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[Proposal] Various Skinning Things

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Topic Starter
Noffy
So, uh, over the last two days I was reviewing skinning things a bit more and noticed some parts that probably should be updated?
Therefore, this thread is for multiple skin related ranking criteria things! Let's go go~

Ordered by what I think is most to least important :oops:

Part 1: Make Life Easier.

tl;dr: Add a template to the skin set list!

The wiki kinda sucks. You have this maaasssive set list to look through to check things, and if we were to include images of the elements in the set list itself it'd end up a bloated mess.
That's why I've made this!

.rar file link!

This rar file includes all elements mentioned on the skin set list. The files are divided into their sets, and optional elements are inside subfolders in those set folders. Also, due to how beatmap skinning only uses the old anchor positions for life bars, the old version elements are what are included as the template images.
I believe it would be very beneficial to somehow include a link to this .rar on the skin set list page. That way, if someone wants to, they can have some form of visual reference.

Why I strongly believe this would be a good thing:
Instead of manually looking through a list for a set, just copy the elements from the beatmap skinning templates .rar to start off your beatmap skin.
Have a visual reference instead of staring at a bunch of text
Gives you an option of a different way to look at sets.

I've found that this folder set I've made for myself has made checking maps with skins in them much much easier.

Of course, you'd still need to read the skin set list to see any notes, but this should still help a lot! I think!


Note: yes, i know the wiki can't host rar files, it could be uploaded to mediafire or something like beatmap packs are


Part 2, updating the skin set list page some more (while we're at it):

tl;dr: fixes not changes

This note should be removed:
The note on star2.png , which is in the Playfield set.
Its note currently states "must not be skinned in beatmapsets which have neither kiai time nor breaks" . This is misleading and a bit wrong, because even in maps which have no kiai time or breaks, the star2.png image is still used during combobursts.

Misc wording fixes..
The entirety of this skin set is gameplay relevant. Overlaps or gaps between the numbers themselves are set by the user-specific skin and cannot be influenced within the beatmap itself. Please note that the recommended sizes for all elements in this set is handled via a guideline on the Ranking Criteria Proposal.
The entirety of this skin set is gameplay relevant. Please note that the sizes of the elements within this skin set are handled via a guideline on the Ranking Criteria proposal.
The following tables contain all skin sets that are presented in the draft worked out by the skinning subdivision of the UBKRC-Project (name credits go to Ephemeral).
These refer to the proposal/draft, even though it's already been implemented as the RC.

The lines involving "on the Ranking Criteria Proposal." should be changed to "in the General Ranking Criteria". The proposal they are referring to was already implemented.

"presented in the draft" in the third quote could be removed entirely
->
The following tables contain all skin sets that were worked out by the skinning subdivision of the UBKRC-Project (name credits go to Ephemeral).


Part 3, the main rule itself:

tl;dr: Unused files stuff

the current rule in the general RC says this:
When skinning gameplay elements, complete sets of elements need to be skinned in order to avoid conflicts between user-specific and beatmap-specific skins. A reference for this can be found on the Skin Set List. When skinning an element that is marked as optional, you need to include all the required elements of the respective set, but you are free to skip other optional elements unless they are grouped with the element you are skinning.

This does not really account for unused files
Example 1: If you skin the default numbers, used in hitobjects for standard, you have to skin numbers 0-9. But, if you never have a combo more than 7, that means 8,9, and 0 would be unused.
Example 2: Forcing skinning of slider elements in taiko. If the taiko map never uses sliders, these would be unused files.

Proposal:

Add +
However, if a required skin element in a set would be unused, do not include it.
after the current big paragraph.

I don't know if that's the best way to fix it but it certainly should be addressed.


Part 4, some clarification:

tl;dr: (-n) needs explanation

It should be mentioned on the skin set list page itself that when a filename has (-n) in it, this means it is animateable. Like hitcircleoverlay can either be hitcircleoverlay.png or hitcircleoverlay-0.png and it may count upwards to animate it. Why do I say this? I've seen a map where someone literally put the filename as (-n) and they couldn't figure out why it wasn't working...

Proposal:

If a filename contains `(-n)`, this means it can be animated. For example, hitcircleoverlay(-n).png means it can be named either hitcircleoverlay.png or hitcircleoverlay-0.png. It may count up from 0 with multiple images to animate the element.

