15:16 Mir: sensei
15:17 MrSergio: yo
15:17 Mir: what is your view on pp maps
15:17 Mir: or maps that follow the song but in a way that gives lots of pp
15:17 MrSergio: pp in most cases equals huge jumps
15:17 MrSergio: as long as those jumps make sense and have a sort of structure I don't care
15:18 MrSergio: but turns out most pp maps don't have the slightest trail of structure when it comes to 1,2 jumps
15:18 MrSergio: see Doormat maps
15:18 MrSergio: see Sotarks maps
15:18 MrSergio: see Fycho maps
15:18 Mir: can you take a look at mine and
15:18 Mir: tell me if it needs work in that structure
15:18 MrSergio: sure
15:18 *Mir is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1281115 Mia REGINA - My Sweet Maiden]
15:21 MrSergio: 00:10:128 (1,2,1) - rip structure
15:21 MrSergio: I mean... not really rip
15:21 MrSergio: it's rather... not even born xD
15:21 Mir: o
15:22 MrSergio: 00:18:952 (1,2) - I can see it as a constant thing, but I wonder what it is
15:22 MrSergio: it is just a couple of sliders, one straight and one curved
15:22 MrSergio: without any... specific reason I can find in the music
15:22 MrSergio: 00:31:599 (4,5) - either 3 circles or remove clap from tail
15:22 Mir: well i was kind of going for the
15:22 Mir: circular movement
15:23 MrSergio: well, flow can be fixed once you make a decent structure
15:23 Mir: 3 circles it is
15:23 MrSergio: and basing a whole map just on a sort of flow is too weak
15:23 Mir: true
15:23 MrSergio: since a player moves a lot during a single map, so identifying a specific flow as "characteristic of the map" is impossible
15:23 MrSergio: 00:36:599 (1,2,3,4) - this is alredy better
15:24 Mir: i fixed it
15:24 MrSergio: 00:49:981 (1) - this looks like a new movement, a new rhythm, yet it is visually placed within 00:49:246 (3,1,2,3,1,2) - , which is a bit meh imo
15:25 MrSergio: 00:56:599 (1) - why not ctrl G, you have such a forced movement between 00:56:305 (5,1) -
15:25 Mir: yeah that's fine
15:26 Mir: moved 2 as well
15:26 MrSergio: I mean... overall it has nothing bad
15:26 MrSergio: the huge jumps most of the times forces you to do certain things, which obviously repeat across large spaced maps
15:27 MrSergio: in gameplay it probably feels perfectly fine
15:27 MrSergio: and tbh that's what I ultimately care about
15:27 Mir: ah i see
15:27 MrSergio: although uhhh... structure-wise is probably easily forgettable
15:27 Mir: what do you mean by that o-o
15:28 MrSergio: I usually make maps in a way that most likely will identify that map as my map in someone else's mind
15:28 MrSergio: something that tells them "hey, this is Sergio's map because it has X and Y"
15:28 MrSergio: or even "this is X map, I remember it" because of some pattern or idk
15:29 Mir: ohh i see
15:30 Mir: but is it like
15:30 Mir: doormat-level lacking in jump structure
15:30 MrSergio: well, it's not like Doormat maps totally lack structure. He does something
15:31 MrSergio: in that regard your jumps have some structure, but the high spacing screws it up so I wonder if my impression about large jumps is due to that :thinking:
15:31 Mir: hmm
15:32 Mir: i can pretty much explain every aspect of these jumps though
15:32 MrSergio: then it's perfectly fine
15:32 Mir: so that already means i put some thought into it
15:32 Mir: \o/
15:33 MrSergio: whether you can use the same reasoning in more than a couple of places is what would make your structure even better
15:33 MrSergio: I mean, it would mean that structure is indeed solid
15:34 Mir: 01:07:187 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - does this look unstructured to you
15:35 Mir: just curious
15:39 MrSergio: ah, moment
15:39 Mir: okie
15:40 MrSergio: 01:07:334 (2,3,4,5,6) - this may seem a failed attempt for a star
15:40 MrSergio: if I go by large structures, 01:07:187 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this one may be... a special hexagon? xD
15:40 Mir: yes it's a special hexagon
15:40 Mir: xD
15:41 MrSergio: it's more like... I can't seem to find 2 identical angles or spacings in that besides the fact 01:07:481 (3,4) - is the copy of 01:07:776 (5,6) -
15:41 Mir: it's like a crystal thingy
15:41 MrSergio: or viceversa, whatever
15:41 MrSergio: umh...
15:41 MrSergio: well, in editor I can see that
15:41 MrSergio: in gameplay is it possible to?
15:41 Mir: hmm
15:42 MrSergio: 01:07:187 (1,2) - the fact you go across the diamond like this already makes me not thing much about the hexagon
15:42 Mir: i don't know
15:42 MrSergio: for example
15:42 MrSergio: to enhance that structure you can move 01:08:217 (8) - on 01:07:334 (2) -
15:42 Mir: what if
15:42 Mir: i ctrl+g 2 and 4
15:42 MrSergio: umh... it would look better
15:44 Mir: still with with the 4 and 2
15:44 Mir: uh
15:44 Mir: wha
15:44 Mir: i mean the now 4 and the 8
15:44 Mir: should i still move it?
15:45 MrSergio: it would be different if you do the ctrl G AND move that
15:46 MrSergio: what I meant with my suggestion was that it is easy to identify the back and forth movements as limits of an [https://mrsergio.s-ul.eu/Kn0YDrRx.png imaginary line]. If you merge these limits you mentally form a figure
15:46 MrSergio: anything that starts changing things a little will focus the player's attention on something else
15:46 MrSergio: and therefore the feel of structure will be reduced
15:46 MrSergio: I mean, it would be harder to notice the diamond
15:48 Mir: i would think that
15:48 Mir:
http://i.imgur.com/EEDKqmM.png15:48 Mir: this is kind of a tell-tale movement no?
15:48 Mir: wow i just realized my lines are really confusing to look at
15:48 MrSergio: umh, that works too
15:48 Mir: please forgive my shitty art
15:49 MrSergio: in fact, it may work even better than mine
15:49 MrSergio: but that depends on the player I guess
15:49 Mir: yeah i suppose
15:49 Mir: depends on how the player best recognizes patterns
15:49 MrSergio: as usual, repeating certain things helps
15:49 Mir: through visual data or movement xd
15:49 MrSergio: if they are dumb and don't see them it's their fault xd
15:49 Mir: hehe i suppose
15:50 Mir: oh can you tell me what you think about flezlin's extra too
15:50 Mir: i think it's relatively okay
15:51 MrSergio: some NCs are too much, but the map is pretty good
15:51 MrSergio: 01:28:216 (5) - make it a circle lmao
15:51 Mir: \o/
15:51 Mir: thats what i thought too
15:52 Mir: he'll never notice
15:53 Mir: if you want post for kds
15:53 Mir: xd
15:53 MrSergio: I'd almost be tempted tbh