1. 00:28:416 (28416|0) - Move it on the white thick.
2. 00:28:416 (28416|0,32755|0,32755|2,33130|3,33130|1) - Why the doubles? The sound of the synth is pretty much the same as the single notes around it. (I know, we already talk about that in-game, but I really think you should still try to do it, to put doubles or triples on louder sounds and stuff like that). Since there's a lot of things like that in the diff, I'll just mention them every now and then.
3. 00:32:916 (32916|1,33023|2,33130|1,33130|3) - Move all of those notes up of one thick.
4. 00:34:469 (34469|1) - Delete that note. There's no sound that goes with it.
5. Ok so just that I don't repeat the same things I already said, there's no sounds in 1/8 (except for the end pf some of your LNs until 00:39:932 (and certainly not in 1/16 like this note 00:36:852 (36852|3) - , so you should rearrange your notes and put them only in 1/4, on the blue, red and white thicks.
6. 00:36:933 Again, with that double-triple thing, you could add a triple here since compared to this 00:37:361 (37361|0,37361|3) -, there's a much louder sound.
7. 00:39:932 to 00:40:361 This is in 1/8!
8. 00:43:575 (43575|0,43628|3,43682|1,43789|2,43789|0) - This is also in 1/8.
9. 00:46:146 (46146|2) - Make this at least a double.
10. I'll just say it now, the big majority of your beatmap should be in 1/4. The only part that should be in 1/8 are 02:33:057 to 02:33:486 and from 02:36:485 to 02:36:914. That and end of some of your Lns. Snap everything else in 1/4. Yes, this also means the patterns you did like this 01:37:352 (97352|3,97388|2,97423|1,97459|0,97495|3,97566|1,97602|2,97638|3,97673|0,97727|1,97780|2) - You could replace them by LN.
11. Exception: 01:54:840 (114840|3,114840|1) - and 03:06:829 (186829|2,186829|1) - That, like it want to contradict what I just said, they are in 1/16 like this.
12. 01:29:532 (89532|2) - Delete that note.
13. 01:28:353 (88353|0,88782|3) - Those LNs, shouldn't they be more like that, because the sound that would go with them are there.
14. 02:09:061 (129061|1,129168|0,129275|3,129383|1) - There's no reason to change the pattern here. Do this just like you were doing before.
15. 02:12:168 (132168|2) - This should be a simple note and I'm not sure about that Ln 02:12:489 (132489|0) -, feels weird.
16. 02:15:489 Try to make a pattern similar to the previous one or vice-versa.
17. 02:25:773 (145773|1) - This should be a LN it should be simple notes. One at the start and one at the end (maybe not in the same column, tho).
18. 02:29:094 Again, try to be more consistent in your patterns.
19. 02:39:512 (159512|2) - ? I don't know if that's intentional, but it's clearly misnapped. Start the LN on the white thick.
20. 02:39:914 (159914|3) - Make that Ln as long as this one 02:39:914 (159914|1) -
21. 02:40:235 (160235|2) - Delete that note.
22. 03:17:140 (197140|1) - ^
23. 03:23:192 The Lns from this time, they don't really make sense. You should just replace them by Lns that start at this time and ends at the end of the beatmap.

abraker wrote:

_Stronger_ wrote:

First things first, add hitsounds!!!

Not really necessary. Imo maps are played better w/o them unless it's a 100% hitsounded map
Hitsounds are necessary if you are aiming for rank, ranking criteria says that all maps have to be fully hitsounded

_Stronger_ wrote:

Ok
00:28:416 (28416|0) - Move it on the white thick.

Burst stream. I want there to be an accelerated flow there
00:28:416 (28416|0,32755|0,32755|2,33130|3,33130|1) - Why the doubles? The sound of the synth is pretty much the same as the single notes around it. (I know, we already talk about that in-game, but I really think you should still try to do it, to put doubles or triples on louder sounds and stuff like that). Since there's a lot of things like that in the diff, I'll just mention them every now and then.
The map version i have does not have any burst streams as you mentioned, aslo you should add a double or single note at 00:28:639 - because you missed a sound there

