also, please make DT multiplier 1.12
lol the "Just play for fun" is actually a nice reasonIkillforpies wrote:
It would be nice that for those people who doesn't want pp should at least HAVE A FREAKING REASON TOO... And not just the normal JUST PLAY FOR FUN reason!... At least say why you don't want it. Explain yourselves
In that case, isn't it just an issue with ppv1? If you don't want to be rewarded for an easy map, this can be fixed in ppv2 like standard. I personally like the confirmation of a genuinely good rank on a difficult map when I receive pp, but I agree that a less competitive system could allow players to enjoy themselves more and not take ctb so seriously.bomber34 wrote:
lol the "Just play for fun" is actually a nice reasonIkillforpies wrote:
It would be nice that for those people who doesn't want pp should at least HAVE A FREAKING REASON TOO... And not just the normal JUST PLAY FOR FUN reason!... At least say why you don't want it. Explain yourselves
without pp you can concentrate easier on the top50 rankings of your favourite songs and maps only without thinking about the whole ranking, since your fav. song/map might be something way easier than Big Black shitmaps
If there were no pp, you would feel better when you rank high on your fav. maps.
The overall harder maps just decrease the worth you would gave the maps you were enjoying more and where you ranked better, because the hard ones give more pp
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I know there are a lot of contra arguments against that point but that is one reason.
Also that is not my real opinion about pp I just wanted to bring another point of view you asked for
Sabi wrote:
2: CTB ranking should be calucated by combo/overall map progression
3:why are droplets worth 10 points.. lol? we only get these droplets to get that SS Bonus for the PP.. so please fix that <3
4: another thing is spinner maps, in ctb there are pp maps called no spinner maps such as (Maware - Popner's Hard) https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122658 Which gave over 40-50 PP If you SS'd it with HR/HD because you would tie for 3rd/4th place and give alot of pp, but if you even miss 1 droplet you would lose all that pp gain
5: you should weigh HR/FL, also look at HD, there are tons of HD players in CTB
thanks - sabi
EDIT: I am a nomod player, i infact HATE HD, HD for me is just for pp, i love nomod and alot of people do, so try to make it fun for the both sides of the grass HD and Nomod
DeathXHunter wrote:
After all there will be ppv2 hopefully,so the guys who say that the ranking should be removed just play for the fun and let the other guys discuss what should be considered in the upcoming system and not ask for removing it,lol.
A good postbomber34 wrote:
lol the "Just play for fun" is actually a nice reasonIkillforpies wrote:
It would be nice that for those people who doesn't want pp should at least HAVE A FREAKING REASON TOO... And not just the normal JUST PLAY FOR FUN reason!... At least say why you don't want it. Explain yourselves
without pp you can concentrate easier on the top50 rankings of your favourite songs and maps only without thinking about the whole ranking, since your fav. song/map might be something way easier than Big Black shitmaps
If there were no pp, you would feel better when you rank high on your fav. maps.
The overall harder maps just decrease the worth you would gave the maps you were enjoying more and where you ranked better, because the hard ones give more pp
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know there are a lot of contra arguments against that point but that is one reason.
Also that is not my real opinion about pp I just wanted to bring another point of view you asked for
I agree with you.DeathXHunter wrote:
After all there will be ppv2 hopefully,so the guys who say that the ranking should be removed just play for the fun and let the other guys discuss what should be considered in the upcoming system and not ask for removing it,lol.
Please read the first post.Mania Vocaloid wrote:
CTB map + Easy = Best pp(over +100 pp)
Edit : ppv2 isn't based on osu!tp Diffculty.
and other modes(mania,CTB,Taiko) pp grows if i play exclusive maps.
Edit2 : so i don't like ppv2. just get back to ppv1.
Tom94 wrote:
note that currently the Catch the Beat ranking is not functional.
This is the best idea (that will not be considered) that I heard so far.ConanCloud wrote:
(At first, I´m sorry for my bad english)
I think the pp system, should be allowed only for players, they want to play with the system.
A lot of people arent interested in the system and the "no pp player" should be removed from the pp system. Maybe, peppy can script a question on the userpage or here https://osu.ppy.sh/p/pp. You can choose then for yourself, that you play with or not with the system.
After this, the pp ranklist should be more clearer then before.
Sure a lot of good players whould be famer then before, but fun is more important then fame.
If you want to be fame, than play scoccer, draw mangas or do something right in the world, but osu! isnt like this! Is just a game
i Agree with this , also one more thing, a map that has no spins and you have to SS to get the pp is bs in my opinion, in other words SS no spin should not weight as much.TenguKing9 wrote:
I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:
1. As DeathXHunter said before, SS should have less weight in the formula since it's easier to SS in Catch The Beat compared to other modes.
2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
3. DT should have more weight overall since players can DT AR8 maps that are difficult and get little to no reward for it in the previous system. The higher the AR the more weight it should have since it doesn't cap at AR10 like HR does.
