Charles445 wrote:

Hi!
This mod's main intention is to prepare the set for ranking while maintaining the style of the mapper.
I have included pictures of alternate versions of sliders that try to keep the jagged bending nature you were going for while still being rankable. i've quickly looked over ur mod and i think they're really make sense to me everywhere... so amazing ur mod is, and i think that's why 445 u r not only a good mapper but also a good modder in my mind... ;w; (that's why u guys become bats? lol~
anyway, i'll check them attentively by detail (in a really slow speed thou... ;w;

[Normal]
The star rating is a tad high (3.24), it might be worth trying to make it easier. ok, thou i didn't suppose that to be a issue... ;w;

The overall new combos of the map are very inconsistent. Usually for a Normal it's a good idea to have one every big white tick.
So instead of something like http://puu.sh/63wxk.jpg, it would be like http://puu.sh/63wy8.jpg i agree with u, i went over the map and fixed most of nc issues like this (i kept some coz the pattern like 00:16:684 (1,2,3,4) -

00:58:559 (1,1) - There isn't enough time after the spinner to react to the slider. This is the easiest difficulty so the player should have extra time to stop spinning. Increase the distance between the spinner and the slider oh... well... seems like i have to shorten those sliders followed
01:00:018 (1) - This slider is not easy to follow because of the overlapping at the dotted line -> http://puu.sh/63woN.jpg fixed. i didn't regard this as a hard-to-read slider thou... now i know this is hard to noobs 0.0
01:20:018 (2) - The end is overlapping a lot, makes it extremely hard to see how long the slider takes. It's surrounded by slidertrack so it is ambiguous. -> http://puu.sh/63wcu.jpg fixed as well
02:26:684 (1) - This slider is overlaps a lot, there is a bunch of overlapping. The overlapping athe yellow lines makes this extremely hard to read. -> http://puu.sh/63wjM.jpg fixed
02:30:018 (2) - Overlaps make this hard to read. -> http://puu.sh/63wro.jpg fixed
02:40:018 (1) - Try not to have the end touching the previous part of the slider. It's harder to read when it's curled into a ball. fixed, consider to the low sv, ur mods really make sense

[Hard]
00:13:768 (2) - Move this to x:448 y:352 for better spacing? -> http://puu.sh/63wBN.jpg good idea, changed
00:27:102 (2) - I recommend moving this somewhere else so it isn't such a difficult antijump. yeah, same ds issue as above. i move 2 to 412,222 and blanket with 3 and 5

[Lunatic]
Awesome! Plays very well and uses combos for readability effectively. i'm happy that this diff is accepted ;w;

[Extra]
This difficulty was clearly designed for AR9, but got changed to AR10 post-bubble. You should probably change it back to AR9 to make sure the map works as originally intended. as for the ar, i've stated my opinion at 115th post in this thread, and hope ar10 can be accepted 0.0
00:11:684 - Are you sure about this triangle pattern? It's quite hard to read the first time around. that's exactly one of the reason to set ar10 in this diff
00:13:976 (1,1,1,1,1,1,3) - This pattern is had to read because the starts of the sliders show up in different places. If the sliders all started at the same point, this would be intuitive. oh... actually i think it would be a bit more difficult if i set all of these sliders' head stack to start from the same points, coz approach circles effect reading objs a lot and players may got confused at rhythm if they hit the obj in error timing point. however, if i clearly show the sliders' head out of that stack point, we can easily judge when and where to aim. on the other hand, maybe this is not just for a beautiful composing or symm, just some kind of pattern imo
00:26:684 (3) - This slider takes a while to leave the bottom because of the redpoints making it zigzag. It's hard to see the full slider underneath all the circles, and the slider track isn't immediately visible. I'd recommend only using redpoints near the end of the slider where they are easily visible. i completely agree with u, fixed to another slider shape.
00:43:976 (2) - The 1/8 doesn't quite fit here. I'd just use a 1/4 slider here. ok changed
01:00:018 (1) - This slider almost overlaps itself, I'd recommend ending the slider on the beginning of the 3 instead of the end. -> http://puu.sh/63xk6.jpg oh here, i changed this slider's shape for avoiding the bad overlap. but i fixed this by changing its shape while still ends on the end of 3, and i think it's fine as well 0.0
01:09:393 (2) - The repeat might be hard to see on some skins with the hitburst of 01:08:872 (2). I recommend moving the repeat away from the other circles so more people can play the difficulty with their skins. really? ok i fixed this issue by moving these stream notes but also sliders nearby. thx a lot for reminding this, i just didn't notice ;w;
01:32:518 (1) - This slider dips down very sharply at the end. I'd move the end more to the left so it doesn't overlap itself as much. -> http://puu.sh/63xtX.jpg
02:26:684 (1) - This slider would probably be easier to read if it ended on the start of the 3 instead of the end. -> http://puu.sh/63xBJ.jpg well... i just think that shape looks pretty cool and fits the sharp melody of violin in the song, while it didn't confuse players hitting this repeating slider. so... may i keep this? ;w;
02:33:351 (1) - Smoothen out the start and end of this slider. -> http://puu.sh/63xEx.jpg i agree, changed, but a bit different from urs. and also in order to keep a better ds and flow, i move 02:34:080 (2,3) - a bit as well
02:40:018 (1) - Avoid the overlap at the end. -> http://puu.sh/63xFX.jpg fixed, but i set the end on the right instead
02:46:684 (1) - Make the point at the beginning less dramatic and the ending less bent. -> http://puu.sh/63xIF.jpg agree, too. fixed
02:49:393 (2) - For maximum playability with most skins, I'd recommend not overlapping the repeat with the previous circle. The hitburst of the circle at 02:48:976 (1) makes the repeat hidden on many skins. thx for reminding this as well, moved to another position
02:59:185 (1) - Avoid the bend at the start and end, they are too sharp. -> http://puu.sh/63xOP.jpg for same reason i mentioned above, hope this can be accepted ;w;

