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Allow people to star a map only once.

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29
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +0
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: #3
4,845 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
KRZY
Didn't know where to put this, so here it is:

The idea came to me as I was looking a map that, in my opinion, was clearly ranked without getting enough mods.

As we currently need eight stars to get a bubble on a mapset, limiting the number of stars a person can give to a mapset to only one will ensure that at least seven (excluding the mapper) people will take a look at the map before the map is ready for a bubble.

Of course, there are no guarantees that a star always comes with a mod, but I feel it will significantly increase the ratio of mods/stars on a map, which is what we originally aimed for when we required kudosu to star a map.

Thoughts in all directions are much appreciated.
SapphireGhost
osu! Alumni
2,618 posts
Joined June 2010
SapphireGhost
"there are no guarantees that a star always comes with a mod"
This is a good suggestion, but this part worries me. Another possible suggestion (with the same concept) would be "Require eight mod posts instead of eight star priority." You could also possibly add a rule about being in Pending for at least a week or something in order to reduce speedrank drama and more importantly, give good modders time to get to the map before it's ranked.

These are all just suggestions, of course.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: #3
4,845 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
KRZY

SapphireGhost wrote:

"Require eight mod posts instead of eight star priority."
This sounds like a pretty good idea.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
This would effectively eliminate "kudosu stockpiling" and "kudosu dumping" as well.


Support, mostly. I think the limit should be 2 rather than 1, and the mapper themselves cannot put their own kd into their own maps? or limit that as well.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar
Supporting basically what others have said here

- A map should be in pending for certain amount of time (yeah I know you could just get mods before submitting but people will still complain in the thread).
- A map should at have at least a certain amount of quality mods as well as stars.
- You can only star your own map twice, and staring others' maps should also have a limit.

Yeah I know it's kinda off topic but I guess it kinda helps with the point of the thread.
Raging Bull
2,785 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Yay support. Gives other people a chance at getting theirs ranked and more mods. Of course the usual thing is about new mappers ._. They might have a hard time getting stars if they can't star their own map.
Azure_Kite
osu! Alumni
3,217 posts
Joined February 2009
Azure_Kite

KRZY wrote:

SapphireGhost wrote:

"Require eight mod posts instead of eight star priority."
This sounds like a pretty good idea.

It's only what I've been asking for a while.

Proposing a lovely little check box to mark whether a post is considered by the author to be, well, a mod. posts not marked as being a mod can still be kudosu'd, but a mapper would require at least 8 posts in their thread (by different modders, of course) marked as being a mod, in order to bring it up higher into the priority queue. Yes, this could be abused, but if it is, let there be repercussions like the inability to mark abusers posts as a mod, or the inability to post in the beatmap subforums for a while.

SPOILER
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn

Azure_Kyte wrote:

SPOILER
this makes me wet

EDIT: also 1111th post
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose

SapphireGhost wrote:

"Require eight mod posts instead of eight star priority."
and what if a map is already good and doesn't require any mod posts?
Azure_Kite
osu! Alumni
3,217 posts
Joined February 2009
Azure_Kite
How many times do you actually see that. Really?
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Lybydose wrote:

SapphireGhost wrote:

"Require eight mod posts instead of eight star priority."
and what if a map is already good and doesn't require any mod posts?
no map is perfect. A failed mod post is still a mod post.

Anyway, I don't support this. It's common sense that we learn from after a big hubbub. Live and learn and then get luvs. See also whymeman's signature.
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose

Azure_Kyte wrote:

How many times do you actually see that. Really?
Go here: http://osu.ppy.sh/p/chart

These are supposedly the best maps from last month. Count how many of these maps did NOT have 10 (or even 8) actual mod posts when ranked. Hint: it's about half of them. It might even be more if you ignore mods with like 2 lines or mods that are nothing but pointless new combo spam that could be summed up with "put a new combo on each downbeat".

The problem is that if a map is "really good" and "doesn't really need mods" it will never get ranked under a system that requires X mods. You'll have people wasting time trying to mod it and failing (when they could be using that time on a map that actually needs modding).

Then you'll have a few people that post random changes that could actually be worse, and they are only posting them because the map "needs a mod post" to get ranked.

In most cases the "really good" map could be improved slightly with 3-4 posts, but generally after that you have to stretch it just to find something.

