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This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 11:56:10 PM

Artist: Thaehan
Title: Saiyajin
Source: osu!
Tags: Power Up Dragon ball db dbz ドラゴンボール remix Featured Artist electronic
BPM: 180
Filesize: 2937kb
Play Time: 01:25
Difficulties Available:

Download: Thaehan - Saiyajin
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
28th Beatmap
1st Ranked

Image - Hobbes2 - Thank you!!!
Image - DeRandom Otaku – Thank you!!! I am so grateful to both of you!
Last edited by pinataman on , edited 39 times in total.
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Earned 2 kudosu.
From sm8 que


Your concerns :

Moderate -- Some parts might feel cramped/ugly/rhythm dense. Let me know if I need to remap these, I pointed out that one pattern in the first kiai which was the only point that really stood out considering the difficulty it was aiming for. Otherwise it looks just fine for a normal imo
Advanced -- Spread issue from Moderate maybe, am willing to nerf some of those jumps or 1/4. Give me your feedback on this isse Rhythm wise it's alright, though I don't think it needs spacing emphasis/jumps at all so using fixed DS would work on this level of difficulty just fine for example. Though small jumps aren't too bad but the big ones ( 00:21:079 (5,1) - ) are kinda hurting the spread since moderate does not have any kind of emphasis through spacing
Intense -- How did the doubles feel? They felt good and fitting
Saiyan -- Seemed good. Maybe some pacing issues or some jumps can be buffed. The golden ratio isn't really a theme, it's more of a subtheme, and right now it's not that different from normal back and forth, but the last pattern of Intense gave me some inspiration and I might make a map where the golden ratio is actually the theme of a map, but I wouldn't know what song/rhythms would support that. Sorry i'm not really sure what you mean by this ^^; I gave some feedback about spacing in the initial modding if that helps though if that doesn't answer your question/concerns we can talk about this IRC if you want to




Beginner

The diff stats feel kinda low for the way it's mapped :s, maybe like raising OD and HP to 2.5-3 would ease the spread in diff stats

00:34:079 (1) - Personal preference but i feel like a zigzag slider such as -> https://puu.sh/xBSgx/360fef4ef5.png would fit the sound better. If you don't want to modify it, you could atleast rotate it so the movement would not clip since new players move through them pretty much exactly as they are

00:48:746 (2,3) - 00:52:746 (6,1,2) - Aesthetically speaking, it would look better if this kind of sliderborder overlapping would not happen since you aren't really actively doing that kind of... patterning


Moderate

00:10:746 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I feel like it would be better to use the 1/2 reverse sliders for the two first beat patterns and the hitcircle patterns for the second beat patterns as they have drums accompanied with the synthesizer sounds instead of having them only on 1/1s like on the two first beat patterns

I would suggest the same thing i mentioned above on all similar cases but do it with common sense since here 00:23:413 (4) - for example the slider fits to the weird sound in the background

Would've liked to see some kind of a representation of this 00:34:079 - sound like in easy

00:44:079 (1) - Since this is a normal difficulty (or something along those lines) i don't think it's a good idea to introduce 1/4 repeat sliders. Yes they will hit the sliders just fine but they most likely get confused and just flail for the duration of it

00:45:413 - I feel like the rhythm gets bit too complicated in the first kiai when compared to beginner how much more intense it is and how similar it is when compared to advanced. Most of the issues comes from these 00:48:079 (1,2,3,4,1) - patterns if we look them that way, so i'd suggest rhythm like this https://puu.sh/xBTgA/81fc85cb39.png to create a sorta middleground between beginner and advanced


Advanced

Structurally, it would look better if 00:05:413 (1,1,1) - this kind of invisible overlapping would not happen that much =P

00:12:079 (1,2,3) - Maybe move this pattern so the 1 would stack with the other 1s for the sake of consistency?

00:30:746 (1,4) - I feel like these look a bit awkward since they are sorta trying to create a stack pattern but the stacking is more like the way the first objects of a stacked triple is with the last object of that same triple 00:29:746 (2,3,4) - (easy example). It would look better if you would try to create just a normal stack instead of something like that so the 00:30:746 (1) - would be placed somewhat where 00:29:829 (3) - is

00:31:746 (6) - The sound under the slidertail should be a clickable as it has more power than the one under sliderhead (plus nearly all the other big white ticks are mapped as clickables)

00:33:413 (1,2,3,4) - I don't feel like the 4 needs that much emphasis, maybe try to sorta stack it under the 2 like you have done here 00:28:079 (1,2,3,4) -

00:34:079 - Am still disappoint this no mapd

01:01:246 (1) - It kinda feels weird that this slider does not really follow the synthesizer like the other sliders are in the same pattern. I think it would be better to have the triplet there instead of here 01:02:579 (1,2,3) - as there the synthesizer sounds follow the similar pattern with these 01:01:579 (2,3,4) - and the actual change happens actually right after the triple.

Additionally if you want to improve the readability and playability of the slider pattern you could try something like this https://puu.sh/xBTVP/e777be78b9.png as the sliders would form comfortable and easy to understand -movement for the player to move to the next object


Intense

00:02:079 (5,6,7,8,1) - Imo this https://puu.sh/xBU8l/c436862021.png kind of movement would make the sliders play much nicely overall and it'd represent the song better by increasing the movement for the pattern over time and making it this kind of zigzag/back and forth circular, depending on who is playing which would fit the ascending synthesizer sound

00:16:746 (4,5,6) - You should make the 6 so it would sorta follow the flow formed by the two hitcircles as that is the usual way you have represented that kind of melody

00:17:413 (1,2,3) - I feel like the triple should start from the red tick since 00:17:496 - doesn't actually have any kind of distinct tone change or sound while 00:17:663 - has

00:48:079 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Overall i feel like you have a lot more overlapping and patterning that generally makes readability bit harder so you could NC the object on the second small white tick of the measure 00:48:746 (6) - (bonus: that would represent the fact that the melody repeats itself)

00:50:079 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - and 00:54:746 (1,2,1,2) - I don't think the combo has to be divided at all :d it's a single stream/pattern so single combo should do it

