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Design of a Taiko-specific editor

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Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Topic Starter
Endaris
Hi,

judging from the latest development on osu!lazer (the top bar of the editor got added, wohoo) the time might be near where the editor is implemented and in that context one might also come back to one specific topic: mode-specific editors - a Taiko-specific editor.

I took a look around and I found some relevant threads in feature requests that take on this topic:
Taiko editing mode shortcuts/improvements
[Taiko Editor] Organize Notes according to gameplay elements
Taiko skin toggle when mapping for osu!taiko?
Taiko Editor GUI

As a result of these threads there is a list of changes that should be made.

General Changes:
  1. use Taiko hitsounds of the skin within the editor
  2. if the option "Use Taiko skin for Taiko mode" is checked, the Taiko skin will also be used in the editor unless "Always use default skin" is checked
  3. expand live-mapping: recognise big notes
  4. expand live-mapping: give an option map drumrolls and spinners (maybe not that important)
  5. change any text relating to slider velocity to "scroll speed"
  6. (put the gamemode selection in the song setup on the first tab so it is easier to find for new non-standard-mappers)
  7. don't require the mapper to set AR/CS when the mode is set to Taiko
The purpose of this thread should be to find a design that gives mappers and modders the most comfortable experience.
Right now, about 80% of the space in the editor is useless for Taiko (everything in a red box):
Current space usage

Based on this and mostly the Taiko Editor GUI thread (the other threads are more about hotkeys and options) I made a sketch how a Taiko Compose-editor would appear useful to me. I was a bit more greedy in how Taiko-specific it could get opposed to just some small QoL things.

Sketch history:
sketch v1
raw sketch

Showing this to someone it seemed to leave that person a bit confused so I shall explain a bit what I thought when making this:
sketch with marked areas

1. The functionality buttons are at the top now. As Taiko is a sidescrolling game I wanted to have as much space as possible to left and right so I could see more notes at the same time. Unlike originally suggested in the feature request thread I included own buttons for each type of note opposed to adding them through the circle and hitsoundbuttons as the amount of buttons it takes is the same (4) but having to tap once for a K instead of 3 times is naturally an advantage.
3. (nice order, I know) This is the mapping track. The ticks and the zoom-buttons moved here so the timeline on the top is no longer necessary. Placing and deleting notes, nudging and everything goes here.
2. This area is basically about the multitrack-view. The most right button on the top would toggle the multitrack view on or off, letting me see the notes of the Taiko difficulties with the next lower/higher SR, meaning that if the map on the pic had another Inner Oni and a Kantan I couldn't see them while editing the Muzukashii but I could see them while editing the Futsuu and Oni respectively. If there is no diff easier or harder, only 1 reference track would be shown.
The arrows around the timeline zoom-buttons would allow me to switch between difficulties on the fly (what is now File -> Open Difficulty... -> For Editing).

There is still an area of decent size left on the bottom that could be made even bigger by reducing the track size a bit and I'm not quite sure what could be added there. A difficulty curve like in mania could be neat. Adding more difficulty tracks for reference might be an option too.
Personally I can also imagine the volume bars reachable through View -> Volume being more accessible there as they are fairly useful to check if the design of a pattern matches the song. Whether or not we will be able to customise areas of the editor to our own liking is not set yet so I wouldn't count on it yet.
sketch v2


Top row is left with d, k, a toggle for big notes, drumroll, spinner(den), scrollspeedchange, two buttons that are yet to fill (one potentially to toggle multitrack view again) and lock notes.
Nothing changed in the middle compared to the first one. There's now a density chart in 1:1 relation to the bottom timeline. There may be some space left to the sides but it would also possible to put it over the entire length.

Relevant posts leading to this design: p/6255367 until p/6258066


So...after this wall of text I'd like to know from you what you think about my sketch, what is bad, what could be improved, what is gravely missing? As I spent only a small amount of time editing Taiko compared to many of you, you certainly have something to add or maybe even a completely different approach.