Also, if the mapper is also a really good modder (use Krisom as an example I suppose), chances are he's already modded his own map to death before submitting it, so it's unlikely that anyone else would find much of anything, given that the person is such a good self-modder.
Zelos
1,111 posts
Joined May 2010
Zelos

Lybydose wrote:

Azure_Kyte wrote:

How many times do you actually see that. Really?
Go here: http://osu.ppy.sh/p/chart

These are supposedly the best maps from last month. Count how many of these maps did NOT have 10 (or even 8) actual mod posts when ranked. Hint: it's about half of them. It might even be more if you ignore mods with like 2 lines or mods that are nothing but pointless new combo spam that could be summed up with "put a new combo on each downbeat".

The problem is that if a map is "really good" and "doesn't really need mods" it will never get ranked under a system that requires X mods. You'll have people wasting time trying to mod it and failing (when they could be using that time on a map that actually needs modding).

Then you'll have a few people that post random changes that could actually be worse, and they are only posting them because the map "needs a mod post" to get ranked.

In most cases the "really good" map could be improved slightly with 3-4 posts, but generally after that you have to stretch it just to find something.

Also, if the mapper is also a really good modder (use Krisom as an example I suppose), chances are he's already modded his own map to death before submitting it, so it's unlikely that anyone else would find much of anything, given that the person is such a good self-modder.
I agree with Lybydose.
Last edited by Zelos , edited 1 time in total.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn

Lybydose wrote:

Also, if the mapper is also a really good modder (use Krisom as an example I suppose), chances are he's already modded his own map to death before submitting it, so it's unlikely that anyone else would find much of anything, given that the person is such a good self-modder.
While I severely agree with this final part (I myself mod my shit to death and back but lack the experience to do so perfectly), i agree with the thought that people can "star" the map without actually having modded it (having failed to do so) by using one of their kudosu from another map, or so.
James2250
osu! Alumni
4,059 posts
Joined July 2008
James2250
"A map being in pending for a certain amount of time" wont solve much. As much as people don't believe it there are actually some maps that are well enough done when first created that they don't need pages of mod posts to be approved, and will just be wasted time for them. The same thing applies for "having a set limit of mod posts on a map" and I agree with everything Lybydose mentioned there.

If there are bad quality maps being approved quickly then it needs to be discussed with the MAT/BATs in charge of it, not change the entire system around it and hurt professionally done maps in the process.

As for the original request, I suppose it wouldn't hurt too much. But I wouldn't limit it to only 1...plus the whole thing is regulated by the kudosu system anyway. If a modder "really" thinks a map is worth it then they should be allowed to put several stars on the map if they want to. It just means they will have to mod more maps to get the kudosu for that.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

Lybydose wrote:

The problem is that if a map is "really good" and "doesn't really need mods" it will never get ranked under a system that requires X mods.
How so?

Remember that a mod post where the modder found absolutely nothing is still a mod post - they aren't kudosu-worthy, but they do count as mod posts (just very useless ones). As long as those mod posts counted under such a system, there wouldn't be any trouble, since the mappers in question can get 8 mod posts in less than a week. :P
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn

Ekaru wrote:

since the mappers in question can get 8 mod posts in less than a week. day. :P
fix'd and truths
Gomo Psivarh
584 posts
Joined December 2009
Gomo Psivarh
Apparently old mappers are way easier to get stars from others, it's a trememdous disadvantage for new mappers as they cannot star their own maps multiple times.
rust45
1,088 posts
Joined May 2009
rust45

Ekaru wrote:

Lybydose wrote:

The problem is that if a map is "really good" and "doesn't really need mods" it will never get ranked under a system that requires X mods.
How so?

Remember that a mod post where the modder found absolutely nothing is still a mod post - they aren't kudosu-worthy, but they do count as mod posts (just very useless ones). As long as those mod posts counted under such a system, there wouldn't be any trouble, since the mappers in question can get 8 mod posts in less than a week. :P
I'm trying to wonder how people could actually prove that they went through the whole map.
Azure_Kite
osu! Alumni
3,217 posts
Joined February 2009
Azure_Kite
They can't prove it, but if there's no mod content/no suggestions, and the next modder that ACTUALLY MODS talkes a look and finds a bunch of unrankable errors, well....
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

rust45 wrote:

I'm trying to wonder how people could actually prove that they went through the whole map.
Why would they need to prove it?

