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Raujika - Cry More

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Topic Starter
Broccoly

UnitedWeSin wrote:

Hi Broccoly. :)

AR9 is necessary imo. agreed

[Insane]

  1. 00:20:571 - Make sure to resnap the delayed break. done
  2. 00:32:501 (1,1) - If you could reduce some distance there, that would be great. placed white 1 in a different place
  3. 00:49:202 - Needs to be 15% volume on the end like the other sliders. fixed
  4. 01:03:676 (1) - Whistle missing on head? fixed
  5. 01:04:704 (1,2) - I'd like it moved up a bit for nicer flow. Try it. real nice. thanks!
  6. 01:15:667 (3) - Needs 1 grid left to equalize the spacing in this anti-jump pattern.fixed
  7. 01:17:037 (1) - Missed whistle on the head. Also if you don't like this placement, you can revert back and try something more like this:tried reverting back.. dunno if that's good enough..
    Example

    I think it played better this way tbh. It's nice to have some spacing between them. yeah same
  8. 01:29:713 (1,1) - For consistency purposes I'd like to move the slow down slider to 01:30:055. That's what the player will be expecting here. Mainly it's consistent with 01:32:111 (1). for this I'd like to keep it since it plays well nevertheless, and i really like the pattern myself...
  9. 01:30:226 - Something strange going on with the volume here, I think you forgot to bring it back up. my bad
  10. 01:43:791 (1) - Could be nicer if you started the spinner in 1/4 at 01:43:834. i don't like that empty feeling between 1/4... that's why i used 1/8 to minimize that..
  11. 01:44:615 - Don't change the SV in the middle of the spinner. It would be nicer to move this timing section to 01:44:786. done
  12. 01:59:175 - Need to resnap the ending of the break to here. good catch
  13. 02:17:332 (1,1) - If you could reduce some spacing there it would be nice, it's extremely difficult not to get a 100 on the first slider. Maybe you could curve 02:17:674 (1) more. curved 02:17:674 (1) more
  14. 02:27:609 (3) - Move to (332,236) plays really nice and fits with your style here. fixed
  15. 02:28:979 (1) - 3/4 slider feels bad here because it's inconsistent with patterns before like 02:20:757 (1,2,3) where the music was the same. I'd like you to shorten this slider by 1/4. I'd like to keep this.. it gives a rather refreshing and not-boring flow imo..
  16. 02:30:007 (1) - Same idea, the 3/4 doesn't fit, it would play much better if you extended this slider by 1/4. this i fixed
  17. 02:50:562 - Add a note and move the spinner 1/4 forward plays really nicely. Try it. added a note, but spinner 1/8.

[Normal]

  1. 00:22:224 (1) - Remove whistle sounds much better for me.
  2. 00:20:571 - Resnap delayed break.
  3. 01:59:175 - Resnap the break ending.

    normal all fixed
For the most part I'm alright with the slowdowns because you mark them with the grey color. I just found some of your 3/4 to be overmapped and not so great. Other than that just watch the spacing after those slowdowns because it can get pretty tricky. This is pretty much it from me. I'm not sure if Shiro wants to mod it or not. Call me back I'll do a recheck.
Thank a ton UWS. Your mod was really helpful. you get right on to the things i didn't catch... wow.
Topic Starter
Broccoly
all updated except for softboxer diff
waiting for sp3 to respond :)
spboxer3
http://puu.sh/57f0Y.osu
fixed all, thank you UWS ;)
Topic Starter
Broccoly
all updated
ktgster
Going to have to disregard all things here.

[General]

I really don't see the needs to name your insane "Broccoly" as it really just doesn't say anything about and its your own map in the first place.
What is Softboxer suppose to be, soft insane, hard, if its the former, then you don't have a hard completing the set.

[Broccoly]

AR -1, this is pretty much AR 10 with your note density, AR 8 plays fine already plus this is pretty calm to warrant AR 8.

