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Mirror Mod and Near poetic reasons implementation is a must.

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Total Posts
136
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +957
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Heibel
812 posts
Joined July 2011
Heibel
This really just sounds like an "easy way out" rather than having to actually practice hard patterns in maps.

"Damn this map is hard with all those bottom right jumps... lets just change how the entire map is supposed to work and flip it so i don't have to practice anything to beat it,"

If this was to be implemented i would want it to not give any score at all because i really only see it as an easy way out.
All of everything this mod can do, can be overcome by actually playing the game


^My opinion, live with it
Coffee Hero
Coffee Hero
Yea just turn on the reflected mod and literally never miss, get all 300's and get #1's on all maps 1st try.
Tari
osu! Alumni
1,671 posts
Joined July 2012
Tari

TSC wrote:

Yea just turn on the reflected mod and literally never miss, get all 300's and get #1's on all maps 1st try.
So not true
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
I could see this being added as an unranked mod, like Random in mania. Deciding on a ranked score for it would cause a lot of problems.
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

Raiku wrote:

bro-out (also im not trying to dumb down the game, im trying to give people an oppurtunity to practice both ways if they see a pattern they like in the map. consider that im just thinking about the community, just like you i have absolutely no problem with ccw patterns. furthermore the respect of mappers doesnt at all come into the equation if you give it some thought as its a MODIFIER. just like hardrock. does the implementation of hardrock disrespect mappers?)
I don't play osu! standard much but had no idea that HR literally flipped the map until just checking now -- if HR exists and can be played for rank then there's really no reason that mirror can't be for other modes, considering it wouldn't be the first implementation of something like this. That is just as "offending" to beat-mappers because it is changing patterns outside of how they are intended; you are completely correct with this post.
Raiku
238 posts
Joined April 2012
Topic Starter
Raiku
i never expected this post to get so much attention, maybe 2 stars or something at most. took me 10 mins and im glad the time i invested has sparked such a wonderful debate, however i would appreciate less comments like 'you are dumbing down the game' and 'respect mappers please' and 'stop gay', because in reality, i came up with this in 10 minutes and didnt give it much thought.

On a side note, i fully FULLY back this as an unranked mod and nothing more, so out of respect for me and my post, end the shitstorm now and consider this my OPINION rather than outright disrespect to mappers, which if you know me as a modder, is completely untrue.

constructive criticism only from now on without being abrasive as a few of you have been, it makes forums a much better place to be.

thanks!
Buxxy
9 posts
Joined January 2012
Buxxy
This isn't very hard to achieve through normal means (flip screen & tablet, right). However, it's quite a hassle to actually do it every time you want to flip a beatmap. Could probably be automated with a script or program, though, but I don't think anyone's taken it that far yet?

I'd like to point out Soaprman's argument again, because I fully agree with this. It's an equality vs. equity thing.

Soaprman wrote:

This isn't a step down in difficulty. It's a step to the side. It is exactly the same map, but flipped. There is no reason this should be anything but x1.0.

I should also note that this is a usability request. It's about comfort. It's akin to a left-handed person asking for some lefty scissors. Though I support it also because it sounds fun.

Aside from this, I'd like to point out that by many beatmaps being centred around right-hand oriented play, left-handed players have had an advantage all along, right? Now that's food for thought!
Raiku
238 posts
Joined April 2012
Topic Starter
Raiku
tasty food indeed
256_old
256_old
I think there should be a compromise considering the points:

1. peppy don't want a practice mode
2. left-handed players are at disadvantage, or at an advantage according to Buxxy
3. right-handed players can benefit by flipping selectively (i.e. "being lazy")
4. the intention of the mapper (mainly movement of hand)
5. left hand is a mirror of right hand over y-axis

The compromise, sounding ridiculous, is to register an account as left-handed and flip ALL maps, but it is too radical and has consequences. But that has nothing to do with the request. The mod is useless, and as stated, you can manually flip it if for practice. If it seems troublesome to you, you can always automate the flipping using some sort of programming wizardry.
teasp00n
40 posts
Joined October 2013
teasp00n
No.. Just no.
Raiku
238 posts
Joined April 2012
Topic Starter
Raiku
wow 600 stars
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412
This should have a 0.5% modifier or lower if added, I personally think this is a terrible idea for a mod and you should just learn to play parts you can't do.

