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Can hardwork overcome natural talent?

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NitBean
So, it's just an interesting topic in any game, but especially in rhythm games:
how much does hard work REALLY pay off?
I remember thelewa mentioning something about how he had no natural talent, but he got here by "hard work and guts".

discuss
Vuelo Eluko
talent will help you catch on quicker and really can be a big help but the skill ceiling for people with no talent and people bristling with talent is exactly the same. the only difference is who gets there first.
B1rd

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

talent will help you catch on quicker and really can be a big help but the skill ceiling for people with no talent and people bristling with talent is exactly the same. the only difference is who gets there first.
is what we all tell ourselves
takaharrue
I don't believe that there is such a thing as "talent". I think that the only thing that might make someone catch on to something quicker is just them having some past experience that helps them understand better (which can really be anything, not just experience in games exactly like the one they are going to start playing). For example, I think on rrtyui's ask.fm someone asked him a question and in his reply he said that he started to play osu! since he was already good in another rhythm game. It also depends on the current everyday environment you live in. Some small factors that might seem like they don't matter (i'm talking about things like the height of your desk or the form you put your hands in when you play) will probably add to the "talent". I also don't think that if you wanna be the best you play what comes naturally to you. If you copy what the #1 player does (how they hold their pen, or anything else), you could pick up something that adds to the small factors that might make you better, because what's comfortable or preferable to you might be limiting your skill level. Anyway, how is it possible that you are born good at flicking a pen and hitting a keyboard? So, yes, in my opinion, the only thing there is that will make you good is just playing the game a lot. What you could also try is improving your ability to concentrate on many things at once (you might not be able to improve it by a lot just playing osu!) which would give you a major boost in skill if you were able to improve a lot.
B1rd
Enter key bro.
Vuelo Eluko

takaharrue wrote:

I don't believe that there is such a thing as "talent".
interesting
takaharrue

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

takaharrue wrote:

I don't believe that there is such a thing as "talent".
interesting

It's all about the past experiences of your life from when you were born to when you start playing the game, different experiences will probably make you better at first over most other people, but they can always catch up to you from just playing more. And, this what I think makes someone considered to be "talented". Which, isn't really what most people think talent is. Most people say talent is what you are just born with, but that's completely different from what I think it is. So, I don't think there is "talent" in the way almost everyone thinks there is.
usa
is "talent" what people call genes these days?
XK2238
I remember that someone said "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard". The other one was "hard work can never beat talent when they're going in an equal amount of effort", but I can't recall which was whom.
Karuta-_old_1
No. People with talent can catch up to me in no time
eldnl
talent comes with hard work, there is no natural talent ...
Rewben2
"Natural talent" is only going to get you so far, and that isn't far at all. You are only going to get good from practising and playing, there's a reason that all the top players have been playing for 3+ years.
xasuma
What have anime's taught you? They taught me that the answer to your question is yes, but you usually need to go through a bumpy road to get to your destination.

Either way talented or talentless , they both need some work to get anywhere.
10crystalmask01

XK2238 wrote:

"hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard".
Kevin Durant (A pretty famous Basketball player in team Oklahoma City Thunder if you watch the NBA) said that quote.

This quote makes more sense then the other one, since talent shouldn't be slacking off in the first place.
Reminds me of that story about the rabbit and turtle race. And we all know who won in the end, right?
[ Stellar ]
Maybe talent starts off better, but as time goes on, it quickly diminishes.
To get to the pinnacle of a goal, one needs to work hard in order to reach the end.
Yes, hard work in the long run pays off more, because talent will only get you so far.
Aqo
natural talent is an excuse by people who refuse to hard work
B1rd
Well I suppose I'll input my 2 cents~

Talents, genetics, mentality etc. are an important factor, there are plenty of top players who all try really hard at being good at Osu!, but obviously some are better than others.
Golfdinger
I'm sure talent exists, but it's not a tangible or measurable advantage such as height in sports. For all I know, I could be the most talented player there is and everyone else better than me have just been working harder/longer. If I'm not getting as good as fast as I'd want to, it'd probably be best to always assume I'm just not focusing hard enough. There's always a bit more room for that anyways.
chox_old
it's safe to assume that answer is no
and those saying otherwise are most of the time just deluding themselves just like those who say that they work harder than rest as there is always someone who'll work harder than you (and if this person is talented person then you're just no match to him, nor will be)
deletemyaccount
Of course it can. Just because someone has "natural talent", doesn't make them automatically better. It just means that they have more potential; in which hard work is also required to "tap into" this potential.

just less work tho
Xcrypt
People with good genes for some specific thing will always have an advantage over you. It's not just about past exp. But even those people won't get far without hard work. The difference is usually that they just need less time to reach the same level, but if we're talking about expert level (10000+ hours), nobody can get there without hard work.
Blueprint
I think tryharding is a talent in itself..

I tryhard but I don't try hard enough there for 0 talent is what I think anyways, its more of patience in my eyes.

I watched a friend sit on 1 song for 1 hour to correct 1x 100 he had for an SS, I would only ever find the patience to do this if the song was like 200 combo max
iderekmc
and savants? xD
kasdeya

Aqo wrote:

natural talent is an excuse by people who refuse to hard work
Tamako Lumisade
Talent helps you to improve faster. Some of people has better feeling of rhytm, some of them has it worse. If I'd play on a piano for my whole life, will I be better than Chopin or someone?
GoldenWolf

Husky wrote:

If I'd play on a piano for my whole life, will I be better than Chopin or someone?
You won't know until you try.
Foneza
To be a 'natural' at something, it's like a god's gift. But 'hardwork' is more satisfying in the end. You're able to win 'natural talented' people with 'hardwork'. I don't know. It's just you have to 'FEEL' it yourself.

AND YES, HARDWORK CAN OVERCOME NATURAL TALENT.
But time will tell.
takaharrue
I guess some people must have the guide to play osu! coded in their genes somewhere. Huh, that's really funny. I guess I should just kill myself over and over until' I get that gene.

-_-
Foneza

takaharrue wrote:

I guess some people must have the guide to play osu! coded in their genes somewhere. Huh, that's really funny. I guess I should just kill myself over and over until' I get that gene.

-_-
I Feel You Bro.
takaharrue


Oh no worries, guys. I found it, I guess there is a gene that codes for Osu! skill after all. Wow, that's funny. I should submit my findings to a scientific journal.
Karuta-_old_1

takaharrue wrote:



Oh no worries, guys. I found it, I guess there is a gene that codes for Osu! skill after all. Wow, that's funny. I should submit my findings to a scientific journal.
where did you get this?
Vuelo Eluko

[MY] yummy90 XP wrote:

takaharrue wrote:



Oh no worries, guys. I found it, I guess there is a gene that codes for Osu! skill after all. Wow, that's funny. I should submit my findings to a scientific journal.
where did you get this?
probably mad it himself

edit: im leaving that typo there
nrl
There's a pretty big misconception here that "talent" is some sort of baseline level of skill, and that's not really true. Rather, it represents your ability to learn that skill. It isn't a substitute for hard work, it's a supplement. Because of this, it's both totally possible and completely impossible to overcome natural talent with hard work; you don't need natural talent at all, but if you had more of it you would undoubtedly be a better player than you are currently.
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