I know its boring to play 100 bpm ar7 3 stars but if you dont master the basics it will bite you later.

FlyingKebab wrote:

EDIT: Maybe it is just your avatar i dunno. But you give of that vibe to me for some reason :<.

I'm just being honest and direct, it's not like I'm even trying to be mean or whatever :<

Zare wrote:

in fact, 90% implies a lot of breaks, 50s and misses
in such scores, talking about accuracy is redundant anyway, because it only really matters in FCs or really close-to-FC-scores

That is actually a good point you got there.

With the way you're going, just don't come out in a few weeks/months and post a new thread titled "I can't read low ARs" or something like that.

Dm1321 wrote:

With the way you're going, just don't come out in a few weeks/months and post a new thread titled "I can't read low ARs" or something like that.

Im sure DT and or HR would solve that problem.

EDIT: There aren't a lot of Low AR songs that are harder, even though i am not saying at I will not play low AR atm (But i can see how one would get that impression).

Storm2344 wrote:

90% acc is low. try aiming for atleast 95% for starters. You should end up with acc of ~98% on maps which you can fc on one/few tries.

aw fuk bye

I feel like doing so would slow down progress quite a bit, would rather get pp from a map I can barely keep up with (just enough to keep combo somewhat). Would have to do significantly easier maps to get 98%, which isn't fun to play for me at least

Odbrah wrote:

aw fuk bye

I feel like doing so would slow down progress quite a bit, would rather get pp from a map I can barely keep up with (just enough to keep combo somewhat). Would have to do significantly easier maps to get 98%, which isn't fun to play for me at least

Yeah why bother practicing consistency when you can mash maps over your level.

The maps you can get 98% on at your actual level are obviously piss easy, so you don't realize yet, but they're far from all being easy. In fact, most maps I get 98% I consider them pretty challenging, else I'd get SS on them.

GoldenWolf wrote:

Odbrah wrote:

aw fuk bye

I feel like doing so would slow down progress quite a bit, would rather get pp from a map I can barely keep up with (just enough to keep combo somewhat). Would have to do significantly easier maps to get 98%, which isn't fun to play for me at least

Yeah why bother practicing consistency when you can mash maps over your level.

The maps you can get 98% on at your actual level are obviously piss easy, so you don't realize yet, but they're far from all being easy. In fact, most maps I get 98% I consider them pretty challenging, else I'd get SS on them.

It's not so much mashing (other than some streams), it's more the speed that gets me. I like playing maps that i can barely reach the notes of in time, or that have some nice patterns/jumps. I'm not saying getting the acc would be easy by any means (because I seem to be musically retarded), just saying I'd be bored as hell.

FlyingKebab wrote:

Dm1321 wrote:

With the way you're going, just don't come out in a few weeks/months and post a new thread titled "I can't read low ARs" or something like that.

Im sure DT and or HR would solve that problem.

EDIT: There aren't a lot of Low AR songs that are harder, even though i am not saying at I will not play low AR atm (But i can see how one would get that impression).

learning ar9.6+ is stupid at your rank, this will be the major mistake you would make. And there are plenty of low ar maps that are hard

If you get to the point where you can read AR9 but can't read AR8, then you'll try tackling HR on AR8 and I am confident you'll have troubles reading any AR over 10 as well. Even one number can be quite the change.

I just don't want to see you stuck in a certain AR like some of the threads around here seem to be.

at least he can't say he didn't get warned lol

Dm1321 wrote:

If you get to the point where you can read AR9 but can't read AR8, then you'll try tackling HR on AR8 and I am confident you'll have troubles reading any AR over 10 as well. Even one number can be quite the change.

I just don't want to see you stuck in a certain AR like some of the threads around here seem to be.

I can react to most AR9 maps already and AR8 isn't really different BUT AR7 is hell, it is very possible to get a good score but i just dont like waiting THAT long to click something. I guess it just comes down to finger control which i have not really achieved in only 3 weeks of playtime :3. (My ACC meter at the bottom shows i hit too fast a lot more often than too slow).

EDIT: Over 10? Do people really play AR 10.3 and AR11? (I don't really like AR10 itself and i find AR9 to be not too slow and not too fast (Im not saying this because i can't see AR10 (I can't click fast enough usually) but i think that AR10 is kind of overkill (And thats why I don't like HR)).

I assume some do, and that's what you would be doing had you gone down the route of tossing HR in everything.
Also, AR just changes the speed that the hit circles are appearing on the screen, so you're going to be hitting them at the same speed as far as I know. It's a different story if you use DT, but I may be wrong. Regardless, if you can't play low AR that means you're just reacting to the circles and not really playing along with the Rhythm of the song, which is counter productive and eventually kills your accuracy anyway (osu! is, after all, a rhythm game.)

