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Panda Eyes & Teminite - Immortal Flame

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Topic Starter
_sponez
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on 28 февраля 2018 г. at 15:08:45

Artist: Panda Eyes & Teminite
Title: Immortal Flame
BPM: 110
Filesize: 9588kb
Play Time: 04:43
Difficulties Available:
  1. Inferno (6,51 stars, 865 notes)
Download: Panda Eyes & Teminite - Immortal Flame
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
Inferno - 100%
2unny
Modding difficulty: Normal

Really nice slider velocity altering at the start of the map

00:48:440 (1) - Maybe end this spinner at the previous beat, since it's really close to the slider in-front of it and players might not get the slider (Even though it's placed close to the spinner center) On the first try

Nicely mapped overall, keep up the good work!
Topic Starter
_sponez

2unny wrote:

Modding difficulty: Normal

Really nice slider velocity altering at the start of the map

00:48:440 (1) - Maybe end this spinner at the previous beat, since it's really close to the slider in-front of it and players might not get the slider (Even though it's placed close to the spinner center) On the first try Ok

Nicely mapped overall, keep up the good work!
Thanks a lot
Shii
Hey! Been so long since I've used ModdingV1 :o
I do apologise, cuz this is gonna be one huge post, mostly cuz i gotta break down most of what I say in case there's something you aren't familiar with :P
(ps: Don't just apply what i say to the existing map, I'd strongly suggest as painful as it can be to just remap from scratch, using what you learn from this as well as any practice maps you make to hopefully make something nicer. PM me or post on the queue again if you need more help in the near future, more than happy to go through things again :P)
Edit: don't take what I say at face value and let it kill your motivation. Chances are even if you took on board everything I said here you'd probably have more of this kinda post from other modders, mostly because I'm either a bad modder, or because it takes time and effort to get good at mapping. Don't let mappers spirit die :)

Inferno
00:04:395 - to 00:21:849 - .
If you look at all iterations of this song that are ranked (and fort's version), you should notice that this section is either not mapped to at all, or apparently severely undermapped. Can you think of why? The main reason this bit is so neglected is because it lacks in any sort of intensity, and has very little or no musical backing, save for some subtle "ting" sounds on downbeats (big white ticks). For this reason, most people make this section either overly simple or just non-existent.
As an alternative to mapping that section, you could opt to map the breaks before the first kiai, as they have more depth to them with kicks and a synth/guitar(?).
00:20:758 (4) - Don't like how the heavy kick on the downbeat is passively mapped because of prioritising the vocals, feels like the downbeat would be much nicer with some sort of emphasis. Also don't like the worlds smallest overlap with 00:19:667 (2,4) - , just small enough to bug me :v


00:39:304 - to 00:55:667 - has some questionable choices and stuff that I need to go over as less of a mod.
This might contradict what you know about mapping, but this entire section should be a lot less dense in terms of active rhythm. Yes, i hear the 1/4 piano or whatever in the background, but that does not necessarily mean you have to map effectively 110bpm streams. Whilst i don't suggest that you completely ignore this section like Sotarks did, or arguably undermap like in Mao's collab, I personally would suggest switching to using repeating 1/4 sliders like https://puu.sh/zuCdO.jpg or https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10332917as suggested patterns if you were to opt for this.

Likewise, as you've actively mapped the 1/4 right now, you end up missing out a lot of things you could be doing, as well as some of the 1/4 rhythm when you map 1/2 sliders. https://puu.sh/zuCow.jpg is a visual guide for this. Red dots are the percieved rhythm, cause by actively and passively mapping things, whilst the pink lines show the actual rhythm. Where the blue lines point toward show where the actual rhythm is neglected, which can cause confusion for the player, especially if you map 1/4 like most of this section. Simply put, it's better to either map the entire rhythm than or simplify it completely than to mix rhythms (like you have with the vocals and the background piano).
It's also worth noting that the way you switch rhythm choice (say from slider-slider to circle-circle-circle-circle or whatever) should realistically be consistent, unless the song clearly calls for a unexpected change. This just helps with player intuition and expectations.
00:48:167 (1) - This is undermapping to the extreme by the way, especially when you map so much 1/4 before hand and there's 1/4 still playing for the duration of the spinner. Also, the spinner is WAY too long if you ask me, and would probably be the bane of any HR player. :|