If the MAT that looks at it finds a bunch of unrankable stuff, then the modder will generally have to go get some more mods anyways before asking for a recheck, so it wouldn't matter.

Also, the mappers who are capable of making maps that are rankable after only 8 mods and want to get those 8 mods ASAP will generally go to their connections, most of which know how to mod pretty damn well.

Finally, it's not like osu! has a massive lying problem with mappers and modders. "Found nothing" posts typically come about because the person who modded is a newer modder who genuinely didn't find anything. You can always see how much kudosu the person has, anyways; if it's at least 10, then congratulations! Chances are, they actually looked at the mapset.

It seriously wouldn't be much of an issue.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

Azure_Kyte wrote:

How many times do you actually see that. Really?
I keep playing pending/graveyarded maps and ffs there are TONS of maps that have no mod (or just really a few) and never got ranked because they got ignored or not modded because THEY DON'T NEED ANY MOD. Plus many maps get really minimum modding like "this pattern looks ugly, you may want to change it for this", or "this jumps are too hard to hit, make them easier?" and that kind of stuff. Experienced mappers don't really need 8 guys modding their maps, I don't really think anyone can go telling ztrot or AHO that something in their map is wrong and it MUST be changed for example.

And I want to add something else. Many maps were great the way they were before getting modded and then ranked/approved, a recent and famous example would be ztrot/BD's Airman map, which was better before it got modded and approved than what it is now in my opinion. And even when now I can't really recall any example, it has happened to me tons of times that I get some not-yet-ranked map, play it like it etc, then it gets ranked after a long time, play it again and to my surprise it's the damn same thing but maybe some circles were moved 1mm to a side or a 6 combo now is made out of 2 3 combos. Good mappers don't really need many mods, if not at all.
Sure
4,219 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure
I really want this.
Since normal star had been rejected, some people save their kudos for staring to their own map.
I believe the stars from others has much higher worth than own stars.
Duplicated own stars doesn't mean "My map is good", it's just "I modded many maps" and "Look at my map".


EDITED : some words
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc
There should be a limit on how much kudosu you can use on a map because. Right now, kudosu doesn't reflect how good the map is, kudosu reflects how much a person has modded. Also, friends with benefits. It is pretty stupid when a map has a greater of stars than actual posts in the map thread and it is extremely stupid when people give a map 4 stars and they didn't even post in the thread. So yeah, SP definitely doesn't reflect anything


I could even pull a sapphireghost and star a specific person's map up to 8SP

I still prefer the old system.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
someone who has modded a lot of maps thinks that your map is good and thus gives it kudosu, thus they are a better judge than the random non-modder who just says "star!". Kudosu does indeed reflect how good a map is.

Of course, star rating still doesn't mean very much, as long as *ATs ignore it.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
Personally, I don't think we could ever measure the minimum requiring mods/SPs as it would very differ depends on the map. And at the end, MAT/BAT are the one who will be judging it's rankability while the amount of SP/mod has barely any influence. As far as I can see, SP's only way of actually working would be MAT/BAT putting SP as a considering factor while they create their to-mod list, but nothing farther then that.

Disregard the minimum SP/Mod, I'm facinated with the idea of keeping track how many mods the map received, which was served (somewhat) by the old normal SPs.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc

ziin wrote:

someone who has modded a lot of maps thinks that your map is good and thus gives it kudosu, thus they are a better judge than the random non-modder who just says "star!". Kudosu does indeed reflect how good a map is.

Of course, star rating still doesn't mean very much, as long as *ATs ignore it.
This system hasn't changed anything. If SP doesn't matter, then whats the point in having a system that uses it. If you are going by who mods it, then it doesn't matter how many stars the put on it.






btw, koon didn't even post in the thread


ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

ouranhshc wrote:

This system hasn't changed anything. If SP doesn't matter, then whats the point in having a system that uses it. If you are going by who mods it, then it doesn't matter how many stars the put on it.
A map with 100 stars is has been modded to death. Newbies know to stay away from it. A map with 3 stars will be much easier for them to mod. If this system doesn't change anything, why change it? If I drop more than 1 star on something, it's because I really like the map.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc
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