I will try to add a summary into this opening post as discussion (hopefully) progresses.
Last edited by Endaris , edited 5 times in total.
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
Good:
  1. Good usage of the alloted space
  2. Separation of the distinct elements and correct usage of words*
  3. Easier access to multiple SV*
  4. "Closer to reality" editing with the cursor on the left*
  5. Multitrack (jesus FUCK people want it)
Bad:
  1. Lock notes is not irrelevant. It locks notes in time as well, which is precious when you accidentally nudge a note and had undo states disabled. In fact, it would be EVEN MORE relevant in the new Taiko editor.
  2. * Separation of elements is really overdone, and will make quick fixes more tedious. Simply having all note types into note color THEN note size not only makes stuff less tedious, but saves one spot at the top: instead of having d, k, D, K, you have: note, color (on=k, off=d), size (on=big, off=small). Also adding for that matter that people who put basic rhythm and change notes will be more annoyed than pleased. (I'm one of them)
  3. * While it seems a great idea on paper, it will likely just open the timing menu, making this option kind of moot.
  4. New combo is irrelevant.
  5. * Something more nitpicky, but having the cursor at the very left is not all that good; the ability to move it should at least be an option.
Missing:
  1. Your explanation for the #1 space does not start on a new line.
  2. How will adding rolls and dens work? I suppose it will work much like osu!mania, though. However, it is not explained at all and will confuse people who have not mapped osu!mania ans were used to "place slider to put roll".
  3. The lower panel should have at least a density chart of the entire map with the playback bar - I don't think you need many tools to map taiko efficiently. If there is a waveform, it would be actually even better so you see overmaps more easily and stuff yknow.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Topic Starter
Endaris
Thanks for your feedback.
I will make sure to include Lock notes into the revised sketch.

Now on the separation of elements...if I understand you correctly you start mapping by putting nothing but d to outline the basic rhythm and then you go over everything you placed and change notes to k where fit. Your problem would be then that you can't click notes to select and change them but that you would have to scroll to the actual tick of the note in order to override it with a new note input, correct?

If that is the case then I think this could be solved with some sort dynamic cursor while keeping an own hotkey/button for k. Trying to visualise this very quickly:
Visualisation
You click on the first k and ...boom!



Basically, in the moment you click on a note, the cursor would jump to that tick without changing the view of notes and you would be able to do a direct override with the k hotkey. At the same time this is actually the last point of your "bad" list put into reality.
Would you still see a problem here with k being accessible through an own key only or do you think that this would satisfy your needs?

If this does not adress your problem, it would help if you described your mapping process a bit more in detail.

As I'm a bit short on time right now, I'll comment the rest tomorrow and also update OP with a new sketch.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Topic Starter
Endaris
Ok, here we go...

About the scrollspeed button: Well you're right that it is going to be lame if there is no follow up on this. Inherited sections are a powerful tool for the other gamemodes where changes of hitsoundsets and hitsoundvolume play a huge role but in Taiko they just don't.
Personally I can see two major applications of using inherited sections in Taiko aside from Kiai.
The first one is literally not putting only the start of a section with modified scrollspeed but also having the option to put the end right away. Basically a small mask asking "from" and "to", maybe with a Kiai checkbox.
The second one (I'm a bit more sceptical about how well this would work) would be the generation of a scrollspeed gradient on demand towards an existing scrollspeed changed:
SPOILER

I hope you can read my handwriting

As for rolls and dens: Right now I would imagine placing them like a spinner in osu!standard. That's the most simple thing striking me for now at least
Given the idea with the dynamic cursor you could also just tap the button when the cursor is on the desired starting point and then move the cursor to any potential endpoint and tapping the button again when it is on the right spot (or rightclick for instant finish?).

Thinking about the idea of the cursor some more I figured that with such an approach, a dedicated "Select" button would not be necessary because the normal click already selects. As there is no need to place anything down and stuff.
I also ended up putting a toggle for big notes opposed to my initial thoughts as I had completely forgotten that drumrolls can be big too (lol).
Following up on the density chart think, I put that above the bottom timeline in a 1:1 ration so there'd be some space left on the sides for i don't know what on top of 2 empty buttons in the top row.
My handwriting is probably bad to read but I didn't really have much time again but wanted to finish the sketch somehow. I think you get the idea if you saw the first one and read through my comments:
sketch v2
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