1st Kiai
It's at this point that the inexperience becomes very apparent, as demonstrated by the visuals as well as object placement. Both of which are poor. First of all, I must tell you that extremely wide angles such as https://puu.sh/zuCVA.jpg are brutal to play, especially when spaced like that and as such a wide angle. Furthermore, by doing this you also unintentionally emphasise the middle object in the wide angle due to strain caused by the fact that you can't snap normally on it.
00:58:804 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - is an example of a pretty bad pattern. Why you ask? Firstly 00:58:940 (2) - has a REAL strong kick on it, and has literally no emphasis through spacing, angles or visuals, and is basically treat the same as 00:59:213 (4) - . Moreover, the wide angle of 00:59:213 (4,5,6) - is incredibly uncomfortable, and creates so much emphasis on 00:59:349 (5) - which is unnecessary.
01:04:940 (3,4,5,6) - Given that you've chosen to hitsound these differently to the rest of stuff in this area, presumably due to the background sounds, it would appear as though there should be more emphasis on each of them, yet you under-emphasise them all by just stacking them, which isn't exciting at all, nor does it really reflect changes in the music well.
On a sidenote of visuals, 01:04:395 (1) - don't do this. This is overlapping more stuff than the folds on an American, and is just as ugly to look at and play.
01:01:395 (4,5,6) - another obscenely wide angle (perfect 180 by the looks of it).
01:09:849 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4) - Don't randomly place stuff like this. Just because it flows or something doesn't mean it's good. Consider how things look both in gameplay and in the editor, make sure it looks pretty and/or thought out. Remember, recognisable patterns and stuff are easier to play than random jumps :P
Pretty much everything i've mentioned above can be applied to the rest of the kiai.
01:14:213 - Personally believe this should be the end of the kiai as its the end of the main chorus, though this is entirely preference.
01:18:031 (1,2,3,4,5) - It is possible that is actually breaks RC because of the fact that the slider does not have a clear path, as the end is obstructed by the stack, so I would avoid this kinda thing :/
01:26:213 (5) - Avoid slider shapes that are messy/poorly designed like this, 02:12:031 (5) - , 02:16:395 (5) - , et cetera. You can use unique slider shapes, but they still gotta look pretty and stuff

01:31:667 (1,2,3,4,1) - Personally wouldn't advise doing stuff like this without better experience, cuz you need to make it very clear and obvious for the player what is a 1/4 gap, what is a 1/2 gap, and what is a 1/1 gap by playing on player intuition. You can do exactly what you've done here, using smaller spacing for larger time gaps, but it's gonna be well executed otherwise it's a nightmare.


As this alone took me like 1 and a half hours to do this stuff, and I feel as though i've missed a lot of stuff out, but what i've mentioned can be applied everywhere, if you look yourself. Hopefully this is all useful for you and doesn't put you off mapping :>

Topic Starter
_sponez
Thanks for mod and guides. I'll try to do everything better.

ShiiTsuin wrote:

Hey! Been so long since I've used ModdingV1 :o
I do apologise, cuz this is gonna be one huge post, mostly cuz i gotta break down most of what I say in case there's something you aren't familiar with :P
(ps: Don't just apply what i say to the existing map, I'd strongly suggest as painful as it can be to just remap from scratch, using what you learn from this as well as any practice maps you make to hopefully make something nicer. PM me or post on the queue again if you need more help in the near future, more than happy to go through things again :P)
Edit: don't take what I say at face value and let it kill your motivation. Chances are even if you took on board everything I said here you'd probably have more of this kinda post from other modders, mostly because I'm either a bad modder, or because it takes time and effort to get good at mapping. Don't let mappers spirit die :)

Inferno
00:04:395 - to 00:21:849 - .
If you look at all iterations of this song that are ranked (and fort's version), you should notice that this section is either not mapped to at all, or apparently severely undermapped. Can you think of why? The main reason this bit is so neglected is because it lacks in any sort of intensity, and has very little or no musical backing, save for some subtle "ting" sounds on downbeats (big white ticks). For this reason, most people make this section either overly simple or just non-existent.
As an alternative to mapping that section, you could opt to map the breaks before the first kiai, as they have more depth to them with kicks and a synth/guitar(?).
00:20:758 (4) - Don't like how the heavy kick on the downbeat is passively mapped because of prioritising the vocals, feels like the downbeat would be much nicer with some sort of emphasis. Also don't like the worlds smallest overlap with 00:19:667 (2,4) - , just small enough to bug me :v


00:39:304 - to 00:55:667 - has some questionable choices and stuff that I need to go over as less of a mod.
This might contradict what you know about mapping, but this entire section should be a lot less dense in terms of active rhythm. Yes, i hear the 1/4 piano or whatever in the background, but that does not necessarily mean you have to map effectively 110bpm streams. Whilst i don't suggest that you completely ignore this section like Sotarks did, or arguably undermap like in Mao's collab, I personally would suggest switching to using repeating 1/4 sliders like https://puu.sh/zuCdO.jpg or https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10332917as suggested patterns if you were to opt for this.