00:57:079 (4,5,6,7) - Since the 4 and 6 are nearly similar sounds it'd been nice to see this 01:10:079 (3,4,5,6) - kind of a pattern where they would be stacked and yeah you get what i mean

01:11:746 (5,2,1) - Would just be better to have the 2 stacked with the other objects, it shouldn't even hurt the readability


Saiyan

00:02:079 (5,6,7,8) - Since the synthesizer sounds are ascending you could create a pattern around that. For example https://puu.sh/xBULa/97ddf35735.png which would fit the difficulty of this.. difficulty much better and the song for the reasons stated in intense

00:05:746 (3,4,5,6) - I think the way you are representing the specific sounds through spacing here could be improved since the 5 is actually higher pitched than the 4 and 5|6 transition does not represent the change in the tone properly as this 00:05:413 (1,2) - is what a lower pitched descending change looks like so it should by all means be a bit more spaced than that. An easy solution would be to stack the 5 with the 3 and the 6 with 00:05:579 (2) - to create realistic spacing. I bet there might be few other patterns with similar style so think about the tone changes and try to create movement and spacing that is intuitive to what the song offers

00:32:746 (6,2) - Would look structurally nicer if the 2 would not overlap with the 6, additionally it could create bit more spacing for the strong synthesizer the 2 is mapped on. For example https://puu.sh/xBVA7/40801f672d.png

00:48:079 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Similar suggestion to NCing as in intense

00:55:079 (1) - Remove NC? The pattern doesn't really change so i don't feel like it represents anything special

01:06:746 (1,6,8,6) - 01:17:413 (1,4,8) - 01:19:913 (9,3) - 01:22:913 (2,1,1,1) - You could think about the overall structure in these patterns a bit more :s




Great map overall. Feels really nice to play

If/when i get into the BNg, just poke me for an icon. Otherwise, good luck~
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DTM9 Nowa wrote:
From sm8 que


Your concerns :

Moderate -- Some parts might feel cramped/ugly/rhythm dense. Let me know if I need to remap these, I pointed out that one pattern in the first kiai which was the only point that really stood out considering the difficulty it was aiming for. Otherwise it looks just fine for a normal imoyeah that's the kind of pattern I was worried about, you had a good suggestion for it
Advanced -- Spread issue from Moderate maybe, am willing to nerf some of those jumps or 1/4. Give me your feedback on this isse Rhythm wise it's alright, though I don't think it needs spacing emphasis/jumps at all so using fixed DS would work on this level of difficulty just fine for example. Though small jumps aren't too bad but the big ones ( 00:21:079 (5,1) - ) are kinda hurting the spread since moderate does not have any kind of emphasis through spacingI was hoping to make that kind of jump a small jump, but the way the aesthetics worked I felt forced into making it big. But this is the suspicion I had and will try to see what I can do about it after a little more feedback.
Intense -- How did the doubles feel? They felt good and fitting -- nice
Saiyan -- Seemed good. Maybe some pacing issues or some jumps can be buffed. The golden ratio isn't really a theme, it's more of a subtheme, and right now it's not that different from normal back and forth, but the last pattern of Intense gave me some inspiration and I might make a map where the golden ratio is actually the theme of a map, but I wouldn't know what song/rhythms would support that. Sorry i'm not really sure what you mean by this ^^; I gave some feedback about spacing in the initial modding if that helps though if that doesn't answer your question/concerns we can talk about this IRC if you want toThis was me just rambling




Beginner

The diff stats feel kinda low for the way it's mapped :s, maybe like raising OD and HP to 2.5-3 would ease the spread in diff stats – I'm not good at diff stats, so I'll go with your advice.

00:34:079 (1) - Personal preference but i feel like a zigzag slider such as -> https://puu.sh/xBSgx/360fef4ef5.png would fit the sound better. If you don't want to modify it, you could atleast rotate it so the movement would not clip since new players move through them pretty much exactly as they are – ooo, nice

00:48:746 (2,3) - 00:52:746 (6,1,2) - Aesthetically speaking, it would look better if this kind of sliderborder overlapping would not happen since you aren't really actively doing that kind of... patterning – I see this kind of technique being used commonly in ranked maps: http://puu.sh/xCb1N/0b6ae7a895.jpg . I feel like this just another use of that, and I tried to use it only during the chorus to make that section distinct.


Moderate

00:10:746 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I feel like it would be better to use the 1/2 reverse sliders for the two first beat patterns and the hitcircle patterns for the second beat patterns as they have drums accompanied with the synthesizer sounds instead of having them only on 1/1s like on the two first beat patterns

I would suggest the same thing i mentioned above on all similar cases but do it with common sense since here 00:23:413 (4) - for example the slider fits to the weird sound in the background – My goal by spreading the ½'s out was to avoid a very note dense section. So many ½ notes in a row seems like it could be too much for this audience. I do agree however that your rhythm better fits the music, plus I do that at 01:01:413 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - , so I'll probably change this, but I'd like some more feedback before changing it.

Would've liked to see some kind of a representation of this 00:34:079 - sound like in easy – Was afraid since the melody was on a ¼ note, but yeah you're right.

00:44:079 (1) - Since this is a normal difficulty (or something along those lines) i don't think it's a good idea to introduce 1/4 repeat sliders. Yes they will hit the sliders just fine but they most likely get confused and just flail for the duration of it – I'm gonna wait for more opinions about this. I thought that since spread could be an issue into the Advanced, introducing the player to ¼ notes in a way that has very small punishment (since as you mention the slider isn't that hard to hit) would be a way to bridge the spread.

00:45:413 - I feel like the rhythm gets bit too complicated in the first kiai when compared to beginner how much more intense it is and how similar it is when compared to advanced. Most of the issues comes from these 00:48:079 (1,2,3,4,1) - patterns if we look them that way, so i'd suggest rhythm like this https://puu.sh/xBTgA/81fc85cb39.png to create a sorta middleground between beginner and advanced – good idea


Advanced

Structurally, it would look better if 00:05:413 (1,1,1) - this kind of invisible overlapping would not happen that much =P – I agree, but I suck too much at mapping to fix this without completely changing the flow, and I don't think I should sacrifice this flow pattern because of an overall minor aesthetic issue. If the overlap wasn't so “invisible” I would move it though, or if you have a good idea that keeps the spirit of the pattern, I'd be happy to hear it.

