I tried to look if a thread like this had ever be made, but when i was searching on some keywords i got 54 pages of results, and i didn't bother going further back than 2 years. Please forgive me if i missed something <3

Please read the entire post before making a comment

I understand I may be a special case, but I still feel the need to try to explain my situation, bear with me. I started playing osu! about 4 months ago, and recently hit rank 50k. I was of course, delighted, but the journey has however, been much longer than it would've had to be as I'm forced to use Spun-Out on pretty much any 2,5 star+ Map. This essentially means i will ALWAYS get -10% score, making any use of mods such as HDHR or DT barely get me back up to that x1.0 multiplier. I will always get much less PP for my performances.

The reason I say I'm ''forced'' to you may ask? That is because my right hand (the hand i hold my pen in) is to an extent crippled after a surgery i had when i was very young. After years of Hand Therapy i have regained a bit of my mobility but its still physically impossible for me to do the spinning motion required to complete a spinner harder than medium, even though i can play AR9 Insanes (I hold my pen quite differently than most people). And trust me, i have tried. I have played countless ''Spinner practice maps'' in various difficulties trying to improve, but at this point i have realized that is a lost cause.

I realize taking the time changing the way Spun-Out works and how it affects thousands of scores (Edit: I have been told old scores can't be recalculated, so only new ones would have the multiplier changed, if any of these changes pass) just for a single person or a certain few people is.. probably not something that anyone would do, if I'm honest. But I want to hear if there's anyone out there who could see my position on this and maybe, just maybe, work something out that would work for everyone. I understand Spinners are a huge part of this game.

Now, here are my suggestions. #1 might be most realistic but #2 and #3 should still be considered.

1) Reduce the Spun-Out penalty from 10% to 5%. At the very least, this would make it a BIT less harsh to use.

2) Remove any points you would get for the mod completing a spinner @286 RPM (instead just make the spinner count as 1x combo), and additionally add a 3-5% score penalty.

3) Spun-Out is made a constant 250 ish RPM, (or whatever is enough to do insane difficulty spinners), with a minuscule penalty (1-3%)

Anyone who would be going for Leaderboard rankings wouldn't use Spunout even if there was no penalty, since they could probably get a higher Spinner bonus spinning for themselves. But i still think a 1-3% or even 5% penalty wouldn't be the end of the world, at the very least, it would be ALOT better than what it is currently. If anyone has more suggestions to add or improvements to the ones i presented, that would be great

TL;DR: I feel the penalty of using Spun-Out is WAY over the top, my suggestions for improvement are outlined in red above.

Supportive Comments:

Purple wrote:

It doesn't even have a rhythmical aspect to it. It's just "how fast can you move your arm in this circular motion?" and "can you keep up?"
There are only about what... 5 to 10 post-2008 maps where spinners are consequential? And in all of those Spun-Out wont help you. It wont help you achieve higher spinner bonuses either because of how slow it is. So why have a penalty?

Shirokami- wrote:

Support, penalty should be reduced to -0.03x . there is no map that I have ever played in my entire time playing where getting a break from spinning would compensate for 0.03x reduced score(the spin rate from spin-out would need to be like 450 and it MIGHT be worth it). It already spins at an abysmal rate of like 280 and will fail on maps that require high Rpms in order to pass like those two long happy30 maps with the long spinner endings. There is no reason a spin-out player should have to use double time or flashlight in order to rank higher than no-mod plays.(barely at that)

Project Railgun wrote:

This would be pretty nice. I love playing 6-mod and SO takes quite a bit of score itself (even though it spins slower than top players).

There's been a lot of debate in the past regarding whether spun out should be ranked or not, but it came down to this:

Xau wrote:

Sakura wrote:

fwiw i would use spunout for ranking purposes, although i normally spin fast, doing so tires me quite a lot on long maps.

that's why it should be unranked

Sakura wrote:

That's why it gives -10% score, and it spins way slower than i normally do.

Imo there's no need to change current behaviour.

Don't worry about spinners too much. Most maps don't focus on spinners that much at higher difficulty when compared to easier diffs.

spin with your arm
thats how people spin fast anyway...

I really don't understand why was it given such a big penalty. Spinning as a skill is useless to begin with

You spin slow, cool, nobody cares
You spin fast, cool, nobody cares

It doesn't even have a rhythmical aspect to it. It's just "how fast can you move your arm in this circular motion?" and "can you keep up?"
There are only about what... 5 to 10 post-2008 maps where spinners are consequential? And in all of those Spun-Out wont help you. It wont help you achieve higher spinner bonuses either because of how slow it is. So why have a penalty?

I don't knowwwww

Purple wrote:

It doesn't even have a rhythmical aspect to it. It's just "how fast can you move your arm in this circular motion?" and "can you keep up?"
There are only about what... 5 to 10 post-2008 maps where spinners are consequential? And in all of those Spun-Out wont help you. It wont help you achieve higher spinner bonuses either because of how slow it is. So why have a penalty?