00:24:279 (1) - now this isn't even worth asking, its pretty much unreadable as it camouflages looking like a 1/2 slider. Even if you do NC with a specfic color, it just feels forced in and the SV change doesn't even make sense in the first place. To this pitch, wouldn't you increase it instead? This applies to all other sliders like this
00:27:362 (3,1) - I really don't understand this extended slider here, it plays off and its overmapped too plus it feels forced to begin with
00:32:501 (1) - same as 00:24:279 (1)
00:35:927 (1,2) - bad overlap
00:37:297 (3,4) - same as 00:27:362 (3,1)
00:43:806 (1) - this is also a dumb usage of slider but even worse. You are literally using a slow SV on this part which doesn't even change pitch at all. It makes no sense in the first place and what you did before is a circle here before. Remove it
00:48:945 (1) - again, don't do this
00:52:371 (1,2,3) - this is the only time you do this for this whole map, 00:52:714 (2) - is also the only linear 3/4 slider here which I don't get why you do this, at least make them all 1/2's or make (2) a 1/2 using something other than linear
00:54:426 (1,2) - remove 2 and extend 1 to where 2 was. Also no point for this slow down
00:56:482 (1) - I don't mind this at all but I don't see any usage of streams as they do fit quite nicely
00:56:482 (1,2) - horrible spacing, use 1.28x spacing instead
01:02:648 (1,1) - ^
01:04:704 (1,2) - probably the most fitting for a stream
01:09:843 (1) - nazi but stack this slider end more properly
01:10:870 (1) - why clap at the end of the slider
01:13:611 (1) - zzzz the sliders again
01:14:981 (1,2,3) - I honestly think this ruins the pacing as you're pretty much waiting when the whole time you have been moving your cursor nonstop
01:16:694 (1) - no just no
01:21:833 (1) - yet again
01:24:916 (1,2) - ^ but the 2 doesn't really warrant a slow down
01:28:856 (2,3) - this breaks your flow pretty badly, something like this will work well

01:29:713 (1) - again
01:32:111 (1) - remove due for the same reasons as 00:43:806 (1)
01:37:935 (1) - yeah...
01:43:416 (1) - just replace this with 2 1/1 circles, this is just a dumb slider usage in the first place
01:43:801 (1) - make it start 1/4 early instead of 1/8
02:11:165 (1) - ....
02:15:961 (1) - do something other than this as this also just plays bad
02:17:332 (1) - now this is just trolling here. If you were consistant with the other parts like this, why the sudden change and for little reason at all
02:19:387 (1) - the song goes stronger in this kiai, you're still doing tricks here when the fact that for the rest of this kiai, you did no such thing making this the only slider in this kiai thats like this
02:21:100 (2) - reverse 2 with slider end (Ctrl + G)
02:24:526 (3) - ^
02:28:979 (1,2) - this plays bad and breaks your flow. It also feels forced too. Just reverse the 2
02:35:831 (2) - try doing something where this thing doesn't overlap, heck circles might be a viable option here
02:42:854 (1,2,3) - I really don't get why you do this, you just put a random pattern there and be done. This is also the only part where this may require AR 9 but AR 8 already plays well for the whole map that its better to find something different for this
02:44:053 (3) - can't you find somewhere else to place this
02:50:562 (5) - NC
02:50:605 (1) - make this 1/4 apart

[SoftBoxer]

This is honestly really hard to read and thats due to AR 7 and very random spacing that honestly don't make sense in the first place. It's more of a soft insane than a hard and if its suppose to be that, wheres the hard?
Honestly, you need to learn to have some sort of consistant spacing. This is modded as soft insane otherwise half of your notes would have been changed.

AR +1 as its just hard to read in the first place.

00:03:103 (1) - just stack this on the next 1
00:04:622 (3,4) - looks like 1/2, AR 7 makes this really look like 1/2
00:13:736 (3,4) - ^
00:20:191 (7) - dumb overlapping
00:20:666 (1) - end your spinner here. If its too short, just don't map it then
00:23:080 (3,4,5) - please don't do this
00:42:093 (3,4) - very tight spacing yet you forced it. If anything, you should move the 2 to the right more and create space for this part
00:48:089 (3,4) - please make this spacing farther
00:56:482 (5,6,7) - this is a part where you pretty much call it soft insane, its not even a hard anymore with this pattern
01:00:593 (4,5,6) - couldn't you do something like this to the one above
01:31:083 (1) - why NC?
01:44:786 (1) - random clap
02:05:341 (1,2,1) - no, 1 covers the next 1 due to the combo colors, its pretty much not readable and requires reaction or memory to do well on, practically unrankable
02:24:868 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - this is pretty much forced in as its not really readable to begin with
02:50:562 (5) - bad overlap

Even with me modding it as soft insane, probably half of your map would have been changed regardless. NCing makes no sense and is not consistent, spacing is inconsistent. What I see in this difficulty is more of neatness and how it looks but this also has to be playable at a certain degree.
spboxer3

ktgster wrote:

[SoftBoxer]

This is honestly really hard to read and thats due to AR 7 and very random spacing that honestly don't make sense in the first place. It's more of a soft insane than a hard and if its suppose to be that, wheres the hard?
Honestly, you need to learn to have some sort of consistant spacing. This is modded as soft insane otherwise half of your notes would have been changed.