00:12:079 (1,2,3) - Maybe move this pattern so the 1 would stack with the other 1s for the sake of consistency? – My stack philosophy for this map is that anything that is 2 beats away should be stacked +4x, +4y (like at 00:03:079 (2,5) - ). I find that some players dislike perfect stacking because it is too hard to see/read, and that is a bigger issue than the aesthetic issue.

00:30:746 (1,4) - I feel like these look a bit awkward since they are sorta trying to create a stack pattern but the stacking is more like the way the first objects of a stacked triple is with the last object of that same triple 00:29:746 (2,3,4) - (easy example). It would look better if you would try to create just a normal stack instead of something like that so the 00:30:746 (1) - would be placed somewhat where 00:29:829 (3) - is – This was me being inconsistent, switched to the stack described as above.

00:31:746 (6) - The sound under the slidertail should be a clickable as it has more power than the one under sliderhead (plus nearly all the other big white ticks are mapped as clickables) – I disagree on this. It is important to find moments of rest for pacing. This seemed like a great place to slow down the map because of the held vocal on (6) and the note at 00:26:913 (1) – is stronger in the melody than the note on (6)'s tail, so going from no click to click emphasized it in a way I liked.

00:33:413 (1,2,3,4) - I don't feel like the 4 needs that much emphasis, maybe try to sorta stack it under the 2 like you have done here 00:28:079 (1,2,3,4) I like the emphasis on (4) since it's the final note of the music here, but I slightly nerfed the spacing into (4).

00:34:079 - Am still disappoint this no mapd – I want to do something to make you happy, but I feel trapped by the ¼ note at 00:33:996 - . I feel like I have to acknowledge this note, but if I do, it doesn't seem like there's any nice way to have some kind of slider where you're asking. I'll try some things out and maybe ask for a test on them, but I'm not sure I'll find a good fix.

01:01:246 (1) - It kinda feels weird that this slider does not really follow the synthesizer like the other sliders are in the same pattern. I think it would be better to have the triplet there instead of here 01:02:579 (1,2,3) - as there the synthesizer sounds follow the similar pattern with these 01:01:579 (2,3,4) - and the actual change happens actually right after the triple. – I agree with your point, but I also like making the last set a triple as well, so now they are both triples.

Additionally if you want to improve the readability and playability of the slider pattern you could try something like this https://puu.sh/xBTVP/e777be78b9.png as the sliders would form comfortable and easy to understand -movement for the player to move to the next object – I liked the anti-flow, but yeah this diff probably doesn't need it, but I didn't go quite as horizontal as you did.


Intense

00:02:079 (5,6,7,8,1) - Imo this https://puu.sh/xBU8l/c436862021.png kind of movement would make the sliders play much nicely overall and it'd represent the song better by increasing the movement for the pattern over time and making it this kind of zigzag/back and forth circular, depending on who is playing which would fit the ascending synthesizer sound – To me, the melody is the strong part and the drums act as a moment of rest. For this reason, doing the kind of spacing you suggested feels a bit too intense, and so if I'm keeping the spacing this small, any kind of growth wouldn't really feel pronounced enough. I think I'll pass on doing that here.

00:16:746 (4,5,6) - You should make the 6 so it would sorta follow the flow formed by the two hitcircles as that is the usual way you have represented that kind of melody – (3) and (6) are different in the music because the synth goes down in pitch on (3)'s tail where as (6)'s tail goes up in pitch, so having a little variety seems okay to me.

00:17:413 (1,2,3) - I feel like the triple should start from the red tick since 00:17:496 - doesn't actually have any kind of distinct tone change or sound while 00:17:663 – has – After listening to the music again, I realized I heard it a bit differently than what is actually there. However, I feel like this rhythm has the best gameplay because a triple is distinguishing and allows a jump between (3,4), and it does kind of make sense a little. If this is a reoccurring problem during mods (which I expect it will be), I'll begrudgingly change it.

00:48:079 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Overall i feel like you have a lot more overlapping and patterning that generally makes readability bit harder so you could NC the object on the second small white tick of the measure 00:48:746 (6) - (bonus: that would represent the fact that the melody repeats itself) - good idea

00:50:079 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - and 00:54:746 (1,2,1,2) - I don't think the combo has to be divided at all :d it's a single stream/pattern so single combo should do it – agreed

00:57:079 (4,5,6,7) - Since the 4 and 6 are nearly similar sounds it'd been nice to see this 01:10:079 (3,4,5,6) - kind of a pattern where they would be stacked and yeah you get what i mean – This is pretty subjective issue, but I think what I have is similar to what you're suggesting. Think about it in terms of two notes. 00:57:079 (4,5) – is a repeat of 00:57:413 (6,7) - . So this same angle is where the similar sounds is expressed, which I think better represents the similarity than different angle but same position.

01:11:746 (5,2,1) - Would just be better to have the 2 stacked with the other objects, it shouldn't even hurt the readability – you underestimate how bad I am at stacked patterns. I've gotten seriously tripped up by stacks that are 3/2 beat apart, so I really prefer giving the player more knowledge about where to go. That's a more important issue to me than the aesthetics here.


Saiyan

00:02:079 (5,6,7,8) - Since the synthesizer sounds are ascending you could create a pattern around that. For example https://puu.sh/xBULa/97ddf35735.png which would fit the difficulty of this.. difficulty much better and the song for the reasons stated in intense – I really like this idea of a rising intensity throughout these 1/4 sliders. After a lot of experimentation, I couldn't find a great pattern to work with it, so I basically used the same circular motion that I had but with rising DS.