This will be quite destroying the design. I see that the notes are off-sync because of it, but I really want the 1/8 offset there for the flow. Imo it plays fine like that, tho I need a better mapper's advice if I am to somehow keep the flow and make it sync
00:32:916 (32916|1,33023|2,33130|1,33130|3) - Move all of those notes up of one thick.
ALL NOTES MUST BE PERFECTLY TIMES, you could always change the design of the map, here is one for an example click
Such the nature of dumps. Problem with less experienced players is they haven't gotten to the point where they play enough dump maps to know that there are styles of mapping that just have notes even if there are no sounds, mixed with 1/8,1/6,1/12, etc snapping which make no sense until you actually play it. And that is if you are advanced enough to be able to play it.
00:34:469 (34469|1) - Delete that note. There's no sound that goes with it.
I must agree with stronger here, You MUST delete that note because there is NO sound that supports it and all notes must be supported by a sound
Ok so just that I don't repeat the same things I already said, there's no sounds in 1/8 (except for the end pf some of your LNs until 00:39:932 (and certainly not in 1/16 like this note 00:36:852 (36852|3) - , so you should rearrange your notes and put them only in 1/4, on the blue, red and white thicks.
00:36:933 Again, with that double-triple thing, you could add a triple here since compared to this 00:37:361 (37361|0,37361|3) -, there's a much louder sound.

So? It's a drum roll. Does 1/8 scare you so much?
00:39:932 to 00:40:361 This is in 1/8!
You should map that drumroll, exsample click

Buildup and accelerated flow
00:43:575 (43575|0,43628|3,43682|1,43789|2,43789|0) - This is also in 1/8.
Flow should be okay with 1/8 pattern too

That will be a hard read and make no sense. There is a 1/4 hold note right there and make the 12 finger motion at that spot is when you are trying to map out a beat is just wrong.
00:46:146 (46146|2) - Make this at least a double.
It wouldn't be hard to read if you add a note at column 2, it plays perfectly fine

Already explained this. This map should be rated around 4.4* btw, it's heavily underrated
I'll just say it now, the big majority of your beatmap should be in 1/4. The only part that should be in 1/8 are 02:33:057 to 02:33:486 and from 02:36:485 to 02:36:914. That and end of some of your Lns. Snap everything else in 1/4. Yes, this also means the patterns you did like this 01:37:352 (97352|3,97388|2,97423|1,97459|0,97495|3,97566|1,97602|2,97638|3,97673|0,97727|1,97780|2) - You could replace them by LN.
Exception: 01:54:840 (114840|3,114840|1) - and 03:06:829 (186829|2,186829|1) - That, like it want to contradict what I just said, they are in 1/16 like this.
1/8 mapping gets a bigger SR so you should listen to stronger's suggestion

While there is no double beat, I am forcing there to be one
01:29:532 (89532|2) - Delete that note.
You cant force something that is not there, you should remove the not because there is no sound that follows it

True, but then those double taps are going to be harder than it is enjoyable. I value playability over consistency.
01:28:353 (88353|0,88782|3) - Those LNs, shouldn't they be more like that, because the sound that would go with them are there.
no idea what both of you said here

Got boring. You need at least some variance, and why note make some when the new sound gets added in?
02:09:061 (129061|1,129168|0,129275|3,129383|1) - There's no reason to change the pattern here. Do this just like you were doing before.
thats unconsistent and if you are planing to rank this mape apply Stronger's suggestion because map wont get ranked if there is no consistency on the patterns

Yes you are the second player who said that. More advanced players have no problem with this.
02:12:168 (132168|2) - This should be a simple note and I'm not sure about that Ln 02:12:489 (132489|0) -, feels weird.
Meybe advanced players have no problems with that, but QAT and BN members have

Which one?
02:15:489 Try to make a pattern similar to the previous one or vice-versa.
He was saying that its not consistent and he was talking about this previous pattern 02:12:061 -

???
02:25:773 (145773|1) - This should be a LN it should be simple notes. One at the start and one at the end (maybe not in the same column, tho).
he was talking about this
That what makes the current mapping meta suck so much lol. You look too much at the editor instead the enjoyability of playing it
02:29:094 Again, try to be more consistent in your patterns.
[b]You need consistent patterns or the map wont get ranked as I said before, you can always re-arange the notes but you must have the similar pattern for consistency

Yea that look interesting. I might have done that on purpose, but I can't remember what for, so fixed now.
02:39:512 (159512|2) - ? I don't know if that's intentional, but it's clearly misnapped. Start the LN on the white thick.