AR +1 as its just hard to read in the first place.

00:03:103 (1) - just stack this on the next 1
00:04:622 (3,4) - looks like 1/2, AR 7 makes this really look like 1/2
00:13:736 (3,4) - ^
-Have newcombo, problem? that's won't make player confuse because have NC and enough AR
00:20:191 (7) - dumb overlapping nazi fixed
00:20:666 (1) - end your spinner here. If its too short, just don't map it then where? you didn't give me your timing
00:23:080 (3,4,5) - please don't do this why? please give me your reason, I don't want make my diff only follow the flow
00:42:093 (3,4) - very tight spacing yet you forced it. If anything, you should move the 2 to the right more and create space for this part k
00:48:089 (3,4) - please make this spacing farther no, make spacing farther will break my graph
00:56:482 (5,6,7) - this is a part where you pretty much call it soft insane, its not even a hard anymore with this pattern
01:00:593 (4,5,6) - couldn't you do something like this to the one above
01:31:083 (1) - why NC? make 01:30:398 (1,1) - more clear to read and follow the music, problem?
01:44:786 (1) - random clap k remove
02:05:341 (1,2,1) - no, 1 covers the next 1 due to the combo colors, its pretty much not readable and requires reaction or memory to do well on, practically unrankable ahahah what? or why other BAT can bubble it or ranked it? even they aren't mention it? sorry, but it's rankanle.
02:24:868 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - this is pretty much forced in as its not really readable to begin with keep it, as I said before I don't want make the diff "only follow the flow" make follow the flow only it's very bored. you can copy other mapper's Hard to apply it... It's not have any sense imo
02:50:562 (5) - bad overlap keep

Even with me modding it as soft insane, probably half of your map would have been changed regardless. NCing makes no sense and is not consistent, spacing is inconsistent. What I see in this difficulty is more of neatness and how it looks but this also has to be playable at a certain degree.
thx your mod ;)
http://puu.sh/57hxH.osu
Slow-ru



HelloSCV
i have no idea why ktgster thinks so negatively, and i can't understand why people pointed out the diff name "Broccoly". Using mapper name as diff name is using typically among mappers

ktgster wrote:

Even with me modding it as soft insane, probably half of your map would have been changed regardless. NCing makes no sense and is not consistent, spacing is inconsistent. What I see in this difficulty is more of neatness and how it looks but this also has to be playable at a certain degree.
i think most of NCs are still working, NCs are placed because of changing rhythm , distance and slider velocity and i really disagree with having consistence spacing (how boring), this diff isn't Easy diff this diff can have jumps or anti-jumps because it's "Insane" diff, don't be silly

make sure you modded this map because you want to improve map's quality, not express your dissatisfaction. If you think some patterns are really bad, write down the solution, NOT posting like "this looks like shit"

i hope to see this in ranked beatmap

아 한가지 덧붙이자면, 01:25:249 (2) - 여기에도 뉴콤보 넣으시는게 좋을듯, 하얀색은 0.5 배속에만 쓰신거 같은데여기는 0.75배속이라 넣는게 나아보여요
HabiHolic
오프셋도 전에꺼하고 10 을 올렸을때하고 별 차이는 없는것 같아요
근데 왜 언랭인건지 모르겠네요.. 이건 너무 어이없게 내려간 듯 합니다
captin1

HelloSCV wrote:

make sure you modded this map because you want to improve map's quality, not express your dissatisfaction. If you think some patterns are really bad, write down the solution, NOT posting like "this looks like shit"
quote of the day, well said
Topic Starter
Broccoly

ktgster wrote:

Going to have to disregard all things here.

