hmm Japanese seems to katakana = English , Chinese = Pronunciation language. I like this rule \:D/
Korean example like this? 싸이 - 젠틀맨 = PSY - Gentleman. lol
Korean example like this? 싸이 - 젠틀맨 = PSY - Gentleman. lol
Thank you. There wasn't a good example I could find already on the site.scanter wrote:
hmm Japanese seems to katakana = English , Chinese = Pronunciation language. I like this rule \:D/
Korean example like this? 싸이 - 젠틀맨 = PSY - Gentleman. lol
The case of wi [ゐ/ヰ] we [ゑ/ヱ] and wo [ヲ] is a difficult one, as they are no longer 'proper usage' in japanese. They were fazed out because they no longer served a distinct difference to other kana. ゐ/ヰ slowly started being just pronounced い [i] and served no spoken difference, same goes for the others. へ [he] and を [wo] being pronounced as え [e] and お [o] when used in particle form is a modern day hold over from the same sort of thing. Which is what makes the romanization case not entirely cut and dry.Luna wrote:
Things that would need clarification imo (regarding Japanese):
Particles - は, へ and を
は (ha), when used as a particle is pronounced wa. I've seen both romanizations in osu! map names.
へ (he), same thing. Pronounced e as a particle.
を (wo) becomes o.
This may sound inconsistent, but I believe wa, he and wo should always be used.
Then there are two more issues that I'd like to give an example for.
妖精帝國 - 空想メソロギヰ
In the ranked maps, this has been romanized as "Yousei Teikoku - Kuusou Mesorogiwi"
Issue #1: The romanization of メソロギヰ
This is a stylized spelling of ミソロジー / misorojii / Mythology; the outdated character ヰ (wi) is basically pronounced as i. Do you go for the literal romanization Mesorogiwi or the English equivalent Mythology?
Issue #2: Official vs literal romanization of artist names like 妖精帝國
Here, an official translated version of the name actually exists: Das Feenreich.
However, all of osu! is completely used to the literal romanization of Yousei Teikoku. Forcing the "official" name would only add to the confusion in cases like this.
It does. Although don't use modified Hepburn. I don't think we want to start having to write things like よう as yô or yō.Ephemeral wrote:
does using the Hepburn standard of romanisation address the issues mentioned here or not?
Have you ever heard ヲタ read aloud? I haven't, but I also have never seen or heard a native Japanese speaker read ヲ or ゐ in their classical sense (hence why they are obsolete). Even when people like to use them in names of characters/works to make it seem fancy. Quick example would be Sora no [W]oto [ソ・ラ・ノ・ヲ・ト] (lit; sound of the sky) where in classical Japanese oto would have been spoken and written as woto (as with MANY words that use お). Usage of ヲ here is to make it seem old and interesting. It's also basically never romanized to Woto, since it's not read that way by modern standards.Luna wrote:
while not completely relevant to this discussion, there are actually modern words that use ヲ in stylized spellings - ヲタ (wota, short form of otaku) comes to mind.
Have you ever heard ヲタ read aloud?I actually have, as you might guess it's pronounced mostly like ota
I think in the case of stylized foreign word spelling, using the aforementioned [メソロギヰ] as an example, we should just use the word that is actually being used, in this case 'Mythology' any other way just makes it silly.Luna wrote:
The rule obviously does not adress my question concerning the handling of stylized katakana spellings and official translations of artist names, so that's another problem still.
Using ō causes all kinds of problems, like confusing oo and ou, nevermind the fact that osu's systems don't like it. Long and extended vowels should always be written out.SapphireGhost wrote:
The problem I see with Hepburn romanisation would be having to use "ō" in the non-unicode field. tangorin's style of romanisation avoids this and I believe it is actually closer to osu!'s style of romanisation than Hepburn, but I don't know what it's called.
In a more specific example of HujuniseikouyuuP, I believe there is reason to start romanising it as FujuniseikouyuuP instead. However, this would imply ふじゅに (fujuni) as opposed to ふじゅんい (fujun'i), so there is still the question of we should use apostrophes in these situations, like with ren'ai. Then there's capitalisation. Is it wrong to use FujunIseiKouyuuP to denote the separate parts of the name? And capitalization issues carry over to many other cases.
Chinese, Japanese and Korean titles must be romanised and not translated unless a translated title is officially provided. Foreign words in titles should be romanised to the original language instead.changed to:
Metadata originally from a non-Latin alphabet language must be romanized using an accepted system deemed as standard for that language (such as Hepburn for Japanese). In cases where the exact system to use for romanization is uncertain, existing ranked maps with similar metadata in the same language may be used as an example.Thoughts?
Metadata originally from a non-Latin alphabet language must be romanized using an accepted system deemed as standard for that language (such as Hepburn for Japanese). In cases where the exact system to use for romanization is uncertain, existing ranked maps with similar metadata in the same language may be used as an example.This also leaves out the "not translated unless a translated title is officially provided". And again, I would prefer not to use Hepburn is because it would require the use of "ō".
