Agka wrote:

JeMhUnTeR wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/102173 ?

we have pretty different reasons and ideas

this is for enhancing creativity and making it at times, harder, using variations of the slider velocity

while that seems to just want to make it easier by using the base slider speed.

oh.

mm201 wrote:

It should be handled the same way as taiko, imo.

this.

mm201 wrote:

It should be handled the same way as taiko, imo.

in that case the SV is the important key here. as well to prevent initial SV changes abuse (such as 0.4, 3.6, etc.) so the initial SV is nullified and only checks the green timing~ (so high initial SV and low initial SV is treated as same),

Following SV makes sense to me since it allows the mapper to control the scroll speed more precisely. (If we don't give mappers control of this, you can bet they'll hack their way around, hurting mapping.) Player custom approach speed can be combined on top of it.

if the scrolling is like in taiko you can not make alot of bpm effects(tricks like in festival of ghost 2 like in the video are not possible then anymore). also it would be very weird on SV changes because the notes that are changed will come faster than the notes before it so notes are falling each in different speed.

the way it is now is better i think because it feels like the notes are lying on the field and the field is moving towards you with all notes at the right place. If you change that to taiko like scrolling it is like the field stops and SV controlls the note speed. It is very inaccurate and looks bugged on speed changes.

Also if you let the mapper chose the scrolling speed is just stupid again. Everyone should set it before playing to their speed they can read and are comfortable to play. also this will probably lead to abuse by the mapper and dont say now somethink like "mods can take care of that" because it is not going to happen because everyone got their own way of playing and what works for one will not work for the others most of the time. also it is inconsistent because you will end with different speeds for songs with same or close BPM which is stupid again because you have to remember what speed to set for each song seperately.

I have played a different fan game like osu mania before and it used just that taiko like scrolling that you want and it was really bad. It was just annoying to play the inconsistency in speed modifiers and you could do none of the BPM tricks you can do now. I dont know know what tricks or creative stuff if you have in mind but just try in osu editor doing some of that in taiko mode and see if that works for you. Or if you want i can link you the other game (it has an editor aswell and basicly is what you want) and try there first and see if your going to be happy how it is. For me the way it is now it is like the original and its the best, and i hope those SV changes never get implemented.

Hanyuu wrote:

if the scrolling is like in taiko you can not make alot of bpm effects(tricks like in festival of ghost 2 like in the video are not possible then anymore). also it would be very weird on SV changes because the notes that are changed will come faster than the notes before it so notes are falling each in different speed.

You can't even make bpm effects in most songs unless you double or half the bpm.
No. There will not be a time when 2 notes will fall at a different speed.

Hanyuu wrote:

the way it is now is better i think because it feels like the notes are lying on the field and the field is moving towards you with all notes at the right place. If you change that to taiko like scrolling it is like the field stops and SV controlls the note speed. It is very inaccurate and looks bugged on speed changes.

???

Hanyuu wrote:

Also if you let the mapper chose the scrolling speed is just stupid again. Everyone should set it before playing to their speed they can read and are comfortable to play. also this will probably lead to abuse by the mapper and dont say now somethink like "mods can take care of that" because it is not going to happen because everyone got their own way of playing and what works for one will not work for the others most of the time. also it is inconsistent because you will end with different speeds for songs with same or close BPM which is stupid again because you have to remember what speed to set for each song seperately.

Changing scrolling speed within a map emphasizes some parts of the song. And I don't think abused maps would be ranked anyways, unless the diff is uber insane.
??? This will be a multiplier, and it will not change your map speed preference.

Hanyuu wrote:

I have played a different fan game like osu mania before and it used just that taiko like scrolling that you want and it was really bad. It was just annoying to play the inconsistency in speed modifiers and you could do none of the BPM tricks you can do now. I dont know know what tricks or creative stuff if you have in mind but just try in osu editor doing some of that in taiko mode and see if that works for you. Or if you want i can link you the other game (it has an editor aswell and basicly is what you want) and try there first and see if your going to be happy how it is. For me the way it is now it is like the original and its the best, and i hope those SV changes never get implemented.

