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Tapping hand position: Curled or extended?

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Topic Starter
Mio Winter
So I have three questions about your tapping hand position, and then I want you to tell me a bit about your tapping stamina and speed.

Question 1: Is your tapping hand curled or extended? (See images below.)
Question 2: Do you rest your wrist on the desk or do you hover? (You could hover for example if you rest your elbow on your armchair.)
Question 3: What's the angle of your elbow? Is it obtuse (wider than 90 degrees) or acute (below 90 degrees)? Or is it nearly straight because your keyboard is far away?
Question 4: How good is your tapping speed and/or stamina? Link to maps you can play (and what score you get on it) would be helpfwl as an objective measure.


Extended hand position

Curled hand position (w/ Cookiezi thumb support!)

Curled hand position slightly more extended
Topic Starter
Mio Winter
1. Curled, slightly more extended than the first curled image. I find that I tap much faster with curled, but that may just be because I'm used to it.
2. I rest my wrist on the desk. I used to hover, and I think this was bad, because I was supporting the weight of my hand with my fingers at the same time as I was tapping. I think this gave me bad finger control.
3. Angle is very slightly more acute than 90 degrees.
4. My best score on Igorrr - Unpleasant Sonata is 90.75 % 599x 7 miss. (I didn't mention this to brag, I mention it in order to try to give an approximate measure of how fast I can and cannot tap.)
zeplic

Mio Winter wrote:

4. My best score on Igorrr - Unpleasant Sonata is 90.75 % 599x 7 miss. (I didn't mention this to brag, I mention it in order to try to give an approximate measure of how fast I can and cannot tap.)

wtf nice brag post dude
Ninonuko
Question 1: Is your tapping hand curled or extended? Totally straight but tilted
Question 2: Do you rest your wrist on the desk or do you hover? hover
Question 3: What's the angle of your elbow?exactly 90 degrees I'd say
Question 4: How good is your tapping speed and/or stamina? well... midnight siege dt
arzi

zeplic wrote:

wtf nice brag post dude
Ninonuko
wtf nice brag post dude... nice brag about your ability to shitpost
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

Ninonuko wrote:

Question 1: Is your tapping hand curled or extended? Totally straight but tilted
Question 2: Do you rest your wrist on the desk or do you hover? hover
Question 3: What's the angle of your elbow?exactly 90 degrees I'd say
Question 4: How good is your tapping speed and/or stamina? well... midnight siege dt
Oh, you actually FCd it with 92 % acc. 225 bpm. I guess that disproves my hypothesis that you can't stamina or tapping speed with an extended hand position...
Ninonuko
it's not really extended like the picture you posted, my forearm is just straight (looks similiar to 3rd pic but not as curled) but tilted, I bent my arm so my tapping hand is right in front of my chest with forearm facing forward, the reason is it allows me to wrist streaming easier.
Ideal
1. extended curled
2. rest on desk
3. i have no idea lol
4. djpop arrival of tears hddt tier speed but my stamina sucks so i cant hold it for long (also i have literally zero finger control)
ManuelOsuPlayer
Question 1: Way more extended than you show.
Question 2: Dosn't matter if i hover or rest, nothing change. I rest due to laziness.
Question 3: Nearly straight to let all my muscles work relaxed. A small angle (15°) from being 100% strainght to don't tense arm muscles.
Question 4: How good is your tapping speed and/or stamina? I have reached 315bpm when i was playing deathstreams daily and didn't have any muscle memory attached to any bpm. Right now can burst short 300bpm streams for really low time, around 20 circles SS and then no stamina to keep the bpm at next ones. I have way more stamina than i need. I can play 220-270 only streams 1 marathons without stop. May be due to use Laptop destroyed keys what may down around 20-30g and you don't need to do almost movment to get to the key activation point.
My acc isn't any good due to unconsistent tapping. Overstreaming/Understreaming around 10-20bpm holding combos.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/28751 07th Expansion - rog-unlimitation
AngelHoney
Personal Best (#14692 achieved 4 months ago)
Score 3,040,270 (90.37%)
Max Combo 268
300 / 100 / 50 524 / 77 / 4
Misses 4
Geki (Elite Beat!) 46
Katu (Beat!) 17
Mods None

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/99584
Various Artists - osu! ~ Death Stream Compilation 2
Compilation
1400 combo 50 misses 30-40kk score 87% acc or something like that. My most played map.

