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Sim Gretina - Raise This Barn (Remix) [Osu|Taiko]

posted
Total Posts
82
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Friday, January 25, 2013 at 1:53:05 AM

Artist: Sim Gretina
Title: Raise This Barn (Remix)
Source: My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
Tags: house applejack mlp daniel ingram VinylDash14 TheVileOne Tasha _Gezo_
BPM: 130
Filesize: 7921kb
Play Time: 03:05
Difficulties Available:
  1. Easy (2.73 stars, 251 notes)
  2. Gezo's Taiko Muzukashii (4.5 stars, 572 notes)
  3. Insane (4.95 stars, 559 notes)
  4. Tasha's Taiko Poni (4.89 stars, 860 notes)
  5. TVO's Hard (4.54 stars, 333 notes)
  6. VinylDash's Normal (3.16 stars, 251 notes)
Download: Sim Gretina - Raise This Barn (Remix)
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
mega wip somethings will be changed at a later date, this is my 1st time messing with custom set 3 and it is pretty fun to play with!
1/3/13 small update to insane
1/3/13 added TVO's hard tags will be updated at a later time.
1/3/13 insane sorta kinda done edit fixed few hitsounds
1/5/13 fixed some more hitsounds in both diffs just now updating the insane tho.
1/5/13 added Vdash's normal thanks for that
1/5/13 started work on easy
1/5/13 updated easy half way there~
1/6/13 omg easy is done ready for modding!
1/5/13 Added Tasha's Taiko Poni Thanks Tasha~
1/8/13 fixed a few small things here and there
1/12/13 applied mods for GDs
1/13/13 fixed combo colors
1/14/13 adjusted some combos in the insane.
1/14/13 updated both taikos to matching ki times and mods applied thanks tasha I'm lazy pony
1/15/13 fixed a few things.
1/15/13 applied more mods thanks so much guys!
1/16/13 ADDED KI TIME
1/17/13 Fixed a few things in insane and awaiting my GDs to finish up
1/21/13 updated all diffs still awaiting the changes to gezo's taiko
1/21/13 added in suggestions from garven and a few new hitsounds samples so redownload!
1/23/13 updated taiko diff
1/24/13 applied jacobs mods waiting for TVO
1/24/13 TVO
Last edited by ztrot , edited 39 times in total.
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
Hi ztrot !
May I make a Taiko difficulty for this map ? (I might make a second if nobody else wants to take the spot !)
Thanks for answering :D/
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot

_Gezo_ wrote:

Hi ztrot !
May I make a Taiko difficulty for this map ? (I might make a second if nobody else wants to take the spot !)
Thanks for answering :D/
I might be okay with that but, I need to figure out the set rules on adding more diffs. I have two wanting to do standard diffs and another one is making a taiko besides you, so that means 4 mappers working on one set. My diffs will be set to 2 right now as it seems so need to get the okay on that and that rule is on shaky ground atm so I'm not sure where it stands..
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak
From what I've seen there's not much issue with it Ztrot. I could be wrong but at least in my case I don't have a problem with Gezo doing the muzukashii or w/e.

Anyways, barn has been raised, come and take a look.

Tasha's Taiko Poni
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne

ztrot wrote:

_Gezo_ wrote:

Hi ztrot !
May I make a Taiko difficulty for this map ? (I might make a second if nobody else wants to take the spot !)
Thanks for answering :D/
I might be okay with that but, I need to figure out the set rules on adding more diffs. I have two wanting to do standard diffs and another one is making a taiko besides you, so that means 4 mappers working on one set. My diffs will be set to 2 right now as it seems so need to get the okay on that and that rule is on shaky ground atm so I'm not sure where it stands..
The rule is that no one mapper may have more content than you.

I do not think this difficulty would violate the 8 rule difficulty as well.

4 standard difficulties and 2 taikos = 6 difficulties. 6=/=8
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
6 < 8, not 6 !=8 :P

Also I'm done with that muzukashii. Not hard at all, I'd give a 4/5* (out of 8) http://puu.sh/1K71M
Thanks Tasha for letting me mapping this diff (and you for mapping this awesome song) !