That's pretty much it, the main issue is the hard to read sliders on the Normal and Extra. Hard has minor issues and Lunatic is fantastic.
If there's a problem with anything I suggested, please let me know and I can try to work out something that will suit your set. i learned a lot from ur mods in dealing with sliders, yeah... those slider overlapped themselves cause a really confusing reading issue to most players, and i'll notice to avoid this from now on i map things, thank u very much for ur general suggestion! OVO

wcx19911123 wrote:

the Extra diff's design is totally like a 288 BPM.

tsuka wrote:

操 为什么要UN神图 我要砍死他！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！

Priti wrote:

Seriously, you guys should stop attacking people for trying to improve this map, I am not modding this for fun, I am modding this because I am trying to make this better.

Decipher wrote:

HW!! fighting!!!

Priti wrote:

Seriously, you guys should stop attacking people for trying to improve this map, I am not modding this for fun, I am modding this because I am trying to make this better.

But we can try to help someone without sounding rude, right? o.o;

Charles445 wrote:

Hollow Wings let me know when the mods have been replied to.
Modders please make sure to give suggestions in a friendly manner, being rude isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Priti wrote:

*Reminder: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/2771273 My combo colors~ no change sry

Extra

1. Stop making excuses, the fact that SapphireGhost is a high rated player doesn't mean his opinion isn't valid, this map is borderline bad with AR10, seriously, you shouldn't revolve around AR10, you should put it back down to AR9 and work around from there (And yes, that means you need to say goodbye to your precious unintuitive patterns) then these patterns can never been set and played while they're fun to play and playble, few players already got fc even with modes. patterns fit the song, ar10 fits the patterns, that's all. yes it's just fine
2. 00:02:726 (2) - Sounds off beat, either delete it or add a note on 00:02:830 i just follow the guitar's beat, never set more or less one.
3. 00:04:184 (1,1) - Dat nasty overlap, fix it please (It doesn't show on AR10, but having it as AR9 would be better anyways) so this problem don't exist in ar10 and it's not that seriously while this is good for pattern and flow
4. 00:05:851 (1,2) - Add a note between these two (and ofcourse change spacing) on purpose missing repeating beats for pattern when it plays hasty
5. 00:09:601 (1) - Looks a bit ugly, moving the third point one grid to the left can slightly help, but just reworking it can be better. ugly to u, not me. trill in violin, i have no more words for these mods
6. 00:11:684 (1) - Remove NC. nope
7. 00:13:351 (3) - Hideous slider, go for a more simple shape.
8. 00:13:976 (1,1,1,1,1) - Unneeded NC spam, this fucks up the HP Drain so hard.. easy pattern indeed if u can pass this diff
9. 00:15:851 (1) - Right side looks fine, left side looks fine, center looks horrible, try to improve the curves. fixed this a bit
10. 00:17:309 (1) - Remove NC nope
11. 00:17:518 (1) - Try to improve the shape? it looks a bit too simple considering it stays on the screen for more than a whole tick, try something a bit more complex but not too complex like the strange things I pointed before. ok i can agree with this, changed this slider to another shape, thou idk if it's still strange to u. move objs nearby a bit to keep patterns as well
12. 00:18:143 (1) - Remove NC nope
13. 00:18:351 (1) - Holy crap this slider looks like a seizing snake, make it a bit more simple and fluid.
14. 00:18:351 (1,1) - Horrible overlap. hmm, maybe regard this a pattern or this is just like this. overlap hardly can be a unrankble pattern unless overlapped a arrow. i have no more words about overlap doublts
15. 00:18:976 (1) - Remove NC nope
16. 00:19:184 (1,2) - Ugly overlap. fixed this a bit
17. 00:22:934 (1) - Curve is too big, change this slider please. nope for easy aiming
18. 00:25:018 (1) - Remove NC nope
19. 00:26:684 (3) - First half is awful due to the cramped up curves. already fixed from 445's mods
20. 00:29:184 (1) - Curve is somewhat decent, second half is too straight. changed a bit
21. 00:30:018 (1) - Slightly move the red points, but overall this slider is pretty fine. fine enough to me now
22. 00:30:747 (2,1) - Awful overlap.
23. 00:30:851 (1) - Seizing Snakes woop woop, change this please. nope
24. 00:31:476 (1) - Remove NC nope
25. 00:31:684 (1) - Too simple as I said last time you had a slider like this. no change, i do this on purpose
26. 00:32:518 (1) - Remove NC. nope
27. 00:32:518 (1,2) - Awkward overlap.
28. 00:33:351 - I can't understand your whistle usage in this section, it feels random due to your incredibly strange rhythm. strange and random to u, not me or testers, bats and some of other players
29. 00:34:393 (5) - Change this to a 1/4 slider that starts at 00:34:497 - It won't be unintuitive rhythm wise because the slider before it ends on a blue tick too.
30. 00:33:976 (3,4) - Pretty awful placement and ugly overlap.
    ~and here I got lazy, I got tired of writing something for pretty much every second, so now I will just point some general things, but you should take what I wrote so far and try to use it in the rest of the map~
31. Stop overusing new combos, it breaks HP Drain. hp6 now. nc is used for spreading patterns and assisting readding.
32. Stop with the ugly sliders that look like a seizing snake. nope
33. Try to not have unintended overlaps, these look sloppy, unprofessional and overall ugly. ugly to u
34. 01:30:018 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - This is my least favourite part of the map, you just got completely lazy so you put a constant 1/1 rhythm with extremely low spacing and combospammed, there is nothing to like about this. this is one of my most favourite part of the map, i took lot of considering about this rather than a lazy work here. it will never be changed
35. 01:31:684 (1) - The hitsounding on these things broke my ears, seriously, lower the volume or stop overusing that sample. nope
36. 02:29:080 (2,1) - This is the most unintuitive, hard to read, nonsensical and unemphasised jump in the world. yeah, people's eyes will be wider now.
37. 02:49:080 (2,1) - Same for this one
38. 02:58:351 (1) - RIP ears.

