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 Rhythm Incarnate 544 posts   |
Ok since bomber34 talk about the factors affect the fruit in spinner, I will give my results on it.
The only thing affect the spinner is the slider. I mean, the total number of slider you put in the map.(but placement, direction, tick rate, speed, or other small little thing doesn't affect it.) I don't know why but, it is truth... Thank you all who help and love my map. Best wishes to you all. AFKed. but still taking mod request via forum PM. Maps that I am proud of: (click to toggle) |
 Rhythm Incarnate 1,609 posts  |
Okay I don't have any news from peppy about the OD things... I still think it isn't modifying anything else than the total score. I'll suggest to make it equal to AR since in the old map version the AR was the OD.
From my modding experience I've to report 2 things wich could make 2 guidelines (I'm bad at redacting those things so i'll explain them) : - New combos : In standard mapping new combos usually are on white tick, but in CtB I think we could place them in the next tick (So the " fruit jumping off the plate" effect due to new combo would fit with the song). - Timing Sections (Mainly for audio changes) : Since we can't hit an object before the object have to be hitted in CtB, we may put our sections on the exact offset (not a bit before, like in standard mapping). Discuss.  |
 Combo Commander 260 posts   |
ZHSteven wrote: Ok since bomber34 talk about the factors affect the fruit in spinner, I will give my results on it. The only thing affect the spinner is the slider. I mean, the total number of slider you put in the map.(but placement, direction, tick rate, speed, or other small little thing doesn't affect it.) I don't know why but, it is truth... Random numbers on computers are typically generated by pseudo random number generators (PRNG)... especially when you want them to be deterministic and produce the same sequence each time. What will change the behaviour you see is if a different number of calls to the PRNG are made... meaning, that if the number of sliders are changing the way spinners look, then sliders are probably calling the PRNG for some reason. This also means that adding another spinner (or altering the length of one so it drops a different number of fruits) should definitely change any spinners that occur after it. When you were testing speed, did you make changes that would change the number of drops? I'm thinking that maybe the drops (large and small, since tick rate doesn't change things) might be slightly randomized in their position. If that's the case, then changing a slider's duration so it has more or less drops would alter any spinners from that point on in the map. Another option: PRNGs need a seed value to get them started. In order to make sure that the map plays the same every time, the same seed would be set at the start of each play. That could be a fixed number used for all maps, or it could be calculated from details of the map being played... including things like the total number of sliders. If this is the case, then adding a slider at the very end of the map would change spinners before it. Did you check this way, or did you only play with sliders at the start of the map? |
 Rhythm Incarnate 1,699 posts  |
Drafura wrote: - New combos : In standard mapping new combos usually are on white tick, but in CtB I think we could place them in the next tick (So the " fruit jumping off the plate" effect due to new combo would fit with the song). The new combo position depends on the mapper mostly. As long as it makes sense, there's no need to make a guideline for this. Drafura wrote: - Timing Sections (Mainly for audio changes) : Since we can't hit an object before the object have to be hitted in CtB, we may put our sections on the exact offset (not a bit before, like in standard mapping). It is true there is an offset difference between osu!Standard and CTB maps, which is around 15 ms (based on my experience in modding Standard diffs, and using the same General Offset that leads me to a ~0 ms offset difference while testing them). On the other hand, there's a general rule which says that every difficulty of the mapset must have the same timing settings (uninherited sections)... so fixing this difference will depend on the player (who has to put a General Offset of -15 ms from what he has of Standard playing), and not the mapper. About the OD settings, we can include it just as a guideline in order to set a proper standards regarding Difficulty Settings. MOD INFO:
Ѽ CTB difficulties modding assistance Ѽ (+standard) ~ Catch the Beat Rules/Guidelines Discussion Thread |
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Rhythm Incarnate 1,609 posts |
