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Let's talk about Loved.

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Wutever
37 posts
Joined February 2017
Wutever

CircusGalop wrote:

How about introducing user rating system on pending or graveyard maps?

Loved points : The number of raters * (Average of User Rating - 8) * ( 1 + StarPriority*0.05)
Required points for Loved : 350 + 10 * The number of difficulties

WIP maps should be excepted. User rating should be reset when a pending or graveyard map changes to WIP map.


Result
Both many raters and high ratings will be required.
A map under 8 User Rating won't be loved map.
Graveyard maps can also be loved maps.
the advantage of star priority is kept.
i think its absurd how were talking about a category centered around literally unranked popularity ( lets be honest thats what loved means. high critical acclaim.....but mostly popularity thats unranked ) and no one before this guy mentioned user rating where you LITERALLY RATE THE MAP as having any relevance towards anything. this thread is just people projecting their opinions of either i want the kudoso power or how no one should have the kudoso power. i think a combination of favorites and user rating with a small amount of influence. ( key word SMALL ) being given towards the kudoso thing is probably a alright system. i mean factoring in user rating to some degree doesnt seem like a bad idea, though we'd never see something like ikenai borderline get loved again it might also stifle out the completely generic shit or all the jump spam that half the community actually active in this game hates.

the way i see it theres no way in hell were gonna get a "loved" system that pleases everyone. but is it even supposed to? i thought it was for unranked maps that have enough reception and popularity around them to warrant a leader board. its not the systems fault in that case if most of the community just has shitty taste

also +1 to loved maps being maps that are at least 6months-1 year old.
Last edited by Wutever , edited 1 time in total.
PotatoJet
217 posts
Joined December 2016
PotatoJet
How about switch it up? 100 favs and 30 sp? Instead of 100 sp and 30 favs.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

PotatoJet wrote:

How about switch it up? 100 favs and 30 sp? Instead of 100 sp and 30 favs.
I actually suggested both options since 100favs+30sp is primaly for the actual famous maps that are truly loved, while 100sp+30favs are for the mapper who urgently want their map to have a leaderboard. *shrugs*
tatatat
905 posts
Joined March 2015
tatatat
Of course my opinion on this is highly biased, but I think the requirements were fine how they were. Quite a few people including me have already accumulated 100SP on their maps and met the criteria. To reduce the kudosu requirement is to make all that effort a waste. Loved should be an alternative to the ranking criteria, or it should be split into another category. One for maps truly loved by the community, and another category for those who put the time and effort into getting the kudosu and favorites.
Ochasan
522 posts
Joined February 2015
Ochasan
hmm... still looking for a way out of this all
i'm here to summarize what I've read (some posts I forget omg: o)
forgive me for my rough language in English :(

  1. Loved Beatmap is a beatmap beloved by people, chosen for its own reasons (forgot) by everyone.
  2. Loved Beatmap is treated as a side-ranking category, when for various reasons perfectly rankable maps go for loved instead.
  3. Loved Beatmap shouldn't just be an alternative Ranked status. Loved isn't supposed to be a mapping goal, it should just be a place for (unrankable) maps loved by the community to get a scoreboard. That is more like the mapper being narcissistic towards their own map.
  4. Loved Beatmap (still edit and find some argument to solve)
faygo
283 posts
Joined November 2014
faygo

tatatat wrote:

Of course my opinion on this is highly biased, but I think the requirements were fine how they were. Quite a few people including me have already accumulated 100SP on their maps and met the criteria. To reduce the kudosu requirement is to make all that effort a waste. Loved should be an alternative to the ranking criteria, or it should be split into another category. One for maps truly loved by the community, and another category for those who put the time and effort into getting the kudosu and favorites.
while i do not agree that "making all the effort a waste" is a valid argument to keep this current loved system, I think to tackle your problem a solution is that only mapsets which are uploaded after the new loved system took place will need to adhere to the loved requirements. this is similar to how updating the ranking criteria works if im correct
___________________________
my opinion:

+ i think 100fav 30SP would be better cuz at last the osu player community is the dominant one, meaning having SR > fav doesn really reflect the fact that a map is widely loved (+ the fact that 90% players are not mappers nor modders, and therefore probably dont have kudosu to shoot at any maps)

and i think there should be a limit for the amount of stars one can shoot (sorry if its already mentioned i only skimmed over the 10 pages very briefly, like 5 stars per person, this is simply to prevent abuse of this 100fav 30sp requirement
tusoniccc
1 post
Joined June 2016
tusoniccc
Thanks you Osu! for update <3
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu

tatatat wrote:

Of course my opinion on this is highly biased, but I think the requirements were fine how they were. Quite a few people including me have already accumulated 100SP on their maps and met the criteria. To reduce the kudosu requirement is to make all that effort a waste. Loved should be an alternative to the ranking criteria, or it should be split into another category. One for maps truly loved by the community, and another category for those who put the time and effort into getting the kudosu and favorites.
There is an alternative to ranked already; it's called ranked.