ktgster wrote:

Hollow Wings wrote:

2. i'll keep AR10: as i said of ds stuff above, further more, there're lots of patterns set in this diff can't be read well by most of players in even ar9. eg. 00:11:684 (1,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - , 01:02:101 (1,2,1,2,1) - or 02:28:768 (1,2,1,2,1) - . after long time playing i was aware of there always be hard to read the pattern if we set objs together even we clearly know about the rhythm, like overlap slider's track with notes or sliders, mess of notes or kick sliders and so on. i found people did will fell in chaos state when playing these patterns in low ar (just comparing some really old maps if u want to understand my words clearly) even their playing skills r good enough to fc common insane diffs. the high ar should be set for these patterns readble. i'm not telling that ar10 can be used everywhere, it's just fit the patttern here imo.

I don't see anything hard to read. Just those stupid patterns that overlap each other and feel like they're there to piss you off. If less than 10% of the map is readable, that would mean to change your patterns instead of putting some dumb AR that doesn't even suit the map which was once mapped with AR 9. yeah, and these patterns will never be set from now on, while they can be played smoothly if u got that skill. what a pity to stop osu go forward in mapping and playing.

The NCing is a huge problem in itself. There is no logic behind it and it breaks the HP drain. This looks like you threw your NC's everywhere without a thought. Like 00:00:851 (1) - why this NC here and 00:13:976 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - why the NC spam when its just the same thing as before. Parts like 00:16:684 (1,1,2,1) - also don't fit well and should just be a single combo. I also don't see the NC's needed in 01:02:101 (1,2,1,2,1) and whats the point of spamming on 01:30:018 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1). Too much improper NCing could make your map be harder to read than it really needs to be.
i thought, my nc logic is, fine.

The whole map itself isn't really good at all. Its very inconsistent and plays more like a 144 bpm map if you look at it as a whole. The jump streams are very forced as I said before. 00:30:018 (1,1,1) doesn't even even have a buildup so why the speedups. Then you have parts like 01:30:018 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) which it starts to turn after a bit yet the song hits the same note several times, so why turn it. 02:56:684 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) is more much consistent and I advise to repeat that for the first half. Now you have patterns like these 00:25:018 (1,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2) which are really hard to play in the first place. The whole map is easy yet you have this part and some other parts like 01:15:434 (1,2,1,2,1) and 02:28:768 (1,2,1,2,1) which are really annoying to play correctly which again, creating that forced feel.
288bpm this map was mapped for, 1/2 those patterns are, and they're all forced to u

Just my 2 cents.

neonat wrote:

Just wanted to give some suggestions, maybe you could give some considerations~

Normal

00:14:393 (2) - maybe to fit better beside the previous slider, place it at x:232 y:196 this is just look a bit different when a blanket has a slider's head or end. still fixed this a bit

SPOILER

00:16:684 (1) - move it a bit up, to x:256 y:208 hmmm?? oh no i just wanna keep those blankets

SPOILER

00:18:351 (3) - if you do the previous one, move this slider to x:384 y:28 sry i reject this

SPOILER

00:19:184 (4) - when I try using the 1.1x distance spacing, I can't seem to have this slider where it used to be, it would not get so close to 00:18:351 (3) - is it too close? If so I think you may have to reposition it well, composing here have less problem than u thought, here ds is just fine even to noobs
00:30:018 (1) - use edit -> rotate by... ->select clockwise direction -> select selection centre -> rotate by 3° yeah, truely blanket issue, fixed

SPOILER

01:02:726 (2) - I think it sounds nicer if it was at 01:02:518 sry but i set this rhythm on purpose, same after as well
01:06:059 (3) - same as ^ I think it is nicer at 01:05:851
01:09:393 (3) - ^ with the higher tone of the trumpet (whew I like trumpet @@ I play one)
Same with the rest that follows, also, with the simpler on-beat, it would easier in the Normal, since it is also the easiest difficulty thou it's the easiest difficulty, it's a Normal diff
01:00:018 (1,2,1) - 01:02:726 (2,1) - do not use 1.1x distance spacing, why is there a change? As a Normal and being the simplest difficulty distance spacing should be consistent throughout the song hmm, actually u can see spacing changing in other ranked maps in normal diffs as well when the beats r slowly appered and quite easy to read and play. i'm not sure if this is not appropriate but indeed there's no rules says we can't change the distance in normal diff. so i think these r just fine and let them be like that now.
01:03:351 (2,3) - also not following the 1.1x spacing, just want to ask, is it because they would be too far apart? If so I'm not sure if it's fine, the note goes to the top left if using 1.1x. But 01:06:476 (1) - is too close to 01:06:059 (3) -
01:09:304 to 01:30:434 - is where the issue of distance spacing is
01:50:226 (2) - move it slightly down to make it equidistant to both the other objects around it nazi thou, fixed

SPOILER

02:08:351 (1) - move to x216 y:200 ----- 02:09:184 (2) - move there too here i just fix the ds and blanket by change 02:07:518 (2) - 's position and shape a bit
02:26:684 to 02:56:268 - same thing about spacing

Hard

00:04:184 (4) - shift the repeating end slightly to match up with 00:03:559 (2) - fixed

SPOILER

Nothing else really for Hard, it fits your style orz, what's my style really is? idk... lol

Lunatic

the increase in slider velocity, I feel it just increases too much and I can't really feel the gradual change, it just jumps straight at me.
Like the sliders 01:31:684 (1,2) - it is just weird and quite mad looking hmmm, just did them on purpose, i can understand people refusing these, but i still insist and they did work well imo
02:57:100 (2,1,2,1,2) - maybe instead of going towards the bottom right corner, they go towards the top left hand corner (the slight stacking) lol this is not a serious problem, maybe regard this a personal choice.

