No because u all too pro. thats why u think its easy.
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HD+DT
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YES. PLEASE.Narrill wrote:
Can we make it a rule that people who can't play hidden can't talk about playing hidden? Plenty of people shit all over it, but none of those people drop sight-read HD FCs on the daily. It's way tougher than you'd think.
Somebody who plays hidden regularly will find hidden easier than no mod, and some maps become easier than hidden.Narrill wrote:
It doesn't matter whether people like hidden, what matters is whether it adds difficulty. And it does.
It's easier than you'd think.Narrill wrote:
Can we make it a rule that people who can't play hidden can't talk about playing hidden? Plenty of people shit all over it, but none of those people drop sight-read HD FCs on the daily. It's way tougher than you'd think.chainpullz wrote:
If there is any mod that gives too much pp I'd say it's hidden considering it makes most things easier as opposed to harder once you learn it (outside of a few cases).
Hidden doesn't actually raise the difficulty of the map. The movement is exactly the same and unlike a higher ar, the reaction time required is exactly the same too. Not to mention the margin of error is also the same.
The only maps that make hidden hard are the maps that have a terrible beat mapped or an absurd amount of hidden notes that require a more advanced reading level.
Yeah and Kynan finds HR easier than nomod, if you catch my driftbuny wrote:
Somebody who plays hidden regularly will find hidden easier than no mod, and some maps become easier than hidden.
The higher approach rate counterbalances with the circle size, ultimately making it easier to play.Varetyr wrote:
Yeah and Kynan finds HR easier than nomod, if you catch my driftbuny wrote:
Somebody who plays hidden regularly will find hidden easier than no mod, and some maps become easier than hidden.
All his scores are dt, so he'd play better as ar gets higher and the circle size isn't as much of a problem at his level of play.
High circle size is a problem at any level of play. The majority of people who find HR easier on properly matched AR probably just have bad low AR reading skills.
Kynan is a player that plays ar10.3 constantly.B1rd wrote:
High circle size is a problem at any level of play. The majority of people who find HR easier on properly matched AR probably just have bad low AR reading skills.
The trade off for a higher ar probably weighs more than the circle size difference.
Yeah so basically he played so many high AR songs he now finds AR10+ easier. But it's only because he's used to playing it, AR10+ itself isn't easy for common people.
Which is pretty much the same as HD, you just said it, "somebody who plays hidden regularly will find hidden easier than no mod". This is only true because he plays HD regularly in first place. I don't think anybody's 1st HD plays were better than their no mod plays, you have to learn it.
My point is, of course playing X mod can become "easier", after you've trained it up to a point it became easier to you, but initially it isn't. If the mod itself really was easier, then I highly doubt there would still be people playing without it. They don't play it for a reason.
tl;dr :
Which is pretty much the same as HD, you just said it, "somebody who plays hidden regularly will find hidden easier than no mod". This is only true because he plays HD regularly in first place. I don't think anybody's 1st HD plays were better than their no mod plays, you have to learn it.
My point is, of course playing X mod can become "easier", after you've trained it up to a point it became easier to you, but initially it isn't. If the mod itself really was easier, then I highly doubt there would still be people playing without it. They don't play it for a reason.
tl;dr :
Narrill wrote:
It doesn't matter whether people like hidden, what matters is whether it adds difficulty. And it does.
AR1 is easiest, we just played too much AR2-10 that we now find it easier
Hidden is easiest, we just played too much nomod that we now find it easier
Hidden is easiest, we just played too much nomod that we now find it easier
ar doesnt directly effect movement required either so neither that or hidden affect difficulty directly. circle size does though
Hidden is a reading mod. It makes maps tougher to read consistently, and it does so because nearly every map has stacks of some sort. If it doesn't add difficulty, why don't you play it all the time?buny wrote:
Hidden doesn't actually raise the difficulty of the map.
bcuz i dun liek it xd
play
plā/
verb
gerund or present participle: playing
1.
engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose.
hidden infringes on this definition
plā/
verb
gerund or present participle: playing
1.
engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose.
hidden infringes on this definition
Why don't you like it? What's not to like?
Some skins make the stacks easier/harder to identify with hidden. I don't play hidden very often but I can half-ass it every now and then (not for fc ofc). Based on that, I surmise that if I invested a week or 2 tops it wouldn't be much different than playing without it.Narrill wrote:
Hidden is a reading mod. It makes maps tougher to read consistently, and it does so because nearly every map has stacks of some sort. If it doesn't add difficulty, why don't you play it all the time?buny wrote:
Hidden doesn't actually raise the difficulty of the map.
Also, I'd argue hidden notes are more of an issue than stacks until you get into higher ar's but my struggle with reading HR stacks probably has more to do with inexperience than anything else. AR9 is slow enough for me that I can usually tell if there's a stack (note again I only half-ass HD on occasion, not for rank). With that said, while stacks are very common, hidden notes are much less common.
Pros:
-helps manage complexity
Cons:
-makes stacks a bit harder to read
-makes hidden notes much more of a pain in the ass
My opinion: the pros outweigh the cons in a lot of cases.
Edit: To address the question of why I don't use it based on my opinion of it - I would rather spend my time improving my HR/DT reading than spreading my focus to learn HD as well. When I can read HR/DT better I'll consider tossing HD onto all my plays.
I'm referring to hidden notes and stacks collectively as stacks, and both are very common. Obviously they aren't a massively big deal, but the two of them together present quite a stumbling block for anyone going for an FC, especially on long maps, as consistently reading hidden notes and stacks without memorization is difficult, plain and simple. I'm not saying it isn't easy to learn, but even with the extra clarity you'd be a fool to say hidden decreases difficulty.
