They can quickly turn into:
It isn't fair to expect players to read crescents/gradients to figure out what a slider does.
It isn't fair to expect players to read crescents/gradients to figure out what a slider does.
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Rule: Every slider must have a clear and visible path to...
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sooo even if i can tell which way the slider goes on BD's example , its a bad slider because the borders touch?
If it's very clear and obvious what it does, and difficult to change, then it should be allowed to pass.
That slider breaks the rule, but it can probably be allowed anyway.
That slider breaks the rule, but it can probably be allowed anyway.
That example doesn't actually matter since there's only one tick located somewhere in the middle. If you play it like a linear slider, you'll pass.
soo if a slider has a very clear path from start to end, does it really matter if the borders impactmm201 wrote:
If it's very clear and obvious what it does, and difficult to change, then it should be allowed to pass.
That slider breaks the rule, but it can probably be allowed anyway.
The same is true for any rule. Border impact is a good judge of readability in most cases.
wouldn't there have to be some serious impact for that to be an issuemm201 wrote:
The same is true for any rule. Border impact is a good judge of readability in most cases.
In my previous example, they only impacted by a small amount.
Think of it this way: It's impossible to make an unreadable slider if the borders never touch. If they do touch, it needs to be taken on a per-case basis.
Think of it this way: It's impossible to make an unreadable slider if the borders never touch. If they do touch, it needs to be taken on a per-case basis.
guideline it then?mm201 wrote:
In my previous example, they only impacted by a small amount.
Think of it this way: It's impossible to make an unreadable slider if the borders never touch. If they do touch, it needs to be taken on a per-case basis.
I feel like I should point out that anything in a map to which the mapper would say, "This might be confusing," or for which one has to go through a hefty process of justification, there is a fucking problem. Think about the amount of time that a player would have in order to read a slider. They don't have the time to analyse and scrutinise a slider before the thing goes back on itself twenty times, only for the player to lose their place and wish cancer upon the mapper.
It's common sense, and if the slider isn't readable at a glance, then it should be changed.
It's common sense, and if the slider isn't readable at a glance, then it should be changed.
Remember, this has been a rule for years. It'll be enforced through the same mean as it always has; very lenient BATs.ouranhshc wrote:
guideline it then?
The only difference is that it has finally been written down. *gasp* Seriously, dude, there's no reason to guideline something that has been a rule for, again, years with no real issues.
This. also add more:ouranhshc wrote:
guideline it then?mm201 wrote:
In my previous example, they only impacted by a small amount.
Think of it this way: It's impossible to make an unreadable slider if the borders never touch. If they do touch, it needs to be taken on a per-case basis.
A "hard-to-read" slider could be done with 2 reasons:
1. Mapper want that slider to be very difficult, very hard to read/predict.
2. Mapper have a musical sense to do a strange slider there.
For the first reason, obviously it should be banned, (hope we could already agree on this).
For the second one, it could come to a case-to-case thing, if none of the other people could share his feeling, he may be wrong. but use a rule for it is too much.
Hey, i did got them right as I said "zizaging with the red points" and it those wo case it zigzag vertically and horizontally.Sakura Hana wrote:
And the solution appears!SPOILERHakuNoKaemi got it completely wrong.Top Slider:
Bottom Slider:
Luna got it half-right (basically mixed them up)
Slider posted by mm have the gradients plus the ticks helping reading them, so they are judged "good"
i do think to divide it in:
a rule that disallow slider that pass on themself in a non-readable manner
a guideline that discourgare difficulty readable sliders
Topic Starter
I completely agree with this...NatsumeRin wrote:
This. also add more:ouranhshc wrote:
guideline it then?
A "hard-to-read" slider could be done with 2 reasons:
1. Mapper want that slider to be very difficult, very hard to read/predict.
2. Mapper have a musical sense to do a strange slider there.
For the first reason, obviously it should be banned, (hope we could already agree on this).
For the second one, it could come to a case-to-case thing, if none of the other people could share his feeling, he may be wrong. but use a rule for it is too much.
I don't follow how the music could imply, "here, there belongs a confusing, unreadable slider." Odd slider shapes in general, yes, but there are many ways to make readable but odd sliders.
Slider arts can usually be made readable, but should be considered for exemption if they honestly can't. A slider expert should always be consulted before resorting to this.
Slider arts can usually be made readable, but should be considered for exemption if they honestly can't. A slider expert should always be consulted before resorting to this.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/9868
old example.
Such sliders works as a flower, no one will get break on it (because just hold and don't move is enough), it's well-formed than any other slider types imo (and 100% sure not only me)
In this slider, it's not set there to be hard. the first character "hi" is a long voice stay there, and the next "so" is where the slider really begins, (and "ya" at the slider's end)
For such cases, can you think of a better way to replace? If not:
old example.
Such sliders works as a flower, no one will get break on it (because just hold and don't move is enough), it's well-formed than any other slider types imo (and 100% sure not only me)
In this slider, it's not set there to be hard. the first character "hi" is a long voice stay there, and the next "so" is where the slider really begins, (and "ya" at the slider's end)
For such cases, can you think of a better way to replace? If not:
If exemption is there, it shouldn't be made a rule, right? Let's say, make "don't use slidertrick (such as burai sliders) to make your map harder" a rule, and "try avoid use such sliders" as a guideline.mm201 wrote:
but should be considered for exemption if they honestly can't.
^ Can't believe I never thought to cite this map. Every weird slider in that map works. Seconding that entire post.
@NatsumeRin
The Second Example
You would have to know the song in order to know that
@Ekaru
this is public discussion of the rules
@General
I think that this shouldn't be a rule because it would be broken in most cases than not, and this is also would be case-by-case. The slider would have to have an extreme overlap in order to be unrankable which is usually fixed through the modding, and if the mapper doesn't want to change it, the map just doesn't get ranked
The Second Example
You would have to know the song in order to know that
@Ekaru
this is public discussion of the rules
@General
I think that this shouldn't be a rule because it would be broken in most cases than not, and this is also would be case-by-case. The slider would have to have an extreme overlap in order to be unrankable which is usually fixed through the modding, and if the mapper doesn't want to change it, the map just doesn't get ranked
That happens with pretty much every other rule, so mentioning this here isn't really useful.ouranhshc wrote:
be unrankable which is usually fixed through the modding, and if the mapper doesn't want to change it, the map just doesn't get ranked
However this is so subjective that it shouldn't even be a rule and be something more like "Please make sliders that don't make the player go lolwtf"
You don't need to know the song to play it (the shape already implies something), and after you know the song it plays better than any other types.ouranhshc wrote:
@NatsumeRin
The Second Example
You would have to know the song in order to know that.
Edit:
This is enough imo.Blue Dragon wrote:
However this is so subjective that it shouldn't even be a rule and be something more like "Please make sliders that don't make the player go lolwtf"
true.Blue Dragon wrote:
That happens with pretty much every other rule, so mentioning this here isn't really useful.ouranhshc wrote:
be unrankable which is usually fixed through the modding, and if the mapper doesn't want to change it, the map just doesn't get ranked
I wonder if anyone has thought about putting actual pictures of overlaps that should be avoided in the explanation.
What is that? really, I don't know.NatsumeRin wrote:
burai sliders
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=27721eldnl wrote:
What is that? really, I don't know.NatsumeRin wrote:
burai sliders
Since we're asking questions here, what are mm sliders? o_O I saw them mentioned on the first page and ... yea, what are they? D:
Transparent sliders.
The ones BD linked are mmsliders I think.
Blue Dragon wrote:
Well seems like no more input was given here so we've reached a decission, and this one isn't changing, sorry