Extra

I don't really know what to say, some of the rhythms are quite peculiar, like it does not really blend in to the music. Yes, there is a pattern to the rhythm you used, but it just does not fit to the ideal it can be into the song. Like 00:40:851 (4,5) - the patterns of circle 1/8 before the slider pattern you used often, the complexity of it doesn't really go with the feel of the song. as for this i have to say, look at those ranked map's 3-notes-streams and u will find most of them also added without beats corresponding in the song. maybe most of them r set in a appropriate way as people always played in maps so they're just fine, i set these rhythm for same reason.
01:00:018 (1) - totally didn't expect this slider here, couldn't read it already fixed from 445's mods
02:14:184 - add a note with clapnope, i miss this beat on purpose
02:16:684 (1,1) - like what I mentioned about the rhythm pattern, it doesn't really fit honestly i partly agree with u, but i insist this as i mentioned above
02:22:101 (2,3) - rhythm here too, it's like a sudden random triplet within the long trumpet sound same as above

That's about it from me, I'm quite particular about rhythms in songs, which is why I commented about that, and as for the rest, it's just about maybe trying to make it look nicer. Good luck~ they're just some mapping thought, maybe it's bad, yep, i'm still studying mapping

Yes, there might be quite a bit of nazi and positioning in my mod, but it is to make it look nicer! and I hope you edit it, because it is not about it being a problem, but so that your map can become nicer~ truely ur mods r a bit nazi but really make sense, and i'm glad to recive mods like this and fix them

Lan wings wrote:

事实上这样的NC方式加上排列让我很难判断到底哪个才是slider head
我觉得靠这些来增加图的难度并不是一个明智的选择
个人理解NC最主要的作用是辅助读图而不是用来增加难度
另外原地三角stack那里的flow简直那啥00:11:893 (1) - stack在00:11:684 (1) - 逆时针顺序打起来会更顺手 不过我看你也是故意这样的很难会改了
希望你能多考虑下实际玩的时候的手感吧,哪些排列打起来别扭哪些排列打起来流畅这些还是得靠经验和自己test才能得出结论,别人说的自己也不一定能接受 还是得靠自己去好好感受
no kd

Zarerion wrote:

Hi again. First of, I'm sorry for my previous mod post. I was just shown the map, checked it in editor and was a little, well, shocked, no offense.
So now I actually played the map more than once (passed it around 8 times with pretty stable 90% accuracy), and I realized it's actually somewhat fun to play, and I feel like i can give somewhat more productive feedback now. I surely hope you will give this another chance and consider my suggestions, as they now come from a player's point of view, rather than a grumpy modder's, lol. that's what i wanna say to others as well

First of, I tesplayed with both AR10 and AR 9, patterns like 01:02:101 (1,2,1,2,1) - are much easier with AR 9 to me.

About the triangles: They're extremely hard to read, no matter which AR is used (so that isn't really an argument imo), that is because of the Antijump before each triangle, and that makes them the hardest part of the map. You can do this differently, but still make it awesome. I have an example for 00:11:684 (1,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - of what could work for it in my opinion (Don't worry, I only deleted the NCs so you can see the order properly): hahaha...... first, ar10 fits this pattern, no more. second, this pattern had been considered when i made this map, but i still choose the patterns now. still i didn't give up the pattern u set in that pic so i set it in my another map. as for this map, no change. i'm happy u have thought deep into this pattern and truely help me considering fixing by testing.

click

The fourth triangle is placed on (4); (7) and (1), leading directly into the next slider. Doing this would have the same rhythmical effect, but would be much easier to read as your version. Consider it :p see my words above ><

1. 00:13:351 (3) - This is weird to play, simply because it starts so slow because of all the red points, then changes the direction so suddenly and speeds up. Try to make this a bit smoother. nope, for 4 times triple sudden big jumps, players will get used to aiming hit objs and stack cursor, so this slider is fine to play.
2. 00:13:976 (1,1,1,1,1) - The NCs in this part ARE confusing for a player. Because of the NC usage, this part lacks any followpoints, and the followpoints help indicating where the next sldier starts. This is probably what Charles meant when he said it's hard to see the sliderheads. all mods againest these nc sets when i think it's more diffcult without nc as i said above in other's replies
3. 00:25:018 (1,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - same thing about the triangles again. ofc you don't need to use the same pattern over and over again, I'd just prefer to not have these overlaps/antijumps anymore consider this: if i change this, osu game will never have this pattern from now on, because as u said in this mod
4. 00:43:143 (6) - I'd remove the 1/8. as it's simply overmapped already fixed from 445's mod, others can be fine
5. 00:46:424 (10) - ^
6. 01:22:518 (1) - I beg you to lower the spacing for this jump. It is inconsistent with your previous patterns and is hard as hell to play. Reading the patterns with AR10 is already a challenge, but this jump here really is extreme., and you don't have such rising spacings in other patterns like this (at least by far not this extreme.) u mentioned me this, and i'll just make the jump pattern more diffcult before this to make all these not inconsistent.
   changed 01:18:768 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - pattern in a new situation
7. 01:26:476 (1) - can you remove this NC? It always confuses me, since this isn't a typical back-and-forth pattern anymore, but rather a star pattern. And since you use NCs to make patterns distinguishable, as you yourself said, it would make more sense to not break this 5-object pattern into 2 parts, would it?
   thx for ur point, this mod is the most important mod i've met in this post, and i'll explain this:
   in my eyes, this is not a star pattern, but 2 jump patterns just like before. so, what is patterns indeed? spread patterns into a star pattern or 2 jump pattern? this just depends on who's answering this. now i see, people can't accept my nc logic just because they see a star here, while i regarding this as 2 jump patterns. what can i say for this further? this is also repling to other doubts to nc sets at other positions in this map. first, this is good to me to set nc like this while reading this pattern, and it works pretty well and some people agree with me. then yes, this is like shxt in some other guys don't agree with me. tastes differ right? so i insist my choice.
8. 01:31:684 (1,2) - these feel really weird because they SV is so damn high, but you barely need to move your cursor in order to 300 these., I guess that weird feeling is also related to the 2 reverses each sldier has, you could try a different rhythm pattern for this to feel a bit smoother: ur idea was considered when mapping. but yep like the stacked triple jump patterns, this can be played and didn't confuse players catching the rhythm. i just thought this is great and did some modders as well, so no change here.
   