Likewise, as you've actively mapped the 1/4 right now, you end up missing out a lot of things you could be doing, as well as some of the 1/4 rhythm when you map 1/2 sliders. https://puu.sh/zuCow.jpg is a visual guide for this. Red dots are the percieved rhythm, cause by actively and passively mapping things, whilst the pink lines show the actual rhythm. Where the blue lines point toward show where the actual rhythm is neglected, which can cause confusion for the player, especially if you map 1/4 like most of this section. Simply put, it's better to either map the entire rhythm than or simplify it completely than to mix rhythms (like you have with the vocals and the background piano).
It's also worth noting that the way you switch rhythm choice (say from slider-slider to circle-circle-circle-circle or whatever) should realistically be consistent, unless the song clearly calls for a unexpected change. This just helps with player intuition and expectations.
00:48:167 (1) - This is undermapping to the extreme by the way, especially when you map so much 1/4 before hand and there's 1/4 still playing for the duration of the spinner. Also, the spinner is WAY too long if you ask me, and would probably be the bane of any HR player. :|


1st Kiai
It's at this point that the inexperience becomes very apparent, as demonstrated by the visuals as well as object placement. Both of which are poor. First of all, I must tell you that extremely wide angles such as https://puu.sh/zuCVA.jpg are brutal to play, especially when spaced like that and as such a wide angle. Furthermore, by doing this you also unintentionally emphasise the middle object in the wide angle due to strain caused by the fact that you can't snap normally on it.
00:58:804 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - is an example of a pretty bad pattern. Why you ask? Firstly 00:58:940 (2) - has a REAL strong kick on it, and has literally no emphasis through spacing, angles or visuals, and is basically treat the same as 00:59:213 (4) - . Moreover, the wide angle of 00:59:213 (4,5,6) - is incredibly uncomfortable, and creates so much emphasis on 00:59:349 (5) - which is unnecessary.
01:04:940 (3,4,5,6) - Given that you've chosen to hitsound these differently to the rest of stuff in this area, presumably due to the background sounds, it would appear as though there should be more emphasis on each of them, yet you under-emphasise them all by just stacking them, which isn't exciting at all, nor does it really reflect changes in the music well.
On a sidenote of visuals, 01:04:395 (1) - don't do this. This is overlapping more stuff than the folds on an American, and is just as ugly to look at and play.
01:01:395 (4,5,6) - another obscenely wide angle (perfect 180 by the looks of it).
01:09:849 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4) - Don't randomly place stuff like this. Just because it flows or something doesn't mean it's good. Consider how things look both in gameplay and in the editor, make sure it looks pretty and/or thought out. Remember, recognisable patterns and stuff are easier to play than random jumps :P
Pretty much everything i've mentioned above can be applied to the rest of the kiai.
01:14:213 - Personally believe this should be the end of the kiai as its the end of the main chorus, though this is entirely preference.
01:18:031 (1,2,3,4,5) - It is possible that is actually breaks RC because of the fact that the slider does not have a clear path, as the end is obstructed by the stack, so I would avoid this kinda thing :/
01:26:213 (5) - Avoid slider shapes that are messy/poorly designed like this, 02:12:031 (5) - , 02:16:395 (5) - , et cetera. You can use unique slider shapes, but they still gotta look pretty and stuff

01:31:667 (1,2,3,4,1) - Personally wouldn't advise doing stuff like this without better experience, cuz you need to make it very clear and obvious for the player what is a 1/4 gap, what is a 1/2 gap, and what is a 1/1 gap by playing on player intuition. You can do exactly what you've done here, using smaller spacing for larger time gaps, but it's gonna be well executed otherwise it's a nightmare.


As this alone took me like 1 and a half hours to do this stuff, and I feel as though i've missed a lot of stuff out, but what i've mentioned can be applied everywhere, if you look yourself. Hopefully this is all useful for you and doesn't put you off mapping :>

Mimiliaa
Hello, sorry, i'm begginer modder, i will try my best !

Inferno
01:08:076 (1,2,3,4,5) - 01:09:167 (1,2,3,4,5) - I guess it could be better if 1-2-3-4-5 are aligned ?
01:46:395 (4,1,2) - everytime they was theses sounds before, you decided to put circles/jumps so we can click it. And now you put a slider on the same sound. I guess it could be better if you mapped this sound the same way as you mapped the other ?
01:50:758 (7) - ^ (same applies to some other spots)
01:59:758 (1,2,3) - I dont really understand why you changed the angle of the jump of this song ? I guess you could try having the same angle since the sound is the same.
02:04:122 (1,2,3) - and this time for the same sound, you decide to not put a jump. It would be better to keep mapping same sounds the same way i guess.
02:58:940 (1) - Imo it would be better if this wasnt a reverse slider, so we can click on the strong sound.
03:14:622 (2,3,4,5,6) - spacing between all isn't the same. For theses types of things i would recommand using distance snap so the distance between all circles is the same.
03:37:258 (4,5,6) - theses are overmapped ?

Overall i would recommand to just pay attention on how you map some sounds. Because sometimes you change the way you map a sound without any reasons i guess ?
Good luck with the map ! :)
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