This whole argument happened because people can't understand this.Riince wrote:
Because it's all relative
This whole argument happened because people can't understand this.Riince wrote:
Because it's all relative
Often the absolute values matter more than the relative ones.Tess wrote:
This whole argument happened because people can't understand this.Riince wrote:
Because it's all relative
Tess wrote:
Also aside from HT I wonder what others think of the scoring I proposed. I thought it was a pretty solid way of weighing one mod against the other.
Riince wrote:
Spun-out should be 1.0x because no real advantage to using it anyway. On easy maps you're penalized enough by the spin being abysmally slow, on harder maps no competent players have an issue with notes coming after spinners.
As a player that is forced to use Spun-Out due to a physical disability in the arm/hand i'm holding my tablet pen in preventing me from being able to even get 200 RPM on spinners as a rank 20k, i would love if Spun-Out didn't give me -5% pp on every score i ever get. It really hurts my top performances by alot. Not only that, using Spun-Out, i will never be able to get into top 50s on maps even if my Acc % happened to be better, as Spun-Out also gives -10% score reduction.Tess wrote:
SO should be 1.0x because what Riince said.
The sliders are what makes that map difficult. I guess changing the way FL is calculated on sliders due to visibility would make sense, but even so, flashlight is mostly memorization, not physical skill. Don't take that the wrong way, all I am saying is that with enough time, any map that can be full-comboed can be done with flashlight. The buff it gives can't be too big imo.Yauxo wrote:
Dunno if that's been suggested already, but Iam not gonna read through 100+ pages.
Can we give FL some sort of lenght scaling?
I was kinda suprised that the FL score by rrtyui on https://osu.ppy.sh/b/541990?m=0 only gave 235pp, which is pretty much nothing.
I know that FL gives a big bonus on aim and that the map apparently isnt all that aim-y, but it is long and there is a shitload of things to remember, which makes it extremely difficult.
In general, more objects are obviously more difficult to remember. Easy/Normal would probably still give the usual FL pp, Hard a bit more, Insane and Extra would receive a bonus. Doesnt sound too bad to me.
ppdiff = 393.16 - 392.63 = 0.53handsome wrote:
do slider 100s really play that much of an impact such that they have a higher penalty than circle 100s even on higher-end accuracy? even though its a really small difference i found it a little weird :/
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/442221?m=0
The fact that memorizing a map with FL makes it FCable doesn't mean FL should be rewarded less, especially considering that, with the amount of retries put into FL, it wouldn't be so hard to get a high acc HR FC on a map you previously couldn't pass either. What Yauxo said is legit; the longer a map is, the harder it is to FC with FL, regardless of memorization or not. Even if you have the map memorized, you gotta keep in account that you have to aim at nothing, and the longer you have to do that the higher your chances of missing are.Bauxe wrote:
The sliders are what makes that map difficult. I guess changing the way FL is calculated on sliders due to visibility would make sense, but even so, flashlight is mostly memorization, not physical skill. Don't take that the wrong way, all I am saying is that with enough time, any map that can be full-comboed can be done with flashlight. The buff it gives can't be too big imo.Yauxo wrote:
Dunno if that's been suggested already, but Iam not gonna read through 100+ pages.
Can we give FL some sort of lenght scaling?
I was kinda suprised that the FL score by rrtyui on https://osu.ppy.sh/b/541990?m=0 only gave 235pp, which is pretty much nothing.
I know that FL gives a big bonus on aim and that the map apparently isnt all that aim-y, but it is long and there is a shitload of things to remember, which makes it extremely difficult.
In general, more objects are obviously more difficult to remember. Easy/Normal would probably still give the usual FL pp, Hard a bit more, Insane and Extra would receive a bonus. Doesnt sound too bad to me.
Pretty much what osutp.net did before it changed, though things would have to be adjusted for ppv2 of courseWoobowiz wrote:
I had an idea regarding more info porn. Is it viable to split pp rankings into 3 sub categories using the 3 weighted metrics (Aim, Speed, and Acc) for calculating pp? I know it'll put a little more load on the servers if we did this...
This would triple the load on the servers (ty based tom) and hence it's not viable to implement as of now.Woobowiz wrote:
I had an idea regarding more info porn. Is it viable to split pp rankings into 3 sub categories using the 3 weighted metrics (Aim, Speed, and Acc) for calculating pp? I know it'll put a little more load on the servers if we did this...
Let's say Player X is an HDHR player with 10209 pp and their sub categories consist of 1900 Aim, 1200 Speed, and 2200 Accuracy
And then there's Player Y that is an HDDT player with 10209 pp as well and their sub categories consist of 1900 Aim, 2200 Speed, and 1200 Accuracy
From this we can see that even tho Players X and Y are equal in pp, they have their own noticeable strengths and weaknesses.