   click

   
9. 01:53:976 (1,1,1,1,1) - if you listened to my NC advice before, just for the sake of consistency, you should apply it here as well just patterns, no change
10. 02:04:393 (5) - overmapped 1/8, I would remove as I don't see a reason to have it maybe i can call the reason "that brass tell me this, and the bass is supporting on me"
11. 02:16:684 (1,1) - I can't explain this well, but this is awkward to play, even if it's not even hard to read. You are going to a certain direction and directly have to turn back. idk, lacking proper terms for this, I'd say the flow is messed up. Anyway, it doesn't feel good, you should do something like that call it that kind of patterns as i mentioned before, still thx for ur suggestion considered when mapping again
    
    click

    
12. 02:17:518 (1,1) - same issue as above
13. 02:39:080 (2,1) - make this a bigger jump, it's kinda hard to catch after youh hve so much momentum build up from the previous jump pattern, also it would be more consistent with the other jump pattern in this part there's a tiny shift in the song here after, and bats also agree a lager ds jump here, so let it be like this.
14. 02:49:080 (2,1) - HNNNGHH so hard. Yeah idk, just felt like pointing out how hard this is. The pattern is consistent with the rest so I won't complain, but consider reducing spacing already fixed from 445's mods
15. 02:52:935 (1) - same thing about the NC in star pattern as before
16. 02:58:351 (1,2) - same thing as 01:31:684 (1,2)

lkx_Shore wrote:

01:10:018 (1,2,1,2,1) - 既然是表现张力，为什么间距不也来开点 (trans: larger ds for higher tention) ok, changed a bit and other patterns like this as well

Hollow Wings wrote:

Lan wings wrote:

事实上这样的NC方式加上排列让我很难判断到底哪个才是slider head
我觉得靠这些来增加图的难度并不是一个明智的选择
个人理解NC最主要的作用是辅助读图而不是用来增加难度
另外原地三角stack那里的flow简直那啥00:11:893 (1) - stack在00:11:684 (1) - 逆时针顺序打起来会更顺手 不过我看你也是故意这样的很难会改了
希望你能多考虑下实际玩的时候的手感吧,哪些排列打起来别扭哪些排列打起来流畅这些还是得靠经验和自己test才能得出结论,别人说的自己也不一定能接受 还是得靠自己去好好感受
no kd

服的地方：岚大人居然也来喷，哭瞎这只是一点test后的感想跟意见而已 非要说喷我也没办法了
不服的地方：
1. nc我并没有用来增加难度，正如你所说我nc设置来辅助读图的，你可以认为“如果这里没有nc那么hw会觉得这个梗非常难读”
我一开始也说了你这个NC方式加上排列导致玩家很难去读出到底哪个是slider head,甚至更为严重的因为是同样的颜色 根本就看不出这里有一个slider, 00:13:976 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,4) - 你这地方我无论怎么看也看不出半点的辅助读图效果,只会增加读图难度,不信?找人打打看看忽略自带皮肤后跟不忽略哪个难读.这样做最后的结果其实就是大部分玩这图的人直接选择忽略自带皮肤,这样连你所坚持的combocolour也没有了坚持的必要 何必呢

2. 三角stack flow怎么会有顺手不顺手的问题？逆时针和顺时针的区别正如转圈，你顺手的他顺手的都不一样， 本来就是个几何跳罢了，转个角度同理
没错 你的三角跳是没有问题 但是一个三角跳 起始位置不同 顺序不同 角度不同甚至联系上前后排列分布位置和衔接等等因素就会导致移动手势是别扭还是舒服等等,你这一段最影响flow的地方就是这两个00:11:684 (1) - 00:13:351 (3) - 不说别的我相信我说的这些地方我并不是第一个人提出来的,从这点难道你还不难看出问题所在吗?

3. 整张图我打着很流畅，所以我这么做了。rank图也有我打的不流畅的，照样rank了。我做图我自己会不test？
做图经验不够确实是我太弱，如果怀疑我的做图态度的话我表示你一定是多虑了
关于这点 我只能说你test的还不够

Priti wrote:

So he actually denied my combo colors, he prefers the spastic epileptic yellow and red.
I GIVE UP ON TRYING TO HELP THIS GUY

Priti wrote:

This pretty much sums up everything everyone didn't say because they are too polite, even me.

Priti wrote:

I GIVE UP ON TRYING TO HELP THIS GUY

Frostmourne wrote:

I am not going to kill any mapper's spirit or anything at all.

- AR9 please as SapphireGhost and other modders suggested. The song itself is calm (you clearly see it's 144 bpm), no need to make anything further hard than it should be.

- It will be nice if you can have combocolor more than 4 colors, They will help a lot on parts where jumps are stacked together.
I see it's decorated quite well as is. But if want to decorate like that, your map must not be this insane with sudden stacked jumps or alike.

Priti wrote:

02:58:351 (1) - RIP ears.