4. HD should have more weight on maps that are difficult rather than having it static throughout all maps.
5. AR10 maps should have a lot of weight since not many players in CTB can read AR10 and the maps with it are really difficult.
6. For CTB specifics, Deluge should have most weight with every difficulty level below it having less weight than the one above.
7. HR should have more weight than DT at AR7 and AR8 but should have less at AR9+ since it caps out at AR10.
8. There are maps that are considered easier to do on CTB than on standard example being Freedom Dive that should'nt be weighed as heavily on ctb due to it being mostly streams.
9. There are auto-converts that are harder than some ctb specifics that should weigh more in this case. CTB Specifics shouldn't outweigh every map just because it's a specific.
IMO AR10 with HR is still harder than AR10 with HD. Just because the AR doesn't increase anymore doesn't mean that it doesn't get way harder. (cause like things get further apart and the cs gets smaller)TenguKing9 wrote:
7. HR should have more weight than DT at AR7 and AR8 but should have less at AR9+ since it caps out at AR10.
I disagree but maybe you just misswrote or so ...TenguKing9 wrote:
I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:
2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
Playing AR9 or AR10 with DT is incredibly difficult since it's faster than AR10 at this point. I do agree with you that HR with AR10 is harder than playing it with HD, but the point is that AR9 with DT is much harder than AR9 with HR because it is AR10.3 and you have less time to react.Rorona wrote:
IMO AR10 with HR is still harder than AR10 with HD. Just because the AR doesn't increase anymore doesn't mean that it doesn't get way harder. (cause like things get further apart and the cs gets smaller)TenguKing9 wrote:
7. HR should have more weight than DT at AR7 and AR8 but should have less at AR9+ since it caps out at AR10.
I meant this for low AR plays such as AR6 and below. Anything above AR7 with this mod should have a bonus like you said but not as big as per say DT or HR.bomber34 wrote:
I disagree but maybe you just misswrote or so ...TenguKing9 wrote:
I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:
2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
it should not give to much bonus but it should weight more than no mod, because next to memorization you still need the skill to play the map.
If you suck at a map, memorizing everything won't help you at all anyway when it comes to this mod.
okay, then it is alrightTenguKing9 wrote:
I meant this for low AR plays such as AR6 and below. Anything above AR7 with this mod should have a bonus like you said but not as big as per say DT or HR.
This is what I'm talking about...TenguKing9 wrote:
I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:
1. As DeathXHunter said before, SS should have less weight in the formula since it's easier to SS in Catch The Beat compared to other modes.
2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
3. DT should have more weight overall since players can DT AR8 maps that are difficult and get little to no reward for it in the previous system. The higher the AR the more weight it should have since it doesn't cap at AR10 like HR does.
4. HD should have more weight on maps that are difficult rather than having it static throughout all maps.
5. AR10 maps should have a lot of weight since not many players in CTB can read AR10 and the maps with it are really difficult.
6. For CTB specifics, Deluge should have most weight with every difficulty level below it having less weight than the one above.
7. HR should have more weight than DT at AR7 and AR8 but should have less at AR9+ since it caps out at AR10.
8. There are maps that are considered easier to do on CTB than on standard example being Freedom Dive that should'nt be weighed as heavily on ctb due to it being mostly streams.
9. There are auto-converts that are harder than some ctb specifics that should weigh more in this case. CTB Specifics shouldn't outweigh every map just because it's a specific.
I'll give more suggestions as I think of them.
Completely disagree with this. A map being approved doesn't necessarily mean it's harder than an Insane diff. The way tp works (calculating the difficulty of each map) should be ok.jaibo wrote:
I agree that it should be something like
approved > insane > hard
eldnl wrote:
About mods:
- Playing DT on AR9+ maps. example: https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=66853&m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=48416&m=2
- Playing HR on AR8+ maps. example: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/291996?m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/b/151017?m=2
- Playing HD on AR7- maps (but the map has to be a hard difficulty). https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=51308&m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=101727&m=2
- Playing FL on AR9+ maps. https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=86324&m=2
That's the harder stuff about mods.
About the normal difficulty of a map, you have to consider thexdistance of the notes, including sliders, because theydistance doesn't matter at all.
The note density doesn't matter that much, everything is about the jumps, a fast bpm song without jumps will be easy, a slow bpm song with a lot of jump will be hard.
The stream jumps can be considered has something really hard.
If anyone can add something that would be great.
Er. I read HD, not DT the first time, I swear.TenguKing9 wrote:
Playing AR9 or AR10 with DT is incredibly difficult since it's faster than AR10 at this point. I do agree with you that HR with AR10 is harder than playing it with HD, but the point is that AR9 with DT is much harder than AR9 with HR because it is AR10.3 and you have less time to react.