Nope, just look at that beautiful pattern with the single notes 1/8 snap to the left of each
02:39:914 (159914|3) - Make that Ln as long as this one 02:39:914 (159914|1) -
02:40:235 (160235|2) - Delete that note.
that pattern is actully very ugly and weird to play

And the other similiar patterns before this like at 03:13:712 (193712|2) - and 03:10:284 (190284|2) - ?
03:17:140 (197140|1) - ^

Yea I agree, but you suggest is too plain. Need something better than that.
03:23:192 The Lns from this time, they don't really make sense. You should just replace them by Lns that start at this time and ends at the end of the beatmap.
I wont even say anything about this

abraker wrote:

Umo- wrote:

Hitsounds are necessary if you are aiming for rank, ranking criteria says that all maps have to be fully hitsounded

Please give link to this rule.
https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Criteria Check in Audio, the fifth point.

Umo- wrote:

This will be quite destroying the design. I see that the notes are off-sync because of it, but I really want the 1/8 offset there for the flow. Imo it plays fine like that, tho I need a better mapper's advice if I am to somehow keep the flow and make it sync
00:32:916 (32916|1,33023|2,33130|1,33130|3) - Move all of those notes up of one thick.
ALL NOTES MUST BE PERFECTLY TIMES, you could always change the design of the map, here is one for an example click

From the mania ranking rules in here:

Every note must be clearly assignable to a musical layer or layer unit it tries to represent. This may either be the exact placement of noises within this layer or the silhouette of its movement, and it may be an attempt to replicate the noise behavior either visually or to make the player execute the motion that would paint the layer or layer unit as its best.

The pattern falls under the bolded part
This doesn't mean that you can misnap notes, the part about replicating the noise behavior is for when the sound wouldn't fit with the timing, for example, in live performance due to the human error. In your beatmap, the sounds clearly are in 1/4. Take any ranked beatmap, then move the offset 10 seconds later or select all the notes and move them of one thick. Would it still be in a rankable state? No, obviously.

Umo- wrote:

I must agree with stronger here, You MUST delete that note because there is NO sound that supports it and all notes must be supported by a sound
Ok so just that I don't repeat the same things I already said, there's no sounds in 1/8 (except for the end pf some of your LNs until 00:39:932 (and certainly not in 1/16 like this note 00:36:852 (36852|3) - , so you should rearrange your notes and put them only in 1/4, on the blue, red and white thicks.
00:36:933 Again, with that double-triple thing, you could add a triple here since compared to this 00:37:361 (37361|0,37361|3) -, there's a much louder sound.

Refer to the rule I quoted. Also I play that pattern perfectly fine every time, nothing there trips me up.
I repeat what I just said. You can't add notes on no sound. EVEN if it's playable.

Umo- wrote:

So? It's a drum roll. Does 1/8 scare you so much?
00:39:932 to 00:40:361 This is in 1/8!
You should map that drumroll, exsample click

The use of interchanging 1/4 snaps for both hands makes the 1/8 pattern: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8897746
I can change it to what you propose, but I just want to a better argument than that. Try to speak in terms of a player playing the pattern instead of a mapper looking in the editor trying to match notes and sounds 1:1
Well here, I really was just saying that there was sounds in 1/8 for those entire 429 milliseconds that you could add notes on. Nothing else.

Umo- wrote:

Buildup and accelerated flow
00:43:575 (43575|0,43628|3,43682|1,43789|2,43789|0) - This is also in 1/8.
Flow should be okay with 1/8 pattern too

Just want to make sure we are looking at the same thing: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8897778
There is a 1/8 roll there, but a slow it down for the longer synth at the very end and to have a better transition into those alternations with hold notes
If you say so, I guess

Umo- wrote:

Already explained this. This map should be rated around 4.4* btw, it's heavily underrated
I'll just say it now, the big majority of your beatmap should be in 1/4. The only part that should be in 1/8 are 02:33:057 to 02:33:486 and from 02:36:485 to 02:36:914. That and end of some of your Lns. Snap everything else in 1/4. Yes, this also means the patterns you did like this 01:37:352 (97352|3,97388|2,97423|1,97459|0,97495|3,97566|1,97602|2,97638|3,97673|0,97727|1,97780|2) - You could replace them by LN.
Exception: 01:54:840 (114840|3,114840|1) - and 03:06:829 (186829|2,186829|1) - That, like it want to contradict what I just said, they are in 1/16 like this.
1/8 mapping gets a bigger SR so you should listen to stronger's suggestion

I am not aiming for higher SR
My point here was that you HAVE to snap your notes correctly, for the same reason as previously mentioned. And I just pointed out which part of your song could be mapped in 1/8 and which one couldn't.