Charles445 wrote:

I'm going to ask around for a couple of playtests of the hardest difficulty and ask those testers if AR 9 or AR 10 would be better.

wcx19911123 wrote:

Charles445 wrote:

I'm going to ask around for a couple of playtests of the hardest difficulty and ask those testers if AR 9 or AR 10 would be better.

this is nice, I suggest to find the people from who can just pass the diff to those who can easily fc(or even hold some modes) on the diff, this diff is for these levels of players, their opinions are most important

DenoisoGoiso wrote:

yomi use english pls

i hope hollow wings can follow hir want

/me runs

Akabato wrote:

那个歪果仁，你在osu社区这么吊，你家里人知道吗？

Konei wrote:

@Priti:

Priti wrote:

02:58:351 (1) - RIP ears.

I don't know how this can't be considered rude.

Hollow Wings wrote:

to combo color doudts: i see no issue from the combo colors now even considering playing, so no change

Hollow Wings wrote:

to combo color suggestions:
...there always nc set at sv changing point thou they're bad to some ones, still no change...

Hollow Wings wrote:

to Garven: then as i said, these patterns can never exist from now when they can be played smoothly by most of players enable to beat extra diff like this even another group against this thou it's rankble, am i right?

neonat wrote:

DenoisoGoiso wrote:

hahahah
hahahah
hahahah
hahahah
hahahah

[hahahah]

Constructive replies please, I think that is what this mapset currently needs to move forward....

Lan wings wrote:

why priti still here

Hollow Wings wrote:

to Garven: oh sry for my bad english. what i mean is: if i changed, then these pattern will never exist. i know maybe they're not fine to someones even bats, but i think they do really good when playing by most players.
still thx for giving suggestions :3

Garven wrote:

Just an illustration of the concept since I don't think you're quite understanding what I'm saying.

http://puu.sh/6gKfW/5ebb2f1d1d.osu

I stopped applying at 01:00:018 - , but I think you'll get what I talking about. uh... is any issue here after 445's mod? 0.0

Also why did you add a break at 01:33:351 - ? It's such an awkward place to stop. D: uhhh?? why? i think the break here is appreciate, for in the song this is a repeat part next and i just do break to separate the map into two parts here, that's all D:
And for me, the best kiai spot would be during the part at 01:00:018 - and stopping where you start it again. ha... well, the kiai part is more like a special part different from others, and as u see, in the kiai like the 1st one i also used lower sv to do this. and imo, the song's part which had set kiai now is more like a main part in this song, and the song's part in ur opinion should be kiai is more like a refrain to the next heat part which obviously is kiai. so i think the kiai set is just ok 0.0

Just a couple of observations on the Extra map itself: The circles feel way too huge for the general slow pace of the map. hmm, this is just what i want to express. and also, if this is a cs4 map, the map's composing will be worse in looking and don't work well in some of the patterns in it, cs3 is good.
The kiai feels especially slow-paced which is kind of disappointing since I'd expect that to be the super-awesome part, not the kinda of mellow less distance-snap-breaking compared to the part right before it. haha sry for disappointing u... maybe this can be more awesome, but i think this is my best result which i don't want to ruin :3

Charles445 wrote:

Not fond of the contrast in Garven's suggestion, pure black and pure white is risky to do because it can break on so many skins. It's also controversial because as far as I can tell most people despise grayscale combo colors.
The muted red and... green? Colors are a bit too washed out and muddy.

While I agree the bright red and bright yellow are very sharp and blinding, I'm honestly not sure what it would be replaced with.
At least they're easy to see during gameplay.

Maybe somebody can come up with a better solution for the colors?

Charles445 wrote:

Not fond of the contrast in Garven's suggestion, pure black and pure white is risky to do because it can break on so many skins. It's also controversial because as far as I can tell most people despise grayscale combo colors.
The muted red and... green? Colors are a bit too washed out and muddy.

While I agree the bright red and bright yellow are very sharp and blinding, I'm honestly not sure what it would be replaced with.
At least they're easy to see during gameplay.

Maybe somebody can come up with a better solution for the colors? i really can't understand why these combo colors have issues.

[Normal]
00:58:559 (1) - This spinner is too short for a Normal difficulty. I recommend removing it and adding two circles at 00:59:184 - and 00:59:601. fixed, but i used slider here instead 0.0
01:20:018 (2) - Try to move the endpoint so it's easier to see the path at the end. -> http://puu.sh/6lbSn.jpg fixed
02:25:226 (1) - This spinner is too short for a Normal difficulty. I recommend removing it and adding two circles at 02:25:851 - and 02:26:268 - fixed as well.
02:40:018 (1) - I'd rearrange the end of this slider so its path is clearer. -> http://puu.sh/6lc5f.jpg fixed
02:43:351 (2) - The end might need to be moved up and to the left so it's a clearer path. -> http://puu.sh/6lc7j.jpg fixed

[Hard]
00:55:018 (1,2,3) - The spacing here is weird and hard to read. fixed, changed to another pattern.
00:58:351 (7) - It looks like this was originally at x 463 y 281, but was moved because of slider overlap. It's hard to read the antijump, but rearranging the 7 while there might fix it. Try moving the 7 to here http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1248910 ok, fixed, and pattern like this at 02:25:017 (7) - as well.
02:35:851 (1,2,3,4) - Move this to the right a little bit, right now the automatic stacking is making it touch 02:35:434 (2) - ok, fixed

[Lunatic]
00:57:413 (2,3) - Reverse these two circles, this is too hard to read otherwise. ah... no... this is just a pattern and i think this is not that much hard to players playing this diff readding this pattern 0.0
02:24:080 (2,3) - Reverse these two circles, this is too hard to read otherwise. as above, i think this can be kept 0.0


Not going to bubble immediately after changes, need to make sure Garven and others have time to give feedback if they want or if any issues weren't resolved.

