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Porno Graffitti - THE DAY

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Natsu

Kagetsu wrote:

Natsu wrote:

Yeah but under your logic then there shouldn't be hard easy and normal diffs xD, snapping can be simplified for the sake of playability, for example 1/16 repeats can cause alot of breaks and also u don't want to throw 1/8 circle streams at high bpm, this has been an acceptable way of mapping lol.
uh, this isn't an easy or normal diff so what's the point of undermapping things xd
that following the music that close can sometimes cause issues in the playability, which I believe can be the case here.
Kagetsu

Natsu wrote:

that following the music that close can sometimes cause issues in the playability, which I believe can be the case here.
it follows the music, just in a bad way tho... there are better options to map those rhythms, using the wrong option is just lack of quality, at least to me.
anyways, i'm out... i think i won't change your opinion xdd... so this discussion is leading to nothing
Monstrata
Why is the preview point not the chorus xddd
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox

Monstrata wrote:

Why is the preview point not the chorus xddd
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER
riffy
Let's take a moment to discuss the snapping. I see no reason not to use 1/8 sliders, or 1/16 slider (as long as they're playable). The point about snapping seems to be valid, so... Disqualified.
Natsu
call me back after you explain the 1/4s or u make changes
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox
I'll explain my reasoning for doing the snapping the way it's done, and why I will keep it the same:

1) First of all were talking strictly about the extra diff here. I'm sure we all can agree that a stream adds more difficulty in a map than a 1/8 or 1/16 single repeat slider. So to fulfill the role of being an extra, it would be more reasonable to use the harder solution here since it does fit the music and is an easy to understand rhythmwise aswell while playing the song

2) Now to elaborate on that note a bit further; no, the hardest solution possible isn't always the best one, but in this case it is much more fitting than a repeat slider which follows the music more closely, but at the same time is being completely underwhelming with it's difficulty

3) For why I decided to map the streams instead of only following guitar and using long sliders is partly connected to my previous reasons but for the most part it has to do with the great presence that the piano has on the parts. It would be weird to only use long sliders that follow the long guitar sounds well while ignoring the piano, instead of trying to map the piano sounds into the most appropriate and enjoyable way to play them, which are streams in my opinion in this case. I can see why you'd find 00:25:613 (5,6,7) - particularly worthy of pointing out, but since this is a rhythm game, ending the stream on a blue tick would not be the most optimal solution here in my opinion. Thus I decided to extend it on it's own to a more easy to follow and fun to play rhythm that is made up entirely by me, but still fitting the part and the song nonetheless.

4) Following my experience from the playtests and the 4 day period that everyone has had to play on the qualified version, I've had only one complaint about the streams from the user who posted on this thread, but no one else has atleast publically spoken of them being unfitting. What I can take away from this is that people find it natural to play for the most part as intended and have no complaints. This further proves why I feel like my actions are justified and why there is no need for anything to be changed.

I hope this helped explain my thought process a little bit :)
Kagetsu

ProfessionalBox wrote:

2) Now to elaborate on that note a bit further; no, the hardest solution possible isn't always the best one, but in this case it is much more fitting than a repeat slider which follows the music more closely, but at the same time is being completely underwhelming with it's difficulty
i'm not saying that you should remove the streams, there are ways to map 1/6 or 1/8 sounds using little kicksliders and it plays exactly like a normal stream, it just fits better .


ProfessionalBox wrote:

3) For why I decided to map the streams instead of only following guitar and using long sliders is partly connected to my previous reasons but for the most part it has to do with the great presence that the piano has on the parts. It would be weird to only use long sliders that follow the long guitar sounds well while ignoring the piano, instead of trying to map the piano sounds into the most appropriate and enjoyable way to play them, which are streams in my opinion in this case. I can see why you'd find 00:25:613 (5,6,7) - particularly worthy of pointing out, but since this is a rhythm game, ending the stream on a blue tick would not be the most optimal solution here in my opinion. Thus I decided to extend it on it's own to a more easy to follow and fun to play rhythm that is made up entirely by me, but still fitting the part and the song nonetheless.
i agree with you on the point of extending the stream until 00:25:613 - but 00:25:693 (6) - this note sounds defenitily overmapped to me because the piano already stopped