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/791274&m=0
goreshit - burn this moment into the retina of my eye

Insane
Personal Best (#3972 achieved 14 days ago)
Score 5,725,630 (89.97%)
Max Combo 402
300 / 100 / 50 1582 / 188 / 11
Misses 49
Geki (Elite Beat!) 161
Katu (Beat!) 74
Mods None

Extra
Personal Best (#2479 achieved 14 days ago)
Score 2,372,070 (78.46%)
Max Combo 191
300 / 100 / 50 1586 / 433 / 36
Misses 158
Geki (Elite Beat!) 89
Katu (Beat!) 104
Mods NF

UNDEAD CORPORATION - Everything will freeze
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=552068&m=0&nm=1#scores
Extra: I have a 89% acc 13 misses play but had NF.
Personal Best (#6149 achieved about a month ago)
Score 3,722,126 (79.54%)
Max Combo 235
300 / 100 / 50 977 / 314 / 48
Misses 31
Geki (Elite Beat!) 116
Katu (Beat!) 99
Mods None

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1294884?m=0
KTGSTER'S GRAVITY
Replay https://osu.ppy.sh/web/osu-getreplay.ph ... 201830&m=0
Personal Best (#178 achieved 14 days ago)
Score 2,455,280 (81.99%)
Max Combo 181
300 / 100 / 50 546 / 188 / 3
Misses 6
Geki (Elite Beat!) 46
Katu (Beat!) 53
Mods None

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/796161 Epica - Martyr of the Free Word
Personal Best (#2315 achieved about a month ago)
Score 5,649,728 (82.52%)
Max Combo 272
300 / 100 / 50 1521 / 389 / 53
Misses 48
Geki (Elite Beat!) 82
Katu (Beat!) 82
Mods None

sakuzyo - Senkyou Ranbu
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1052979&m=0
N/A's Hard
Personal Best (#109 achieved 4 months ago)
Score 14,520,416 (98.26%)
Max Combo 1006
300 / 100 / 50 523 / 14 / 0
Misses 0
Geki (Elite Beat!) 136
Katu (Beat!) 14
Mods DT

Insane
Personal Best (#205 achieved 4 months ago)
Score 15,535,818 (90.81%)
Max Combo 1002
300 / 100 / 50 809 / 115 / 5
Misses 5
Geki (Elite Beat!) 68
Katu (Beat!) 59
Mods None

EX
Personal Best (#1231 achieved 4 months ago)
Score 3,736,500 (79.96%)
Max Combo 304
300 / 100 / 50 810 / 250 / 28
Misses 35
Geki (Elite Beat!) 49
Katu (Beat!) 77
Mods None
Penguin
Question 1: My tapping hand is Curled with similar curled fingers as Cookiezi, but without the thumb support
Question 2: I rest my elbow on the edge of my desk, but my wrist is completely hovering when I play
Question 3: My elbow is at an obtuse angle most of the time. I'd say it's around 120 degrees give or take
Question 4: My tapping and streaming speed is fairly inconsistent to be honest. It really depends on how much I warm up. On average, I can comfortable deathstream 200bpm songs (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/67565 and https://osu.ppy.sh/s/34348) and single tap 230-240 bpm songs.

Streaming BPM Ratings

120 140 160 170 180 190 195 200 210 215 220 230 240 250 260 270 280 290 300
by Dexus
mulraf
Question 1: curled slightly more extended
Question 2: hover. i have a table with a keyboard tray which is just slightly above my knees so i can almost rest my wrists on my knees but i don't usually do that either.
Question 3: almost 90° i guess. slightly acute?
Question 4: horrible. i can barely pass maps like o'er the flood or uta stamina-wise. my speed is even more horrible. everything above 200 bpm streams is a pain. over 220 bpm and i'm completely out. highest bpm streams: rog-unlimitation, 525 combo, 86,56% acc. but that was an exception. highest stamina: save me, 1660 combo, 91,68% acc. i actually feel uncomfortable streaming over 180bpm, 160-180 bpm is just right.
zeplic

Penguin Sanchez wrote:

Question 1: My tapping hand is Curled with similar curled fingers as Cookiezi, but without the thumb support
Question 2: I rest my elbow on the edge of my desk, but my wrist is completely hovering when I play
Question 3: My elbow is at an obtuse angle most of the time. I'd say it's around 120 degrees give or take
Question 4: My tapping and streaming speed is fairly inconsistent to be honest. It really depends on how much I warm up. On average, I can comfortable deathstream 200bpm songs (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/67565 and https://osu.ppy.sh/s/34348) and single tap 230-240 bpm songs.