I can not see this being a ranked mod and I don't think it should be, if you want to flip the map then ctrl+a ctrl+j in the editor and voilà.
aBunny
158 posts
Joined September 2013
aBunny
1. Some people who have difficulty with certain patterns use certain sides of their brains to overcome them. This use of each side is apparent in the directions people spin, those who spin right predominantly use their right half to calculate and left use left etc. (Note: this is only my theoretical thinking, not based on solid research conducted by I.)

left is counter clock wise, right is clock wise? i dont... correct me please. this is confusing

as others have said, because this skips the practice of some patterns that people are not comfortable with, its better with a lower score multipler. like 0.9x or something i dont know
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

sarasseo wrote:

1. Some people who have difficulty with certain patterns use certain sides of their brains to overcome them. This use of each side is apparent in the directions people spin, those who spin right predominantly use their right half to calculate and left use left etc. (Note: this is only my theoretical thinking, not based on solid research conducted by I.)

left is counter clock wise, right is clock wise? i dont... correct me please. this is confusing

as others have said, because this skips the practice of some patterns that people are not comfortable with, its better with a lower score multipler. like 0.9x or something i dont know
0.9x is way too big for a mod like this, people underestimate how much it helps. If you have problems with a pattern that is your fault and your fault only, you shouldn't have your hand held by a mod.
Alchemi
33 posts
Joined October 2012
Alchemi
I haven't really noticed much difference between a map and an H-flipped version, to be honest. I thought it might help, and a certain map, since I have problems with a certain pattern, however, I obtained exactly the same results. Almost the same accuracy, and same combo.
WolfCoder
182 posts
Joined June 2009
WolfCoder
I've played some maps where the notes circle one way, stop, and then circle the other way. And if you believe in the split brain thing, just switch hands. Mirroring the osu map doesn't magically swap your brain and you're still using the same hands for the same things.
bwross
265 posts
Joined December 2009
bwross
Brain lateralization (aka left-brain vs right-brain) is probably not a factor here, it's seldom actually a factor in anything (regardless of what many people think). If it was, I'd be spinning withershins. There is a preference for direction of rotation and diagonal, but that's just a personal thing with some bias for handedness. But it's not really a good reason for doing this in my opinion, because a good mapper shouldn't be mapping in a way that shows a preference. Ideally, it would be nice if this was checked somewhere in the moderation process, but it isn't really so important. Just know mappers, that there is at least one person that gets a kick out of seeing a map where the approaches to spinners have been made in opposite directions. And given my predilection for that sort of thing, I can't really support mirroring because of it... because it would be pointless in a world where all maps are neutral to the effect.

I'm certainly not buying it on the ideal of "useability". The left handed people I know have long since learned how to use a pair of right handed scissors with their left hand (whereas my cross dominance leads me to try using them left handed and failing because I can only use them mirrored from how I use them in my right). Some have even pointed out their dislike for using left handed ones (or even a mouse on the left side)... they've simply adapted to doing it offhand to the point that they gained cross dominance with the tool. In any case, the factor is too minor here to interfere with usability... it's an easy skill to learn to be effectively neutral (if not totally), unless you're being forced to play offhand (I did this for a while).
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

Alchemi wrote:

I haven't really noticed much difference between a map and an H-flipped version, to be honest. I thought it might help, and a certain map, since I have problems with a certain pattern, however, I obtained exactly the same results. Almost the same accuracy, and same combo.
Then you can't do the map at all.
Alchemi
33 posts
Joined October 2012
Alchemi
That depends on what you call to "do" a map.
ChicagoTed
75 posts
Joined July 2013
ChicagoTed
I don't think there's a way this mod can be implemented without upsetting people.
I agree with things such as the following:

jesus1412 wrote:

0.9x is way too big for a mod like this, people underestimate how much it helps.
At first reading this I thought it would be a great idea to have this as RANKED to help the left handed people have a fair shot at stuff without having to put in the extra effort that isn't needed from a right handed person, but now I realise that it could be taken advantage of by right handed people to get better scores on maps that originally had more difficult patterns. A opposing argument would be that a right handed person would need the Mirror mod to get a score like the left handed person would on this kind of map that is more difficult for right handed people. If this mod were to be added, from what I've gathered most people would like it to be unranked or for it to not exist in the first place, which makes me feel sorry for the lefties - I think that as a community we could make it work, even if it didn't work straight away we'd even it out and make it more of a fair mod over time and maybe even to the point where it's ranked.
I support this.
I'm right handed. ^.^
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

ChicagoTed7172 wrote:

I don't think there's a way this mod can be implemented without upsetting people.
I agree with things such as the following:

jesus1412 wrote:

0.9x is way too big for a mod like this, people underestimate how much it helps.
At first reading this I thought it would be a great idea to have this as RANKED to help the left handed people have a fair shot at stuff without having to put in the extra effort that isn't needed from a right handed person, but now I realise that it could be taken advantage of by right handed people to get better scores on maps that originally had more difficult patterns. A opposing argument would be that a right handed person would need the Mirror mod to get a score like the left handed person would on this kind of map that is more difficult for right handed people. If this mod were to be added, from what I've gathered most people would like it to be unranked or for it to not exist in the first place, which makes me feel sorry for the lefties - I think that as a community we could make it work, even if it didn't work straight away we'd even it out and make it more of a fair mod over time and maybe even to the point where it's ranked.
I support this.
I'm right handed. ^.^
Sorry but I totally have 0 believe that some patterns are "easier" depending on which hand you use primarily, if anything it would be based on the direction you intuitively spin which would be in the direction of patterns you would find easier.
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
I'm loving the conspiracy about maps being centered around right handed play

like any mapper would think about that while making maps

OH HMM NEED TO MAKE A FEW PATTERNS THAT ONLY RIGHT HANDED PEOPLE CAN CLEAR HMMMM oh wait that's impossible

whatever extra difficulty there is in playing certain patterns, it comes from the way you spin.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
+1 for unranked for sure.
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445

thelewa wrote:

whatever extra difficulty there is in playing certain patterns, it comes from the way you spin.
This is actually very true and once I found out about it changed how I approach spinners.