00:05:746 (3,4,5,6) - I think the way you are representing the specific sounds through spacing here could be improved since the 5 is actually higher pitched than the 4 and 5|6 transition does not represent the change in the tone properly as this 00:05:413 (1,2) - is what a lower pitched descending change looks like so it should by all means be a bit more spaced than that. An easy solution would be to stack the 5 with the 3 and the 6 with 00:05:579 (2) - to create realistic spacing. I bet there might be few other patterns with similar style so think about the tone changes and try to create movement and spacing that is intuitive to what the song offers – I understand your perspective and think that this spacing philosophy would create a fun pattern, and it's actually a type of spacing I've used in a lot of maps I made. However, this is not the intended spacing philosophy I want to use here. The extra of this map is a very interesting map that I really enjoyed, and it uses lots of contrasting large and small spacing like at 01:32:625 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6) - . This is one of the inspirations behind the small spacing I'm using here. The way I'm grouping the patterns in my map is to look at these four notes 00:05:413 (1,2,3,4) - as a group ascending in intensity compared to the next four notes also ascending in intensity. The big motivation behind this small (4,5) spacing is to control the pacing (cool video that I love sharing even if you already know most of this stuff). I need this spacing to be small in order for the final ascension of 00:05:746 (3,4) – and 00:06:413 (7,8) – to be the big standouts to convey that growth in intensity. By taking a moment of rest at (4,5), the pattern is able to reset and grow again to a point that I'd like.

00:32:746 (6,2) - Would look structurally nicer if the 2 would not overlap with the 6, additionally it could create bit more spacing for the strong synthesizer the 2 is mapped on. For example https://puu.sh/xBVA7/40801f672d.pngmuch better structure this way. Also this change really keeps the spirit of what I was trying to do, so it's much easier to accept a change like this. I realize I should change the other instances of this, but it's so much harder to do because it means the pattern won't work.

00:48:079 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Similar suggestion to NCing as in intense – yes

00:55:079 (1) - Remove NC? The pattern doesn't really change so i don't feel like it represents anything special – I think I'll keep this one because of what I do at 00:50:413 (1) - .

01:06:746 (1,6,8,6) - 01:17:413 (1,4,8) - 01:19:913 (9,3) - 01:22:913 (2,1,1,1) - You could think about the overall structure in these patterns a bit more :s

1st one and 2nd one are using the golden ratio theme, and though I can understand how that overlap doesn't look appealing, I think it works. Let me explain a bit more though. See how 01:07:413 (5,7,8) – forms a line? Does that kind of line look familiar? Take another look at 00:05:746 (3,4,5) – and 00:16:913 (6,7,8) – and 00:28:079 (1,2,3) - . See how they all kind of look the same? They all are in a ratio to each other of 1.618 (which is that golden ratio subtheme I was talking about). Well, 01:06:746 (1,5,6) – also obeys the golden ratio. Is it right to use that mechanic here? Probably not because of the overlap, but it's hard for me to use the DS's and flows that I want, so it's easier to talk about random garbage like this than actually be creative and fix it. I expect to hear an issue like this in future mods though so I will probably end up changing this.
2nd one is worse than the first, so I'll think about that one more later.

3rd one I stacked because it's 2 full beats away
4th one I didn't stack cuz I don't like 3/2 stacks.




Great map overall. Feels really nice to play – I appreciate the praise, that's really nice to hear.

If/when i get into the BNg, just poke me for an icon. Otherwise, good luck~ – thanks so much for the mod, very helpful. I feel honored to have such an offer.
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Hello~
Mod requested in my queue.


Moderate
  • 00:23:413 (4) - You shouldn't use this shape right here I think. You have used shapes like this to emphasise kind of downbeats alternately with 3x1/2 circles. It doesn't fit here just because sound at this moment is much different and it needs different emphasization. I think something like slider + circle with 1/2 interval would works better here.
  • 00:48:746 (3,4) - It looks like you wanted to stack these objects so why don't do this?


Advanced
  • 00:00:080 (1,2,3,4) - The way how it flows is kinda weird and uncomfortable to play because 00:00:579 (4) - this slider doesn't continue transition made by previous triangle. Honestly I think you need to stack 00:00:579 (4) - this slider with first cirle in triangle pattern instead of third one. That should works much better.


Intense

I think i will end here cuz i don't have time ;w;
That's my light check, overall I think map is nice, gl!
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Venix wrote:
Hello~
Mod requested in my queue.


Moderate
  • 00:23:413 (4) - You shouldn't use this shape right here I think. You have used shapes like this to emphasise kind of downbeats alternately with 3x1/2 circles. It doesn't fit here just because sound at this moment is much different and it needs different emphasization. I think something like slider + circle with 1/2 interval would works better here. -- I agree with this concern. I feel a bit limited in options to address it. Your suggested rhythm sounds kind of intense for a restful moment of the song. Nowa made a good suggestion above that could address your issue, so I'll put more weight on his suggestion and continue to get feedback on this issue.
  • 00:48:746 (3,4) - It looks like you wanted to stack these objects so why don't do this? -- stacking circles on sliders is fine, but I prefer not to stack circles on circles like I did at 00:27:746 (3,1,2,3) -


Advanced
  • 00:00:080 (1,2,3,4) - The way how it flows is kinda weird and uncomfortable to play because 00:00:579 (4) - this slider doesn't continue transition made by previous triangle. Honestly I think you need to stack 00:00:579 (4) - this slider with first cirle in triangle pattern instead of third one. That should works much better. -- I agree with your concern and might eventually do your suggestion. However, I like the fact that there is a jump into (4) to set a good precedence for some of the spacing in the map, so I rotated the triangle to be a smaller DS and more forgiving angle. I will continue to monitor this pattern as I move forward.


Intense
  • 00:06:746 (1,2,3) - 00:17:413 (1,2,3) - These triples are slightly overmapped, what plays a bit weird. I prefer change these triples to 2 x circle with 1/2 interval. -- yes, and nowa mentioned this as well. One reason I like the current rhythm, though, is what yous said about 00:23:413 (4) - in the Moderate. This part of the music different, so I want to differentiate it somehow, and since the synthesizer sounds glitchy/fast, I honestly thought this was 1/4 rhythm all the way through. I'll try to think about how exactly I want to change this.