I play hidden only and I can say the game is much easier after making the switch. It reduces clutter and allows you to focus on music instead of hitcircles, improving accuracy. I don't think it should give additional PP however. DT imo gives too much pp. All I need to do is tap faster. The circles are just as big and the patterns are just as simple. It only gets hard when triplets hit 240+ bpm, but you can farm quite a bit of pp on <150 bpm ar8 maps and get a good rank.
Why don't you just tap faster and go hit rank 1k+ then? Apparently tapping faster is extremely easy and the jump from ar9 to ar10.3 isn't even worth mentioning.Lightningtwilly wrote:
I don't think it should give additional PP however. DT imo gives too much pp. All I need to do is tap faster. The circles are just as big and the patterns are just as simple.
I can confirm that tapping faster isn't good enough for based cookiezi.
Lightningtwilly wrote:
All I need to do is tap faster.
Because I prefer the approach circlesNarrill wrote:
Hidden is a reading mod. It makes maps tougher to read consistently, and it does so because nearly every map has stacks of some sort. If it doesn't add difficulty, why don't you play it all the time?buny wrote:
Hidden doesn't actually raise the difficulty of the map.
Topic Starter
so is the consensus of our lovely debate HD = harder or HD = easier?
I am rank 7k and I can't FC 4 stars with HD on
and it gets worse when I try to HD ar8 and below
well its probably because I am a nomod player
and it gets worse when I try to HD ar8 and below
well its probably because I am a nomod player
DT is boring "to farm" HD doesn't give much but it adds up if all your scores are Hidden, not worth using if your accuracy is just 10x better without hidden
Because I really REALLY don't care about ranks. I just happen to play some maps and FC them sometimes. And sometimes they give me PP. Furthermore, I was generally talking about the hard maps at AR8 that people use to farm into the top 10k.chainpullz wrote:
Why don't you just tap faster and go hit rank 1k+ then? Apparently tapping faster is extremely easy and the jump from ar9 to ar10.3 isn't even worth mentioning.Lightningtwilly wrote:
I don't think it should give additional PP however. DT imo gives too much pp. All I need to do is tap faster. The circles are just as big and the patterns are just as simple.
You're all wrong. This game is easy. Look at me, I'm a no skill terrible player and somehow I hit rank 16.4k. I'm so bad at this game. This game is just EzPz. (JK thi game is too hard some1 help me plzorz) In all honesty, 90% of this game is personal preference and honestly everyone will find different things easier or harder. I can't play anything below ar 8.5 and am really yrash at those 1/4th slider jumps. Some people are better at those then tohers. It doesn't really matter. I find hidden more difficult then dt or hr, but only because I never use it.
DT is overrated.
HD feels like nomod on most of the maps.
HD feels like nomod on most of the maps.
With the amount of people who say DT is overrated I'd say DT has become vastly underrated.Husky wrote:
DT is overrated.
HD feels like nomod on most of the maps.
LOGICjesus1412 wrote:
With the amount of people who say DT is overrated I'd say DT has become vastly underrated.
True story tbh.
You yourself said that pp does not penalize big circles and reward small circles enough, which is part of what bloats some DT scores compared to the othersjesus1412 wrote:
With the amount of people who say DT is overrated I'd say DT has become vastly underrated.Husky wrote:
DT is overrated.
HD feels like nomod on most of the maps.
Overall though the big problem is that there isn't any reading difficulty calculator, only some extremely basic stuff like awarding AR bonuses to aim. Also, PPv2 doesn't take OD into consideration enough for calculating speed difficulty, so a lot of people are able to clear medium-sized streams and jump series on low OD maps without hitting the keys as quickly as required.
This. People also forget how map complexity functions when you slap DT onto a map. It's scary the types of maps Sayo and SnowWhite can slap DT on and actually read.jesus1412 wrote:
With the amount of people who say DT is overrated I'd say DT has become vastly underrated.Husky wrote:
DT is overrated.
HD feels like nomod on most of the maps.
I'm telling you, if the difficulty calculation had even a rudimentary method of evaluating map complexity it would be damn near spot on.
more like density than complexity
10/10, reading that excuse daily for sucking at the game.Lightningtwilly wrote:
Because I really REALLY don't care about ranks. I just happen to play some maps and FC them sometimes. And sometimes they give me PP. Furthermore, I was generally talking about the hard maps at AR8 that people use to farm into the top 10k.
It's probably because you can't play to the music. Has nothing to do with being a nonmod Player.[MY] yummy90 XP wrote:
I am rank 7k and I can't FC 4 stars with HD on
and it gets worse when I try to HD ar8 and below
well its probably because I am a nomod player
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrekt[-Cloud-] wrote:
10/10, reading that excuse daily for sucking at the game.Lightningtwilly wrote:
Because I really REALLY don't care about ranks. I just happen to play some maps and FC them sometimes. And sometimes they give me PP. Furthermore, I was generally talking about the hard maps at AR8 that people use to farm into the top 10k.
[-Cloud-] wrote:
10/10, reading that excuse daily for sucking at the game.Lightningtwilly wrote:
Because I really REALLY don't care about ranks. I just happen to play some maps and FC them sometimes. And sometimes they give me PP. Furthermore, I was generally talking about the hard maps at AR8 that people use to farm into the top 10k.It's probably because you can't read LowAR properly and playing to the rhytmn.[MY] yummy90 XP wrote:
I am rank 7k and I can't FC 4 stars with HD on
and it gets worse when I try to HD ar8 and below
well its probably because I am a nomod player
You wouldn't be rank <15k if you didn't care about pp, unless your highest pp song was at the very least, 170pp, and the rest somewhat lower. You clearly try for pp if your songs are all around the same range.