However, this is derailing the thread, and honestly, it's really your choice.

And here we unveil the core and soul source for most of the problems related to accuracy. I am not used to listening to complex rhythm patterns and I only listen to music for enjoyment. I guess with time I will understand and start feeling and hearing more complex beats related to vocals and background instruments. I think that this current inability is what's keeping me from good accuracy and there is no real way of getting better at rhythm sense than just playing more

Edit: it is better to derail a thread into another topic if I got answers to the original question than to create an entire new topic or topics for small questions .

The thread no longer seems to be on the topic of the OP, but to respond anyway:

1) Don't play Atama Nogard, Gay Pony, and Airman at your current level
2) The main thing that makes the squares in Atama Nogard so hard is the fact that it's 240bpm and the squares (the first set, at least) have really large spacing. BUT the secondary thing that makes it so difficult is that they're AR9, which is considered low for 240bpm. Low AR makes things like squares (rotating squares even moreso!) harder to play because it makes it harder to snap. If you learn to read lower AR, it will make you more likely to be able to play patterns like that if/when you gain the necessary physical ability to snap to squares at 240bpm. The physical aspect of it is certainly the more difficult aspect to get used to, but don't underestimate the power of low AR.

I just like telling people to play low AR...

Would it be viable to slow down some of the maps i play to AR7 that have big spacing (Which isn't really a big problem) but not a lot of stuff on the screen? I don't think the screen would become very crowded, and it would still be low AR.

EDIT: Too much stuff on the screen nvm, i guess i will have to consider my inability to react to a lot of stuff on the screen as a weakness instead of a side necessity and fix the problem.

Dm1321 wrote:

If you get to the point where you can read AR9 but can't read AR8, then you'll try tackling HR on AR8 and I am confident you'll have troubles reading any AR over 10 as well. Even one number can be quite the change.

I just don't want to see you stuck in a certain AR like some of the threads around here seem to be.

Playing on AR11 is like playing with FL on.
Btw, I can't play big black on AR8, 9, 10, and 11.

It's difficulty that matters.

Big Black is a pretty bad map to give an example for.

Big black already has a lot of stuff with AR10 anything slower than that would make it impossible. (Although it is already almost impossible to read the sliders in that map, even players like thelewa have problems with that map (albeit not with accuracy ). I thought about it for a day and I can say that logically if you follow the song rhythm then ar is irrelevant completely, because rhythm is not a visual but an audible thing. I also understand and will reinforce my earlier statement as zare said if you can't fc or come close to fcing a map or in other words if you can not read a map well then accuracy is irrelevant at that point. I think accuracy comes as naturally as reading skills do.

FlyingKebab wrote:

Big black already has a lot of stuff with AR10 anything slower than that would make it impossible. (Although it is already almost impossible to read the sliders in that map, even players like thelewa have problems with that map (albeit not with accuracy ). I thought about it for a day and I can say that logically if you follow the song rhythm then ar is irrelevant completely, because rhythm is not a visual but an audible thing. I also understand and will reinforce my earlier statement as zare said if you can't fc or come close to fcing a map or in other words if you can not read a map well then accuracy is irrelevant at that point. I think accuracy comes as naturally as reading skills do.

You didn't think hard enough

The issue with low AR is not to be accurate on, but to read more objects at once because the object density is higher, it's about your brain being able (or not) to process high object density, nothing to do with following the rhythm

low ar hurts my brain

Somehow I sensed goldenwolf would pop in again.

Does high density reading have any benefits with maps above 3 stars that practically never use ar 7 or smnth? Or is it just for "I have the ability to play everything mode" ?

You will be more consistent if you know how to read high object density, less random misses due to bad reading in general

Lesjuh's DragonForce maps
DJPop's Joint Struggle and the likes

Banned Forever

Rainbow Dash


Atama




Freedom Dive

If you want to be able to play the actual hard shit, you will need to learn low AR

Lower ar? You mean high note density; right?

I played AR11 for half an hour and it really killed my low AR reading.

also I think there is a difference between low AR and circle density.

GoldenWolf wrote:

You will be more consistent if you know how to read high object density, less random misses due to bad reading in general

I completely 100% agree that high note density ***** me up on ALL low AR maps and some high AR maps that like to throw a lot of stuff on the screen. That is one thing that i will truly, really, over 9000 honestly say without lying to myself in any way.

B1rd wrote:

also I think there is a difference between low AR and circle density.

That's the point I was trying to make. There's a misconception that low ar is difficult; it's just that the note density can be a lot higher at certain bpm with certain ar. Atama no taisou used to be a bitch for me, namely because of the high density. Same with Scarlet Rose. I find that they're difficult because there's such a cluster of notes and I wasn't used to actually having to follow it note by note; I instead was reading the general patterns and moving quickly through them.