I think i will end here cuz i don't have time ;w;
That's my light check, overall I think map is nice, gl! -- Thanks so much for your input!
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Hello mod from my queue~
General
  • You are right about the timing thingy being little off with 80, personally would use something like 70 too.

    noticeBeginner

Moderate
  • 00:10:746 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - speaking of this rhythm, I think it's pretty nice idea. It's catching the rhythms that feel important to this level of difficulty without trying to mash the denser bits into it, but still managing to build up some of that intensity in the music.
  • 00:33:746 (3,1) - maybe begin the long slider from the current tail of 00:33:746 (3) - since that's where the emphasised sound is and also the longer sound begins (although it's fairly quiet before it kicks in more)
  • 00:58:746 (3,4,1,2,3) - these should be in the same combo, so either have 00:57:746 (1,2) - as a short combo or remove the NC from it and attach it to the one before it

  • Advanced
    • 00:03:079 (2,5) - stack?
    • 00:05:913 (2,4) - could stack this as well unless it's intentionally like this to make it clearer for the player
    • 00:14:579 (5,2,3,4) - arrange the stack so that 00:14:579 (5,2) - stack instead of 00:14:579 (5,4) - (the automatic triple stack fucks it up but you can manually tune it)
    • 00:21:579 (2,2) - if these are intentional then okay
    • 00:23:413 (1,2,3,4) - same thing as with 00:14:579 (5,2,3,4). And same with 01:15:913 (5,2,3,4) -
    • tbh don't really like those overlaps, imo it would be better wihtout them but if you want them I guess that's fine too.
    • I don't really think the spread issue is that problematic atm (but what do I know) but I do think though that the jump in things kinda felt weird from Moderate to Advanced. Like, while it's a lot more dense than Advanced, the transition from Advanced to Intense doesn't feature new aspects in a way the one before does, like, in Advanced the 1/2 get spaced out, 1/4 gets introduced and you even spiced it up with overlapping jumps (if you can call them that lol). But I guess in the end looking at the pure difficulty increase it seems fair enough as is. The aforementioned "new things" in Advanced didn't feel bad in the diff itself anyways.

    Intense
    • 00:28:579 (4,5) - If you mean stuff like this with your concern bout doubles, no worries. Due how they are followed by sliders, it's a lot more forgiving than just circles. So as result, they aren't that hard to play or uncomfortable to tap, but feel somewhat rewarding and fitting instead
    • 01:11:246 (2,3,4) - fix triple?
    • The ending then, I don't think it's too hard, it's almost the same as multiple patterns before it, just little harder with the tapping-wise more intense one in the end 01:24:746 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
    • Dunno what 00:06:746 (1,2,3) is referencing to since at 00:06:746 (1) - there's only this one slider, not combo of 3 (or more). This idea by itself is fine I guess, the way it's NCd alone feels kinda weird but it's repeated so I guess it could be fair enough as is. (I'd still put it to the same combo with the following 00:07:079 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - )

    Saiyan
    • 01:01:246 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - NC the downbeats instead? So NCs at 01:01:413 (3,3,3,3,3) - instead)
    • 01:03:246 (1,1) - I think you could stack these tbh, not only would it look neater it'd also further emphasize the effect it's having
    • 01:11:246 (2,3,4) - there might be more like this (both before and after I guess) but this doesn't really look good; if you want to curve the triple, do it along the lines of the slider (as in how the slider body would continue) Atm 01:11:246 (2,3) - are way too right so that it'd make bump in the slider if it'd continue along them
    • Speaking of those mapset things, currently this top diff feels more like just increased spacing version of Intense (mildly exaggerating maybe), the patterns are mostly pretty much the same. Good place to do some differentiation on would be these 01:22:746 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - which could be done with circles only in the top diff tbh (or if that feels over the top, maybe progressively use more and more circles during these towards the end of the map or smth)

    Good luck!
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    Rhythm Incarnate
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    TheKingHenry wrote:
    Hello mod from my queue~
    General
    • You are right about the timing thingy being little off with 80, personally would use something like 70 too. -- thanks for the input, i'll wait for some more opinions

      noticeBeginner

    Moderate
  • 00:10:746 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - speaking of this rhythm, I think it's pretty nice idea. It's catching the rhythms that feel important to this level of difficulty without trying to mash the denser bits into it, but still managing to build up some of that intensity in the music. -- thanks for the feedback. Even if it's something that stays the same, this is useful to have
  • 00:33:746 (3,1) - maybe begin the long slider from the current tail of 00:33:746 (3) - since that's where the emphasised sound is and also the longer sound begins (although it's fairly quiet before it kicks in more) -- tested a stack, didn't feel great, but I liked the idea, so .40x spacing seemed to catch that feeling while maintaining a DS I'm happy with. Seems a bit of an odd DS, hope it works.
  • 00:58:746 (3,4,1,2,3) - these should be in the same combo, so either have 00:57:746 (1,2) - as a short combo or remove the NC from it and attach it to the one before it -- short combo

  • Advanced
    • 00:03:079 (2,5) - stack?
    • 00:05:913 (2,4) - could stack this as well unless it's intentionally like this to make it clearer for the player
    • 00:14:579 (5,2,3,4) - arrange the stack so that 00:14:579 (5,2) - stack instead of 00:14:579 (5,4) - (the automatic triple stack fucks it up but you can manually tune it)
    • 00:21:579 (2,2) - if these are intentional then okay
    • 00:23:413 (1,2,3,4) - same thing as with 00:14:579 (5,2,3,4). And same with 01:15:913 (5,2,3,4) -
    • tbh don't really like those overlaps, imo it would be better wihtout them but if you want them I guess that's fine too. -- all these stacks were intentional. It is more important to me that the player understand what the pattern is doing, and perfect stacks are terrible to me for this reason. If there are prettier ways to stack without hiding information from the player, let me know.
    • I don't really think the spread issue is that problematic atm (but what do I know) but I do think though that the jump in things kinda felt weird from Moderate to Advanced. Like, while it's a lot more dense than Advanced, the transition from Advanced to Intense doesn't feature new aspects in a way the one before does, like, in Advanced the 1/2 get spaced out, 1/4 gets introduced and you even spiced it up with overlapping jumps (if you can call them that lol). But I guess in the end looking at the pure difficulty increase it seems fair enough as is. The aforementioned "new things" in Advanced didn't feel bad in the diff itself anyways. -- I agree that there are more new things, but I feel that's the case for all my Normals into Hards. The jumps were harder in the last version, so it's good to hear that the jumps now aren't so bad.