CtB has always had droplets as being 10 points (at least as long as I've been around) and changing this now would cause problems more than likely.Sabi wrote:
3:why are droplets worth 10 points.. lol? we only get these droplets to get that SS Bonus for the PP.. so please fix that <3
This doesn't really need to be addressed as ppv2 doesn't care about your rank, it cares about your accuracy/mods more, though I do think on maps with spinners it should reward you a bit more for spinning well.Sabi wrote:
4: another thing is spinner maps, in ctb there are pp maps called no spinner maps such as (Maware - Popner's Hard) https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122658 Which gave over 40-50 PP If you SS'd it with HR/HD because you would tie for 3rd/4th place and give alot of pp, but if you even miss 1 droplet you would lose all that pp gain
HD should ALWAYS give more than no mod imo, as no map is ever actually easier, on AR<7 it is hard for most people but those maps shouldn't matter for the most part except for when they have small CS or when adding HR creates a lot of tough jumps that were easy beforehand (example: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/290744&m=2 Not that challenging no mod but when you add HR very few people can FC even though the AR is low). And when it comes to hard maps, the harder end of the AR8 maps become extremely difficult to do with HD (example: http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=240107&m=2 no one has even FC'd with HD yet) and on hard AR9 maps HD always makes them more challenging, hard jumps will always become much harder when using HD, even if the player is better at using HD than no mod, such as myself. The best solution would be to have HD weigh more heavily on maps that are especially hard with HD when compared to no mod, and weigh less (but still slightly more than no mod) on easier maps.bomber34 wrote:
HD should not be weighted that much ... or more or less like
- the lower the AR the more HD weights
on high AR you can ignore HD really
Most of what you said was pretty good, though note density can matter with jumps, especially on a map like https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=129285&m=2 , the notes are so close together that they become very hard to hit on ctb even with no mod, so when calculating difficulty, maybe consider not just how close jumps are horizontally, but maybe how close they are on the timeline as well as how often the jumps are close enough to be hard to hit.eldnl wrote:
The note density doesn't matter that much, everything is about the jumps, a fast bpm song without jumps will be easy, a slow bpm song with a lot of jump will be hard.
This is somewhat good, but we have to make sure that an SS isn't given too little weight, as sometimes hitting those droplets can take a lot of work and deserve a reward, and maybe we should base the pp bonus an SS will give based on how hard it is to SS compared to getting an FC (maybe by the % of FC's that are also an SS?) Basically an SS should still always give more, but just not to the ridiculous extent as it does currently.TenguKing9 wrote:
1. As DeathXHunter said before, SS should have less weight in the formula since it's easier to SS in Catch The Beat compared to other modes.
FL should always be weighted heavier than no mod, but it should be weighted accordingly to how difficult the jumps are in a map, as slow maps with very few jumps are pretty easy to do with FL, while taking the time to FC something somewhat hard should give you a reward (hopefully not to a huge extent though)TenguKing9 wrote:
2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
Again this needs to be based on how hard the map will be with those mods, as on most maps, DT is still easier, while on AR8+ some maps become hard to simply pass with DT, so the weighting should be on a per map basis as explained for Hd and FLTenguKing9 wrote:
3. DT should have more weight overall since players can DT AR8 maps that are difficult and get little to no reward for it in the previous system. The higher the AR the more weight it should have since it doesn't cap at AR10 like HR does.
I do believe AR10 should have more weight than currently probably but we should avoid making it too big as some players (such as myself) just simply don't have the ability to do AR10 without memorizing the entire map, I kinda wish AR10 was made somewhat slower for ctb and other AR's were adjusted accordingly to be more fair as you're limited by the catcher speed as WELL as reaction time, while every other mode relies purely on your reaction time, but this isn't the place for a discussion on that.TenguKing9 wrote:
5. AR10 maps should have a lot of weight since not many players in CTB can read AR10 and the maps with it are really difficult.
I agree with this but Freedom Dive is a horrible example since it's still very hard for people to FC even with being much easier than on standard. a map like MENDES (https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=75831&m=2) would probably do much better as an example as it's hard for the average standard player to combo yet on ctb you need HD+DT just to get top 50, which is very uncommon for any AR8 map on ctb.TenguKing9 wrote:
8. There are maps that are considered easier to do on CTB than on standard example being Freedom Dive that shouldn't be weighed as heavily on ctb due to it being mostly streams.
This very true, there are several maps that are harder than most specifics, I don't need to list examples as any ctb player knows this. Though if a converted map's difficulty is calculated to around the same as a specific, I believe the specific should give a little more as it was made for ctb specifically.TenguKing9 wrote:
9. There are auto-converts that are harder than some ctb specifics that should weigh more in this case. CTB Specifics shouldn't outweigh every map just because it's a specific.
I don't like the idea of HD+FL giving a large bonus on ctb as most maps that have more than 300-400 combo are impossible to do without total memorization, and while memorization is considered a skill something like HD+FL shouldn't be able to end up giving people a large amount of pp that they don't deserve. A bonus is fine, but please nothing too large.Rorona wrote:
OT: FLHD should be worth more. (does anyone even play that?)