ProfessionalBox wrote:

4) Following my experience from the playtests and the 4 day period that everyone has had to play on the qualified version, I've had only one complaint about the streams from the user who posted on this thread, but no one else has atleast publically spoken of them being unfitting. What I can take away from this is that people find it natural to play for the most part as intended and have no complaints. This further proves why I feel like my actions are justified and why there is no need for anything to be changed.
playtests aren't a good indicator, i actually can play overmapped things like this, there are many streams practice maps that many people can perfectly play, but it doesn't mean that they're correctly mapped.


edit: the stream is still 1/6 to me (bb code is hard)
pkhg
  • the piano is clearly 1/6 imo
    the map being a extra doesnt mean that you must choose the hardest thing
  1. 00:24:161 (2) - you used a slider instead of mapping the triplet which starts on the redtick but you said about using something that adds more difficulty to the map because its an extra
  2. 00:35:371 (3) - thats overmapped
  3. 00:45:774 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - overmapped too http://puu.sh/pIJw5/02550700c2.jpg
  4. 01:22:629 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1) - its really weird the lack of hitsounds here
  5. 01:23:355 (2,3,4,5) - this is misplaced. ctrl g it
  6. 01:25:371 - why you ignored this?
    move the preview point 1/4 later so you only hear "the day has come". currently you can hear a "da" before it so better moving it

    the kiai dont have any 1/4 at all except from 01:22:548 (1) -
i suggest to change at least the bold ones
just looked at plus ultra so you can carry those to the other diffs
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox

Kagetsu wrote:

i'm not saying that you should remove the streams, there are ways to map 1/6 or 1/8 sounds using little kicksliders and it plays exactly like a normal stream, it just fits better .
As I previously stated I have no intentions of changing them. And what you suggested in the picture is something that I personally hate in mapping

Kagetsu wrote:

i agree with you on the point of extending the stream until 00:25:613 - but 00:25:693 (6) - this note sounds defenitily overmapped to me because the piano already stopped
I know that it is overmapped like I said, and I explained why.

Kagetsu wrote:

playtests aren't a good indicator, i actually can play overmapped things like this, there are many streams practice maps that many people can perfectly play, but it doesn't mean that they're correctly mapped.
If people felt like it was unfitting they would have pointed it out, that's the point of playtesting.

pkhg wrote:

the piano is clearly 1/6 imo
the map being a extra doesnt mean that you must choose the hardest thing
Did you even read the second point I mentioned? Also thanks for the correction with the piano, but it won't change the fact that I won't be making them into sliders / repeat sliders for the reasons I mentioned.

pkhg wrote:

00:24:161 (2) - you used a slider instead of mapping the triplet which starts on the redtick but you said about using something that adds more difficulty to the map because its an extra This could be a triple indeed, but after thinking about it for a while I decided to keep it as it is since I'm really pleased with 00:24:161 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2) - section as a whole, and making it a triple would force me to remap parts of this.
00:35:371 (3) - thats overmapped This is intentional
00:45:774 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - overmapped too http://puu.sh/pIJw5/02550700c2.jpg So is this
01:22:629 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1) - its really weird the lack of hitsounds here I touched the hitsounding here with the mod from Natsu refer to that
01:23:355 (2,3,4,5) - this is misplaced. ctrl g it This is not misplaced, it's exactly how I ment for it to be with the circular flow from 01:23:355 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1) -
01:25:371 - why you ignored this The sound is not loud enough to be considered a must to map. I made it a circle since I wanted to have this pattern work 01:25:129 (4,1) - because it represents the music well imo
I do understand that not everyone likes overmapping but overmapping in moderation can make a map feel more personal to whoever created it. I have considered every object in my head and how it would fit the song to put them there. I think it presents the freedom and creativeness that I have as a mapper and why I'm allowed to do so as long as it is reasonable.