Garven wrote:

The colors were just an illustration for the concept. Even I wouldn't advocate that color scheme, haha. Using more loud colors such as orange and turquoise might work well.

Feel free to move this without me though - I have no idea when I'd be able to sit down and give this a full check.

As for a quick scan, in Normal 00:58:559 (1) - and 02:25:226 (1) - are super-short for this level of difficulty. already fixed in 445's mod
Normal's star rating is pretty damned high for the easiest of the set too. This would benefit greatly if you added an Easy to fill in that beginner gap. hmm, thou the star rating is high, a really easy map the normal diff is, right? i think it's easy enough to be a lowest diff in mapset...

In the difficulty settings, I don't recommend having OD 2 lower than AR. It can lead to confusion when you get really off beat, but still land 300s in-game. This sadly applies to all difficulties in the set. Lunatic is pretty ridiculous at AR 9 OD 6.

Charles445 wrote:

Lunatic would be good at OD 7 I think. ok, OD7 in Lunatic diff is fine to me as well

[Colours]
Combo1 : 248,204,31
Combo2 : 216,56,56

Lust wrote:

Combo 2 is still too bright, try a bit more pastel :^)

D33d wrote:

Priti asked me to comment on the combo colours.

BeatofIke wrote:

Same with me. Anyways, the combo colors are relatively fine imo. Maybe the mapper was thinking the color Red symbolizes "Reimu" considering this is Reimu's Theme in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody (yes, I do play this game lol) since the clothes she wears is red. The color "Yellow" represents the "Ground" since the music is basically a remix of "The Ground's color is Yellow"

Charles445 wrote:

[General]
I double checked all of the map's metadata and found a problem.

In the artist, あきやまうに should be あきやま うに
The space is important to denote first and last name, also the other ranked versions do that.

That's all.

Garven wrote:

As you requested~

[General]
Tick rate 2 fits this song best ok, changed tr to 2 in every diff, thou idk if it'll increase much more difficulty of the higher diffs 0.0
The custom normal-hitnormal.wav is incredibly annoying. It sounds like a mistake when you first come across it until you realize that it's hitting on every single note.
I changed the pitch down a fifth and increased the volume a little bit to compensate. This sounds a little better to me - at least it's not incredibly annoying.
http://puu.sh/6x1xB/08d4b1ce5c.wav
I still suggest you find a better normalhitnormal or hitsound the parts that use it better. uhhhhh...... hmmmmmm...... the hormalhitnormal now is just what i really need in this map now and just what i wanna express in hitsounds, and it gives me a strong impression that i actually made all of patterns following this hitsound. i know what u mean "annoying" and i've checked ur provided hitsound, but it's just... not what i really think fit the song. as the song's beat in violin and brass's beat r so strong in every part of this song, the hitsound i've set is just keeping them in a same level in maybe melody, or feeling, or even volume. i really think the normalhitnormal feels good, thou some bat reminds me the volume of normalhitnormal is annoying before i changed lots of hitsound setting, and it's better for them right now. if u just listen to the hitsound it maybe annoying enough to most of people, but i do think it works well in this map. i really hope this can be kept.

[Normal]
I'd do OD +1 to fit more with the AR. hmm??? i think od=ar-2 is the most appreciate set in every diff thou... (not for lunatic+ diffs coz the od requires more from pros q:
00:33:351 (1) - I wouldn't recommend stacking underneath a sliderend for the easiest of the set. Also having a different rhythm like this is generally frowned upon for a Normal. There are quite a few throughout the map. See if you can fix the ones where the rhythm isn't constant going into the next note (so something like 01:12:726 (3,1) - is okay) u r right, i changed this pattern, and overlook the map to see if there're patterns like this, i hope the map is fine to this now
01:00:018 (1,2) - I guess these giant gaps are to corral the star rating in? It's a bit awkward to hit the 2 without the preceding offbeats to establish the rhythm. i have to acknowledge that the gaps do corraled the star rating, but what i really want is the rhythm expressed now here. u can see other parts in this diff and u'll always find that i usually skip those white lines' beat to make the rhythm more vivid, rather than just follow the drum which is really boring to me. i know the easiest diff don't need a diffcult rhythm for noobs to catch, but i think the rhythm now is still a piece of cake to them, with more fun. so i think this can be kept 0.0
01:46:684 (1) - Try this so it doesn't look so crumpled. Generally a 5-point slider's curve will look best (counting the beginning and the red anchor) ok fixed, maybe it's my bad habit to use lots of control points when i make a curve slider which is not an arc lol

SPOILER

02:40:018 (1) - ^ fixed as well
02:46:684 (2) - Run out of slider ideas? q: It doesn't really match the rest of the sliders for this part of the song and is more fitting for use at 02:53:350 (1) - haha alright, i changed this to another shape (i just wanna use the arc once at this part, thou it's not that good to u... q:
This is pretty borderline difficulty-wise for the easiest of the set. Even the star rating is to the point where I am wary. The back and forth style that you use is not quite as intuitive than having a more smooth flow style, which also makes me worry. yeah... the diff is the easiest diff in the mapset and people always think it should be really easy to noobs. what i thought before making this diff is just doing some maybe "normal diff's patterns" and at last the star rating is just corralled. so whatever i think the map is fine itself, but i'll watch out this really carefully next time i make the easiest diff to fit the mapset more.