[General]

I really don't see the needs to name your insane "Broccoly" as it really just doesn't say anything about and its your own map in the first place.
What is Softboxer suppose to be, soft insane, hard, if its the former, then you don't have a hard completing the set. naming's free. i had this discussion with the former map. softboxer's hard+

[Broccoly]

AR -1, this is pretty much AR 10 with your note density, AR 8 plays fine already plus this is pretty calm to warrant AR 8. ar9 plays better

00:24:279 (1) - now this isn't even worth asking, its pretty much unreadable as it camouflages looking like a 1/2 slider. Even if you do NC with a specfic color, it just feels forced in and the SV change doesn't even make sense in the first place. To this pitch, wouldn't you increase it instead? This applies to all other sliders like this wait, increase the sv on those sliders? i don't think that fits the music
00:27:362 (3,1) - I really don't understand this extended slider here, it plays off and its overmapped too plus it feels forced to begin with the pitch that starts on 00:27:362 - is continuous till the next pitch comes in. If i were to make it 1/2 then there'd be an awkward pause between that and the next slider
00:32:501 (1) - same as 00:24:279 (1) fun rhythmic variation
00:35:927 (1,2) - bad overlap plz explain when you are using subjective words like bad. how am i supposed to fix when i mapped it thinking that's good?
00:37:297 (3,4) - same as 00:27:362 (3,1) ^
00:43:806 (1) - this is also a dumb usage of slider but even worse. You are literally using a slow SV on this part which doesn't even change pitch at all. It makes no sense in the first place and what you did before is a circle here before. Remove it music is subjective to interpretation; i think it fits decently to the music
00:48:945 (1) - again, don't do this
00:52:371 (1,2,3) - this is the only time you do this for this whole map, 00:52:714 (2) - is also the only linear 3/4 slider here which I don't get why you do this, at least make them all 1/2's or make (2) a 1/2 using something other than linear what's wrong with linear 3/4? also they fit well to the music
00:54:426 (1,2) - remove 2 and extend 1 to where 2 was. Also no point for this slow down ehh.....that looks rather silly
00:56:482 (1) - I don't mind this at all but I don't see any usage of streams as they do fit quite nicely stream feels more rigid than a repeat slider, which gives more soft texture
00:56:482 (1,2) - horrible spacing, use 1.28x spacing instead when using a fast-multiple-repeated slider, the player can't expect as well when to let go; the close spacing is to prevent sliderbreaking during that letting-go process
01:02:648 (1,1) - ^ ^
01:04:704 (1,2) - probably the most fitting for a stream ^
01:09:843 (1) - nazi but stack this slider end more properly they don't even overlap when playing, but fixed
01:10:870 (1) - why clap at the end of the slider sounds good to me
01:13:611 (1) - zzzz the sliders again
01:14:981 (1,2,3) - I honestly think this ruins the pacing as you're pretty much waiting when the whole time you have been moving your cursor nonstop pace variation; refreshing effect
01:16:694 (1) - no just no
01:21:833 (1) - yet again
01:24:916 (1,2) - ^ but the 2 doesn't really warrant a slow down ya but i want to use it
01:28:856 (2,3) - this breaks your flow pretty badly, something like this will work well good suggestion actually, but 2 easy like that

01:29:713 (1) - again
01:32:111 (1) - remove due for the same reasons as 00:43:806 (1)
01:37:935 (1) - yeah...
01:43:416 (1) - just replace this with 2 1/1 circles, this is just a dumb slider usage in the first place who defines dumb
01:43:801 (1) - make it start 1/4 early instead of 1/8 ok
02:11:165 (1) - .... modding is easy
02:15:961 (1) - do something other than this as this also just plays bad
02:17:332 (1) - now this is just trolling here. If you were consistant with the other parts like this, why the sudden change and for little reason at all the 'hold' moment right before the climax; builds up tension
02:19:387 (1) - the song goes stronger in this kiai, you're still doing tricks here when the fact that for the rest of this kiai, you did no such thing making this the only slider in this kiai thats like this yeah that part isn't strong yet enough even though it's kiai. i didn't use it after that because it ruins the excitement
-------
02:21:100 (2) - reverse 2 with slider end (Ctrl + G)
02:24:526 (3) - ^
02:28:979 (1,2) - this plays bad and breaks your flow. It also feels forced too. Just reverse the 2
02:35:831 (2) - try doing something where this thing doesn't overlap, heck circles might be a viable option here
02:42:854 (1,2,3) - I really don't get why you do this, you just put a random pattern there and be done. This is also the only part where this may require AR 9 but AR 8 already plays well for the whole map that its better to find something different for this
------ already discussed with uws. no fix-----
02:44:053 (3) - can't you find somewhere else to place this i'll ask broccoli
02:50:562 (5) - NC fixed
02:50:605 (1) - make this 1/4 apart fixed
slowdowns kept
some fixed
read HelloSCV's post plz
but thanks for the time man I appreciate your effort but apparently and sadly our views differ
Zero__wind

ktgster wrote:

