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[invalid] Removing PP system entirely?

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Total Posts
16
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +0
cosmic
641 posts
Joined February 2017
Topic Starter
cosmic
I'm gonna make this short bc it's pretty simple:
I think the accuracy changes of score v2 should be applied to a degree, but I honestly think the whole pp system should be removed. In terms of ranking, the game would be more balanced if it individual performances weren't given performance points, but instead, your average accuracy should be applied to each score (scoreV2) of a performance of that performance for a grand total.
This is just my opinion, but it would make pp farming pretty obsolete, and you wouldn't be a lower rank than someone you are better than just because they've played more maps than you (Not that that is a big issue, just the system would be more accurate/clear in showing who is better than who).
Obviously the system would be more polished than what I explained, but I think you get the idea.
Again just my opinion
Edit: Removed star difficulty from equation
Last edited by cosmic , edited 1 time in total.
joorieoorie
2 posts
Joined November 2014
joorieoorie
While agree that the pp system isn't always perfect, the star system is even more broken at some maps.i
Edgar_Figaro
916 posts
Joined May 2015
Edgar_Figaro
Going by pure star rating times ACC would be a terrible metric. People would just go around looking for the highest star map with the simplest patterns. This would be especially bad for really long maps as there would be no bonus for getting a score on a map that requires endurance. Also mods that don't change SR would be completely irrelevant. Why play a map with hidden as it doesn't increase SR? So it would basically turn into a game of "what's the highest star value I can get good ACC on" which is exactly what mania has (excluding the new DT change) which doesn't eliminate farming at all. For instance my top Mania play is unsurprisingly triumph and regret. Because it's a overweighted song in star rating that I can get good ACC on.
cosmic
641 posts
Joined February 2017
Topic Starter
cosmic

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

Going by pure star rating times ACC would be a terrible metric. People would just go around looking for the highest star map with the simplest patterns. This would be especially bad for really long maps as there would be no bonus for getting a score on a map that requires endurance. Also mods that don't change SR would be completely irrelevant. Why play a map with hidden as it doesn't increase SR? So it would basically turn into a game of "what's the highest star value I can get good ACC on" which is exactly what mania has (excluding the new DT change) which doesn't eliminate farming at all. For instance my top Mania play is unsurprisingly triumph and regret. Because it's a overweighted song in star rating that I can get good ACC on.
True, then I guess if you applied average accuracy to score V2 scores, than that would work much better than what I suggested.
o x
1,528 posts
Joined May 2015
o x

cosmiccc wrote:

you wouldn't be a lower rank than someone you are better than just because they've played more maps than you
Actually this is exactly what would happen. If you base everything off of accuracy and don't count star rating then you are only going to get people who just play 4 star marathon maps to SS, it gives massive score and will be worth lots since what you are explaining has nothing to do with star rating. It's pretty clear that I could FC a 7 star map with 98acc and still be behind someone who SS'd a 50 minute map that was a 4 star.
Asaiga
848 posts
Joined July 2013
Asaiga
By removing pp systems changes the distribution in popularity of maps in a positive way, players will be looking for newer and more interesting maps to play. The Most Played Beatmaps section needs to be changed! I see two or three same maps every day on it since last year =A=

I feel unfair for newer ranked maps that get fewer playcounts just because the pp-income is lower.
cosmic
641 posts
Joined February 2017
Topic Starter
cosmic

wwwww_ wrote:

cosmiccc wrote:

you wouldn't be a lower rank than someone you are better than just because they've played more maps than you
Actually this is exactly what would happen. If you base everything off of accuracy and don't count star rating then you are only going to get people who just play 4 star marathon maps to SS, it gives massive score and will be worth lots since what you are explaining has nothing to do with star rating. It's pretty clear that I could FC a 7 star map with 98acc and still be behind someone who SS'd a 50 minute map that was a 4 star.
Ugh that's true too, this is such a dicey topic lol
Edgar_Figaro
916 posts
Joined May 2015
Edgar_Figaro

cosmiccc wrote:

