Precisely my point. osu!mania players can accomplish similar results by changing their scroll direction and reversing their key mappings.Primula wrote:
Temp solution: Flip your monitor and your tablet mapping.
forum
Mirror Mod and Near poetic reasons implementation is a must.
posted
Total Posts
136
And a correct skin of course.Primula wrote:
Temp solution: Flip your monitor and your tablet mapping.
EDIT2: Okay, I can. I 100% support this now that it can already be done, just in an inconvenient way.
Or CTRL + A then CTRL + H in the editor...Halogen- wrote:
Precisely my point. osu!mania players can accomplish similar results by changing their scroll direction and reversing their key mappings.Primula wrote:
Temp solution: Flip your monitor and your tablet mapping.
It's a mission to do... and that's why no one does it.Ekaru wrote:
EDIT2: Okay, I can. I 100% support this now that it can already be done, just in an inconvenient way.
But I suppose when you make something possible, with the game as it is currently, it does kind of dissolve the argument.
I can see that some players can benefit from the layout modification, but if it's x1.0, that would be unfair for the ones who finished the map without the flipping.
Either a reduced multiplier or unranked seems okay.
Either a reduced multiplier or unranked seems okay.
As a "for-fun" mod, I can agree to this, but as a practice tool, I'd be skeptical since you're not actually playing the (original layout) map.thelewa wrote:
this mod would nullify most of my efforts and if I could do it then most probably anyone could do it, this just sounds like a way for lazy people to skip that extra practice
it would not make the game more fair since even right now there is no significant advantage as to what hand you use to aim with or what direction you spin towards
If I'm correct, HR flips the map vertically so it would not bias the opposite handedness but still give challenge to an already familiar map.Heinzen wrote:
I'd add this feature to Hard-Rock instead, where you can choose to invert the map horizontally or vertically. I'm against this if it's a new ranked mod or not HR implementation.
There you go, it's harder from one way to another for some, and easier for others. If you are bad in clockwise flow, practice it, stop being lazy.Soaprman wrote:
What's easier for some will be harder for others.Heinzen wrote:
If you can't do things from one side to the other, flipping a map makes it convenient and easier.
If you just make this 1.00x, most people who are bad at clockwise flow will just use this and get counter-clockwise flow, which is easier for them and requires 0 dedication in order to get good at CW patterns (opposite also applies, obviously). They'd get the same scores as people who needed to and mastered them both.
It's just an excuse to be lazy and put no effort at all into learning something new.
Again, I support this, as long as it's unranked or <1.00x
I mean as in: the same way if you click DT you can choose between DT or NC, you could choose to play HR flipped horizontally or vertically.Sharuru-09 wrote:
If I'm correct, HR flips the map vertically so it would not bias the opposite handedness but still give challenge to an already familiar map.Heinzen wrote:
I'd add this feature to Hard-Rock instead, where you can choose to invert the map horizontally or vertically. I'm against this if it's a new ranked mod or not HR implementation.
otherwise known as "cancer squares"BasedGod wrote:
Can somebody explain to me what a cyclone is?
Hard Rock is vertical, by the way. If the axis is horizontal, the flip is vertical.Raiku wrote:
not the direction of hardrock which is horizontal
As long as this doesn't have 1.00x score multiplier, it will be great.
For the benefit of BasedGod, they're tornado combos.those wrote:
otherwise known as "cancer squares"
They should have been called "cancer squares" from the start though D:D33d wrote:
For the benefit of BasedGod, they're tornado combos.those wrote:
otherwise known as "cancer squares"
As a lefty, I have tried flipped maps and they are easier to some degree. I think having the option to flip the map horizontally would be fun only if it was unranked. I don't mind fighting through whatever trouble I have to for my rank and I would rather there not be a flipped map conspiracy about how I play. I spin CCW and the patterns I have trouble with are speed-gated not aim-gated. The only thing I think flipping would benefit me with is lower left corner notes and patterns would be more consistantly comboable.
Topic Starter
i do respect you brahlolcubes wrote:
^ this.thelewa wrote:
the same goes for losing focus with the more you play a map, you can even get better at that with practice
you can fix everything you pointed out with practice
Also I spin CCW and I have no problems with CW patterns. <_<
Maps are mapped how the mappers want them. This would interfere with their work before it could possibly help someone play the game. I am against this. Respect mappers please.