Also my apologies if the reply sounds negative. That's not my intention at all 8-)
Kagetsu
uh... from what i'm understanding you won't change the streams just because 1/4 is more comfortably to play?
so, should we map the 1/3 streams as 1/4 just because of that? i guess the answer is pretty obvious here, the snapping is just wrong and it should be fixed... you can always take the more comfortably option to make your maps, but you should ask yourself if the way that you are choosing is fitting the music, because i think that's the whole point behind of making a beatmap, otherwise, it would just be random notes without any sense.
pkhg

pkhg wrote:

00:45:774 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - overmapped too http://puu.sh/pIJw5/02550700c2.jpg So is this > there are actually 1/4 beats where i placed the circles not like yours
01:23:355 (2,3,4,5) - this is misplaced. ctrl g it This is not misplaced, it's exactly how I ment for it to be with the circular flow from 01:23:355 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1) - > with misplaced i mean theres a 1/4 beat 01:23:597 - but you just ignored it and placed a circle where arent any 174 beats which is 01:23:435 (3)
just be more carefull when hearing. im really sure about those 1/4s

also move the preview point 1/4 later so you only hear "the day has come". currently you can hear a "da" before it so better moving it
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox

Kagetsu wrote:

uh... from what i'm understanding you won't change the streams just because 1/4 is more comfortably to play?
so, should we map the 1/3 streams as 1/4 just because of that? i guess the answer is pretty obvious here, the snapping is just wrong and it should be fixed... you can always take the more comfortably option to make your maps, but you should ask yourself if the way that you are choosing is fitting the music, because i think that's the whole point behind of making a beatmap, otherwise, it would just be random notes without any sense.
The reason that I want to keep them as 1/4 is that

1) 1/6 streams would be too hard
2) 1/6 repeats would be too underwhelming
3) 1/6 sliderstreams as in the picture you showed are something I dislike and don't want to include them in my mapping
4) The 1/4 fits the part well and is the optimal solution to following the piano sounds when the intention is to map the sounds as a stream

If this truly was a major issue and something that needed to be fixed like you said, then wouldn't you think that the modders and beatmap nominators included in the ranking process would have forced me to change them already? The streams will stay as 1/4 since it's not an unrankable issue and presents the way I want for them to be.

pkhg wrote:

with misplaced i mean theres a 1/4 beat 01:23:597 - but you just ignored it and placed a circle where arent any 174 beats which is 01:23:435 (3)
Oh now I see, I'll change this since I agree with what you are trying to suggest

pkhg wrote:

also move the preview point 1/4 later so you only hear "the day has come". currently you can hear a "da" before it so better moving it
This I agree with also, will do
Kagetsu

ProfessionalBox wrote:

Kagetsu wrote:

uh... from what i'm understanding you won't change the streams just because 1/4 is more comfortably to play?
so, should we map the 1/3 streams as 1/4 just because of that? i guess the answer is pretty obvious here, the snapping is just wrong and it should be fixed... you can always take the more comfortably option to make your maps, but you should ask yourself if the way that you are choosing is fitting the music, because i think that's the whole point behind of making a beatmap, otherwise, it would just be random notes without any sense.
The reason that I want to keep them as 1/4 is that

1) 1/6 streams would be too hard
2) 1/6 repeats would be too underwhelming
3) 1/6 sliderstreams as in the picture you showed are something I dislike and don't want to include them in my mapping
4) The 1/4 fits the part well and is the optimal solution to following the piano sounds when the intention is to map the sounds as a stream