Edit : made a friend test this map, he SS'd it nomod sightread so... I think this is correct enough. I'll provide replay and screenshot later in the day o/
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
RACIST BARN! RACIST BARN!

hehe
Uni
Global Moderator
250 posts
Joined December 2010
Uni

MMzz wrote:

RACIST BARN! RACIST BARN!

hehe
u stole it ;w;
Love
osu! Alumni
1,267 posts
Joined August 2010
Love
Hey there! Just modding from my queue.

Red = Needs to be fixed.
Black = Suggestions.

[Easy]
- AR -1?
00:14:769 (1) - Finish at the beginning?
00:16:615 (1) - ^
01:03:692 (2) - Move the end tick down 1 to match 01:02:769 (1)?
01:12:000 (1) - This is a bit too far from the previous note. Try something like this: http://puu.sh/1LP1l
01:19:384 (1) - The note after this spinner is pretty soon so that it plays as a normal, maybe continue using these: 01:34:153 (1,2).
02:48:000 (1) - ^

[VinylDash's Normal]
00:00:000 (1) - End the spinner at 00:03:692, the next note is too soon after the spinner.
00:06:000 (1,2) - After moving the spinner, move these to 00:05:538. This will allow 00:06:923 (2) to end on an upbeat, thus feeling better to play.
00:07:384 - Add a note or slider here. The slider should end on 00:07:846 if you choose a slider.
00:10:153 (4) - Decrease the length of this to a 1/1 slider instead of 2/1, then add a note where the end of the slider was.
00:12:923 (3) - NC here.
00:16:615 (3) - ^
00:18:461 (1) - Decrease the length of this to a 1/1 slider instead of 2/1, then add a note where the end of the slider was.
00:20:307 (3) - NC here.
00:21:230 (2) - Maybe remove the repeat from this slider then add a note on 00:22:153 and NC it, then remove the combo after.
00:24:000 (3) - NC here.
00:26:538 (2,4,2) - These are a bit too much in a normal, I would suggest if you remove these.
00:28:615 (3) - Please decrease the length of this by 1/2 so it only repeats once.
00:35:769 (2) - Remove this? Having notes on a 1/2 after a slider plays badly on a normal.
00:38:538 (3) - ^
00:41:307 (2) - ^
00:43:153 (2,4,2) - ^
00:49:153 (2) - ^
00:49:384 (2) - Change this into a note? Looks nice without it being a 1/2 slider.
00:51:000 (2) - The 1/2 between sliders :< Please remove.
00:54:230 (4) - ^
00:56:076 (2) - ^, please for the love of god, no more ;w;
00:57:923 (2) - ^ whyyyyyy, umm, yeah. These are just overmapped and shouldn't even be here. You could remove all of the 1/2 notes inbetween sliders. They are really awkward and play badly.
00:58:153 (2) - Change this into a repeat?
01:12:000 (3) - NC
01:17:538 (1,2) - A bit too hard for a normal, will probably cause players to slider break. Just have them repeat once.
01:20:769 (3) - Change this into a note? Of course 01:21:461 (1,2) will have to be changed to a note-note-slider on 1/2.
01:25:615 (2) - Again with the 1/2 between sliders ;w;
01:29:538 (3) - Shorten this to a 1/1 slider. Looks better without the slider tick and will play better since there's a repeat slider after.
01:30:461 (1) - NC
01:32:307 (1) - Remove the repeat from this and add a note here 01:33:230.
01:40:384 (2) - 1/2 between sliders zzz D:
01:42:461 (2) - Change this into a note?
01:44:307 (2) - Shorten this to a 1/1 slider.
01:45:230 (1) - NC
01:45:923 (2) - Remoooove, evil 1/2 T_T
01:47:076 (1) - Shorten this to a 1/1 slider. Also, move the red tick to the left enough so you have room for the straight part: http://puu.sh/1LRCA
01:48:692 (3) - Not agaiiiin with the 1/2 note between a slider. Its making the normal play so hard.
01:57:000 (2) - ^
02:00:923 (2,3) - Why not just have these as notes.
02:05:076 (3) - Change this into a note on each end? With a NC on the note after (3).
02:13:846 (2) - Shorten this?
02:17:307 (2) - Remooove, I've explained this enough ;w;~~~
02:19:846 (3) - Make this into 2 notes? Each of them on the 1/1 with a NC on the 2nd one. This is because instead of removing the 1/2, you can just have it as a slider note note, which plays.
02:21:230 (2) - Shorten this?
02:22:153 (3) - NC
02:24:230 (1) - Explained enouuugh.
02:33:923 (2,4,2) - ^^^
02:38:538 (3) - ^^^^^^^^
02:44:076 (3) - ^^^^^^^^^^^
02:49:615 (3,2) - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
02:58:384 (2) - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
03:01:846 (2) - Change this into a note? As said before, it looks better than a 1/2 slider to another slider.