Streaming BPM Ratings

120 140 160 170 180 190 195 200 210 215 220 230 240 250 260 270 280 290 300
by Dexus

im really struggling to do anything consistent past 190bpm single tapping or streaming for that matter. do you have any advice
Penguin

zeplic wrote:

im really struggling to do anything consistent past 190bpm single tapping or streaming for that matter. do you have any advice
Honestly, I don't have much advice besides to play often to keep yourself if tip top shape. Play a multitude of maps to help all areas of play, from aim to speed to acc, just everything. Always challenge youself, but not to the point of failure. I didn't do anything special to "train" certain areas of my play, I've literally just been playing for fun for the past few months, and I've seen a ton of natural improvement. Don't focus on farm maps, focus on self improvement. PP will come with improvement.

Some people are just naturally faster at progressing than other people. It might just take more time for you. Even if you don't see instant results, just keep on going. You'll get there eventually.
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

ManuelOsuPlayer wrote:

Question 1: Way more extended than you show.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/99584
Various Artists - osu! ~ Death Stream Compilation 2
Compilation
1400 combo 50 misses 30-40kk score 87% acc or something like that. My most played map.
If you can get 87 % acc on that map, you are basically god to me. Now I'm very curious how you manage that with an extended hand position. Could you take a picture of your hand position (or video)? (Is OK if not.)

Also, I think you misunderstand what "300 bpm" streams are (unless I'm the one misunderstanding; I'm not an expert). Can you link a map with what you call 300 bpm streams? (If you can stream 300 bpm, then that's faster than I thought humans could stream with two fingers; maybe you're using 3?.)
E m i
1. when i look at your pictures i can't determine what is extended and what is curled. so i post pic https://puu.sh/zMPcO/871bbdc53d.jpg
2. i rest my thumb and wrist on the desk, sometimes i lift wrist
3. 90 degrees pretty much
4. my speed is lacking when compared to stream players of similar "tier", and my stamina is weirdly way past anything that i can even tap because my only problem is occasionally locking up on streams.
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

Momi wrote:

1. when i look at your pictures i can't determine what is extended and what is curled. so i post pic https://puu.sh/zMPcO/871bbdc53d.jpg
2. i rest my thumb and wrist on the desk, sometimes i lift wrist
3. 90 degrees pretty much
4. my speed is lacking when compared to stream players of similar "tier", and my stamina is weirdly way past anything that i can even tap because my only problem is occasionally locking up on streams.
I would call that curled. I may have been ambiguous in the post.

With a curled hand position, the fingers' third knuckles are always higher up than the fingers' second knuckles (counting from the tip of finger and down, so the first knuckle is the one closest to the nail). With an "extended" hand position, the second knuckles can sometimes be higher than (or level with) the third knuckles, like they are in my first picture. My hypothesis was that the extended hand position is terrible for streaming fast, but maybe Manuel can show me wrong.

Edit: Also, insane scores. D:
ManuelOsuPlayer

Mio Winter wrote:

If you can get 87 % acc on that map, you are basically god to me. Now I'm very curious how you manage that with an extended hand position. Could you take a picture of your hand position (or video)? (Is OK if not.)
Of course, i'll try to up a vídeo soon. Give me some time, i'll try to up replay and hands cam at same time.

Mio Winter wrote:

Also, I think you misunderstand what "300 bpm" streams are (unless I'm the one misunderstanding; I'm not an expert). Can you link a map with what you call 300 bpm streams? (If you can stream 300 bpm, then that's faster than I thought humans could stream with two fingers; maybe you're using 3?.)
When i mean 300bpm stream, i mean 300bpm stream, not 300bpm music with 100 bpm streams. (My high bpm singletap is the oposite, i'm really slow singletapping) Also i mean streaming, not doubletaping or shit like that.