If this truly was a major issue and something that needed to be fixed like you said, then wouldn't you think that the modders and beatmap nominators included in the ranking process would have forced me to change them already? The streams will stay as 1/4 since it's not an unrankable issue and presents the way I want for them to be.
in fact, as i said, KittyAdventure pointed something about the stream, he was not quite right imo... but, you should at least have replied him properly.
and about the snapping thing being not a unrankable issue... well, i do remember this case when this map had a wrong snapping and it got dq (a huge discussion started from there lol)
uhm... i think that me giving more points about this will not change your opinion about the stream anyways, so i would like if you could receive some feedback from other people about the snapping issue.
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox
Opinions from multiple mappers / players

chatlog from discussion in #modhelp
11:08 Kagetsu: hey guys... what do you think about [https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5263232 these points]? the map just got dq xd
11:09 Kagetsu: i would like some feedback so he can requalify his map the most quick possible
11:09 Arcubin: r u hot?
11:09 Kagetsu: kinda
11:09 Kagetsu: you got me
11:10 CptBlackBird: hot
11:14 pkhg: lo
11:15 CptBlackBird: l
11:16 Chaos: Kagetsu: not everything has to be exactly mapped to the sounds that are occurring
11:16 Chaos: I can't look at that particular map atm but that's just my 2c on the principle
11:17 Kagetsu: well, i agree with you on that xd but should we map 1/4 streams as 1/6 just because it is more comfortably to play? lol
11:17 Arcubin: how is that happen?
11:17 Arcubin: 1/6 gives more strain
11:17 Arcubin: sorry, just online
11:18 Kagetsu: i personally think that if you are intended to map a sound then you should map it the closest way possible
11:18 Kagetsu: ehr
11:18 Kagetsu: [https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5263232 check this] Arcubin
11:18 Chaos: I disagree
11:19 Chaos: this is still a game, not a music imitation exercise
11:19 pkhg: uh
11:19 pkhg: its a 'rhythm' game
11:19 Chaos: if the stream(s) in question don't properly follow a specific snap throughout its duration and there is no reasonable way to represent it, then I don't see the inherent issue with making it more consistent at the price of losing a bit of accuracy
11:20 Kagetsu: thing is that there are better ways to do it
11:22 Chaos: are you referring to the piano glissando before the first verse?
11:22 Kagetsu: yep
11:25 Chaos: hmm. can't really give a proper opinion without looking at the map
11:26 Chaos: but I can see where somebody would take issue with how I believe this is mapped at present
11:27 Kagetsu: well... it's a piano glissando as you said, mapped as a 1/4 stream
11:28 Chaos: I don't see why not map something like that with say a repeating slider as a high spaced jump
11:28 CptBlackBird: I might be blind but I didn't see any problem when playing it
11:28 Chaos: or a fast slider, or something like that
11:28 Kagetsu: it's not a problem of playibility imo
11:28 Chaos: glissandos by nature won't really follow a rhythm
11:28 pkhg: mythologias end is entirely overmapped an its still playable
11:28 Kagetsu: it's how the music it's represented
11:29 Kagetsu: the stream is playable, but it doesn't represent the music, that's my opinion xd
11:29 Chaos: so it's a risky endeavor to even try to put a stream onto them, in most cases
11:30 Kagetsu: well... i agree with you on that, i wouldn't put a stream there either
11:31 Chaos: I wish I could look at the map but I can't dl it since I'm at work *shrugs*
11:31 Kagetsu: thing is that if the mapper want to map that as a stream, then he should at least use the correct snapping
11:32 Kocari: oh damn
11:32 Kocari: its getting frisky in here
11:32 Kocari: probably about the porno grafitti map
11:32 Chaos: unlikely that there is a precisely correct snapping to use
11:32 pkhg: lol
11:32 Kagetsu: well, let's say the most accurate then
11:32 Akitoshi: omg
