So, in the osu!catch ranking criteria currently, there is this rule.

1. Basic hyperdashes (1/1, 1/2) may begin to appear, but must not be used in conjunction with each other. Platters should serve as an introduction to hyperdashing, meaning strong hypers (e.g. 1.5x above the trigger distance) and hypers combined with antiflow patterns must not be used. 1/3 and 1/4 hyperdashes may be used singularly (not in conjunction with other dashes or hyperdashes) if the BPM is less than 120.

The first part of this is fully reasonable, and up until the last sentence, keeping this as a rule seems logical, and even ideal, to keep this difficulty as an introduction to HDashes. However, the last sentence seems very strict, both as a direct number, and also with no words on usage. Whilst the previous sentence says "hypers combined with antiflow patterns must not be used", this still allows for many kinds of HDash movement, however once you get to a 121bpm 1/4 HDash, no matter how it's used, it's disallowed. This seems pretty strange to me, especially considering the reasoning behind this is disallowing difficult HDash movement through the speed of a HDash, but cases where you're making the movement perfect for the momentum of the HDash aren't allowed past this number. I understand why this is in the ranking criteria, however I believe having it as a rule is too harsh.

This case gets even worse when you consider that 1/3 HDashes and 1/4 HDashes are on the same scale here. So for example, a 1/4 HDash is allowed at 119bpm, however a 1/3 HDash isn't allowed at 121bpm, despite the fact the 1/3 HDash is actually slower movement there. Of course this is an edge case, and is an exception, not the norm, but that doesn't change the fact that it does happen, and I've been told the reasoning to this is to make understanding when you can use these HDashes simpler for people, however in my opinion it'd make a lot more sense to add in the number at which 1/3 HDashes are at the same speed as 1/4 HDashes at 120bpm.

My main example for this type of situation, and how it could be changed is this map. It shouldn't have been rankable due to 1/6 HDashes at 67bpm, however, I felt as though the way these 1/6 HDashes were used were fine, and there were a few that weren't, but where the movement was changed. The cases where these HDashes weren't fine, in my eyes, were due to quick speed changes, or due to direction changes, and so those cases got changed, and those are actually what this rule stands to prevent. But straight out banning the usage of these when it's not exactly their usage, but the movement after their usage which is important, seems highly limiting and nonsensical.

My proposed solution would be to take the last sentence off the current rule, and change it to a guideline, such as this:

1. The usage of hyperdashes at 1/4 intervals should be avoided if the BPM is higher than 120. If they are used, movement afterwards should follow the direction of the hyperdash, and should allow for a slow recovery time.

Of course, wording could be added in to explain 1/3 as well, however I wasn't really sure how to add that in, but I'm sure someone can think of something there, as this wording is of course not final.

Have to agree here. On my set for Poke Mart, there were 1/6 hyperdashes on Olib's Platter which are considered unrankable by the RC. In order to keep the map at a platter difficulty, extra 1/3 hyperdashes had to be introduced.
This rule negatively affected the set because some of the most important sounds couldn't use an h-dash to properly emphasise the song, and adding in 1/3 dashes affected the general structure because it required the flow to be setup for a full screen jump, which are hard to do.
The same issue is on Ascendance's diff and would have required a remap to fix, but we just renamed it to light rain to solve this issue. That said, not everyone will have this option available.
It would have been almost impossible to create a 'Platter' diff that has a good spread to a rain without having easy 1/6 hypers

That + PP jumps are rankable on rain, and it really isn't good in terms of learning playability. Jumping from no 1/4s allowed to potentially the image below is kind of silly
woops correct link

@Sinnoh your link to pokemart links directly to this thread lol. Also, your usage of the terminology "PP Jumps" isn't really appropriate for a discussion that can alter ranking criteria boundaries. Completely irrelevant

If this change goes into effect, I think there really needs to be a proper outline of what is acceptable or not. Too many times, people (myself included) are abusing rules of the RC, such as the antiflow hyperdashes rule, because they are completely unclear and easily misinterpreted. 9 times out of 10, I forget the rule even exists and nothing even gets said about it. That being said, even though my map is a pretty good identifier of what would be acceptable, maybe a couple picture images for those who don't know what they're looking for would be helpful.

The recovery time also needed to be defined certainly. for example 2/1 in 120~239 bpm, and 4/1 in 240~480 bpm

There won't be any change for the 1/4 Hyperdash but we consider changing the upper limit of the 1/3s. At the moment this is under discussion so I can say nothing more at the moment.

I think the rule currently for 1/4 is fine as it is but I changes for 1/3 should be made. Many maps in the BPM 120 to 140 range can usually use 1/3 hypers in Platters and still be playable for beginners to hypers while 1/4 is still a bit too fast for beginners. However, if the rule for 1/4 must be changed, then i would say BPM 130 to 135 should be the maximum of increase to allow hypers because at 140 the hypers become definitively sharper than at 135.
I don't have any example maps unless I mapped one myself to make my point but from my experience as a mapper and the frustration of mapping songs within 120 to 140 bpm (as well as fellow community members)

Similar to songs BPM 80 and below (and the map Mbomb used as example) , I've seen 1/6 hypers play fine for Platters as long as antiflow is not used.

CLSW wrote:

The recovery time also needed to be defined certainly. for example 2/1 in 120~239 bpm, and 4/1 in 240~480 bpm

Hmm, if I'm understanding what you mean correctly I agree with you, which is what I'll try to explain in the following example.

There are certain cases where I see reasons that are quite clear to not have to follow the 1/4 HDash rule, mostly due to reaction time after the jump. My main example for this is a map where the mapper originally changed it to a normal dash, but it sounds and plays a lot better as a HDash, and it should be fine due to a 149bpm 4/1 reaction time between the HDash and the next note. This map, at 01:00:336 - . It feels so underemphasised to leave that pattern as a normal dash, and whilst it'd be understandable if it was in the middle of a rhythmically intense part as well, it is not, there's just a strong note on it's own, which makes it stand out even more. Usually I'd be in agreement of this stuff not being allowed, but there is over 1.5 seconds between the HDash and the next note, which makes it sound so strange to me.

Also if you're going to try to advance this HDash rule for Platter, please consider to advance 1/8 HDash usages in Rain difficulty either

1/8 Hyperdash rule won't be changed on Rain either.

A 1/6 snap can give the same effect a 1/8 would have for change in hyper speed, no need to change 1/8.

Hi everybody! After some internal discussion, we've come to agreement with respect to the contents of the proposal but not as much with the form, as some members of the team consider the wording to be a bit complex. For this reason, we think it's best to subject this to the opinion of the community, and hear your feedback. Without further ado, we propose the following changes and additions:

In the changes mentioned above, the BPM limit has been made dependant on the snap, keeping the current 120 BPM limit for 1/4 HDashes (in Platters) and 1/8 HDashes (in Rains). Furthermore, higher snaps (1/6 and onwards in Platters, and 1/12 and 1/16 in Rains) are now allowed under low BPM conditions.

NOTE: There'll be a limited time to post your feedback in these threads, so make sure to do it until the 4th August at 23:59 UTC. There'll be a period of couple of days afterwards where the council will deliberate and adjust the draft to the recieved input from the community.

A little update:

In order to push these last changes into the wiki, some further changes have been done so the explanations are more clear: Instead of working with a new concept as Equivalent BPM, we'll just go for the real distance in miliseconds:

The rule changes have been amended and the wiki article has been updated. Changes will be effective from this time on to all submitted beatmaps that aren't qualified/ranked yet.