[TVO's Hard]
I have nothing to say about this diff besides the Jumps, the Jumps might be a little too far.

[Insane]
00:23:538 (6) - Stack this on top of 00:22:153 (3)?
00:30:230 (4,5) - Move this to the right 1 grid?
00:48:002 (2) - Stack this on top of 00:47:307 (6)?
01:09:230 (4) - Move the 3rd tick down 1 grid to match 01:08:769 (3).

[Gezo's Taiko Muzukashii]
- 1.4/1.6 SV Please, there's no need to be unique with 1.5...
00:28:269 (19) - Remove this? Might be a little to hard.
00:29:076 - Add a d here if you remove the one before?
00:51:000 (2) - Remove this so it's just a 1/1 spacing for the "1, 2, 3, 4."
00:52:615 (1) - k? Just throwing this out there cause why not.
01:00:923 (2,4) - Turn these into K?
01:42:000 (1,1,2,1,2) - Change this to k k d d k, flows better.
01:52:615 (2,4) - K?
02:23:538 (3) - d?
02:25:153 (1) - d? flows better after ddd
02:49:153 (1,1) - Switch these around.

[Tasha's Taiko Poni]
- 1.4/1.6 SV Please..
00:59:076 (1) - I know this is 130 BPM, but why a 1/4 finisher here? Just looks nasty. I think I could tell you were trying to let it slide with the 1.9 SV but just no... It plays badly.
01:13:846 (1) - ^, here, try a kkk D
01:50:769 (1) - ^
ColdTooth
1,100 posts
Joined June 2012
ColdTooth

Love wrote:

Hey there! Just modding from my queue.

Red = Needs to be fixed.
Black = Suggestions.

[VinylDash's Normal]
00:00:000 (1) - End the spinner at 00:03:692, the next note is too soon after the spinner. ..Fine
00:06:000 (1,2) - After moving the spinner, move these to 00:05:538. This will allow 00:06:923 (2) to end on an upbeat, thus feeling better to play. Re-organized
00:07:384 - Add a note or slider here. The slider should end on 00:07:846 if you choose a slider.Yup
00:10:153 (4) - Decrease the length of this to a 1/1 slider instead of 2/1, then add a note where the end of the slider was. Yes
00:12:923 (3) - NC here. Yes
00:16:615 (3) - ^ No. I like it better the way it is, unless others complain about it.
00:18:461 (1) - Decrease the length of this to a 1/1 slider instead of 2/1, then add a note where the end of the slider was. Yes
00:20:307 (3) - NC here. Fine
00:21:230 (2) - Maybe remove the repeat from this slider then add a note on 00:22:153 and NC it, then remove the combo after. Yes
00:24:000 (3) - NC here. No
00:26:538 (2,4,2) - These are a bit too much in a normal, I would suggest if you remove these. Re-organized
00:28:615 (3) - Please decrease the length of this by 1/2 so it only repeats once. Fine
00:35:769 (2) - Remove this? Having notes on a 1/2 after a slider plays badly on a normal. Yes
00:38:538 (3) - ^ ^
00:41:307 (2) - ^ ^
00:43:153 (2,4,2) - ^ Fixed, but the offbeat notes fit it, so i kept one
00:49:153 (2) - ^ Yes
00:49:384 (2) - Change this into a note? Looks nice without it being a 1/2 slider. ^
00:51:000 (2) - The 1/2 between sliders :< Please remove. Fine
00:54:230 (4) - ^ ^
00:56:076 (2) - ^, please for the love of god, no more ;w; ..^
00:57:923 (2) - ^ whyyyyyy, umm, yeah. These are just overmapped and shouldn't even be here. You could remove all of the 1/2 notes inbetween sliders. They are really awkward and play badly. Oh alright, but I left a few in where they DO play good imo
00:58:153 (2) - Change this into a repeat? Yup
01:12:000 (3) - NC Sure
01:17:538 (1,2) - A bit too hard for a normal, will probably cause players to slider break. Just have them repeat once. Yeah
01:20:769 (3) - Change this into a note? Of course 01:21:461 (1,2) will have to be changed to a note-note-slider on 1/2. Nah, it may sound good, but I like it the way it is right now.
01:25:615 (2) - Again with the 1/2 between sliders ;w; Yes..
01:29:538 (3) - Shorten this to a 1/1 slider. Looks better without the slider tick and will play better since there's a repeat slider after. Yes
01:30:461 (1) - NC Yes
01:32:307 (1) - Remove the repeat from this and add a note here 01:33:230. For now, I'll leave it there, if others complain then yes I will fix it.
01:40:384 (2) - 1/2 between sliders zzz D: Fixed
01:42:461 (2) - Change this into a note? No. It's fine for now.
01:44:307 (2) - Shorten this to a 1/1 slider.Fixed
01:45:230 (1) - NC Yes
01:45:923 (2) - Remoooove, evil 1/2 T_T Fine
01:47:076 (1) - Shorten this to a 1/1 slider. Also, move the red tick to the left enough so you have room for the straight part: http://puu.sh/1LRCA That's actually not a bad idea. I'll think about it over this map.
01:48:692 (3) - Not agaiiiin with the 1/2 note between a slider. Its making the normal play so hard. Fixed
01:57:000 (2) - ^ ^
02:00:923 (2,3) - Why not just have these as notes. Alright
02:05:076 (3) - Change this into a note on each end? With a NC on the note after (3). Nah, I like it the way it is not.
02:13:846 (2) - Shorten this? Nah, but if others complain, I'll fix
02:17:307 (2) - Remooove, I've explained this enough ;w;~~~ Fixed
02:19:846 (3) - Make this into 2 notes? Each of them on the 1/1 with a NC on the 2nd one. This is because instead of removing the 1/2, you can just have it as a slider note note, which plays. Fixed
02:21:230 (2) - Shorten this? Fixed
02:22:153 (3) - NCFixed
02:24:230 (1) - Explained enouuugh. Fixed
02:33:923 (2,4,2) - ^^^ Yes
02:38:538 (3) - ^^^^^^^^ Yes..
02:44:076 (3) - ^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes...
02:49:615 (3,2) - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes.
02:58:384 (2) - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes..
03:01:846 (2) - Change this into a note? As said before, it looks better than a 1/2 slider to another slider. Yup