    Intense
    • 00:28:579 (4,5) - If you mean stuff like this with your concern bout doubles, no worries. Due how they are followed by sliders, it's a lot more forgiving than just circles. So as result, they aren't that hard to play or uncomfortable to tap, but feel somewhat rewarding and fitting instead -- good to hear!
    • 01:11:246 (2,3,4) - fix triple? -- fixed
    • The ending then, I don't think it's too hard, it's almost the same as multiple patterns before it, just little harder with the tapping-wise more intense one in the end 01:24:746 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - -- alright, thanks
    • Dunno what 00:06:746 (1,2,3) is referencing to since at 00:06:746 (1) - there's only this one slider, not combo of 3 (or more). This idea by itself is fine I guess, the way it's NCd alone feels kinda weird but it's repeated so I guess it could be fair enough as is. (I'd still put it to the same combo with the following 00:07:079 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ) -- yeah, this used to be a triple which apparently is overmapped. I'm very uneasy about SV changes out of no where, so glad to hear this wasn't a disagreeable pattern.

    Saiyan
    • 01:01:246 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - NC the downbeats instead? So NCs at 01:01:413 (3,3,3,3,3) - instead) -- That's a good philosophy, but I like the look the way it is.
    • 01:03:246 (1,1) - I think you could stack these tbh, not only would it look neater it'd also further emphasize the effect it's having -- It seems like a good idea here, but perfect stacks aren't really my thing.
    • 01:11:246 (2,3,4) - there might be more like this (both before and after I guess) but this doesn't really look good; if you want to curve the triple, do it along the lines of the slider (as in how the slider body would continue) Atm 01:11:246 (2,3) - are way too right so that it'd make bump in the slider if it'd continue along them -- thanks for putting this down in words. It sounds so obvious now that I look at it, but this is a major step up in terms of aesthetics.
    • Speaking of those mapset things, currently this top diff feels more like just increased spacing version of Intense (mildly exaggerating maybe), the patterns are mostly pretty much the same. Good place to do some differentiation on would be these 01:22:746 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - which could be done with circles only in the top diff tbh (or if that feels over the top, maybe progressively use more and more circles during these towards the end of the map or smth) -- that seems like a reasonable complaint. I think I can change a pattern here or there, but ultimately they both are my mapping style, and both difficulties chose their rhythms and flows because of the way the music is. Additionally, I feel like this complaint only affects people who play both the Intense and Saiyan, and I feel like for this audience, the change in spacing will be a big enough difference to make the map play differently.

    Good luck! -- nice mod! thanks a bunch!
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    Rhythm Incarnate
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    saiyan
    00:00:579 (4,5) - reduce volume for those slider ends could be cool
    00:06:079 (5) - this sound should be spaced more than 00:05:913 (4) - thore the sake of intensity
    00:08:413 (2,3) - i would ctrl g this rhythm fits more the song
    00:13:913 - pls make this clickable
    00:16:746 (5) - same again why this is so low spaced
    00:32:579 (5) - i would space this more to avoid missread jump stream xd like i did lo
    00:50:413 (1,2,3,4) - this being 1/4 sliders could be cool to emphasis claps 00:50:413 (1,3) - here
    01:07:413 (5) - why such low spacing aaaa
    good diff but why suddently u have jumps with like random spacing, big spacing for less intense beat and small spacing for more instense beat, makes no sense to me...

    intense
    00:08:413 (2,3) - ctrl g like top diff
    00:19:079 (2,3) - ^
    01:23:080 (3,4,5) - savage overlap here compared to 01:23:746 (3,4,5,3,4,5) -
    nice one here

    advanced
    00:03:079 (2,5) - stack?
    00:03:413 (3,1) - can you blanket for structure here looks better lo
    01:16:079 (1,5) - fix stack
    good

    also idk why do i have those errors lol
    Image

    rest diffs are fine, nothing major to say..

    you could get that set easily ranked if you fix spacing and rhythm issues tbh
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    Rhythm Incarnate
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    Sotarks wrote:

    saiyan
    00:00:579 (4,5) - reduce volume for those slider ends could be cool – good idea
    00:06:079 (5) - this sound should be spaced more than 00:05:913 (4) - thore the sake of intensity – see below
    00:08:413 (2,3) - i would ctrl g this rhythm fits more the song – I'd really like to have 00:08:746 (3) – be clickable since there is a strong melody note in the song there. I tried making it all circles and it felt too intense; the slider did a nice job of keeping it calm. Looks like we prioritize different tracks of the song here.
    00:13:913 - pls make this clickable – I liked sliders to provide more moments of rest. It feels like better pacing that way.
    00:16:746 (5) - same again why this is so low spaced – see below
    00:32:579 (5) - i would space this more to avoid missread jump stream xd like i did lo – I did a little bit, but maybe that's more of a problem with jump streams.
    00:50:413 (1,2,3,4) - this being 1/4 sliders could be cool to emphasis claps 00:50:413 (1,3) – here – good idea
    01:07:413 (5) - why such low spacing aaaa – I'm aware of the philosophy towards spacing your applying to this suggestion. It makes nice patterns, and it'd make a nice pattern here. But let me explain the lens through which I look at the music. So the music sounds a bit like this http://puu.sh/xMhR2/3e51f11928.png. The way I hear this part of the music is in groups. I hear the (1,2,3,4) as it's own group and then the (5,6,7,8) group as another different group. The (1,2,3,4) group is rising in intensity as it gets higher in pitch. The (5,6,7,8) group also is rising in intensity. So when I arrange these objects I want (1,2,3,4) to be rising in spacing to reflect that rise in intensity like http://puu.sh/xMhXh/af521d2bcc.png . Okay, so how do we bridge these two groups together? If I were to make (4,5) bigger than (3,4), it would have a very large spacing. That then means I would have to make the (5,6,7,8) group really really big spacing to keep the intense feeling going. Okay, now (7,8) is a gigantic jump. Do I make an even bigger jump into the NC? That's getting out of hand. I need a moment of rest to help me reset my pacing. So try replaying the map while looking at these objects not as individual notes but as groups of notes.
    good diff but why suddently u have jumps with like random spacing, big spacing for less intense beat and small spacing for more instense beat, makes no sense to me... – Though you will still disagree, I hope you can appreciate the experience I'm trying to create.