Going to have to disregard all things here. I'm just here giving my own opinions, not aiming at anyone
[Broccoly]

AR -1, this is pretty much AR 10 with your note density, AR 8 plays fine already plus this is pretty calm to warrant AR 8.
AR9 feels right to this map as it currently is.
Plz know that AR should never be decided by BPM, but the map instead
when players have to keep performing jumps like that in this diff, AR9 makes the readability much better
it would prevent players being swamped with too many hit objects at a time and messing up
Besides, if you're talking about the BPM, you also should consider this map as a 190+ BPM map as it's just simply been made to be like so
So also to Shiro, it doesn't matter if the song is calm, the difficulty setting is based on the map, rather than the song
You may say how could Broccoly made such a map like this for a calm song, yeah then that's about the understanding about the music
You may make a really soft and gentle map which would even fits AR7 nicely while the mapper here may conprehend the song differently
The map is already made and you may show no appreciation to it and that's free for everyone but that's non of the business of the map's AR setting
As the map is currently like this, the AR should be at 9 with no doubt
Pretty Rhythm

HabiHolic wrote:

오프셋도 전에꺼하고 10 을 올렸을때하고 별 차이는 없는것 같아요
근데 왜 언랭인건지 모르겠네요.. 이건 너무 어이없게 내려간 듯 합니다
Gloria Guard
I think this unranked issue more detailed description is needed

Give me an exact point where the patterns or jumps feel awkward. Also, you mentioned that the reading is difficult, but is that what most of the players really said, or is it just your opinion?
I want to know why you reasoned out that the patterns and jumps affect the reading, objectively, not subjectively.
Topic Starter
Broccoly
updated.
sorry for causing such mess

However,

Shiro wrote:

- the spacing feels completely erratic
- the map uses AR9 for a song that is described by the mapper themselves as "calm"
- the map uses highly inconsistent extended sliders some of which are slowed down and with jumps afterwards which makes the map extremely confusing to read and awkward to play
1. the spacing 'feels' completely erratic?
- that verb is very subjective; is that how you decide unrankable stuff? based on how one BAT 'feels' about it?

2. the map uses AR9 for a song that is described by the mapper themselves as "calm"
- Give me a link to ranking criteria where it says this is unrankable, not to mention that I never described the map as 'calm'. The BPM is over 170, and I don't see any reason why I can't use AR9 and why you can't use AR9 in a calm song

3. the map uses highly inconsistent extended sliders ~~ 'extremely confusing to read and awkward to play'
- 'extremely confusing to read and awkward to play' to whom? There were tons of FCers and SSers. Also, the map has once already been ranked ; the only reason for the unrank should have been the offset.
This has happened before in Zips - Mushikui Psychedelism. The original reason for unranking was only the tags and hitsounds, but the BATs didn't rank it even after I fixed those, but kept on urging me to fix the 'silly-bad-flow-shit' sliders. Is that how you guys deal with the 'bad' maps? First unranking with tags, hitsounds and offsets, and then almost force the mapper to fix the things that you guys don't want to see in the map? Ne bis in idem.
(no offense to the BATs who supported me)

Yeah. I don't think it's fair how you guys deal with these problems.
Dark Fang
btw, I have no idea why this is has been unranked.
Were the thoughts objective? or were they only a few BAT's subjective thought?
i can't find unrankable reason except offset -it's possible use online offset- there are also problems in the unranked post.

the First reason that - "the spacing feels completely erratic", that's true. but why is it unrankable? we should respect the mappers. Broccoly diff has been already ranked once, and the problems are not significantly serious. do the mappers have to map being pressured like this?

the Second reason that - "the map uses AR9 for a song that is described by the mapper themselves as "calm", certainly Broccoly wrote "slow song" on creator's word. but is AR must follow that? it's stereotypes. I can say "AR 9 is proper for this map". it's hard to read? do blame your eye-hand coordination. most players feel AR 9 is fun more than AR 8. and this is not unrankable reason.