[Hard]
I found this plays nicely at AR7. yeah it's made for ar7, i change it to ar8 just to fit the mapset. well, i fixed it back yeah.
00:13:143 (5,1) - I see why you did this, but it plays really weird and doesn't read so well. This Hard difficulty is already up there since you're using a ton of 1/4 rhythms. Using the 5 as a circle and the 1 as the slider afterward plays and reads a lot better. i agree with u, haven't thought of this, fixed

01:53:142 (5,1) - ^ fixed, and 00:26:476 (5,1) - as well.
00:13:976 (3,4,5) - Going from this spacing to 00:14:601 (5,1) - doesn't really make much sense musically. i see, changed this pattern.
01:53:768 (2,3,4,5) - The spacing changes here aren't nearly as bad, but it still has the same issue.^ yeah, i changed the pattern to a same one as above
00:26:476 (5,1) - Same thing as at 0:13 ^
00:55:851 (3,1,2) - Again, this spacing change isn't very intuitive. oh here i think this is just a same pattern to 00:53:768 (2,3) - yeah u r right, arranged ds
02:23:350 (1,2) - ^ ^
01:09:601 (4,1) - This jump was okay, but that you don't follow up with more jumps with that same strong strike in the song makes me kind of sad. so poor my mapping skill is... i even don't know what is good or bad... i'll watch out this next time ;w;
01:25:226 (2,3) - This looks like you ran out of room and ended up with bad spacing. :/ still have some way to fix this, here i changed this pattern and arraged ds better now.
01:30:018 (1,2,3) - These play sooo much better spread out to fit the speedup. ok~!

SPOILER

02:00:017 (1) - The first half of this kiai feels empty of extra hitsounds hmm, orz... this kiai's rhythm is just same to the 1st one's. uhh, maybe for this is just a hard diff, i didn't set so much objs, that makes u feeling empty in this part maybe 0.0

[Lunatic]
00:10:434 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - You know, I had the hardest time with these. They're simple, and I know I can play them, but just the way they're presented and the direction they change with the slider I think is the culprit. Do you think you could make them a little more similar to how you made this rhythm at 00:23:768 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - so that the direction of movement is with the jump instead of going against it? yeah~ really easy work and ur mod just remind me of this, i do can make a better composing, u can check it now and see if it's more acceptable to u :3
01:13:351 - This speed up is... well, it doesn't make that much sense. It's just a repeat of what you just played. I'd keep both of these sections identical (I prefer the faster one ;D ) Same applies to the next iteration when this repeats. hmm, the same part they r indeed, but the speed up is just for what i felt from the song. if u force this as an issue i can't say much of things, of course same sections use same sv make sense. thou at same time, same sections have different sv is also a way express the map's spirit, maybe the map it self is odd to some players, i think this changing is same to u like i said. still keep this part, hope it can be acceptable 0.0

[Extra]
00:56:684 (1,2,3) - Playing these as all circles feels a lot more visceral. uh... that means too hard? sry for my bad english knowledge in word "visceral" ;w;... if u mean the sliders start from blue lines felt strange, i can't say much of things, but for there're lots of sliders start from blue lines, i think maybe we can just regard this as a kind of pattern q:
01:27:518 (1) - ctrl g and 01:27:726 (2,3) - ctrl g these two at the same time
Flows with the back and forth motion muuuch better this way.
ahhhh...... i really don't think this is a good idea... ;w; let me explain:
1. now this map is diffcult enough, if i reverse 01:27:726 (2) - this can become a extremely hard pattern to be played to nearly all of players, for the overlap from 01:27:309 (4) - in a short time and really confuse players aimming at the correct place of the slider's head. trust me, even pros will hate me if i changed like this... ;w;
2. the flow after changed will give another feeling, it's fine to u with this jump, but after this, 01:27:934 (3,4,1) - will be a really hard work to do with their pattern's flow: after a really big jump at 01:27:518 (1,2,3) - , no matter how 4 placed and composed, it still will be a weird flow to play. what's more, it will give a larger jump while the map is already very diffcult here...
3. what i wanna express is "big jump, and small jump " in the very high tention kiai here. u can see big jump with yellow sliders and small ones with red sliders in this kiai. what's more, all of them can be read easily, still hard patterns for their big jumps thou. and it's what i felt from the song as well, the violin's melody is just telling me this q:
so... maybe i'll just keep this pattern be like this 0.0
02:16:684 (1,1) - This spacing change is really strange to me. You might be trying to signify that there is a spacing change with your different new combos here, but all it's doing is leaving me frustrated since I think there's going to be a rhythm change, not a slight spacing change since all your other circle slider 1/4 pairs are the same color in this section. See 02:13:768 (2,3,1,2) - for what I mean i know what u mean here. the pattern i set here is just to show some differences between the same rhythm patterns. the ds changing is just what the reason i set nc here actually, like how can i make the 1/4 jump more acceptable if i give a sudden ds changing. and in testing by others these patterns just work well, so i decide to keep this 0.0
02:28:768 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - Do you think you could map this so that there isn't so much overlapping going on? It's really messy right now. hmm, ok~ of course overlap is just like a mess... thou the overlap do is what i want at first. but yeah i think u r right, i'll fix all patterns like this. (except 02:48:767 (1,2,1,2,1) - this one, the overlap is just what the pattern need 0.0

01:26:684 (1) - These sections are the best part of the map once you apply the ctrl g's. hmm... ;w;

Garven wrote:

We had some additional IRC modding sessions. Normal's star rating is more fitting now, along with it playing better and visually more appealing and clarification on previous mods.

We're good to go here. Rebubbled!

Frostmourne wrote:

Just a reminder that I will mod/re-rank this evening (approximately 4-5 hours)
Sorry if it takes your time a bit.

Frostmourne wrote:

Just a reminder that I will mod/re-rank this evening (approximately 4-5 hours)
Sorry if it takes your time a bit.

Priti wrote:

Lust wrote:

Combo 2 is still too bright, try a bit more pastel :^)

The combo color previews are awkward tbh, these look more pastelish and rustic ingame.

@HW: You kinda said the same about the AR but due to the obvious choice of the players, it was changed.
Again, you should understand, this is about giving the players the best playing experience, not raising your ego by making your ideas ranked.