holy crap, that was a LONG mod.

http://puu.sh/1Mvqj
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun

Love wrote:

[Gezo's Taiko Muzukashii]
- 1.4/1.6 SV Please, there's no need to be unique with 1.5... I'll stick with 1.4, I forgot to check it before mapping.
00:28:269 (19) - Remove this? Might be a little to hard. I don't think this is that hard, to be honest.
00:29:076 - Add a d here if you remove the one before? -
00:51:000 (2) - Remove this so it's just a 1/1 spacing for the "1, 2, 3, 4." For all "1,2,3,4" that appear in the song, all of them have one 1/2 3-note parts.
00:52:615 (1) - k? Just throwing this out there cause why not. why not... :D
01:00:923 (2,4) - Turn these into K ? Hm, the pitch of the piano does not change at all, I thought about putting that too before giving it, but that would be weird.
01:42:000 (1,1,2,1,2) - Change this to k k d d k, flows better. k-d-d-k-k 1/2 are sometimes the leftovers of my own compositions, lol
01:52:615 (2,4) - K? Same as before.
02:23:538 (3) - d? The snare ;A;
02:25:153 (1) - d? flows better after ddd Fixed that one without any argument
02:49:153 (1,1) - Switch these around. Fixed.
Thanks for modding !
http://puu.sh/1MHek
Zallius
Boats
114 posts
Here since the beginning
Zallius
*poke*

Hard diff has a different colour set if you were going for keeping things matching :)
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak
Made SV 1.4 and applied all mods Love posted (Didn't check the SV when submitting it to ztrot, lol)
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston
Um, hello.

[General]
Piano hitsounds? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?! (I like it)
I'd make the green combo colour a bit darker to match the apple leaf in the bg.

[Easy]
Couldn't find any issues.

[VinylDash's Normal]
03:03:692 (4) - This might sound strange but I'd extend this slider so the repeat is on the blue tick. The way the sliderticks go with the vocals is just.... mmmh. Or just change in some way so that there's something on the beats at 03:04:153 and 03:04:384

[TVO's Hard]
01:54:461 (1) - Change so it doesn't overlap with 01:53:538 (4)?