the Third reason that - "the map uses highly inconsistent extended sliders some of which are slowed down and with jumps afterwards which makes the map extremely confusing to read and awkward to play", ah. be honest, I don't even know what to say. it's a little bit unplayable to some of the few players, but not unrankable. at least not unplayable for me. Actually, most people enjoyed and were interested in this map
Come[Back]Home
People should accept other mappingstyles. Otherwise every Map would be the same, with always the same patterns etc.
I really loved to play this Map, nothing was wrong there. Its just so sad that this is unranked just because some Bat didnt liked it.
silmarilen
sure the SV change sliders caught me off-guard the first time, but i still sightread 300d them and SSed the map in the end, i dont recognize any of the issues (except for the offset)
Sonnyc
또 언랭이라니

We've got a universal offset. Believe there was a more crucial issue :3
Kodora

Vpalach wrote:

i just wish, that some day there won't be any unranking ever :|
Shiro
you guys get it all wrong wow I'm not even surprised it's really sad
maybe one day you'll stop swearing by "unrankable "unrankable" "unrankable" and try to understand points without being offended because someone doesn't think your map is perfect

Erratic spacing is in theory unrankable, except it's been let through the net for years and now people assume that spacing just doesn't exist.

The fact that the mapper describes the song as calm slow, then makes a map that goes entirely against that idea, is a problem because it's a deep inconsistency between the mapper's idea of the song and their map. I am not capable of reading minds, and when I see that the mapper considers a song calm, then goes on to make a highly jumpy, gimmicky and unflowy map, something went wrong in the process. Calling people bad players won't get you anywhere, especially when it's based on absolutely nothing (I could read this fine in both AR8 and AR9, except AR9 feels extremely anti climatic, despite the surprisingly fast kind of mapping the map uses).

The slowdowns and jumps can be classified as abuse of the slider speed change feature because it makes things purposely confusing which is not something that should be done. After giving the entire map a bit more thinking I'm actually fine with a few of the slowdowns because I found that they fit in some way, but some of them feel abusive (see below).

Now onto more direct quotes:

Broccoly wrote:

is that how you decide unrankable stuff?
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/146542

Broccoly wrote:

I never described the map as 'calm'
You actually didn't use the word calm; however

op wrote:

So beautiful that I had to map even though I usually don't map slow songs"

Broccoly wrote:

There were tons of FCers and SSers
Which absolutely doesn't mean that the map was intuitive and all. Players nowadays can FC anything, so judging how good a map plays on that is stupid. You can just call your own circle of friends and ask them all to post in this thread insulting BATs, but it will never do anything.

Broccoly wrote:

Also, the map has once already been ranked
And shouldn't have been, which is why it was unranked.

Come[Back]Home wrote:

People should accept other mappingstyles. Otherwise every Map would be the same, with always the same patterns etc.
It's already the case, actually. All maps seem to have lost any kind of notion of spacing to try to go for snappy inconsistent jumps and rhythms because that's what "players like".

Now onto the map.

I can safely say that what ticks me off the most in this is that the map obviously tries to have structure, but fails to follow it. I'm going to focus on that because it would make the map absolutely awesome if it was a bit more consistent and structured.

After a single testplay of the Broccoly diff I can say that the spacing is difficult to relate to the song. It is inconsistent and doesn't seem to follow any kind of logic based on it. The rhythm themselves feel disconnected as well. The song has a very clear beat - why am I clicking a different rhythm ? Where's the song in the map ? Is it a background sound you used to go with your own composition (which is nothing wrong, don't misunderstand, but I would at least like to know if you tried to follow the song or tried to add your own ideas into it) ? Based on the name I supposed you tried to add your own thing, but why is it so inconsistent ? And before you attack me for being a bad player and hating your map, I didn't *hate* this, but I do think it could be a lot better and that's why I'm here.
Anyway, I'll be modding that based on that assumption, so get ready for a ton of suggestions and balance/consistency fixes. Whether or not you follow them is at your own discretion, but don't be conceited and take the time to read them and try them.

