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Accuracy vs. speed

posted
Total Posts
78
Originality
102 posts
Joined October 2014
Topic Starter
Originality
Hey all!

I'm a newb that just hit 1000pp, and I've seen a lot of information around the threads about working on speed and about working on AR. I've been playing music on guitar/violin for ~5 years, so I can usually read rhythms pretty easily, but I struggle with getting my pen (use CTL-480 tablet) to keep up with my clicking fingers, and end up completing songs with sub-par accuracy. As I get faster though, I notice the accuracy (slowly) comes along with the speed. Should I be working on JUST accuracy on the slower songs though and then moving up? And should I even be touching mods at the level I'm at?

Thanks so much!
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
1.) Do not touch mods until 4000pp - play nomods.
2.) Acc easier songs and move up through the diffs or have low acc fcs on harder diffs and improve acc later when they get easier. You'd probably want to do the first?

Hit Accuracy: 93.63%

Looking through your profile, if you want to consider yourself playing for accuracy make sure you have 97%+, preferably 98/99%. 95% is probably subpar to most.

96% is good for me :D
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
I'd say not to worry about your accuracy until you're playing 4.5* songs. Play the hardest maps you can FC.

No, don't touch mods until at least rank 10k, and ideally 4k pp, as Khel has said.
Originality
102 posts
Joined October 2014
Topic Starter
Originality
So no mods for AWHILE then. I can FC most songs up to about 4.5* right now (with at least 85-90% acc), so am I at a point where I should really start working on accuracy then? And 97% sounds like the magic number -- at that point I'm good to move onto a new song? Also, how big are your song banks, I have ~150 songs, do I need to go and mass download?
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
150 songs? Gods, I feel sorry for you. You should check out the beatmap pack list or use Tillerino in order to get more maps. I have over 30k beatmaps.
Originality
102 posts
Joined October 2014
Topic Starter
Originality
THAT'S SO MANY SONGS!!! I'll start downloading song packs, and try out that bot. I'm pretty sure I already downloaded a fair bit of the madoka songs (my top 10), so it'll be fun to see if the bot can find any more. Thanks again for the help!
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
The bot is incredibly handy for finding maps to play around your skill level. Definitely your best friend for PP gain.

Good luck in your circle clicking, OP!
StephOsu
1,216 posts
Joined February 2015
StephOsu
i would suggest you to continue with what you play(which you said is around 4.5 stars) or something easier and work on your timing/accuracy
you can touch mods for fun once in awhile but don't ever get into it
if you feel confidence with the beatmap that you were playing you can maybe play around with hidden mod because it hurts the least out of all the mods
and always, trust tillerino
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
you could also go to beatmap listings and hit Recommended Difficulty to see what you should play for pp

it wants me to fc 5.1*

like that will happen lmao
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
6.15*....
Frim4503
2,067 posts
Joined July 2013
Frim4503
the key is. play song that you like. dont use mods until you can fc insane diff with acc 97%-98% or your acc will go down -_-
ex: you like anime song, then download anime song.
Heinzen
149 posts
Joined October 2010
Heinzen

Khelly wrote:

1.) Do not touch mods until 4000pp - play nomods.
2.) Acc easier songs and move up through the diffs or have low acc fcs on harder diffs and improve acc later when they get easier. You'd probably want to do the first?

Hit Accuracy: 93.63%

Looking through your profile, if you want to consider yourself playing for accuracy make sure you have 97%+, preferably 98/99%. 95% is probably subpar to most.

96% is good for me :D

Mahogany wrote:

I'd say not to worry about your accuracy until you're playing 4.5* songs. Play the hardest maps you can FC.

No, don't touch mods until at least rank 10k, and ideally 4k pp, as Khel has said.
What kind of advice is this????????

I started playing HDHR when I was 20k in ppv1 (which should be like 40k nowadays) and I have one of the best aims in my country and among the top HDHR players around.

People should start playing mods when they are confortable with moving forward and stepping up their game, not based on a number that rarely means anything unless you are in the top ~3k
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Because generally the way people use mods make them shit prepared for playing higher level songs/getting better. Every person who plays DT 3* maps and stops improving.

Maybe he'd feel "comfy" moving to HR now or something but then find himself not getting fcs or having 88% on everything because he can't handle the od10 or ar10. At least if he waits until he's fairly decent with nomod he'd have a decent handle on aim, being able to read ar10, and having good accuracy on od8/9 if that's what he's working on. The point is to make sure you have a decent enough skillbase before you jump headfirst into something that is really hard and just pound against a wall relentlessly for no good reason.
-Atri-
3,047 posts
Joined March 2013
-Atri-
My accuracy is bad as fuck.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
hi

t/342548
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

bonbori wrote:

I started playing HDHR when I was 20k in ppv1 (which should be like 40k nowadays) and I have one of the best aims in my country and among the top HDHR players around.
Ok? And?