[Insane]
00:41:423 - add note to go with the vocals?
00:56:192 - ^
00:57:346 (2) - delete note? don't feel it in the music
01:10:961 - add note vocals blah blah
02:11:076 - personally I would use a circle/slider pattern like this instead: http://puu.sh/1NBSF, I think it goes nicely with the piano in the music

Sorry for the crap mod, but this is a nice well structured map and I found it hard to fault. Good luck!
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
I really don't want to do that. This is like my favorite part of my difficulty and those sliders are my favorite sliders. the small hitburst overlap is barely noticeable. It's not worth breaking my proportions to fix.

Oh BTW here's my mod, since your difficulties need it IMO.

General
I included kiai time. Are you not going to have kiai? Possible kiai points are after the drumrolls. There are three possible points where kiai would fit, in my difficulty I only used two of them.

Easy
This difficulty is mapped in a strange way. Like each time you have a stanza start, you change the pace slightly. But during certain similar parts of the map, you use similar mapping elements and patterns, just spaced a bit differently. Examples 00:29:538 (1,2) - is larger snap than 01:21:230 (1,2) - and 02:20:307 (1,2) - which look like you copy and pasted them, but you later made changes to one without changing the other. Another one is 00:42:461 (1,2,1,2) -, which is spaced slightly less consistent and flows worse than 01:34:153 (1,2,1,2) - which is very similar but the spacing is greater and 02:33:230 (1,2,1,2) - which is more different, but plays fine as well. There are other examples too. i'm not saying it has to be all one spacing, but you should at least make sure the spacing choice is optimal and works best for your patterns.

00:36:923 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - This is the least consistent of all of these types of patterns in your map. IMO 02:27:692 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - is your most consistent variation. Your beatmap is like a puzzle and it's important to consider how all the pieces fit together. These sliders are all different shapes and follow their own angles that have nothing to do with the previous set of angles. You're using the wrong pieces here and you should use better pieces.
Here's my suggestion to make it a bit better: 00:36:923 (1) - Have this blanket around 3. It's better than randomly curving outward. As a plus to blanketing, it will look a lot more like 00:38:769 (1) - . Lastly I'm not 100% sure but this just seems like it wants to look like it goes with the previous slider, but it's shape is so different. If you make it like the previous slider (and also like the first slider due to the first suggestion) it will look nicer overall.

Another thing I noticed that each phrase start has a noticeable finish sound to it. It's not as noticeable here but 00:07:384 -, 00:14:769 - are defining sounds and separate phrases, which are divided into 4 measures. You covered those, because they had pianos to accompany them, but when the piano goes away, you abandon the phrase starts. Here 00:29:538 - and here 00:36:923 - < you have a clap on this one. Here 00:44:307 - , and 00:51:692 - < nothing mapped on this. I will check to see if I mapped them in my difficulty, but it might be a good idea to tend to the phrase starts throughout the whole song. I will see what I can do about them in my difficulty as the hitsounding in mine is a bit inconsistent.

00:52:615 (2,1,2,1) - Puzzle piece analogy works here. The sliders just do not fit together. you could improve by curving up instead and having the start of the next slider blanket with it). The rest of the sliders don't create a very interesting pattern and it's not lined up. I came up with this, but I am unsure how well it will work since i made the sliders while having the repeat slider turned into 1/1 notes. http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/569334

01:02:769 (1,2) - Blanket can be better.
01:12:000 (1,2,3,1) - Spacing shouldn't change so much here IMO. If you snapped everything to exactly 1.0 snap, everything will fit correctly into place.
01:13:846 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - Nice pattern.
01:21:230 (1,2) - Please fix the unevenness. It should resemble 00:29:538 (1,2) -
01:41:538 (1,2,3,4) - 4 in this is spaced differently than the other notes.
01:43:384 (1,2,1) - Definitely looks better than your first transition.
01:45:230 (1,2,1) - Still generic like the first part, although the blankets here are a lot more nice to look at than your first transition. 2,1 is a bit off though. If possible it would be better to avoid generic patterns (patterns that basically anyone could do in 2 seconds in their map that have little form or unique qualities)
01:56:307 (2,3) - Unfitting to map offbeat vocals with beat sounds, especially after long sliders. I highly recommend sticking to 1/1 here.
02:05:538 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1,1,2,3,4) - Add hitsounds here? you could lower the volume like you do with finishes, but the finishes are really close to the beat here, particularly at the start of this 02:09:230 (1) -
02:12:923 (1) - Add finish?
02:16:615 (1) - ^
02:21:230 (2) - Doesn't look as good as it could be. Perhaps if you slightly moved it, it would be better. Try x 22 y 131
03:02:769 - Make slider tick quieter?