First of all, the slow sliders. I like the idea of using 3/4 for some beats. It extends the beat in a nice and fitting way, but the fact that almost every single of the 3/4 used is a slowdown+jump kills this idea and makes it less important, not to mention that it's used inconsistently which makes it feel worse. Here's what I suggest: keep the slowdown+jump on a certain rhythm to emphasize it and keep the other 3/4 at a normal length and spacing. The 3/4 does feel good numerous times, but the fact that everything is emphasized means that nothing gets actually emphasized anymore and that feels awkward. So I suggest to keep the slowdown and jump on some of them, keeping the jumps at the same spacing for consistency and because it gives the map a pattern it follows, which gives it a nice structure, like a spine bone it's attached to. I'm talking about this pattern: 00:24:279 (1,1) - (let's call it the bone pattern) which I think should be used for every single of these rhythms for the reasons I described in this wall of text. The idea that you should basically copypaste the pattern is important because it makes the structure perfect. In the song, the same exact notes come back roughly every 8-9 seconds and I firmly believe that if the map follows that it would feel a lot better. That means all of these:
00:32:501 (1,1) -
00:40:723 (1,2) - turn the second beat into a 1/1 slider like 00:24:279 (1,1) -
00:48:945 (1,1) - the first one should be reversed to be consistent
00:57:167 (1,1) -
01:05:389 (3,1) - Turn this one into a slowdown+jump like 00:24:279 (1,1) -
01:13:611 (1,1) -
01:21:833 (1,1) -
01:30:055 (1,2) -
01:38:277 (1,2) -
02:02:943 (1,1) -
02:11:165 (1,1) -
02:19:387 (1,1) -
02:27:609 (3,1) -
02:35:831 (2,1) -
02:44:053 (3,1) -
02:48:164 (2,1) -

Any other 3/4 should not be slowed down to make sure that these get particular emphasis. Let's see every 3/4 use in the map that I didn't already point out:
00:27:362 (3,1) - this 3/4 is good. The rhythm at this point is similar to the ones you've tried to highlight, but it's not the one you try to highlight, so the fact that this isn't slowed down makes it feels less emphasized than those while still having its own unique feeling. That's good and that's what you should have gone through
00:37:297 (3,4) - This one however doesn't follow anything and feels out of place. The song doesn't go for anything special at this point, so there's no point in emphasizing something that doesn't exist. You should have kept this a 1/2 slider.
00:43:806 (1,1) - If you look at how the song is made, you'll realize that this is exactly the same rhythm as 00:27:362 (3,1) and as such, it should follow the same train of thought. However, you decided to slow down this one which is inconsistent and breaks the slowdown pattern you've been trying to use. A 3/4 here would be awesome and fit, just like 00:27:362 (3,1) - but the slowdown+jump is out of place. Please remove it and use normal spacing, like 00:27:362 (3,1) -
00:52:371 (1,2,3) - inconsistent spacing here and that looks absolutely horrible. the problem here is that the use of 3/4 is inconsistent within those three objects. Listen carefully to the song: it has some kind of microbreak right on 00:52:371 (1) - then goes fur sustained, flowy notes for 00:52:714 (2,3) - . Your map goes for sustain, slowly notes for 00:52:371 (1,2) - and a microbreak with 00:53:056 (3) - . What I suggest is to make 00:52:371 (1) - a 1/2 slider and 00:53:056 (3) - a 3/4 slider to follow the song more accurately
01:16:694 (1,1) - See 00:27:362 (3,1) - . The song basically restarts at this point - why does your map follow completely different ideas ? Just look back at what you did in the beginning and follow the same logic. I'm not asking to copypaste, and you can make the spacing a bit wider or change the jump configuration because this part is a bit more emphasized in the song, but the logic behind it should stay consistent
01:29:713 (1) - why not. It feels a bit anticlimatic and inconsistent because you never used 3/4 before the pattern I pointed out first, and shifts the focus from it onto this kickslider+slider, which feels quite wrong if you want to follow and consistent pattern and structure. I'd suggest to make this a 1/2 slider, but at least remove the slowdown
01:31:768 (2) - This should be a 3/4 slider. Notice how the song builds a momentum into 01:32:111 (1) - ? You don't translate that momentum because of this lone circle which breaks your flow and doesn't let the map continue and build into the slider. Having a 3/4 slider here would keep the flow going and build the momentum into the bone pattern of the map
01:37:935 (1) - See 01:29:713 (1) -
02:15:961 (1,1) - You're using the bone pattern at a place where it doesn't fit, and that screws your attempt to build momentum. A slowdown could work here, but only if it's a 1/1 slider, otherwise you're adding the bone pattern at a wrong point and it screws the structure of the map. I honestly suggest using a slowed down 1/1 slider with a circle at 02:16:475 - and then use jumps for 02:16:475 (2,1,2,3,4) -
02:17:332 (1,1) - once again you use the bone pattern where it doesn't belong, and right before its righteous place too, which makes the actual bone pattern feel insignifican. The first slider should be 1/2 and not slowed down to make sure that this doesn't happen
02:29:322 (2) - this slider being reversed is very confusing and plays awfully because you have to rush to its head, then go back to where it ends, and then you jump back to the right into (3) that goes back to the left again. Reversing this one would make the flow 02:28:979 (1,2,3) - a lot better because you'd get a standard flow from (1) to (2) and then an oval flow from (2) to (3) which leads properly into (1) and that's absolutely awesome. Let me draw you pics to show you what I mean because it's important: what you have and what I suggest