I don't really know of any bpm effects you could add in a song with a constant bpm. And if you think that notes would fall at different speeds at the same time, you're wrong.
Sorry if I'm not getting your point that much.

JeMhUnTeR wrote:

Hanyuu wrote:

if the scrolling is like in taiko you can not make alot of bpm effects(tricks like in festival of ghost 2 like in the video are not possible then anymore). also it would be very weird on SV changes because the notes that are changed will come faster than the notes before it so notes are falling each in different speed.

You can't even make bpm effects in most songs unless you double or half the bpm.
No. There will not be a time when 2 notes will fall at a different speed.

Hanyuu wrote:

the way it is now is better i think because it feels like the notes are lying on the field and the field is moving towards you with all notes at the right place. If you change that to taiko like scrolling it is like the field stops and SV controlls the note speed. It is very inaccurate and looks bugged on speed changes.

???

Hanyuu wrote:

Also if you let the mapper chose the scrolling speed is just stupid again. Everyone should set it before playing to their speed they can read and are comfortable to play. also this will probably lead to abuse by the mapper and dont say now somethink like "mods can take care of that" because it is not going to happen because everyone got their own way of playing and what works for one will not work for the others most of the time. also it is inconsistent because you will end with different speeds for songs with same or close BPM which is stupid again because you have to remember what speed to set for each song seperately.

Changing scrolling speed within a map emphasizes some parts of the song. And I don't think abused maps would be ranked anyways, unless the diff is uber insane.
??? This will be a multiplier, and it will not change your map speed preference.

Hanyuu wrote:

I have played a different fan game like osu mania before and it used just that taiko like scrolling that you want and it was really bad. It was just annoying to play the inconsistency in speed modifiers and you could do none of the BPM tricks you can do now. I dont know know what tricks or creative stuff if you have in mind but just try in osu editor doing some of that in taiko mode and see if that works for you. Or if you want i can link you the other game (it has an editor aswell and basicly is what you want) and try there first and see if your going to be happy how it is. For me the way it is now it is like the original and its the best, and i hope those SV changes never get implemented.

I don't really know of any bpm effects you could add in a song with a constant bpm. And if you think that notes would fall at different speeds at the same time, you're wrong.
Sorry if I'm not getting your point that much.

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/5069
watch this song on hard mode taiko autoplay you will see what i mean. This is what will happen if you let timing sections regulate the speed with slider velocity.

Hanyuu wrote:

the way it is now is better i think because it feels like the notes are lying on the field and the field is moving towards you with all notes at the right place. If you change that to taiko like scrolling it is like the field stops and SV controlls the note speed. It is very inaccurate and looks bugged on speed changes.

???

The way it is set for this game type is like. if you imagine a conveyor belt and the notes are lying on it. The BPM directs how fast the belt goes. If you put in timing sections with different slider velocity it will apply a different speed for this section with a different SV and it will end that the notes in there are falling faster or slower than the rest of the song. it will end like the scrolling in taiko where notes are falling in regular speed and while that some other notes with different slider velocity blend in. its like a chaos mode and looks really wrong.

nah you still don't get how this would work. Bpm will change the speed of the notes. And at the same time, slider velocity also changes the speed of the notes in the same way. In your example, bpm will tell the initial speed of the conveyor belt. SV will tell when and how much the conveyor belt speeds up or slows down.

I think there's a disconnect here. If things are done "like Taiko", then Hanyuu is correct... multiple layers of objects moving at different speeds over top of one another is not an uncommon sight when playing a converted map in Taiko. JeMhUnTeR probably didn't understand that agreeing with doing things the Taiko way wasn't what he actually wanted or was really thinking.

oh. but we're talking about SV being able to affect the fall speed, right? and not about the transition between speeds.