Vinyl's Normal

00:06:461 (2,1,2) - Random transition. Try moving 1 to the horizontal line.
00:08:307 (2) - This needs to be reshaped. Avoid angling sliders at unusual angles and make it fit the previous slider better. I'll use the puzzle piece analogy here, the pieces do not fit together. It will be easier if you didn't have a repeat here. It will be easier to line up with you next pattern. Here's an example of mine http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/569476 00:08:307 (2,3,4,5) - would make a nice diamond shape. either way, this part should be remapped. Make sure your spacings remain intact.
00:11:076 (1) - Missing a finish
00:18:461 (1) - Missing finish on start, clap on end
00:20:307 (1,2) - Maybe a symmetry pattern here? I wish these sliders would go better together.
00:26:769 (3,1,2,3) - Another random transition and formless pattern. your map is full of these and it makes me question whether this map is fixable. http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/569531 < better looking
00:28:615 (3,1) - Meh transition. I don't like abruptly changing directions. If you do the above change, this will probably be better, but it still wouldn't be the best transition.

I will finish this later. Sorry for the incompleteness.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot

Royston wrote:

Um, hello.

[General]
Piano hitsounds? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?! (I like it)
I'd make the green combo colour a bit darker to match the apple leaf in the bg.

[Easy]
Couldn't find any issues.

[VinylDash's Normal]
03:03:692 (4) - This might sound strange but I'd extend this slider so the repeat is on the blue tick. The way the sliderticks go with the vocals is just.... mmmh. Or just change in some way so that there's something on the beats at 03:04:153 and 03:04:384

[TVO's Hard]
01:54:461 (1) - Change so it doesn't overlap with 01:53:538 (4)?

[Insane]
00:41:423 - add note to go with the vocals? they are what your asking me to place would be on the red tick were there are no vocals so kindly I'm gonna decline
00:56:192 - ^ ^
00:57:346 (2) - delete note? don't feel it in the music those drums would still be tehre if I removed the note so I'll keep it so you can play it :P
01:10:961 - add note vocals blah blah
02:11:076 - personally I would use a circle/slider pattern like this instead: http://puu.sh/1NBSF, I think it goes nicely with the piano in the music

Sorry for the crap mod, but this is a nice well structured map and I found it hard to fault. Good luck!
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
[TVO's MOD]

While your mod is very informative and well thought out I feel it harms the map more than helping it in terms of my diffs, the suggestions for easy breaks what I have in mind for the set diff. Remember spacing can and should be adjusted to fit the music and gameplay the slight jumps I have present in this easy are there for good reason and I did make some changes based on your ideas but I feel your modding is looking for issues that aren't really issues maps can be like a puzzle as you stated. But that is up to the mapper to go through with I've been in the process of trying to get out of my copy paste days and try something new so section you feel like I've copy paste there are changes done there with intent. I will still wait for the rest of the mod but remember while modding you need to make sure what you are suggestion really makes the map better. I just got don't applying all your changes test played the map and I didn't like the end results so I changed it back. Again thank you so much for putting so much detail into your mod it really does help I just don't agree with most of it. :D


Edit: Remove your ki time too thanks not using it on the osu diffs
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
I don't really want to remove my kiai. I have it there to signify large jumpy areas in my maps. They are the crescendos in my mapping. (Yes, I strongly believe your lack of kiai is a mistake, since kiai makes longer songs more enjoyable). That's your choice though, I find that my kiai gets me in the mood to push myself. I think my jumps would be harder to hit, at the crescendos without it.

Wall of text, inspired by your response.
SPOILER
I think you are misreading my mod post. I guess I shouldn't blame you, I was trying to group together several similar issues, and making generalizations about them. I was trying to point out that you were making inconsistent changes in your map, and some of them I didn't particularly like. I thought you might be experienced enough to understand what I meant without me having to spent a paragraph on each instance. I have not checked yet, so I don't know what exactly you have changed. I will do a full recheck when I get the chance.