Seems to be the case, everyone who has HDHR'd it has it as their top play or close to it.GoldenWolf wrote:
World's End is overrated, it gives way too much pp for how hard it actually is.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/136862B1rd wrote:
yeah that's pretty obvious, but my point is that song length shouldn't be nerfed just because of World's End.
This is mostly a flaw of scoring system instead of pp system... And keeping a large combo is way harder than getting 2 medium combos, especially saying from psychological way.Infevo wrote:
I can understand that a higher combo gets rewarded with higher pp values since it is a matter of focus and consistency but why is it that 2 misses at the very end of the beginning right after/before a huge combo don't really matter while 1 miss at around 50% of the map denies you almost all pp?
Imho the system should still reward a high number of hit circles with high accuracy partially disregarding the max combo during a map. Maybe don't give as high rewards but at least like 70-80% of the pp. Currently a high combo with a worse acc (95%) is rewarded much higher than a low combo with high accuracy.
It definitely is a flaw since people also lose rank.manjumochi wrote:
This is mostly a flaw of scoring system instead of pp system... And keeping a large combo is way harder than getting 2 medium combos, especially saying from psychological way.Infevo wrote:
I can understand that a higher combo gets rewarded with higher pp values since it is a matter of focus and consistency but why is it that 2 misses at the very end of the beginning right after/before a huge combo don't really matter while 1 miss at around 50% of the map denies you almost all pp?
Imho the system should still reward a high number of hit circles with high accuracy partially disregarding the max combo during a map. Maybe don't give as high rewards but at least like 70-80% of the pp. Currently a high combo with a worse acc (95%) is rewarded much higher than a low combo with high accuracy.
Mostly tv sizes with same star rating with longer maps are harder, but longer maps are in general harder to make full combo. It's very hard to balance this (the same with mods). We have to remember that there are a lots of flaws in both score and pp system (and mostly they are connected), pp system is newer than score, so most current flaws in general comes from scoring.Infevo wrote:
It definitely is a flaw since people also lose rank.
Keep also in mind this is supposed to be a rhythm game. The current system counters the rhythm aspect by rewarding a higher score a lot more than a more accurate and overall more consistent play. This might be just my personal opinion but I like to compare this with a musican who play a rather large and complex piece of composition. Now is he less of a musician if he fails _once_ during the middle of the piece instead of failing several times at the very end and the beginning? Cause this is how the current pp system works.
Also your argument is kinda invalid since tv sizes almost give the same amount of pp currently as a lot longer maps. But I understand what you mean.
pp: [Tom94] Don't count tag beatmaps in pp calculations of standard mode.what
point is theres still slider leniency so it would be a bad change and overrate sliders. slider leniency is still there, if someone leaves that slider before the last tick it becomes a 100 not a combo break, and ppv2 still gives him the pp for the play except with a single 100 which it doesnt know where that 100 came from. this cant be implemented until theres more information available.Tess wrote:
those sliders would have distance counted as if the sliderend were a regular hit circle with no slider leniency.
Tom said that the game calculates the shortest possible route through sliders that the player can take. Obviously that isn't realistic and needs to be changed so sliders are properly weighed.Drezi wrote:
I'm not even sure how exactly sliders are treated now. Like distance and time between the sliderhead and next note and minimum distance to complete slider is added to the jump? Or min distance to complete slider+distance from that point to next note?
Either way if it's merged into a single jump that is timed between sliderstart and the next note, it'd mean that sometimes the actual jump you have to do is faster, since when you don't have to move much due to leniency, you still have to stay there for half the duration (between sliderstart and next note) before you can move on to the next note, unless the direction of the slider and jump is not too different + distance is kinda even, or they're close enough so that it doesn't matter.
Also being too strict on leniency is like calculating jumps with the shortest possible distance between the very edges of circles, it's not realistic to play like that in practice. You don't wanna risk slider 100s or misses.
Such treatment of leniency is perfect when the path you'd take to play the sliders as singles falls within the sliderfollowcircle anyway, like plenty of big black sliders, but stuff like talent shredder is a different story.
http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/122374575566uberpancake wrote:
Aren't the sliderstreams in big black 1/2s? I suspect it'd get way overrated if this change was impkemented.
It's not like we (or I) disagree with that playstyle. Heck, I have scores on tag4 maps with touch myself. The reason it doesn't give pp is that it's inherently impossible to make a difficulty algorithm that works correctly with touch and cursor-based input at the same time.those wrote:
So I heard certain maps don't grant pp anymore, and that's because someone or some people don't approve of a certain playstyle. Why isn't this strange?