Ugh that's true too, this is such a dicey topic lol
PP system isn't perfect, I don't think anyone is arguing that as it has some flaws. But out of all the systems Osu has had it's the closest to a fair ranking system. The main problem with PP system is that technical maps are completely shafted as technical patterns don't raise star rating as much as other thing. In Osu Standard for instance the Star rating system only really is based on speed of tapping and how hard a circle is to hit (which goes based on the distance as well as circle size). PP system helps to balance other factors like Accuracy and OD on a map (as well as rewarding maps with more circles as you only get 300 judgements on sliders). But there are definitely items in question that aren't addressed by current PP system. Rather than throwing away current system probably better to just try and think of algorithms that could be used to improve the current PP calculation.
pkhg
2,507 posts
Joined May 2010
pkhg
its really hard to make a ranking system for this game cuz difficulty is subjetive. i personally dont have problems with the current one
o x
1,528 posts
Joined May 2015
o x

Asaiga wrote:

I feel unfair for newer ranked maps that get fewer playcounts just because the pp-income is lower.
There are lots of people who don't play osu! just for pp and play maps that are fun, most newly ranked maps are played quite a bit if the skill level is right whether it gives lots of pp or not.

Asaiga wrote:

By removing pp systems changes the distribution in popularity of maps in a positive way, players will be looking for newer and more interesting maps to play.
Actually people would be looking for easier longer maps or shorter maps that have a star rating that is overrated

Asaiga wrote:

The Most Played Beatmaps section needs to be changed! I see two or three same maps every day on it since last year =A=
This doesn't actually have to do with PP, usually people who are new to the game don't know what maps to get and since they see what is the highest played beatmap they play it too, which tends to constantly keep adding to it's play count. Nothing you can do about it.
GoodBoye
4 posts
Joined August 2016
GoodBoye
aaa
Last edited by GoodBoye , edited 1 time in total.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Just bring back the competitive idea of ppv1 and include a weightage for each map that correlates with its ppv2 reward.
That way underrated and underplayed maps would get played more, leading to an overall more balanced farming experience.
Like look at each scoreboard per modcombination (NF/SO/SD/PF ignored as individual mods), calculate the ppv2 value and then weigh the pp depending on your rank on that modscoreboard so that when you got the #1 score with your modcombination you get 110% of the ppv2 pp and at rank 20 you gain 85% capping out at 66% at rank 50 and worse or smth like that (values completely arbitrary).
On popular farm-maps this would mean that you could still gain easy pp but the incentive to play new maps and different maps would be much higher especially with Flashlight
Edgar_Figaro
916 posts
Joined May 2015
Edgar_Figaro

Endaris wrote:

Just bring back the competitive idea of ppv1 and include a weightage for each map that correlates with its ppv2 reward.
That way underrated and underplayed maps would get played more, leading to an overall more balanced farming experience.
Like look at each scoreboard per modcombination (NF/SO/SD/PF ignored as individual mods), calculate the ppv2 value and then weigh the pp depending on your rank on that modscoreboard so that when you got the #1 score with your modcombination you get 110% of the ppv2 pp and at rank 20 you gain 85% capping out at 66% at rank 50 and worse or smth like that (values completely arbitrary).
On popular farm-maps this would mean that you could still gain easy pp but the incentive to play new maps and different maps would be much higher especially with Flashlight
That sounds like a terrible idea. Yeah lets farm easy PP by playing all the songs I can normally FC anyways but with No Fail turned on so I get more PP as nobody gets good No Fail scores so I'll be the best No Fail player!. Honestly what would make 2 players with the exact same plays and performances on their profile better or worse than the other simply because one of them chose a mod that doesn't alter gameplay mechanics at all (except you can't fail of course) better simply because other people don't play like that....
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

Endaris wrote:

(NF/SO/SD/PF ignored as individual mods)
meaning applying these works as if you didn't apply them for the ranking
so NFHDDT would be compared to other people's HDDT scores as if NF wasn't picked (with the 10% penalty to the v2 pp of the play still applied)
Attenox
Attenox
Nah, is fine as it is
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Instead of removals, suggest ideas to improve the current system. Shoot your opinion here: t/181850
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