11:33 Nelka714: why don't we just call the owner to here for easier talk?
11:33 ProfessionalBox: Are you happy with the opinions you have now Kagetsu, or do you want me to find more people
11:33 Nelka714: e
11:33 pkhg: o
11:33 Kagetsu: here is he
11:33 Chaos: idk. I think using 1/4 for a desired stream is fine, personally
11:34 Kagetsu: even if it doesn't represent the music?
11:34 Kocari: yep
11:34 Chaos: not everything can be represented completely accurately
11:34 Kocari: I regret never keeping my ideas
11:34 Chaos: there are numerous instances of things like this being done this way
11:34 CptBlackBird: having a "random" 1/6 could mess people over imo
11:34 Kagetsu: but if there are other ways that are more accurate, shouldn't we use these options?
11:34 Kagetsu: like a repeating slider
11:34 Chaos: not always, imo
11:35 ProfessionalBox: Like I said in the thread multiple times: It's not always the best option to follow the music as closely as possible. It's a rhythm game and not a music imitation game after all
11:35 Chaos: I'm not the mapper. if probox wants it to be a stream and it is fitting enough, then I wouldn't tell him no
11:35 Kocari: I'd rank it
11:35 Chaos: if I were mapping it, I probably would put a slider or a repeating slider, as I hae said
11:35 Chaos: *have
11:36 Kocari: damn structure wise feels stranger now
11:36 Chaos: I would have pointed it out, heard his reasoning as seen in the thread currently, and moved on.
11:36 Kocari: feelsbadman
11:36 Kagetsu: thing is that you probably won't use a 1/4 repeater, because it doesn't fit the music
11:36 Asgore-: a
11:36 Chaos: because the musical element is overly difficult to accurately portray
11:36 Chaos: and we can't be extreme about wanting to fit the music in the mapping
11:36 Kocari: it's like trying to freestyle drumming
11:37 Arcubin: my internet killing me
11:37 Arcubin: what's the matter now?
11:37 Nelka714: dq cause questionable snapping
11:38 Nelka714: *'cause
11:38 Kagetsu: this ^
11:38 Arcubin: still the same as before?
11:38 CptBlackBird: it's good as it is rn imo, even if it would folllow the music more, 1/6 streams would be less comfortable to play
11:38 ProfessionalBox: The dq wasn't because of the snapping being an issue, it was because it was to be discussed further.
11:38 Chaos: I agree!
11:38 Kocari: ^\
11:38 Arcubin: lol probox is here
11:39 Arcubin: and what i read from his comment on the thread
11:39 Arcubin: he is valid
11:39 Kocari: As a pro player myself
11:39 Kocari: its good
11:39 Chaos: I'll take a look at the song when I get home and make a comment on it in the thread once I've seen the specific parts in question
11:39 Kocari: kek
11:39 Nelka714: these issues looks comparable with blanketing, from my point of view
11:39 Nelka714: like
11:39 Nelka714: sometimes
11:39 Nelka714: good blanket = bad flow
11:39 Kagetsu: uh... isn't the same imo
11:40 Arcubin: it's depend Nelka714
11:40 Nelka714: idk
11:40 Arcubin: depend on how you mapped it
11:40 Nelka714: that's why "sometimes"
11:40 Kocari: there has been ranked maps
11:40 Kocari: with questionable snaps
11:40 Kocari: No dab Cough*
11:40 Arcubin: this game is about beat
11:41 Arcubin: as the intro says
11:41 Arcubin: "click the circles, to the BEAT"
11:41 Arcubin: not the rhythm
11:41 Kagetsu: LOL
11:41 ProfessionalBox: I think we have gathered enough opinions from here now
11:41 Kagetsu: that's why this is called memehelp
11:41 ProfessionalBox: I'm going to savelog post in thread
11:41 Arcubin: i'm sure probox decission is correct
11:42 ProfessionalBox: Nothing will be changed as stated before, backed up with the majority of opinions from here aswell

tl;dr Majority agrees on the map being fine as it is
riffy
Since we did move the preview and one more thing, yeah.

Bubbled!
Avena
plus priti
sahuang
priti ultra
Natsu
yup
Kibbleru
nvm seems like u dont need me anymore.

getting absorbed into playing overwatch sry.
uv523
hello ma nam is jiose' i com here every day o get my waifu repspect' today i culdn;t get a boner an my mom got in the rum and she spanked me wwaifu pillow
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