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What to Use Mods For?

posted
Total Posts
21
DegPixel
74 posts
Joined April 2013
Topic Starter
DegPixel
I guess based on some of the topics I've read in this thread, this will come as a bit of a stupid question to some, but I feel the need to ask it nonetheless.

I've been playing for awhile now and recently have been fairly happy with how I've been improving, though I'm still admittedly, well, terrible at the game. I always see people talking about "practicing with mods", which is a foreign concept to me, who was under the assumption that mods were what competitive players used to improve their scores on ladder for songs that they had already mastered.

Regardless, I see people talking about "If you're gonna practice X, use Y" or "X is more efficient than Y if your Z is bad", et cetera. The point is, I'd really like to know when to use each mod. For example, if I want to practice my, I don't know, reading? If that's even a formal term, then would HR or DT be better? What about accuracy? Surely both have their merits. What about the other mods, do those have any practical use?

Thanks
Woobowiz
412 posts
Joined March 2014
Woobowiz
Plain and simple, you use mods if you want to get more challenge/pp from a map.
xasuma
The First Completionist
1,011 posts
Joined August 2013
xasuma
To make maps more/less challenging.
Use a mod to make it harder when you think it's too easy, or the opposite is true as well (If you think a certain mod makes things easier for you).
AdamMZ
103 posts
Joined December 2013
AdamMZ

xasuma wrote:

To make maps more/less challenging.
Use a mod to make it harder when you think it's too easy, and vice versa.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
In my opinion, you don't even need to worry about mods (maybe with the exception of hidden) until you're like 5K rank. No-mod is the best for teaching the important foundation skills of osu!, such as reading and proper streaming. Playing with mods too heavily when you're a beginner can lead to developing bad habits.
AdamMZ
103 posts
Joined December 2013
AdamMZ
B1rd, just asking. What if he use DT or HR or both? Those mods don't affect the view of the players. Only affect the difficulty of a beatmap.

I didn't do this when I was new. What I did was play HT and NF in hard.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

B1rd wrote:

Playing with mods too heavily when you're a beginner can lead to developing bad habits.
Especially nofail.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik
HR is for accuracy and AR9.8/10.

DT is for AR9 / 9.6 and speed.

I wouldn't recommend you play these mods yet, at least not to the point where it brings it to AR9.6+, as you likely won't be able to read that fast yet, and you will end up mashing at that AR, not just cos of the high AR, but cos those songs will be too fast as well.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

AdamMZ wrote:

Those mods don't affect the view of the players. Only affect the difficulty of a beatmap.
Difficulty isn't one-dimensional. Both DT and HR will upset the delicate balance between all the various components of difficulty in the hands of an inexperienced player, leading to a lopsided skillset later on.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Dexus
Hard rock is pretty much useless and feels like a show-off mod to show how precise you can be; it's not reliable to use it to train precision for anything because it will put you into too much stress to learn comfortably. I would like to say this isn't a blanket statement because people on the higher end of the skill spectrum can use this mod to their advantage.

DT is hailed as a mod that is simply a mash happy mod. This is technically not true since you require just as much OD (hit window) as hard rock. DT is useful to simply increase your consistency at high speeds. The problem is people tend to play easy maps with DT and it doesn't really help them progress much.

What I would recommend is not playing with any mods and simply just play a wide variety of maps and always challenge yourself to be more consistent. There will always be some map that you can't full combo or even pass with no-mod.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
what Dexus is trying to say is hdfl everything
Noobsicle
674 posts
Joined October 2013
Noobsicle
use mods to get on top 50 scoreboard
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
use mods to get your beatmaps ranked
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

winber1 wrote:

use mods to get your beatmaps ranked
I heard you can also use mods to silence / ban good potential OWC players and cause controversy and shit. (Fuck, too soon?)
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

Dexus wrote:

it's not reliable to use it to train precision for anything because it will put you into too much stress to learn comfortably.
Anything too far outside your comfort zone will do this. You're basically saying it's not useful until you reach a point where you can make use of it, which is a given.

Dexus wrote:

This is technically not true since you require just as much OD (hit window) as hard rock.
This is technically not true since DT doesn't actually increase the hit window relative to note density. On low density maps most players will be more accurate with DT than with HR.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Dexus
Note density has nothing to do with how accurate you need to be to hit a note. It just makes it harder/easier to read ahead of time. Plus density is determined by AR and BPM mostly.

Od8+Dt = 20ms (-/+) hit window
Od10 = 18ms (-/+) hit window

I think OD10 is about 12ms but I don't recall. If you want to do real good training to be accurate then reduce the speed of a map and put Dt on with OD10. With decimal difficulty settings now you could emulate hard Rock but with harsher timing. But really who wants to take the time to do that when you could just listen for the correct timing.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

Dexus wrote:

Note density has nothing to do with how accurate you need to be to hit a note.
It doesn't affect the hit window itself, but lowering the density absolutely makes it more difficult to hit a given hit window consistently.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Dexus
dude.


Reading is the only thing that note density really affects and at that it's only difficult if you haven't invested time to play at certain densities. The way you remedy that and every other aspect in this game is simply to play more of it. It being whatever you're struggling with. Again, Note density has nothing to do with the hit window.

Hit window and how you hit the notes should simply relate to how well you're listing to the notes and clicking them, if you are in any way trying to relate what you're doing to tapping the notes in terms of timing with the visual cues (as in hitting based on approach circles, note fade, etc) you're simply going to have a bad time. It's a bad habit and shouldn't be re-enforced. I'm saying it's bad because it will gimp the way you can play; such as being overwhelmed by high note density slow speed or struggling to keep pace with low density high speed. The ears are far more precise than your eyes.
Karuta-_old_1
947 posts
Joined November 2009
Karuta-_old_1

Dexus wrote:

The ears are far more precise than your eyes
True for every rhythm game that doesn't suck
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

Dexus wrote:

Hit window and how you hit the notes should simply relate to how well you're listing to the notes and clicking them, if you are in any way trying to relate what you're doing to tapping the notes in terms of timing with the visual cues (as in hitting based on approach circles, note fade, etc) you're simply going to have a bad time. It's a bad habit and shouldn't be re-enforced. I'm saying it's bad because it will gimp the way you can play; such as being overwhelmed by high note density slow speed or struggling to keep pace with low density high speed. The ears are far more precise than your eyes.
Though it does become difficult to determine what tick you need to hit your finger to if the music isn't following a clear rhythm. A lot of song intro's are like this and that's where reading comes into play. There is a constant back-and-forth checking going on in my mind, as to how reading ties into the music. They aren't completely separate, but I certainly depend on my hearing first before I decide to hit the key. Reading just helps me narrow down what I must listen to and its place in the rhythm of the song.

Also I wouldn't go as far as saying density has no effect on your accuracy, since hit windows start to overlap at higher BPM's. With a limit to how fast you can tap as well, you could certainly rule out hitting notes too early past a certain point, whereas at lower BPM's you have to be careful not to hit both too early and too late.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

Dexus wrote:

Hit window and how you hit the notes should simply relate to how well you're listing to the notes and clicking them
Should, but doesn't.

You can test this yourself if you want. Make a map with repeated 1/2s and make a map with just one hitcircle, both at OD10. Play the 1/2s map a few times and note your accuracy. Then play the other map a few dozen times (or more), and average out the accuracies. I guarantee you your accuracy will be far better on the map with repeated 1/2s.

Size of the hit window relative to density matters in practice.
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