I really don't like when people ask for dumb-down mods because the game is supposed to be hard. ._.
i do respect you
bro-out (also im not trying to dumb down the game, im trying to give people an oppurtunity to practice both ways if they see a pattern they like in the map. consider that im just thinking about the community, just like you i have absolutely no problem with ccw patterns. furthermore the respect of mappers doesnt at all come into the equation if you give it some thought as its a MODIFIER. just like hardrock. does the implementation of hardrock disrespect mappers?)
This really just sounds like an "easy way out" rather than having to actually practice hard patterns in maps.
"Damn this map is hard with all those bottom right jumps... lets just change how the entire map is supposed to work and flip it so i don't have to practice anything to beat it,"
If this was to be implemented i would want it to not give any score at all because i really only see it as an easy way out.
All of everything this mod can do, can be overcome by actually playing the game
^My opinion, live with it
"Damn this map is hard with all those bottom right jumps... lets just change how the entire map is supposed to work and flip it so i don't have to practice anything to beat it,"
If this was to be implemented i would want it to not give any score at all because i really only see it as an easy way out.
All of everything this mod can do, can be overcome by actually playing the game
^My opinion, live with it
Coffee Hero
So not trueTSC wrote:
Yea just turn on the reflected mod and literally never miss, get all 300's and get #1's on all maps 1st try.
I could see this being added as an unranked mod, like Random in mania. Deciding on a ranked score for it would cause a lot of problems.
I don't play osu! standard much but had no idea that HR literally flipped the map until just checking now -- if HR exists and can be played for rank then there's really no reason that mirror can't be for other modes, considering it wouldn't be the first implementation of something like this. That is just as "offending" to beat-mappers because it is changing patterns outside of how they are intended; you are completely correct with this post.Raiku wrote:
bro-out (also im not trying to dumb down the game, im trying to give people an oppurtunity to practice both ways if they see a pattern they like in the map. consider that im just thinking about the community, just like you i have absolutely no problem with ccw patterns. furthermore the respect of mappers doesnt at all come into the equation if you give it some thought as its a MODIFIER. just like hardrock. does the implementation of hardrock disrespect mappers?)
Topic Starter
i never expected this post to get so much attention, maybe 2 stars or something at most. took me 10 mins and im glad the time i invested has sparked such a wonderful debate, however i would appreciate less comments like 'you are dumbing down the game' and 'respect mappers please' and 'stop gay', because in reality, i came up with this in 10 minutes and didnt give it much thought.
On a side note, i fully FULLY back this as an unranked mod and nothing more, so out of respect for me and my post, end the shitstorm now and consider this my OPINION rather than outright disrespect to mappers, which if you know me as a modder, is completely untrue.
constructive criticism only from now on without being abrasive as a few of you have been, it makes forums a much better place to be.
thanks!
On a side note, i fully FULLY back this as an unranked mod and nothing more, so out of respect for me and my post, end the shitstorm now and consider this my OPINION rather than outright disrespect to mappers, which if you know me as a modder, is completely untrue.
constructive criticism only from now on without being abrasive as a few of you have been, it makes forums a much better place to be.
thanks!
This isn't very hard to achieve through normal means (flip screen & tablet, right). However, it's quite a hassle to actually do it every time you want to flip a beatmap. Could probably be automated with a script or program, though, but I don't think anyone's taken it that far yet?
I'd like to point out Soaprman's argument again, because I fully agree with this. It's an equality vs. equity thing.
Aside from this, I'd like to point out that by many beatmaps being centred around right-hand oriented play, left-handed players have had an advantage all along, right? Now that's food for thought!
I'd like to point out Soaprman's argument again, because I fully agree with this. It's an equality vs. equity thing.
Soaprman wrote:
This isn't a step down in difficulty. It's a step to the side. It is exactly the same map, but flipped. There is no reason this should be anything but x1.0.
I should also note that this is a usability request. It's about comfort. It's akin to a left-handed person asking for some lefty scissors. Though I support it also because it sounds fun.
Aside from this, I'd like to point out that by many beatmaps being centred around right-hand oriented play, left-handed players have had an advantage all along, right? Now that's food for thought!
256_old
I think there should be a compromise considering the points:
1. peppy don't want a practice mode
2. left-handed players are at disadvantage, or at an advantage according to Buxxy
3. right-handed players can benefit by flipping selectively (i.e. "being lazy")
4. the intention of the mapper (mainly movement of hand)
5. left hand is a mirror of right hand over y-axis
The compromise, sounding ridiculous, is to register an account as left-handed and flip ALL maps, but it is too radical and has consequences. But that has nothing to do with the request. The mod is useless, and as stated, you can manually flip it if for practice. If it seems troublesome to you, you can always automate the flipping using some sort of programming wizardry.