I too only meant the conversion of BPM/SV/SVM into fall speed when I mentioned taiko.

Ok i really dont understand anything at all then anymore i think ... lol. But isnt it then the same thing you are allready able to do with BPM changes now?

Hanyuu wrote:

Ok i really dont understand anything at all then anymore i think ... lol. But isnt it then the same thing you are allready able to do with BPM changes now?

Yes, except according to the ranking criteria that's not allowed.

And the bpm actually doesn't change. The Bpm changes were just used as gimmick.
You can do the same stuff in tfog2 with SV changes than with BPM changes.
Just apply the SV change to the whole scrolling speed and not to the notes (so the whole playing field accelerates or gets slower, not like in taiko, where only the notes are accelerating - but I think this is done because in original TnT it's done the same way)
But even for overtaking notes (which are unrankable in taiko), there are many workarounds, which would work on mania, too (multiple green lines)

I think this feature is essential for mapping usual mania stuff (I can't remember one o2 high tier map which didn't use this).
Maybe someone should poke woc to add it.

tis up to you loctav

Yeah, Taiko does it the TnT way, which is to have the velocity of the notes constant. Different notes can have different speeds, but each note will keep the speed it starts with for the duration of the time its on the track, meaning that the space between two notes moving at the same speed that appears to be 1/2 beat will still be 1/2 beat when it gets to the drum. But this means that notes moving at different speed have the distance between them variable, which results in the appearance of different "conveyor belts", where a third note can suddenly race in and get in between those two 1/2 beat apart notes.

The proposed way for mania flips things around (switching the time domain for space). The thing that's constant is the relative distance between notes... so that there can only appear to be one conveyor belt because everything is firmly set in place. However, the speed of the belt can change and so the notes now have variable speed and a distance that appears to be, say, 1/2 beat, might not be 1/2 beat when it gets to the bar because all the notes change to the same speed when the speed changes.

The reason for including SV even though BPM could do the job should be obvious. BPM shouldn't represent anything different than the actual BPM of the music, otherwise there will be problems with all the different modes that might be trying to read the map. SV is the appropriate value to use for signaling a non-BPM speed change.

Well this sounds very reasonable then. im just afraid those changes would mess up the game aswell as those other things like having the creator dictate the scroll tempo unindependend of BPM. I would star this but this sounds more like a bug fix so im not going to. On a different thought since BPM changes during sliders are not working are they ever going to work with SV?

This won't mess up anything, since it would only apply for specific made naps, not for transferred (I hope)

Why would you like to slow down WITHIN a hold? That makes no sense.
SV changes are time-specific not object-specific. You can't slow down objects, ou the overall speed. And I see no point in slowing down a hold note WHILE you play it.

Loctav wrote:

Why would you like to slow down WITHIN a hold? That makes no sense.
SV changes are time-specific not object-specific. You can't slow down objects, ou the overall speed. And I see no point in slowing down a hold note WHILE you play it.

I agree. It makes no sense. ALTHOUGH I actually enjoy playing maps with changing speeds in between a hold xD

I agree only used in specific maps

woc2006 wrote:

I agree only used in specific maps

So then, will you add it now or not?

I totally support this, it will definitely allow more room for creativity, as well as provide an additional way to make osu!mania maps more challenging and/or interesting. It makes the map more dynamic and, if used properly, makes it go with the music better. Of course, I cannot deny that some people will not use it properly, causing more confusing than fun, but then again those maps can just stay unranked

Also, for some who may worry that this 'scroll speed' might be abused by mappers to force a certain speed, well, the manual one (CTRL－+/-) should still be sufficient to adjust to a comfortable speed for the player. Speed 1 is reaaaally slow.

Anyway, I really hope to see this implemented soon =D

it.will.not. Oh, by the way, this is [added] <3 (check the changelog, too lazy to puush an image)

EDIT: I tried it. It's not. :< (or maybe in the test build?)

JeMhUnTeR wrote:

I tried it. It's not. :<

Added.

really?