I figure this could be positioned like so:


Thanks for reading 🌻
Kagetsu
commenting my thoughts on this with numbers so it's easier to read

    1. i dunno if it's actually that much of a necessity, i get the point that it would make things easier but to be honest, the tables explain it fairly well in my opinion. in any case, anyone who is interested in adding a custom skin to their beatmap should by extension have some sort of knowledge about skinning (or know someone who does) so i doubt this is something we should be focusing our attention on.
  • i feel like most of the stuff written in this point are more of a wiki thing rather than ranking criteria related, as it's mostly wording fixes. anyways, the star2 thing makes sense i guess. we could also delete sliderpoint10.png sliderpoint30.png and spinner-osu.png from their respective skin sets since they're no longer used given the fact that current client does not support skin version 1 and fallback is not a thing anymore
agree
again i feel this is more of a wiki thing and changes could be suggested on the wiki repository, i don't think it's that necessary but i agree with it anyways
polka
1. yes, and in rebuttle to kagetsu, it doesnt hurt anybody to have this resource available. necessary? no, nothing is. helpful? extremely.
2. .... sure
3. yes, and as for kagetsu, i use the old skin for mapping and testing and it supports fairly well. what do you mean by this?
4. yes

if I may add 2 cents I would like to know the absolute anarchy we avoid by not allowing us to leave certain things in a set unskinned per beatmap. Sure certain things like hitcircles would need a full set to make sure theres no overlapping issues with user skin but if I just want to change the sliderball, but now I have to add a follow ring that people dont like; doesnt match their actual skin, well now theyll disable the skin. makes no sense; the reasoning behind this. furthermore, some sets actually legitimately have no reasoning. why is the follow point in a circle set? its not even on or near the circle. sure it goes circle to circle but isnt that more cursor based?
Kagetsu

Veridian wrote:

3. yes, and as for kagetsu, i use the old skin for mapping and testing and it supports fairly well. what do you mean by this?
i didn't mean to say that old skins don't work on current version, my point is that old features from those skins were either removed or replaced for something else, (see slider styles for example)

the client currently doesn't "read" skin version 1, it probably considers them like they were lastest version so adding lines like SliderStyle : 1 is pointless since those get ignored on the current client. same thing happens with the mentioned sliderpoint10.png sliderpoint30.png and spinner-osu.png files.
Topic Starter
Noffy
1.) It doesn't really have to do with how much knowledge someone has of skinning in general. It's not like the proposed skin set.rar includes an entire tutorial on skinning (also, it contains quite a few elements that are missing from the skinning template on the forums). The aim is to make a more accessible version of the skin-set list divisions of skin elements in a way that can be referenced visually, or in a way which makes it easier to start a beatmap skin which follows the rules.
At the moment unless you have a folder divided like mine you'd need to mostly go through a much larger general skin template and find each element individually while referencing the list rather than drop the entire set into a map folder at once.


Kagetsu wrote:

the client currently doesn't "read" skin version 1, it probably considers them like they were lastest version so adding lines like SliderStyle : 1 is pointless since those get ignored on the current client. same thing happens with the mentioned sliderpoint10.png sliderpoint30.png and spinner-osu.png files.
Errm, yes it does. The different sliderstyles have been deprecated but you can still set a user skin to version 1 and it will still impact:
followpoint behavior, sliderscore points will appear, old spinner style will be used (including the spinner-osu), etc.


Veridian wrote:

if I may add 2 cents I would like to know the absolute anarchy we avoid by not allowing us to leave certain things in a set unskinned per beatmap. Sure certain things like hitcircles would need a full set to make sure theres no overlapping issues with user skin but if I just want to change the sliderball, but now I have to add a follow ring that people dont like; doesnt match their actual skin, well now theyll disable the skin. makes no sense; the reasoning behind this. furthermore, some sets actually legitimately have no reasoning. why is the follow point in a circle set? its not even on or near the circle. sure it goes circle to circle but isnt that more cursor based?
I think I agree with this. Maybe instead of having a separate clause for unused files and reorganizing the skin set list further the skin set rule could be changed into a guideline that would be enforced as long as not skinning a full set is causing broken stuff (which is the intent) and then it can be explained why it may be not-totally-followed it if it doesn't cause broken stuff.
If that makes sense.
:?:
Kagetsu

Noffy wrote:

Kagetsu wrote:

the client currently doesn't "read" skin version 1, it probably considers them like they were lastest version so adding lines like SliderStyle : 1 is pointless since those get ignored on the current client. same thing happens with the mentioned sliderpoint10.png sliderpoint30.png and spinner-osu.png files.
Errm, yes it does. The different sliderstyles have been deprecated but you can still set a user skin to version 1 and it will still impact:
followpoint behavior, sliderscore points will appear, old spinner style will be used (including the spinner-osu), etc.
kinda weird because i tested long ago and they didn't work. apparently it works just fine now lol

that said, the proposal is ok in my opinion, i don't think people would disagree with it. the only thing that might be "problematic" is the .rar thing as wiki people may not like uploading things to external servers though beatmap packs are uploaded to mediafire so it should be ok i guess
Okoratu
assets are up, the changes are in, give it like 6 hours to actually update, read the changes over at https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/1471
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