See, I spin clockwise, which is less common than counterclockwise.
I found that people who played my maps had trouble at my spinners because my patterns would send them in a clockwise motion before they reached a spinner.
Now I make it a point to send the player in a counterclockwise motion before a spinner, even though I personally prefer it as clockwise.

If there was a mirror function I would not have to worry about messing up spinners for clockwise players like myself.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
If this was implemented, it would need to have a score reduction in my opinion.
ChicagoTed
75 posts
Joined July 2013
ChicagoTed

jesus1412 wrote:

Sorry but I totally have 0 believe that some patterns are "easier" depending on which hand you use primarily, if anything it would be based on the direction you intuitively spin which would be in the direction of patterns you would find easier.
I remember on a map I played before, where there were a couple of jumps in a triangle shape, some of them were clockwise, the others being anti-clockwise and I always at least missed one of the circles in the clockwise pattern but could do the anti-clockwise one almost perfectly nine out of ten times I tried it. I'm sorry I don't remember the map, and I know that a Mirror mod wouldn't exactly help in that case because it was all in the same beatmap, but I assume this kind of thing happened to everyone. After a while I got around this clockwise pattern by practicing it over and over again until I could finally do it well, but still never could do it as well as the way I spin.

P.S. still nobody came up with an idea for the image for the mirror mod?
Saint_old
112 posts
Joined May 2012
Saint_old

ChicagoTed7172 wrote:

P.S. still nobody came up with an idea for the image for the mirror mod?


r8
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,656 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy

ChicagoTed7172 wrote:

P.S. still nobody came up with an idea for the image for the mirror mod?


I'm imagining as a nice CTB mod because Hard Rock's flip has no effect unless I failed to notice it.
Kayla
259 posts
Joined August 2013
Kayla

peppy wrote:

If this was implemented, it would need to have a score reduction in my opinion.
Unranked? ;~; I'd like it just to play maps mirrored.
Gigo
266 posts
Joined March 2013
Gigo

ChicagoTed7172 wrote:

P.S. still nobody came up with an idea for the image for the mirror mod?
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower
Why not try to improve your performance? lol.

Support if this is unranked or score reduced.
ChicagoTed
75 posts
Joined July 2013
ChicagoTed
Heh.. I don't suppose there's any point trying to think of a way to implement a Mirror mod into Taiko? :P
Raiku
238 posts
Joined April 2012
Topic Starter
Raiku

ChicagoTed7172 wrote:

Heh.. I don't suppose there's any point trying to think of a way to implement a Mirror mod into Taiko? :P
Some people might like to play taiko where the notes come from the other side!
Raiku
238 posts
Joined April 2012
Topic Starter
Raiku

dorothy3242 wrote:

ChicagoTed7172 wrote:

P.S. still nobody came up with an idea for the image for the mirror mod?


I'm imagining as a nice CTB mod because Hard Rock's flip has no effect unless I failed to notice it.
Really nice creation for the icon!
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
NixXSkate
The mirror mod icon shall connect directly to your webcam and use the video as an icon.
NachOx
310 posts
Joined February 2014
NachOx
Support! :<
Lanturn
osu! Alumni
3,912 posts
Joined March 2012
Lanturn
as long as the Beatmap's BG, SB, and Video all get mirrored. I'm totally in for this :D (7 mod here I come!)
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
Sounds like a fun practice mod, but by no means should this ever be a ranked mod. Patterns are made and intended as they are. Chaning it alters the map drastically and thus not making the map equal of an experience to every player. And because of that the scores cannot be equally based. Though I would like to see a whole lot of these practice mods. Target practice is insanely fun as well. Having a whole folder filled with these type of unranked mods would be dandy.
Raiku
238 posts
Joined April 2012
Topic Starter
Raiku

GladiOol wrote:

Sounds like a fun practice mod, but by no means should this ever be a ranked mod. Patterns are made and intended as they are. Chaning it alters the map drastically and thus not making the map equal of an experience to every player. And because of that the scores cannot be equally based. Though I would like to see a whole lot of these practice mods. Target practice is insanely fun as well. Having a whole folder filled with these type of unranked mods would be dandy.
agree
Big
30 posts
Joined January 2013
Big
Oh for the love of god please
For me it almost seems like my brain makes me try to create shortcuts in a map if I try it too many times, which leads to me lazily missing notes. This just sounds amazing!
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