Namely two things make higher note density easier to read: practice self control and being aware of where your cursor is actually at in relation to the notes you're trying to hit.

what i do to get better at hitting jumps is make the map a higher CS and then playing it like that. i did that with gold dust.


this may seem irrelevant for learning a hard to comprehend pattern like the one you're talking about, but keep in mind smaller circles are easier to read, and any aim training will help.

Aiming isn't really a problem unless its like jumps that go from one corner of the screen to the other in a star form or something @ AR9+ and over 160BPM.

Anyways i started playing 3 stars again to begin training good accuracy and i actually found weak spots excluding accuracy like Slider->Circle->Slider which i a bit weird to single tap. I also started to fix a problem i had with ending sliders into circle stacks (I suppose i did not end the slider completely and that is why i got 100 or 50 on the stacks after.

I decided on a final sensitivity and grip setup of 400DPI Palm Grip (I have never used palm grip in my life since i did not have a mouse big enough, but now since i have a Razer Taipan with a 400 by 280mm Roccat Sense cloth pad i can actually move my arm more and grip the mouse with my hand thus eliminating earlier fingertip grip fatigue and sometimes pain for my thumb). On that note i have noticed that my mouse slowly drifts downwards as i play longer maps. I know that the Avago sensor in the mouse has anywhere from 1 to 5% built in hardware acceleration which for aiming is quite negligible but that sliding down thing is annoying because my shoulder kinda twists a bit (but i suppose this is because i am not used to the grip yet and i don't lift once because i filmed my hand on a fast map).

I don't know how long it will take me to get up to 97%+ accuracy and i suppose it will be quite awhile but i decided (after reading various threads that if you train your accuracy to be good then later on you can actually determine if a map is too hard to FC or finish etc. and that accuracy will always come naturally).

I still occasionally play 5 star maps to not lose reading skill/speed but i can say that those maps helped my reading and reaction skills a lot and now i can calmly focus on accuracy on sub 3.5 star maps and not worry at all about dying.

Self necro. On topic question: Jump pattern that goes from a certain point and just gets wider and wider and then shrinks back again. I can't read those for ****. And since it is not a geometrical figure the read it as single circles isn't really working here. Same with the the patterns that get so wide (but don't shrink back) that it really becomes a hassle to reach the last notes.

I always play those such that I know where the emphasized beats are. Generally it is on combo 1,3,5,7,etc. but it may vary depending on the song. What I mean is that I will hit combo 1,3,5,7,etc. with more force so I know that's on one of the main beats, then I hit the rest of the notes like normal (and with less force). It's kind of like drumming, where sometimes you want to be hitting the hi-hat, ride, snare (and etc.) in a "loud, soft, loud, soft, loud, soft" pattern.

Though this requires some musical understanding, and I do not know how naturally this comes with anyone else.

Repeating patterns in general can be done by focusing on an "anchor point" and then rely on muscle memory and periferal vision. Well, probably depends on how you play, but I generally just see that "okay triangles getting bigger, so draw bigger triangles". I get the sense of the distance by focusing on the first 2 notes in the triangle, and then rely on muscle memory to get the 3rd one. Sometimes... Man idk I don't really think when I play and it just works out most of the time.

Well i guess it just comes with experience. I have analyzed some of my replays on jumpy maps such as Airman/Eighto/Remote Control and other maps that are a tad easier. The problem i saw was this: My aim isn't the problem because i move my cursor fast enough and practically to the center of the jumps but I either 1. Don't click the circles for some odd reason 2. Click the circles too early because sometimes they start to vibrate meaning i missed a key press somewhere and I was WAY WAY too fast as a result. So I would draw the conclusion that i need better control of my fingers and I need to have better synchronization between my key presses and my aim speed.

Side Note:
1. Skystar maps are hard as hell to read QQ
2. Why are almost all electronic genre music maps (D&B/Dubstep/Trap/Future Bass/Techno/Trance/Electro/House etc.) mapped with low AR's (usually 8) and have slow streams and or squashed spacing. It really negates the whole point of electronic music being energetic. That kind of music should be all fast AR 9/10 super duper spaced/fast and have in yo face deathstreams <3.

FlyingKebab wrote:

2. Why are almost all electronic genre music maps (D&B/Dubstep/Trap/Future Bass/Techno/Trance/Electro/House etc.) mapped with low AR's (usually 8) and have slow streams and or squashed spacing. It really negates the whole point of electronic music being energetic. That kind of music should be all fast AR 9/10 super duper spaced/fast and have in yo face deathstreams <3.