1. peppy don't want a practice mode
2. left-handed players are at disadvantage, or at an advantage according to Buxxy
3. right-handed players can benefit by flipping selectively (i.e. "being lazy")
4. the intention of the mapper (mainly movement of hand)
5. left hand is a mirror of right hand over y-axis
The compromise, sounding ridiculous, is to register an account as left-handed and flip ALL maps, but it is too radical and has consequences. But that has nothing to do with the request. The mod is useless, and as stated, you can manually flip it if for practice. If it seems troublesome to you, you can always automate the flipping using some sort of programming wizardry.
This should have a 0.5% modifier or lower if added, I personally think this is a terrible idea for a mod and you should just learn to play parts you can't do.
I can not see this being a ranked mod and I don't think it should be, if you want to flip the map then ctrl+a ctrl+j in the editor and voilà.
I can not see this being a ranked mod and I don't think it should be, if you want to flip the map then ctrl+a ctrl+j in the editor and voilà.
1. Some people who have difficulty with certain patterns use certain sides of their brains to overcome them. This use of each side is apparent in the directions people spin, those who spin right predominantly use their right half to calculate and left use left etc. (Note: this is only my theoretical thinking, not based on solid research conducted by I.)
left is counter clock wise, right is clock wise? i dont... correct me please. this is confusing
as others have said, because this skips the practice of some patterns that people are not comfortable with, its better with a lower score multipler. like 0.9x or something i dont know
0.9x is way too big for a mod like this, people underestimate how much it helps. If you have problems with a pattern that is your fault and your fault only, you shouldn't have your hand held by a mod.sarasseo wrote:
1. Some people who have difficulty with certain patterns use certain sides of their brains to overcome them. This use of each side is apparent in the directions people spin, those who spin right predominantly use their right half to calculate and left use left etc. (Note: this is only my theoretical thinking, not based on solid research conducted by I.)
left is counter clock wise, right is clock wise? i dont... correct me please. this is confusing
as others have said, because this skips the practice of some patterns that people are not comfortable with, its better with a lower score multipler. like 0.9x or something i dont know
I haven't really noticed much difference between a map and an H-flipped version, to be honest. I thought it might help, and a certain map, since I have problems with a certain pattern, however, I obtained exactly the same results. Almost the same accuracy, and same combo.
I've played some maps where the notes circle one way, stop, and then circle the other way. And if you believe in the split brain thing, just switch hands. Mirroring the osu map doesn't magically swap your brain and you're still using the same hands for the same things.
Brain lateralization (aka left-brain vs right-brain) is probably not a factor here, it's seldom actually a factor in anything (regardless of what many people think). If it was, I'd be spinning withershins. There is a preference for direction of rotation and diagonal, but that's just a personal thing with some bias for handedness. But it's not really a good reason for doing this in my opinion, because a good mapper shouldn't be mapping in a way that shows a preference. Ideally, it would be nice if this was checked somewhere in the moderation process, but it isn't really so important. Just know mappers, that there is at least one person that gets a kick out of seeing a map where the approaches to spinners have been made in opposite directions. And given my predilection for that sort of thing, I can't really support mirroring because of it... because it would be pointless in a world where all maps are neutral to the effect.
I'm certainly not buying it on the ideal of "useability". The left handed people I know have long since learned how to use a pair of right handed scissors with their left hand (whereas my cross dominance leads me to try using them left handed and failing because I can only use them mirrored from how I use them in my right). Some have even pointed out their dislike for using left handed ones (or even a mouse on the left side)... they've simply adapted to doing it offhand to the point that they gained cross dominance with the tool. In any case, the factor is too minor here to interfere with usability... it's an easy skill to learn to be effectively neutral (if not totally), unless you're being forced to play offhand (I did this for a while).
I'm certainly not buying it on the ideal of "useability". The left handed people I know have long since learned how to use a pair of right handed scissors with their left hand (whereas my cross dominance leads me to try using them left handed and failing because I can only use them mirrored from how I use them in my right). Some have even pointed out their dislike for using left handed ones (or even a mouse on the left side)... they've simply adapted to doing it offhand to the point that they gained cross dominance with the tool. In any case, the factor is too minor here to interfere with usability... it's an easy skill to learn to be effectively neutral (if not totally), unless you're being forced to play offhand (I did this for a while).
Then you can't do the map at all.Alchemi wrote:
I haven't really noticed much difference between a map and an H-flipped version, to be honest. I thought it might help, and a certain map, since I have problems with a certain pattern, however, I obtained exactly the same results. Almost the same accuracy, and same combo.