    intense
    00:08:413 (2,3) - ctrl g like top diff – I'd really like to have 00:08:746 (3) – be clickable since there is a strong melody note in the song there.
    00:19:079 (2,3) - ^ – ^
    01:23:080 (3,4,5) - savage overlap here compared to 01:23:746 (3,4,5,3,4,5) - – hmmm good point. Was hard to get no overlap at all, so I changed the way the stack works and now the overlap isn't so savage. I think this will work, but I'll keep an eye on this pattern
    nice one here – thanks

    advanced
    00:03:079 (2,5) – stack? – how would the player see the note then? That seems like a bigger issue to me
    00:03:413 (3,1) - can you blanket for structure here looks better lo – good idea
    01:16:079 (1,5) - fix stack – fixed
    good

    also idk why do i have those errors lol – yeah that's strange, I don't have them.
    Image

    rest diffs are fine, nothing major to say..

    you could get that set easily ranked if you fix spacing and rhythm issues tbh – Good to know my aesthetics have improved then.
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    Rhythm Incarnate
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    m4m

    Beginner
    • CS2.5 is better
      I think it is very beautiful :)

    Moderate

    Advanced
    • Moderate and SD difference are 1.3
      I think this difference is dangerous and it is better to lower Advanced SD

    I think that other diff does not have a problem

    Good luck!
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    Rhythm Incarnate
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    q

    intense

    super saiyan

    gl!
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    Rhythm Incarnate
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    Yasaija 714 wrote:
    m4m

    Beginner
    • CS2.5 is better – I disagree
      I think it is very beautiful :)thanks!

    Moderate
    • 00:02:746 (1,2) - 1/1 slider is better – I agree
    • 00:07:579 - 00:18:246 - Why are not you picking up the sound here? – I wanted this to be restful, but it's a bit too restful, so yeah made ½ slider here
      00:07:413 (3) - It might be a good idea to make this a 1/2 slider
    • 00:10:746 (1,2,3,4) - 00:21:413 (1,2,3,4) - It is better to only press Ctrl+G for rhythm – A lot of modders have an issue with this rhythm and had a few different fixes for it. I'm not sure what to do about this, so I'm going to wait for some feedback, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna change this somehow.
      For difficulty this is the difficulty level for beginners to play. Beginners can not cope with suddenly 1/2 rhythm.
      I think that it is necessary to teach the rhythm with a slider first. – There are sliders earlier in the diff that help this, but I'm more concerned about transitioning to the next difficulty if I don't use any ½ rhythms, so I actually think this makes the spread better.
    • 00:34:079 (1) - Why are you keeping this distance so close? – King Henry said to stack, I liked the idea, but I realize I need to do one or the other. I'll keep it normal like you said.
    • 00:44:079 (1) - I think it is dangerous to use ¼ – thank you for the feedback. I will continue to monitor this as mods come in
    • 01:01:413 (1,2,3) - How about folding slider? – I'll keep it as is

    Advanced
    • Moderate and SD difference are 1.3
      I think this difference is dangerous and it is better to lower Advanced SD – I'm aware of this, but you're current comment on this issue isn't helpful because I don't have your opinion on what the problems are and how to address them. What are the patterns in Moderate/Advanced that present problems to the spread?

    I think that other diff does not have a problem – :)

    Good luck! – thanks!


    Chibi Maruko wrote:
    q

    intense
    • 00:04:746 (4) - ctrl + j – it doesn't matter either way
    • 00:34:579 - stop sliderend at blue tick – yup
    • 01:23:746 (2,3,4) - this doesn't look stack. stack them – how would the player be able to see the circle? This seems like a bigger issue to me.

    super saiyan
    • 00:02:079 (5,6) - why you overlap this instead space it – is there a problem with that? Currently the spacing increases along this combo which I thought was nice (idea came from Nowa).
    • 00:06:079 (5,6) - The space between this were too short. increasing it – I disagree, but I'm exploring ways to make my intent more obvious.
    • 00:06:746 (1) - the slider is unrankable xd. try to not making random slider or change it to blanket slider, sliderwave or idk. same situation like 00:17:413 (1) - 01:08:079 (1) - 01:18:746 (1) - – It is rankable, but I'm on your side when it comes to SV issues like this. Reduced the SV to mostly match the normal SV, will get more opinions on this.
    • 00:07:746 (5,6) - increasing space it bcs you put the sound twice here. same like 00:18:413 (5,6) - – I was hoping to hear feedback on this. I'm gonna wait for more opinions, but if I change this, it will be the hitsounds that go because the spacing goes nicely with the melody.
    • 00:25:746 (2,3,4) - 2hard4players2fcthis bcs this part lel. decreasing them – I see where you're coming from, but I'm not entirely convinced. I'll keep an eye on this as I move forward and ask for more feedback
    • 00:26:913 (2,3,4) - ^
    • 00:31:079 (3,4,5) - ^
    • 00:32:246 (2,3,4) - ^
    • 00:50:079 (1,2,3,4) - something weird bout this. and yeah, the circle (4) kinda out of this. move a little bit left – I like it this way
    • 00:55:079 (1) - why nc here? is it making sense? – it goes with the NC after 00:50:079 (1,2,3,4) - .

    gl! -- thanks!
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    Combo Commander
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    Saiyan -- What's your opinion on spacings like 00:05:413 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - and 01:06:746 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - etc. Also, did you feel like the triples at 00:25:746 (2,3,4) -were too big?


    Saiyan
    The song feels 5ms too early, but that may just be me.

    Time for direct feedback by your request:
    00:05:413 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - This is actually one of the best parts of the map imo. the spacing was clearly different reflecting the song visually and in gameplay. I would ask you the question: "If someone were to play this section without music, would they 'see' the music?".

    01:06:746 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - This feels overdone though. Your idea was clearly represented, but it goes beyond what the song provides imo.