If there are no differences between a map in loved and a map in ranked (except for the potentially lower quality due to foregoing the modding process), then there is no reason to have a loved category in the first place, as those maps could just be ranked instead.

If a map can reasonably be changed to fit the ranking criteria, such as mapping additional difficulties, increase the quality of the map etc. it is fit to be ranked, and should not be considered to be loved.

Only maps that for some reason can't be ranked (such as the creator having left the community, or the map is designed around some unrankable concept), where changing it would break the map, should be considered for Loved, and only if said maps are indeed, community loved (how this is indicated can probably be discussed more, I just dislike the notion that "loved is an alternative to ranked". It's not, according to the description, and it shouldn't be.)
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Topic Starter
Ephemeral
Okay, just to tidy this up so as not to mislead people with things - this hasn't been discussed too much internally lately since moddingv2 has not progressed as far.

I believe we're slated to talk about Loved in the upcoming Coffee Hour, so hopefully I can provide some perspective and rationale on the issue in that. It is my hope that we'll sort something out to get Loved back into active duty relatively soon, though. Probably the biggest thing to iron out is the mix of expectations between what Loved should encompass or not.
Wutever
37 posts
Joined February 2017
Wutever
well heres hoping activity resumes. my interpretation of loved as always been the name itself. maps that are unranked for whatever reason that the community loves.

thats exactly what it should be and if the maps are shitty then again i reiterate what i said earlier. its not the systems fault if the community has shitty taste.
The_CJ
141 posts
Joined December 2014
The_CJ
Is there now a way to submit maps for Loved that i can't find or is it still in discussion what is needed to get loved?
-Aerith-
843 posts
Joined March 2015
-Aerith-
100 kds is to much lol . Maybe lowering it to 50 should be enough . And for fav is 100

Right . Simple as that XD
Caput Mortuum
1,854 posts
Joined March 2016
Caput Mortuum
no it's not as simple as that.
Envory
Envory
i though playing loved map will earn bigger PP cause loved ap are for ET player /something like that
or maybe the BN cant play them XD.
Too much star priority for being loved..
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Topic Starter
Ephemeral
To keep people up to date on this, a new voting round based on top-player/prominent player picks has gone out, in line with what was discussed during Coffee Hour.

I'm not yet sure if this is something that will be repeated. Hopefully it will, but I'm fairly set on not being the person behind compiling those lists again after the debacle of the first four votes, and I'd much rather delegate it to engaged players/modders/mappers who have a much wider scope for this sort of stuff than I do.

I can see some form of community voting continue for the near future, though.

That being said, is this the best compromise to have for Loved? A monthly intake purely decided from community vote?
Backfire
3,204 posts
Joined February 2010
Backfire
I think everyone would prefer something more frequently, once a month is really painfully slow.
Arzenvald
4,033 posts
Joined July 2013
Arzenvald
why only osu!taiko that has 3 compiler? it seems to be better approach to collect maps for vote than other modes imo

Backfire wrote:

I think everyone would prefer something more frequently, once a month is really painfully slow.
and yeah, weekly or biweekly votes sounds cool imo
Backfire
3,204 posts
Joined February 2010
Backfire
Bi-Weekly was my idea too, the only problem is people/staff will argue we will run out of maps too quickly or something. Maybe every 3 weeks is more realistic instead, but really I think the threshold thing isn't really necessary either. I think top 5 or something thins out the proper maps better, I think letting stuff over 6% ends up making it so that us voting for it is totally redundant. Put some kind of pressure on the community imo, that's what makes it interesting.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Topic Starter
Ephemeral
The issue with doing this more frequently is having people willing to compile the sets that quickly, mostly.
Backfire
3,204 posts
Joined February 2010
Backfire

Ephemeral wrote:

The issue with doing this more frequently is having people willing to compile the sets that quickly, mostly.
Well I've been around the Taiko community for 7 or so years or so, I can tell you that I am willing to do that for Taiko, at least. It's not honestly been my dream to do something like this for our community, to take part in it, so I'd be willing and open to do it and I could do it by myself or with others.