Did you NEED to start playing HDHR then to keep improving? I doubt it, you could progress much further nomod.

bonbori wrote:

People should start playing mods when they are confortable with moving forward and stepping up their game
No, because most of the time people don't actually know what's best for them. That's why we have people who have completely ruined themselves by playing DT too much and are completely unable to rank anymore.
Originality
102 posts
Joined October 2014
Topic Starter
Originality
Yeah, tillerino is wonderful, I've got about 1,000 songs downloaded now with packs too, which means I'll just have to play osu for the remainder of summer to get through all of them. Darn. And I enjoy playing most with nomod (because I get the best scores) -- sometimes I play around with hidden because I enjoy it, but HR and DT are a little much. & Kurante, I'm on that accuracy struggle train with you man -- except for the part where you're a lot better than me...
Reyvateil
146 posts
Joined June 2013
Reyvateil

Mahogany wrote:

bonbori wrote:

People should start playing mods when they are confortable with moving forward and stepping up their game
No, because most of the time people don't actually know what's best for them. That's why we have people who have completely ruined themselves by playing DT too much and are completely unable to rank anymore.
Let's be real here. If they became no mod players they would be banging their heads on a wall to learn DT or HR eventually.

It's just as simple as this: you become better at what you practice. Playing DT won't turn you into a better no mod/HR player, playing no mod won't make you a DT/HR player and so on. If these players are stuck they must get over the fact that they have two options from there: learn something else or get faster.

There is no secret, they didn't ruin themselves because they played too much DT, they just gave up at the first wall they hit and this would've happened no matter if they played no mod, DT, HR or HD. (FL players are masochists, they are an exception)
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
The longer you can hold out playing nomod, though, the further you can get when you eventually fold and have to learn DT/HR, and they're going to keep progressing for longer before hitting a wall.

There's a world of difference from playing Hards and Easy Insanes with DT and playing Normal Insanes+ with DT, and most people who farm DT at a medium level stop ranking entirely once they've run out of Hards and Easy Insanes to farm DT on, meanwhile, someone who got to that level nomod is still progressing properly.

It's a lot harder to re-learn something you've progressed past than it is to learn something new. It's very difficult for someone who has spammed DT/HR to relearn AR9 so that they can start actually playing nomod again.

There is no reason to actually start playing mods until about 10k, simply because it's relatively easy to get there nomod and you have no actual reason to start playing mods until then. You'd be better off just playing the game normally because PP is abundant.
pandaBee
2,004 posts
Joined December 2014
pandaBee
Accuracy and consistency first. Then you work on speed.
Deva
2,341 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva
Would anyone please explain it to me how does one "unlearn" ar9??
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Increasing nomod-difficulty always means that the actual gameplay elements are arranged in a more complicated and harder to play form.
Playing nomod ensures that you learn all the complicated patterns and stuff while you can rank up with DT for a very long time without having to face actual complicated stuff due to how there are always stupid singletap-maps without any technical difficulty you can mash through.
A nomod-player always has the most balanced skillset in comparison to any other specialised player enabling him to progress in any direction he wants to.

@HK: Play more EZDT.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

HK_ wrote:

Would anyone please explain it to me how does one "unlearn" ar9??
Playing too much AR9.67/AR10/AR10.3

You know, the same way people unlearn AR0/1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8
Reyvateil
146 posts
Joined June 2013
Reyvateil

Mahogany wrote:

There's a world of difference from playing Hards and Easy Insanes with DT and playing Normal Insanes+ with DT, and most people who farm DT at a medium level stop ranking entirely once they've run out of Hards and Easy Insanes to farm DT on, meanwhile, someone who got to that level nomod is still progressing properly.
Until they stop progressing because they have run out of no mod maps to farm on and have to play easier DTs and HRs, which is also an regression. Saying these mods are harder than no mods is just perception bias, leading to my next point.

Mahogany wrote:

It's a lot harder to re-learn something you've progressed past than it is to learn something new. It's very difficult for someone who has spammed DT/HR to relearn AR9 so that they can start actually playing nomod again.
They aren't going back but just learning something new. If they never worked on their AR9 reading or streaming they aren't regressing, just learning something they have never learned properly to begin with. Saying this is regressing is just bias, because like above this isn't actual regression, just learning experience.

Mahogany wrote:

There is no reason to actually start playing mods until about 10k, simply because it's relatively easy to get there nomod and you have no actual reason to start playing mods until then. You'd be better off just playing the game normally because PP is abundant.
Maybe they don't see the game as you do and actually have more fun just playing DT and/or ranking up fast? PP maps up to 250 are very abundant regardless of what mods you are playing, you just need to play your strong points.