I don't think there's a way this mod can be implemented without upsetting people.
I agree with things such as the following:
I support this.
I'm right handed. ^.^
I agree with things such as the following:
At first reading this I thought it would be a great idea to have this as RANKED to help the left handed people have a fair shot at stuff without having to put in the extra effort that isn't needed from a right handed person, but now I realise that it could be taken advantage of by right handed people to get better scores on maps that originally had more difficult patterns. A opposing argument would be that a right handed person would need the Mirror mod to get a score like the left handed person would on this kind of map that is more difficult for right handed people. If this mod were to be added, from what I've gathered most people would like it to be unranked or for it to not exist in the first place, which makes me feel sorry for the lefties - I think that as a community we could make it work, even if it didn't work straight away we'd even it out and make it more of a fair mod over time and maybe even to the point where it's ranked.jesus1412 wrote:
0.9x is way too big for a mod like this, people underestimate how much it helps.
I support this.
I'm right handed. ^.^
Sorry but I totally have 0 believe that some patterns are "easier" depending on which hand you use primarily, if anything it would be based on the direction you intuitively spin which would be in the direction of patterns you would find easier.ChicagoTed7172 wrote:
I don't think there's a way this mod can be implemented without upsetting people.
I agree with things such as the following:At first reading this I thought it would be a great idea to have this as RANKED to help the left handed people have a fair shot at stuff without having to put in the extra effort that isn't needed from a right handed person, but now I realise that it could be taken advantage of by right handed people to get better scores on maps that originally had more difficult patterns. A opposing argument would be that a right handed person would need the Mirror mod to get a score like the left handed person would on this kind of map that is more difficult for right handed people. If this mod were to be added, from what I've gathered most people would like it to be unranked or for it to not exist in the first place, which makes me feel sorry for the lefties - I think that as a community we could make it work, even if it didn't work straight away we'd even it out and make it more of a fair mod over time and maybe even to the point where it's ranked.jesus1412 wrote:
0.9x is way too big for a mod like this, people underestimate how much it helps.
I support this.
I'm right handed. ^.^
I'm loving the conspiracy about maps being centered around right handed play
like any mapper would think about that while making maps
OH HMM NEED TO MAKE A FEW PATTERNS THAT ONLY RIGHT HANDED PEOPLE CAN CLEAR HMMMM oh wait that's impossible
whatever extra difficulty there is in playing certain patterns, it comes from the way you spin.
like any mapper would think about that while making maps
OH HMM NEED TO MAKE A FEW PATTERNS THAT ONLY RIGHT HANDED PEOPLE CAN CLEAR HMMMM oh wait that's impossible
whatever extra difficulty there is in playing certain patterns, it comes from the way you spin.
+1 for unranked for sure.
This is actually very true and once I found out about it changed how I approach spinners.thelewa wrote:
whatever extra difficulty there is in playing certain patterns, it comes from the way you spin.
See, I spin clockwise, which is less common than counterclockwise.
I found that people who played my maps had trouble at my spinners because my patterns would send them in a clockwise motion before they reached a spinner.
Now I make it a point to send the player in a counterclockwise motion before a spinner, even though I personally prefer it as clockwise.
If there was a mirror function I would not have to worry about messing up spinners for clockwise players like myself.
If this was implemented, it would need to have a score reduction in my opinion.
I remember on a map I played before, where there were a couple of jumps in a triangle shape, some of them were clockwise, the others being anti-clockwise and I always at least missed one of the circles in the clockwise pattern but could do the anti-clockwise one almost perfectly nine out of ten times I tried it. I'm sorry I don't remember the map, and I know that a Mirror mod wouldn't exactly help in that case because it was all in the same beatmap, but I assume this kind of thing happened to everyone. After a while I got around this clockwise pattern by practicing it over and over again until I could finally do it well, but still never could do it as well as the way I spin.jesus1412 wrote:
Sorry but I totally have 0 believe that some patterns are "easier" depending on which hand you use primarily, if anything it would be based on the direction you intuitively spin which would be in the direction of patterns you would find easier.
P.S. still nobody came up with an idea for the image for the mirror mod?
ChicagoTed7172 wrote:
P.S. still nobody came up with an idea for the image for the mirror mod?
r8
ChicagoTed7172 wrote:
P.S. still nobody came up with an idea for the image for the mirror mod?
I'm imagining as a nice CTB mod because Hard Rock's flip has no effect unless I failed to notice it.
Unranked? ;~; I'd like it just to play maps mirrored.peppy wrote:
If this was implemented, it would need to have a score reduction in my opinion.