Latter one is more common and way more practicable. The aposrophes only indicate the right spelling, not "really" the right proounciation. The difference is minor (if even existing). And since romaji shall help to make stuff "read- and pronounceable" instead of "catching the entire right spelling", I would not use any apostrophes.SapphireGhost wrote:
I would rather see this as kin'youbi or kinyoubi.
the latter example (kinyoubi) is how we've always done it and is expressed in previous ranked maps with similar metadata, so it is encompassed by the rule.SapphireGhost wrote:
Metadata originally from a non-Latin alphabet language must be romanized using an accepted system deemed as standard for that language (such as Hepburn for Japanese). In cases where the exact system to use for romanization is uncertain, existing ranked maps with similar metadata in the same language may be used as an example.This also leaves out the "not translated unless a translated title is officially provided". And again, I would prefer not to use Hepburn is because it would require the use of "ō".
In Hepburn: 金曜日(きんようび): ki + n + yo + u + bi = kinyōbi or kin'yōbi – Friday
I would rather see this as kin'youbi or kinyoubi.
Metadata originally from a non-Latin alphabet language must be romanized using an accepted system deemed as standard for that language (such as Hepburn Traditional for Japanese), unless an official translated title is provided by the artist. In cases where the exact system to use for romanization is uncertain, existing ranked maps with similar metadata in the same language may be used as an example.
It still doesn't tell that katakana-transcribed words that only replace an english (or other language's) word, should be written in its original language (so not writing the hepburn/whatever way to transcribe the katakana, but writing the English word with right spelling)Loctav wrote:
Also it doesnt include the katakana -> non-japanese cases like "Higurashi Moratorium".
It would be better for the rule to exist without having to rely on previous ranked maps, because not all previously ranked maps have correct metadata, so "how we've always done it" isn't always good reasoning.Ephemeral wrote:
the latter example (kinyoubi) is how we've always done it and is expressed in previous ranked maps with similar metadata, so it is encompassed by the rule.
"lü se" <- it is OK to typexxbidiao wrote:
Hey I found no one talking about Chinese issue.
In Chinese we have a special pinyin letter that is like (yu)
Taking a Chinese word as example, 绿色 (l se)
Actually in our IME we have such letter as V, so this should be OK:
lv se
But V is never used in real pinyin, would that be suitable that we use V in the Chinese "romanized" name?
OniJAM wrote:
"lü se" <- it is OK to typexxbidiao wrote:
Hey I found no one talking about Chinese issue.
In Chinese we have a special pinyin letter that is like (yu)
Taking a Chinese word as example, 绿色 (l se)
Actually in our IME we have such letter as V, so this should be OK:
lv se
But V is never used in real pinyin, would that be suitable that we use V in the Chinese "romanized" name?
"lǜ sè" <- 233
Meh. I think lv and lü are both fine. I think of them interchangably. XDmintong89 wrote:
ü isn't a romanisation word.
i think " lv se " is the most fit at this problem. if you use " lu se " may be confused between u and ü
nono, Hanyu Pinyin is the most fit at here, because not all people can be able to understand Gwoyeu Romatzyh.Ephemeral wrote:
Gwoyeu Romatzyh looks preferable for Chinese romanisation from what I've read of it
--Just confirming this, that Pinyin is the most widely used Romanisation system. Wade-Giles is a bit less popular, however hardly anyone uses Gwoyeu Romatzyh among the mainstream.Megurine Luka wrote:
No please ;w; I can't read Gwoyeu Romatzyh
And I'm sure most Chinese don't use them and more than half of Chinese people don't know this stuff ;w;
Flower wrote:
--Just confirming this, that Pinyin is the most widely used Romanisation system. Wade-Giles is a bit less popular, however hardly anyone uses Gwoyeu Romatzyh among the mainstream.Megurine Luka wrote:
No please ;w; I can't read Gwoyeu Romatzyh
And I'm sure most Chinese don't use them and more than half of Chinese people don't know this stuff ;w;
Fact: it's also used by teachers who teach Chinese, so...
--Another question is: What if there is transliterated words in the Chinese song name? For example:
有钱的狗 - 沙发
Is it "You Qian De Gou - Sha Fa", or "You Qian De Gou - Sofa"?
In that case, if the person who maps the song knows that it's a transliterated word, it should be the original word. In that case, sofa.
--Also. If there is expletive, should it be in lower case? Example:
郭采洁 - 我的未来式
Should it be "Guo Caijie - Wo De Wei Lai Shi" or "Guo Cai Jie - Wo de Wei Lai Shi"?
I don't get it in its fullest so I will skip that one for now
--Last question. When several characters form a word, should them be written together? Example:
林依晨 - 孤单北半球
Should it be "Lin Yichen - Gu Dan Bei Ban Qiu" or "Lin Yichen - Gudan Beibanqiu"? Or maybe "Lin Yichen - GuDan BeiBanQiu"?
If they form a word, the best way would be to make a differentiation. I had no trouble at all attributing a syllable to a character. The third option looks weird honestly (although used in some places - I think Chinese cubing manufactures use that for their cube names)
Details see https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/145553
errrr... Not everybody knows how to Chinese, lol.
If there is more than 5 characters, then use word-based conversion, else use character-based conversion.Example:
Well I don't think this is thr right spelling.SapphireGhost wrote:
Chinese, Japanese and Korean titles must be romanised and not translated unless a translated title is officially provided. Foreign words in titles should be romanised to the original language instead.Chinese Example: GhostFinal - 感谢
O Gan Xie