I have seen different opinions on what makes a good taiko spread good. The most popular opinion, which is shared by many BNs/QATs +experienced mappers is that object density defines how good a spread is. Whilst I do think object density is a factor I do not believe it to be what should be looked at the most when judging a spread.

In the beginning of time, the reason why the idea of making a balanced spread was proposed was so that they would be a difficulty for everyone to play around their skill level. And that's what I think spreads should be based off of, skill level. This includes pattern complexity, readability, object density etc. The skill required to play each diff is dependant on many different factors and not just the amount of objects between the difficulties in the spread.

Take this map for example https://osu.ppy.sh/s/630705 . The muzu progresses with an increase in objects with the added difficulty element of mono coloured triples, where as the oni has regular multil coloured triplets/5 note patterns and long multicoloured streams. It was brought up that a difficulty could be added between oni and muzu but was turned down with object density being the justification of the spread . A player can advance from futsuu to muzu within a couple of weeks but would require months for a player to advance from muzu to oni. This is because the level of skill between muzu and oni is far greater than that of futsuu and muzu. However under the common philosophy of many taiko mappers it is considered a balanced spread because of the object density between the diffs alone.

A muzukashii is a very intuitive stepping stone with the main added difficulty element is mono coloured triplets, compared to onis that can has many difficulty elements thrown in at a player. A lot of newer players often find taiko spreads skewed and end up hitting a wall at oni because the oni diffs throws many difficulty elements that require a lot of time investment to learn.

I do believe that defining spreads by the skill level required would be a much better way to go. Opening Modding Assistant and judging solely from object density feels about as arbitrary as judging from another single element in mapping, e.g. hp drain. Thinking more about the level of skill required rather looking at just the amount of objects creates a much healthier spread and allows players to progress more easily.

I'm not trying to say that many mappers are wrong with their current mindsets, but looking at spreads through object density rather than overall complexity is a rather pseudo view on what a good spread really means. What do you think?

edit: changed a typo

For me, the hardest thing in Taiko is not the density, but more the alternate colors, that's why I'm having big issues at playing maps over Muzukashii. And indeed, I kinda feel like there is a difficulty wall between Muzukashii to Oni. I don't know if it really answer your question, but that's my feelings towards Taiko.

Finally someone brings it up. The muzu-oni gap has been an underlying problem in Taiko for a really long time, and it's probably why so many people get to a muzu-level before simply abandoning the gamemode. One problem is that "Oni" is a pretty broad term. When it comes to the Oni of the map you linked I would personally call it an Inner Oni due to the complex streams at around 03:03:012 - . But an Oni can also be filled with patterns as simple as kdddk.

This problem isn't helped by the fact that so many people seem to shudder at the mere thought of a ddk/kkd in their muzukashii, (a very simple, introductory multicolor pattern) even though there's nothing in the ranking criteria saying that it isn't okay.

Another problem is that pattern difficulty is relatively subjective due to different playstyles. A KDDK player may look at something like dddkkddkkkddkk and scream in terror due to the handswitches required, while a DDKK player will scoff and breeze through it like it's nothing.

It's a tough nut to crack but it's good that you bring it up. Hopefully this can spark some discussion.

Kisses wrote:

the level of skill between muzu and oni is far greater than that of futsuu and oni.

did you mean futsuu and muzu?

easy muzu mappers need to l2p or something or maybe they can't because all muzus are way too easy

joking aside I'm very adamant that people are way too scared of hard muzus, some people claim that ddk and kkd isn't allowed even though it is... My ranked muzukashii even includes fivelets and it'd probably get ranked still... anyways if you're reading this please don't tell people to change ddk or kkd to ddd or kkk when the current one makes way more sense musically.

Raphalge wrote:

Kisses wrote:

the level of skill between muzu and oni is far greater than that of futsuu and oni.

did you mean futsuu and muzu?

yh I did, let me edit that real quick

Also I agree with what's written in your post, I hope there can be some amends to the guidelines to the RC, the QAT are pretty hard to persuade with this kind of thing though.

@Trapmaniac Yh I agree with what you say as well. The thing is many of the people that tell you this are higher ups, either BNs or QATs so almost all of the times it's either just change it to appease them or just have your map sit in the graveyard. I know that you shouldn't always make a change you don't agree with but many mappers feel anxious to get their first map ranked or just a set that they really love

"A player can advance from futsuu to muzu within a couple of weeks but would require months for a player to advance from muzu to oni"
just depends on how talented and dedicated the player is, it can easily be way faster.

"I do believe that defining spreads by the skill level required would be a much better way to go"
what does that mean exactly, how can you define a spread with "a required skill level" since the point of the spread is to offer difficulties for several skill levels.

i don't really get the point of your post, it seems to be about changing rules about how to make spreads but there isn't anything in the rules that forces us to map spreads by focusing on having a proportionnal density increase throughout difficulties. you don't get better at the game by playing successively each difficulty from ONE set, you go around and find difficulties that suit your growth. making harder muzus, easier onis, extending spread or whatever won't change anything since those difficulties are already balanced enough from one set to another.

on the "getting better" aspect of taiko i find the spread issue a bit superficial to be honest, if you are really trying to get better at the game the kantan to oni gap is almost trivial. most of the people that seriously play and look for maps that feature what they need will find their "wall" much later.