HK_ wrote:

Would anyone please explain it to me how does one "unlearn" ar9??
They never learned it properly, just played the easier maps of said AR and that's it. Try putting this map on any multiplayer room to watch a fail fest at a certain part that is basically 100% reading.

Endaris wrote:

Increasing nomod-difficulty always means that the actual gameplay elements are arranged in a more complicated and harder to play form.
Relative. The "balanced skillset" no mod players got rekt by HR and DT picks from players proficient at these on every tournament I've helped/participated.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

Mikakage wrote:

Endaris wrote:

Increasing nomod-difficulty always means that the actual gameplay elements are arranged in a more complicated and harder to play form.
Relative. The "balanced skillset" no mod players got rekt by HR and DT picks from players proficient at these on every tournament I've helped/participated.
I didn't know that osu! was an exclusive multiplayer-game.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

Mikakage wrote:

Until they stop progressing because they have run out of no mod maps to farm on and have to play easier DTs and HRs, which is also an regression.
Which is exactly my point. Get as far as you can nomod so you're less likely to run into a wall because you already have all that skill built up before you're forced to step down your game to learn something new.

Mikakage wrote:

Saying these mods are harder than no mods is just perception bias, leading to my next point.
Playing Hard Rock on a map is objectively harder than playing the map nomod, disregarding AR/CS troll maps.

Mikakage wrote:

They aren't going back but just learning something new. If they never worked on their AR9 reading or streaming they aren't regressing, just learning something they have never learned properly to begin with. Saying this is regressing is just bias, because like above this isn't actual regression, just learning experience.
Again, that reinforces my point of not playing DT or HR until you've built up a proper base and have a reasonable rank to prove it. Whether it's regressing or learning something new, the point remains that the player is incapable of doing it.

Mikakage wrote:

Maybe they don't see the game as you do and actually have more fun just playing DT and/or ranking up fast?
We're talking in the context of playing to improve and gain ranks. If you just want to have fun, then do whatever the fuck you want, but in the context of trying to get better at the game in a sustainable manner, avoiding mods is reasonable advice, as in the majority of cases it will cause problems later on.
Reyvateil
146 posts
Joined June 2013
Reyvateil

Endaris wrote:

I didn't know that osu! was an exclusive multiplayer-game.
Because they will perform better than the second group even when spamming retries, right?

Mahogany wrote:

Playing Hard Rock on a map is objectively harder than playing the map nomod, disregarding AR/CS troll map
A 4.8* no mod map is about as hard as a map that becomes 4.8* after adding HR. When learning HR people don't start at the level they are used to playing no mods.

Mahogany wrote:

Again, that reinforces my point of not playing DT or HR until you've built up a proper base and have a reasonable rank to prove it. Whether it's regressing or learning something new, the point remains that the player is incapable of doing it.
How this reinforces your point? What I just said is just that it doesn't matter the order you learn things, you will struggle eventually and you either stick to your choice or turn to something else. Your last statement just confirms this, but you still insist that learning no mod first is objectively the best way to learn the game even when the situations are similar in both cases.

Mahogany wrote:

We're talking in the context of playing to improve and gain ranks. If you just want to have fun, then do whatever the fuck you want, but in the context of trying to get better at the game in a sustainable manner, avoiding mods is reasonable advice, as in the majority of cases it will cause problems later on.
This is what I am saying that is biased. Not learning mods will also cause problems later on, my inability to play HD for example, by skipping this I'm losing the chance of getting even better scores just because I keep avoiding it. Same with player who isn't able to play HR who will eventually have this as a problem later on.
Last edited by Reyvateil , edited 1 time in total.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
They're more likely to get good with DT/HR without developing bad habits that make it harder to learn other mods.
If you skim through the topplayers it's fairly obvious that some of them are completely tunneled on one of the two mods and probably won't be able to get an equally impressive play with the other one(or even nomod) due to a lack of some keyskills for the specific difficulties.
Reyvateil
146 posts
Joined June 2013
Reyvateil

Endaris wrote:

If you skim through the topplayers it's fairly obvious that some of them are completely tunneled on one of the two mods and probably won't be able to get an equally impressive play with the other one(or even nomod) due to a lack of some keyskills for the specific difficulties.
Just like balanced players won't get the top plays from specific mods because they don't have the keyskills to play at the highest levels of these. It's a trade-off, each compete by playing their strong points making it even in the end.
Yolshka
669 posts
Joined April 2014
Yolshka

Mahogany wrote:

What I just said is just that it doesn't matter the order you learn things, you will struggle eventually and you either stick to your choice or turn to something else.
And if you decide to stick to your choice?
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