Deif wrote: The new combo position depends on the mapper mostly. As long as it makes sense, there's no need to make a guideline for this. Okay, I was just pointing out the fact that a new combo wich make sense in standard could not make sense in CtB. For me this make sense in standard : But this is visually much better in CtB : Cause the "explosion" effect of the new combo will fit with the song. Deif wrote: It is true there is an offset difference between osu!Standard and CTB maps, which is around 15 ms (based on my experience in modding Standard diffs, and using the same General Offset that leads me to a ~0 ms offset difference while testing them). On the other hand, there's a general rule which says that every difficulty of the mapset must have the same timing settings (uninherited sections)... so fixing this difference will depend on the player (who has to put a General Offset of -15 ms from what he has of Standard playing), and not the mapper. I think you missunderstood what I said. I'm not talking about an offset difference between modes. I'm talking about the possibility (in standard) to hit a circle before the offset of this same circle wich isn't present in CtB mode. For example : This is a standard beatmap with an audio change timing section. You can see the timing section is added on the 1/4 tick before the (2), this is used in standard mapping cause if you put it in the same offset of the note the player could be able to click before the timing section and the audio change will not take effect for this object. But in CtB we can't catch an object before its offset so I think we could be able to set our audio changes on the object offet and not 1/8 or 1/4 tick before. I'm surprised that there's no guideline or rule about this in standard. It's something used in all standard beatmaps for audio changes... For uninherited timing section the standard rule is applied of course : Uninherited timing sections must be the same in every difficulty of the mapset. That is, each section must have the same BPM and offset in each difficulty. Furthermore, there must not be extra or missing uninherited sections in any difficulty. A song's timing doesn't change between difficulties, so there's no sense in having different uninherited sections per difficulty. |
 Rhythm Incarnate 2,492 posts  |
it all depends on your perspective drafura. Why can't explosions occur on 4?
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Combo Commander 260 posts |
Personally, I think it typically makes more sense to have the last beat of a phrase clear the plate so the plate is clear for the next bar... the emphasis of the splash added before the incoming downbeat, rather than caused by it. But that could partially be because I've gotten used to playing maps that way.
Almost certainly there are songs for which moving the splash to the lead beat would make sense... for example, songs using back beat rhythms. I don't think there really needs to be more than to note that combo starts are more flexible in CtB... if a mapper wants to use the splash like a mini-fountain effect to emphasize something, then they're free to do so. The only real concern for grouping in CtB is when the combos are so long that too much fruit builds up on the plate. |
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Rhythm Incarnate 1,609 posts |
ziin wrote: it all depends on your perspective drafura. Why can't explosions occur on 4? In my point of view if the explosion occurs on 4 the combo remains okay but the visual effect is not so good. I didn't say it can't occur on 4 that's why I'm talking about guideline not rule, this is not following standard mapping so I think it's worth to mention it (Some of my new combos has been mentionned in a mod so I want to see with the community if this could be allowed or not in CtB mapping). bwross wrote: if a mapper wants to use the splash like a mini-fountain effect to emphasize something, then they're free to do so. Yup something like this. But I still disagree with the "new combo each note" wich is much more annoying than a 12+ combo, so mini foutain is maybe not the good word wich reminds me a kiai abuse ^^" |
 Beatmap Appreciation Team 7,718 posts  |
fwiw, Guidelines are like rules except they can only be broken on special cases.
Also your idea of the plate being cleared on 1, is like asking on Standard for a geki/katu to appear on 1... it just doesnt look good (Except on some songs) and even if they do heal the scar will remain and nothing will ever be the same |
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Rhythm Incarnate 1,609 posts |
Sakura wrote: Also your idea of the plate being cleared on 1, is like asking on Standard for a geki/katu to appear on 1... it just doesnt look good (Except on some songs) So it's something we should ban in CtB mapping (Except on some songs) ? Or we can use it since it makes a pretty good visual effect ? (I have to know if I have to modify my map now :s) |
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Beatmap Appreciation Team 7,718 posts |
 Rhythm Incarnate 3,706 posts  |
 Beatmap Appreciation Team 2,092 posts  |
 Rhythm Incarnate 1,369 posts |
I tested it on Ronald McDonalds insanity and at this point
The combo color of the Hit Fruit is not that noticable different from the rest On the Picture it may seem easy to spot but it isn't really Have to say that that won't happen that often though but I still think that the fruit should stay at least 1/2 Beat apart from the spinner Maybe set it as guideline instead of a rule ._. |
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Beatmap Appreciation Team 2,092 posts |
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