Because they're most likely old
Also most electronic songs does not allow for making deathstreams, as they're mostly 1/2s with few 1/4s (or just plain 1/8s that aren't mappable unless you're trolling)

GoldenWolf wrote:

FlyingKebab wrote:

2. Why are almost all electronic genre music maps (D&B/Dubstep/Trap/Future Bass/Techno/Trance/Electro/House etc.) mapped with low AR's (usually 8) and have slow streams and or squashed spacing. It really negates the whole point of electronic music being energetic. That kind of music should be all fast AR 9/10 super duper spaced/fast and have in yo face deathstreams <3.

Because they're most likely old
Also most electronic songs does not allow for making deathstreams, as they're mostly 1/2s with few 1/4s (or just plain 1/8s that aren't mappable unless you're trolling)

You fell right into my trap Mr.Wolf huehueuheuheuhe. Most of that was troll but i would still like too see faster and more spaced maps for that type of music. More jumps is better than squashed slow streams. For example An - Artcore Jinja is a good example of a faster paced approach.

want to play squares? grind on he has no mittens and just keep trying it until you get it

anyways: i'm a kinda old player so I don't really have the same standards as you guys, but in my time I always tried to play the most ridiculous maps of the time and I failed horribly while that didn't help me with anything. Playing maps you can -somewhat- do (like 93+% and less than 20 misses) and grinding on them will probably help you better because you can actually find out what's giving you trouble to hit and you can actually train these issues you're having

instead of just spamming z/x and moving your cursor randomly at all those 7 star+ maps

btw artcore jinja barely fits with the song, it's horribly overmapped but we really don't want to get to that subject in such a thread

tl;dr just play stuff you can actually know what you're doing

Then again you had horribad accuracy at the time :V

But i have a tendency to learn from stuff that is out of my reach at the time i try it. I don't know how but challenging myself every time i play somehow makes me improve even in aspects like accuracy (which I find very weird actually). For example:

1. I wanted to get my stream speed up a tad and i found the map FD [4D], if I look at my history i see the first score is NF 27% and i couldn't even hit half of a snake stream at that time, two weeks later of sometimes playing the map and I sometimes hit a full snake stream and my top score on FD is a NF 46% now.

2. Same with Eighto and Airman which are 31% and 35% first play respectively, now they are at 58% and 64% and these two maps have helped me get big jumps down a lot.

3. Then comes Scarlet Rose, Mami Mami Zone and Talent Shredder all val0108 maps which helped me reduce my slider breaks on maps i can manage by a lot.

4. Image Material has helped me with my single tap speed although this is not a huge change.

5. Then the collection of 5 star + maps I have were the songs that gave me my current speed which is enough for the vast majority of ranked maps.

6. Hidden which I played a lot for 1 or 2 days helped me form my accuracy from 80% to 90% and HR which I also invested 1 full day in made me pass 90% to 93-98% to an average of 94-95%. Although since for the past two weeks i started playing maps I can manage without NF I have started to develop my consistency a lot. These manageable maps also made me change my play style so i am always relaxed on any map I play regardless of difficulty.

I do believe that playing these super maps will over time help me finally get the fullscreen jumps and patterns down to a point where I will be sure I can hit them most of the time. In short, I play a wide variety of maps each session but the only maps I never have played are the ones that I can do 97-99% because I don't see the point in that unless for some reason I like the song or something.

I don't really see why a lot of people fear NF, it's like everyone thinks repeating the first 10 seconds of a song is better than running through the whole song a few times even though you would have died. You are still playing the game and are trying to improve/have fun. It's like people think NF'ing is a crime or something ;/ .

EDIT: Everything i fixable, I understand that people might say that NF encourages mashing and things of the sort but that depends entirely on the person, if he or she wants to improve then they will try to actually understand the map and HIT something instead of jumps mindlessly mashing z/x.

Artcore Jinja: It's overmaped? Well that's interesting but even so I like how it is mapped, overmaped is better than undermaped in my opinion.

CXu wrote:

Then again you had horribad accuracy at the time :V

But he fixed it so everything is manageable or so it seems.

EDIT: I'm not encouraging people to go out and NF super maps but keep in mind that only playing the maps that you are very comfortable with isn't going to get you anywhere, I personally enjoy challenging myself in various ways and I also have things I hate (AR8/AR7/HR) but I still try to manage them. I don't really know the threshold for improvement but I don't seem to have one, even maps that I get 30% on I still start to manage overtime.

Yes that is a block of text.

On topic TL;DR: I will try to get good with fullscreen jumps and patterns by playing hard maps with these patterns in them, I will also try out these maps with HT to get some muscle memory in by actually hitting everything.

I play the really hard maps occassionally to boost my morale and to check my progress in the game. I find that it's good to play those kinds of maps only once here and there. I try not to just grind the map on NF because if I can't hit any of those notes I don't actually learn anything more. Once I see what I need to improve on that I can't do well on those very hard maps I immediately go back to 4-5 star maps and work on that precise thing.