I think, at the very least, you wouldn't have to struggle with that option for our community, I think a lot of us are qualified. I've done like 5 or 6 taiko tournament map pools, so I have a fairly vast knowledge of maps, and of course lots of opinions on ones that should be loved. If not me, people like Nwolf would probably enjoy doing it as well, so there is no shortage of people here.
Arzenvald
4,033 posts
Joined July 2013
Arzenvald
in that case, not sure which is faster, whether one-person captain or a group of compiler (a-la ranking chart CAT)? i think either one can be faster
uhh..
h3oCharles
1,488 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles
I'd like to propose the following conditions:
- at least 300 favorites
- any diff from the mapset must not autofail (2b, ya know)
- any diff from the mapset must not exceed 12 stars
If you sort all of the unranked maps by favorites, it is clearly visible what maps the community loves
oh, and no Centipede (like what, 48 stars or sth?) and Tewi-ma Park (2B Autofail) for the memers, sorry!
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

h3oCharles wrote:

- any diff from the mapset must not exceed 12 stars
careful with this one. SR is not known to be most accurate. This would destroy any chance of difficult higher keymode mania being loved
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Why are we talking about imposing regulations on the loved section? The entire point is that it isn't subject to normal mapping regulations.
iSInHugs
1 post
Joined December 2017
iSInHugs
cool
- Milhofo -
683 posts
Joined February 2014
- Milhofo -
Why not let people submit their maps anyway, but have the community vote on the submitted maps for a regular time. Obviously people were abusing the star priority factor, but that would be out of the way if no one voted for those maps, and instead voted for the maps that the majority of the community likes.

Voting was always the best option, but I also think the maps up for voting shouldn't be handpicked by a couple of players. Make it like the "Best maps of X year" votings but change the list to users who submitted their maps for loved.

I have a map with over 300 favs in the graveyard and keep getting messages about its state, and I wonder if I'll ever get a chance to even try. Some old maps deserve that chance.
Caput Mortuum
1,854 posts
Joined March 2016
Caput Mortuum

- Milhofo - wrote:

Why not let people submit their maps anyway, but have the community vote on the submitted maps for a regular time. Obviously people were abusing the star priority factor, but that would be out of the way if no one voted for those maps, and instead voted for the maps that the majority of the community likes.

Voting was always the best option, but I also think the maps up for voting shouldn't be handpicked by a couple of players. Make it like the "Best maps of X year" votings but change the list to users who submitted their maps for loved.

I have a map with over 300 favs in the graveyard and keep getting messages about its state, and I wonder if I'll ever get a chance to even try. Some old maps deserve that chance.
im sure people don't even bother looking at the map if they don't know it so the probability of it being rejected is small
-Nephrum-
9 posts
Joined January 2018
-Nephrum-
z
Last edited by -Nephrum- , edited 1 time in total.
StaroaX
209 posts
Joined February 2015
StaroaX
Just wanted to remind you that if we are still gonna try to use sp for anything i think it's better to have the "shoot a kudosu star" button in the moddingV2 page or idk lul

-didn't realize this page is dead but i'll keep this
Last edited by StaroaX , edited 3 times in total.
phyr
148 posts
Joined September 2018
phyr
Is loved completely dead now?
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

_qqpp_ wrote:

Is loved completely dead now?

what
omarha
4 posts
Joined August 2018
omarha
so is there a new thread for this issue or has it just been abandoned altogether?
Death
Technical Support Team
20,476 posts
Joined September 2013
Death
There is an entire Project Loved Subforum and it has its own dedicated channel in the development Discord server where pretty much everything mentioned in this thread has been addressed over the past 2 years since this was posted.
Last edited by Death , edited 1 time in total.
UltraKawaiiRita
1 post
Joined March 2017
UltraKawaiiRita
here, have some material that i would like to get loved:
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1002419#osu/2109225

this has a set of 3 regular modes, 1 taiko mode, and 1 ctb (catch the beat) mode.
Wesular
42 posts
Joined November 2015
Wesular
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1052936#osu/2200415
CursorDance
256 posts
Joined October 2015
CursorDance
beatmapsets/1265715#osu/2630391
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