mapper.
do well and they'll find you, this is so obviousxxdeathx wrote:
You raise some good points Sonnyc, but we don't have the slightest clue how they decide whether somebody can join the staff.
Removing color would be a good step further to moddigv2 and if you not able to find out who are nominators then it most like your beatmap don't need one yet.
"Don't look for us, we look for you" The golden rule xD
I wonder how will look people that are both BAs and members of GMT.
1) Green nickname and BA title? Looks pretty strange with non-coloured BAs.
2) Green nickname and GMT title? How to identify that they are BAs then?
3) Non-coloured nickname and BA title? But they are strong staff members and should have coloured nickname.
4) Non-coloured nickname and GMT title?
1) Green nickname and BA title? Looks pretty strange with non-coloured BAs.
2) Green nickname and GMT title? How to identify that they are BAs then?
3) Non-coloured nickname and BA title? But they are strong staff members and should have coloured nickname.
Topic Starter
Unfortunately the QAT promotion process is internal and therefore, as all other staff promotion methods, not supposed to be disclosed. We want to underline that rotating the QATs from the BATs is not an option, due to how the promotion process itself works across the entire osu!staff. Moreover, it is very difficult to keep the system reliably running, if you exchange the members of the QAT in a frequent basis. Reliability is an important factor that, no offense to anyone, can not be fulfilled by many of the Beatmap Appreciators here. Anyways, any exchanged QAT comes from the Beatmap Appreciators. So whenever a new QAT is needed, potential candidates are all part of this group.
I also looked into alternative colors, but all my proposals were rejected by the game administration self. Therefore, we are looking into alternatives.
GMTs with BA powers are free to choose what user title they pick, like everyone who has access to multiple titles (e.g. Alumnis and Elite Mapper). Anyways, they all default to a green forum name and the "Beatmap Appreciator" forum title.
Osu!Alumni is no option for long term BAs, because all Alumni are staff members with semi-full access to all staff tools and places. Therefore the same applies here. We are also here looking for some alternative.
I also looked into alternative colors, but all my proposals were rejected by the game administration self. Therefore, we are looking into alternatives.
GMTs with BA powers are free to choose what user title they pick, like everyone who has access to multiple titles (e.g. Alumnis and Elite Mapper). Anyways, they all default to a green forum name and the "Beatmap Appreciator" forum title.
Osu!Alumni is no option for long term BAs, because all Alumni are staff members with semi-full access to all staff tools and places. Therefore the same applies here. We are also here looking for some alternative.