My opinion of quality is different than yours, and that is fine within reason. Certain things though just should be avoided in any map. I gave you that which I thought is a flaw, and I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. If it looks like a vague generalization, and I do not provide a proper solution (That one I provided in the first part, was due to an early version of the mod which I rewrote), it is a safe bet that it's my opinion on the overall quality of the map or things that I disliked.

There was so many problematic areas that I couldn't figure exact solutions too, that I lumped as many describable ones that I could and left it to you to figure out what was fixable. That example I probably should have removed, but I neglectfully left it in, thinking it may still be usable. I will never expect you to use my solution exactly unless I specially recommend you to do so. That is why some of my suggestions (and opinions you misread as suggestions) might not work out, as I can't spend 5 hours testing all the suggestions I make and sometimes even I don't know how to fix it. If that is the case, I don't expect you to fix it, if you cannot.

Few maps are perfect. Not all flaws are fixable and some are even intentional (anti-jumps, jumps, variable snap changing). Effort is made to weed out non-quality affecting or gameplay affecting issues, but in the case with your difficulty, it really felt strange that I kept playing the same sections, but slightly slower or faster. I adjust my cursor to the rate the notes are moving, and I can identify when the pace slightly changes from my preferred pace.

That was one issue. Another issue was that you senselessly change the slider shapes and angles. It's a problem I never expected to see from you. It's usually the newbie mappers that I have to explain that you shouldn't change the slider shape each and every transition. Pattern alignment and form are also very important to me. In order for a part to be fitting, it must

1. Match the music and sound on-beat.
2. Be presented in an intuitive, and identifiable manner. (You must be able to identify it as a pattern)
3. It should be consistent with surrounding patterns if the beat doesn't change rhythm
4. The pattern matches the overall intended pacing and difficulty in a map.
5. The pattern's context is identifiable in the music (If the music is abstract, the pattern should be abstract, if the musics repeats patterns, the beat should repeat patterns. If the music is calm, the flow should be calm.)
6. You must have a reason to malign a pattern, and it must be done in a way that is visually appealing. (keep in mind that violating this rule does not mean your misaligned sequence is not a flaw. Maligned patterns are flawed patterns and may or may not be fitting.
7. A better pattern does not exist, or an existing flawed pattern can be made more perfect without negatively affecting the flow or stability of other patterns.

A word about the hitsounds. If you do not have a hitsound at the phrase start, then at least in taiko your difficulty will be flawed. I just mentioned it in case it could be feasible to incorporate it into your hitsounds. I didn't have the time or the patience to thoroughly test the hitsound pattern possibilities, so I just left it as an open-ended idea that you could give input on.

My job is not to give bad suggestions. My job is to critique your map, and give ideas that may or may not improve the map. I feel this is the role a MAT should have. There's no sense in just ignoring the things we don't like, because that gives no feedback to the mapper to change it so that it might be more enjoyable. There will always be maps that are incompatible, but I tend to be adamant in the cases that are almost enjoyable. This song was one of those almost there cases. If some of what I say isn't fixable or you choose not to fix it, then it will continue to not be enjoyable to me. That's fine for me, I do not have to play your difficulty, but if it came to ranking it, my opinion would be much more harsh.

If you read all of that, you can probably tell you have inspired me. I will try to inform users ahead of time of my modding approaches in my userpage to prevent further misunderstandings and hopefully inspire others to improve in their modding habits. :)
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
Just a few suggestions. Also testplayed it nomod and with DT and it feels nice

[Insane]

02:19:846 (8) - this is the only stack that has no spacing. Now I've seen every stack so far consisting of 3 notes, so it might even look like this is another triple stack which to some degree can be a bit confusing. In any case it's easier to see that it actually is 5 notes if it has the same spacing as the other stacks.
02:34:846 (5) - move this one grid to the left
03:00:923 (5) - The new combo should technically be here.
Plus the spacing is really irregular compared to how you mapped it earlier 02:35:077 (1) - 01:50:769 (1) - etc.
03:05:076 - I feel it should be a note here in some way or another
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston
@ztrot: My apologies, I wasn't clear in my mod post... I meant to add a note on the blue ticks, not red tick.

Here's what I mean: Turn-'em-round-quick-by-the-right-el-bow [currently the "the" goes unemphasized while everything surrounding it does, which feels a little odd to me]
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