Umo- wrote:

While there is no double beat, I am forcing there to be one
01:29:532 (89532|2) - Delete that note.
You cant force something that is not there, you should remove the not because there is no sound that follows it

Here are a couple examples that work great with no sounds following it:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/560731
00:41:446 (41446|3,41446|2,41618|1,41789|0,41789|3,41961|0,42132|2,42132|1,42303|1,42475|3,42475|0,42646|2,42818|3,42818|0,42818|1) -
*_Stronger_ slaps his face
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1008551
A lot of this map
*_Stronger_ slaps his face again
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1015659
The entire map
*_Stronger_ slaps his face for a third time
And I argue they work great because of how the rhythmic tapping and finger flow of that pattern works. You have the double tap which then flows into the hold note in the 2,2,1 or 3,3,4 motion, and the hold note ends early enough to let the player prepare for the next double tap. And it tricks the player into thinking all of those parts have the double beating throughout the coarse of the pattern, which works in its favor.
Tell me, are any of the beatmap you linked are ranked?

Umo- wrote:

True, but then those double taps are going to be harder than it is enjoyable. I value playability over consistency.
01:28:353 (88353|0,88782|3) - Those LNs, shouldn't they be more like that, because the sound that would go with them are there.
no idea what both of you said here

I believe he wanted to make the LN longer, but I am not sure myself.
Like I said in my post just above, I wanted to add a link to the word "that" but forgot to do it.

Umo- wrote:

Got boring. You need at least some variance, and why note make some when the new sound gets added in?
02:09:061 (129061|1,129168|0,129275|3,129383|1) - There's no reason to change the pattern here. Do this just like you were doing before.
thats unconsistent and if you are planing to rank this mape apply Stronger's suggestion because map wont get ranked if there is no consistency on the patterns

I think the pattern change is justified.
Not really, but hey, this isn't so bad, even if i still stick to my point.

Umo- wrote:

Yes you are the second player who said that. More advanced players have no problem with this.
02:12:168 (132168|2) - This should be a simple note and I'm not sure about that Ln 02:12:489 (132489|0) -, feels weird.
Meybe advanced players have no problems with that, but QAT and BN members have

SR shouldn't dictate what is acceptable in a map. If it plays nice, it place nice. This is not meant to be a 3.5* and I am not going to force myself to increase the SR just to make it higher. Don't let the poorly made algorithm dictate how a map should be.
Well that poorly algorithm doesn't have anything to do with what me or umo- tried to tell you. It's not because it is hard to play that I pointed out those Lns, but because they felt weird to play. And yes, if bn and QAT have a problem with that, you really should consider my point.

Umo- wrote:

You need consistent patterns or the map wont get ranked as I said before, you can always re-arange the notes but you must have the similar pattern for consistency

Alright in regards to consistency. Yes, maps need to be consistent when mapping sounds and such. It would make sense to use a hold note for a sound and then a single note for the same sound a second later. I becomes weird when using a completely different pattern structure for a similar motif. However, those LN going back and forth are going to get boring after some time. The closest area where it makes sense to change things up a bit is when the no sound gets introduced at 02:09:490 which is more dominant than the sounds coming before it due it being louder and sounding like a triangle wave or some equivalent. I then follow that sound instead. If you can come up with a pattern that doesn't make it boring as I described, be my guest.
Idk what else to say then you should do as umo- said, doing a similar patterns isn't that boring, if you ask me.

Umo- wrote:

Nope, just look at that beautiful pattern with the single notes 1/8 snap to the left of each
02:39:914 (159914|3) - Make that Ln as long as this one 02:39:914 (159914|1) -
02:40:235 (160235|2) - Delete that note.
that pattern is actully very ugly and weird to play