There are some things what helped me a lot to reach high bpm streaming.
1° Hitsounds. If i try to just move the fingers on purpouse at that speed without music or hitsounds isn't even close. I read the first AR circles to make the hitsounds sound and understand the bpm i'm streaming, i reply those hitsounds having the hand full relaxed instead read the circles to keep tapping them. Todo know when to stop streaming i check where the cursor is and read the last 5 AR circles ¿and make the hitsounds make sense?

2° Don't build muscle memory at any specific BPM. (Just play random songs without retry them to don't get my fingers used to hold any bpm) If i play all day 160bpm streams, my acc and consistence will be insane playing that streams, but play even 200 bpm will hurt and will be hard to my muscles). If instead i play streams compilaciones i'm not able to +98% any hard map but i'm able to stream tons of bpm. I want to be able to stream any bpm by listen and reading instead muscle memory. Late game strategy. .

3° Play easy stream maps 4-5* where you can get 98%+ acc and just right after use same finger coordination to play way faster ones.

4° Don't move the hand or arm never while streaming to keep working exactly same muscles.

5° Don't aim the streams on purpouse. Just tap them, coordination make my aim following my tap. If i overstream, my cursor also go more ahead than it should be.
That means, by watching where my cursor is while streaming i know if i'm overstreaming or understreaming, so i can stream faster or slower to compensate without lose the combo.

6° A stream map played using HT+HR is harder to acc than nomod. If you practice like that, play those maps no mod will be way easier to acc and have better UR.

Almost all the good players read all the circles 1 by one. Some read the AR circles before reach them, other read the circles when the cursor is exactly on top. Others read the rings of each circle...
There are a lot of ways.

You could just play the oldest maps you find to practice AR circles reading and play streams like that. Your fingers will follow your reading soon or later.
Use map flow to burst long streams as the cursor follow circles.
Tap music beats.
Follow rhythm.
Repeat hitsounds.
Use coordination.

What ever.

Anyways if you want up ranks, 240bpm is more than enought. Anything over that isn't worth at all to learn. My muscles couldn't hold up +315bpm so there is also a wrist phisical limitation what you can't pass over.

I remember to practice picking a stream map and overstreaming - understreaming as a speed training to don't destroy my muscles or stamina, so i could keep practicing as long as i wanted high bpm. Example, pick a 160 bpm stream map, stream the 10 first circles 160 bpm, the next then overstream to reach 170 bpm, down speed until 150 bpm to don't drop combo, go up to 170 again, down to 150 again.

Pick a 170 bpm. Reach 180 and down to 160...

Repeat until you want.

I was doing that to improve my UR control and hit everything on the middle without read AR circles to tap, and seems to be a pretty usefull speed practice since your muscles don't get as tired as holding the stream bpm. So you can find your speed limit pretty easily and work 10bpm under it and reach that bpm overstreaming for short time until you find confortable keeping the bpm.
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

ManuelOsuPlayer wrote:

5° Don't aim the streams on purpouse. Just tap them, coordination make my aim following my tap. If i overstream, my cursor also go more ahead than it should be.
That means, by watching where my cursor is while streaming i know if i'm overstreaming or understreaming, so i can stream faster or slower to compensate without lose the combo.


I remember to practice picking a stream map and overstreaming - understreaming as a speed training to don't destroy my muscles or stamina, so i could keep practicing as long as i wanted high bpm. Example, pick a 160 bpm stream map, stream the 10 first circles 160 bpm, the next then overstream to reach 170 bpm, down speed until 150 bpm to don't drop combo, go up to 170 again, down to 150 again.

Pick a 170 bpm. Reach 180 and down to 160...

Repeat until you want.

I was doing that to improve my UR control and hit everything on the middle without read AR circles to tap, and seems to be a pretty usefull speed practice since your muscles don't get as tired as holding the stream bpm. So you can find your speed limit pretty easily and work 10bpm under it and reach that bpm overstreaming for short time until you find confortable keeping the bpm.
Those are some very interesting tips, thank you.

I'm looking forward to the video as well. : )
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