This is what I'm getting at. I can ask almost anyone i know how fast they spin and they will all say over 300 RPM. The really high ranked players can even get up to 400RPM. The 286 RPM with Spun-out gives you wouldn't even give you an advantage even IF it had no penalty.

What if Spun-Out was a constant 250 ish RPM, (or whatever is enough to do insane difficulty spinners), with a miniscule penalty (1-2%) or no penalty? I don't see how that would hurt anyone. Anyone who went for Leaderboard scores obviously wouldn't use it as they could probably spin faster than that themselves and therefor get higher spinner bonuses + if there was a small penalty that would also be a given reason not to use it then.

the advantage of spunout is more about the mentality aspect of it. spinners are pretty much breaks with spunout on and you should be penalised for having that extra time which could mean a worlds difference in performance

buny wrote:

the advantage of spunout is more about the mentality aspect of it. spinners are pretty much breaks with spunout on and you should be penalised for having that extra time which could mean a worlds difference in performance

But surely you don't think that few second break is worth a -10% reduction in overall score?.. I understand what you're saying but don't you think that's a bit much?

Support, penalty should be reduced to -0.03x . there is no map that I have ever played in my entire time playing where getting a break from spinning would compensate for 0.03x reduced score(the spin rate from spin-out would need to be like 450 and it MIGHT be worth it). It already spins at an abysmal rate of like 280 and will fail on maps that require high Rpms in order to pass like those two long happy30 maps with the long spinner endings. There is no reason a spin-out player should have to use double time or flashlight in order to rank higher than no-mod plays.(barely at that)

Also, this would change current scores way too much for people who have records with that mod
This is ano-no for me, just because of this
Otherwise I would agree with it

xDarkon wrote:

buny wrote:

the advantage of spunout is more about the mentality aspect of it. spinners are pretty much breaks with spunout on and you should be penalised for having that extra time which could mean a worlds difference in performance

But surely you don't think that few second break is worth a -10% reduction in overall score?.. I understand what you're saying but don't you think that's a bit much?

Competition would be so linear if mods scaled to how easier/harder the map becomes. But sadly it isn't linear and there shouldn't be any exception.
If you don't want to lose 10% score, then just spin...

buny wrote:

If you don't want to lose 10% score, then just spin...

I think you haven't read what i said. I Physically cannot spin even if i wanted to.

baraatje123 wrote:

Also, this would change current scores way too much for people who have records with that mod
This is ano-no for me, just because of this
Otherwise I would agree with it

Old scores would not be affected, only new ones after a potential update would have the multiplier changed. Yeah, we'd have to replay some of our best scores, but overall, it'd probably be worth it in the long run.

This would be pretty nice. I love playing 6-mod and SO takes quite a bit of score itself (even though it spins slower than top players).

Riince wrote:

spin with your arm
thats how people spin fast anyway...

it seems that this post has been ignored.

but actually i was going to say the same thing. If it's just your right hand (as in your wrist) that can't spin, try using you arm. This generally yields fasting spinning anyway, and many players do it.

I feel that although your hand might be injured, there are alternatively ways to overcome this challenge. It's extremely unlikely that you physically cannot spin but can play osu.

As for the spun-out mod itself...
In addition to being a short break, the player also does not have to reposition his/her cursor after the spinner, which can be a pain sometimes. Yea, there are some flaws, especially in spinner-less maps lol, but it does give a reasonable decrease for maps that do have them. Though personally I don't have much of a preference on what happens with spun-out. Decreasing the reduction to 5% isn't game-changing either imo.

Just a thought, why not let the spinner just "clear" the spins then? Like it will spin as fast relative to the length of the spinner so that it will just clear with no 1000s bonuses? Of course the max RPM will still be 476 but the min RPM can be 0 (or whatever).

PS. Didn't read anything you wrote but I read the comments instead.

NeVe12p4wNeD wrote:

Just a thought, why not let the spinner just "clear" the spins then? Like it will spin as fast relative to the length of the spinner so that it will just clear with no 1000s bonuses? Of course the max RPM will still be 476 but the min RPM can be 0 (or whatever).

PS. Didn't read anything you wrote but I read the comments instead.

That was actually one of my 3 suggestions but yeah, can't blame you for not reading the wall of text

NeVe12p4wNeD wrote:

Just a thought, why not let the spinner just "clear" the spins then? Like it will spin as fast relative to the length of the spinner so that it will just clear with no 1000s bonuses? Of course the max RPM will still be 476 but the min RPM can be 0 (or whatever).

PS. Didn't read anything you wrote but I read the comments instead.

This would make SO player able to SS Wizards of Winter, lol
The amount of score you would get from this one, would be way more than w/o if it has 0.97x or even 0.95
I do agree with this though