    00:25:746 (2,3,4) - Nope! This feels about right! Unless you were mapping for pp, this would be pretty good.

    Time for my general and personal advice:
    00:00:080 (1,2,3) - 00:01:579 (2,3,4) - Notice thje clearly distinct levels of intensity of each object. The map needs to clearly represent this. Space closer in, and 2 further away.

    00:08:746 (3,4,5,6) - Why is this a boring pattern, when a pattern on a similar section: 00:07:413 (3,4,5,6) is way better, and represents the song through variable spacing?
    00:07:413 (3,4,5,6) - This section however does still feel a bit too spaced. Keep in mind you need to have spacing about the same in similar levels of intensity.

    00:10:746 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is an example of what I am looking for. Patterns with clear links to the song, with visuals, rhythm, and perceived spacing.
    00:13:079 (3,4,5,6,1) - This however is distinctly different to the previous pattern, of having a whoosh sound behind it. I would maybe increase spacing, and make it a curved stream instead of a linear one.

    00:18:079 (3,4,5,6) - Again, you mustn't be sloppy with spacing. 6 is clearly an emphasized object, and it has been spaced pathetically.

    Im beginning to repeat ideas, but comb through the beginning section and you will see other contradiction.

    00:23:746 (3,4,1) - Imagine 3 and 4 as circles. Would the jumps here be anywhere as intense as the song treats them as? Remember, kick sliders are spaced like traditional jumps instead of like streams, so keep in mind the difference.

    00:24:246 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 00:29:579 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The stream doesn't feel complex enough to represent the song correctly. Maybe convert into kick sliders or use stream jumps or something, cus there are clearly emphasized notes in there surrounded by 1/4.

    00:38:413 (5) - Remember tails should be placed on sounds less intense than the head.

    You repeat most if the issues I mentioned above. I personally think you are kinda far from rank, but I believe you can reach it eventually!
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    Rhythm Incarnate
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    mindmaster107 wrote:
    Saiyan -- What's your opinion on spacings like 00:05:413 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - and 01:06:746 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - etc. Also, did you feel like the triples at 00:25:746 (2,3,4) -were too big?


    Saiyan
    The song feels 5ms too early, but that may just be me. – yeah, I said it was 10 ms early, so that kind of confirms some suspicions, will wait for more opinions before changing

    Time for direct feedback by your request:
    00:05:413 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - This is actually one of the best parts of the map imo. the spacing was clearly different reflecting the song visually and in gameplay. I would ask you the question: "If someone were to play this section without music, would they 'see' the music?". – thanks for the feedback. I could ramble a lot about this pattern and the feedback I've gotten from it, but I'll spend my time better and pass.

    01:06:746 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - This feels overdone though. Your idea was clearly represented, but it goes beyond what the song provides imo. – I am continuing to change this pattern and will try to incorporate this feedback in it.

    00:25:746 (2,3,4) - Nope! This feels about right! Unless you were mapping for pp, this would be pretty good. – Nice

    Time for my general and personal advice:
    00:00:080 (1,2,3) - 00:01:579 (2,3,4) - Notice thje clearly distinct levels of intensity of each object. The map needs to clearly represent this. Space closer in, and 2 further away. – This doesn't need to have different levels of spacing. Go play any of Frey's maps and you'll see design is heavily prioritized over consistently spacing pitch changes in the song. Even if Frey's philosophy is not something I generally agree with, this map is one my favorites. As for my pattern, I do like nerfing the first (2,3) distance, but the second pattern is fine.

    00:08:746 (3,4,5,6) - Why is this a boring pattern, when a pattern on a similar section: 00:07:413 (3,4,5,6) is way better, and represents the song through variable spacing? – Because I think it's a good way to represent the descending intensity here
    00:07:413 (3,4,5,6) - This section however does still feel a bit too spaced. Keep in mind you need to have spacing about the same in similar levels of intensity. – I think the pacing is good here

    00:10:746 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is an example of what I am looking for. Patterns with clear links to the song, with visuals, rhythm, and perceived spacing.
    00:13:079 (3,4,5,6,1) - This however is distinctly different to the previous pattern, of having a whoosh sound behind it. I would maybe increase spacing, and make it a curved stream instead of a linear one. – It's not distinct enough to me. After testing, I liked what I had more.

    00:18:079 (3,4,5,6) - Again, you mustn't be sloppy with spacing. 6 is clearly an emphasized object, and it has been spaced pathetically.
    – I disagree, 6 is not emphasized in the music and it's my intention to decrease the intensity here.

    Im beginning to repeat ideas, but comb through the beginning section and you will see other contradiction.

    00:23:746 (3,4,1) - Imagine 3 and 4 as circles. Would the jumps here be anywhere as intense as the song treats them as? Remember, kick sliders are spaced like traditional jumps instead of like streams, so keep in mind the difference. – Increased slightly, but I don't think these notes in the music are a big focus in the music to warrant hard jumps.

    00:24:246 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 00:29:579 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The stream doesn't feel complex enough to represent the song correctly. Maybe convert into kick sliders or use stream jumps or something, cus there are clearly emphasized notes in there surrounded by 1/4.
    – I will keep the notion of a more complex stream in the back of my head, but ultimately I think we have different attitude towards ¼ patterns. I'm not a player who enjoys ¼ jumps and try to avoid them when I can. After testing a lot of spacing changes, the current spacing change in the stream is the one I liked.

    00:38:413 (5) - Remember tails should be placed on sounds less intense than the head. – agreed, no change

    You repeat most if the issues I mentioned above. I personally think you are kinda far from rank, but I believe you can reach it eventually! – Thanks for the mod! I believe I can reach it eventually too.
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    Star Shooter
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    Hi form my queue c:


    Moderate
    • 01:07:745 (4) - it seems like object's end isn't properly snaped (AiMod)


    Advanced


    Intense


    Saiyan


    Afterword
    Wow. That was fun. Every diff looks nice and clean. Couldn't really find any major flaws. Good job!
    Take a star and make it ranked asap
    ☆☆☆
    This is a BSS beatmap submission. Click here to view full beatmap information.
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