That's it for the 3/4. Now let's have a look at your comboing, which is highly inconsistent as well. If you listen to the song you'll realize that the main theme, repeated through the entire song, fits in two stanzas, which means that the best comboing you could go for would be one new combo every second white tick. The beginning follows this in the first few seconds, then you get lost and starting adding unneeded new combos.
00:03:483 (2) - you could add a new combo on this but it's not needed
00:11:457 (1) - remove
00:16:014 (1) - remove
00:19:432 (1) - remove

Now that we got this pattern in mind, let's have a look at the rest of the map. It should follow the same pattern because the song doesn't change the way it's made, so neither should the map and the comboing. Before you say that you're breaking the comboing of the bone pattern, please follow this until the end - let's do this step by step. first, let's make the entire comboing consistent regardless of the bone pattern:
00:22:224 (1,1) - whatever you choose for this, make sure it's the same as 00:03:103 (1,2) -
00:23:594 (1,1) - remove these
00:25:649 (1) - remove
00:27:705 (1) - remove
00:29:760 (1) - remove
00:31:816 (1,1) - remove
00:33:871 (1) - remove
00:35:927 (1) - remove
00:37:982 (1) - remove
00:40:038 (1,1) - remove
00:41:066 (9) - add a new combo here and remove 00:41:408 (1) -
00:42:093 (1) - remove
00:43:806 (1,1) - remove
00:46:204 (1) - remove
00:48:260 (1) - remove
00:48:945 (1) - remove
00:50:315 (1) - remove
00:52:371 (1) - remove
00:54:426 (1) - remove
00:56:482 (1,1) - remove
00:58:537 (1) - remove
01:00:593 (1) - remove
01:02:648 (1,1) - remove
01:04:704 (1) - remove
01:06:759 (1) - remove
01:08:815 (1) - remove
01:10:870 (1) - remove
01:12:926 (1,1) - remove
01:14:981 (1) - remove
01:16:694 (1,1) - remove
01:19:092 (1) - remove
01:21:148 (1,1) - remove
01:23:203 (1) - remove
01:24:916 (1) - remove
01:27:314 (1) - remove
01:29:370 (1,1) - remove and add a new one on 01:30:398 (2) -
01:31:425 (1,1) - remove
01:33:481 (1) - remove
01:35:536 (1) - remove
01:37:592 (1,1) - remove
01:39:647 (1) - remove
01:41:703 (1) - remove
01:43:416 (1) - remove
02:02:258 (1,1) - remove
02:04:313 (1) - remove
02:06:369 (1) - remove
02:08:424 (1) - remove
02:10:480 (1,1) - remove
02:12:535 (1) - remove
02:14:591 (1) - remove
02:15:961 (1,1,1) - remove
02:18:702 (1,1) - remove
02:20:757 (1) - remove
02:22:813 (1) - remove
02:24:868 (1) - remove
02:26:924 (1) - remove
02:28:979 (1) - remove
02:31:035 (1) - remove
02:32:405 (1,1) - remove
02:35:146 (1) - remove
02:37:201 (1) - remove
02:39:257 (1) - remove
02:41:312 (1) - remove
02:42:854 (1,1) - remove
02:45:423 (1) - remove
02:47:479 (1) - remove
02:49:534 (1) - remove

Okay, now that we have the basic structure of the song pinned done through the comboing, let's take a look back and look at where I asked you to use the bone pattern. If you count combos by groups of four, you'll realize that the bone pattern is always used on the second of those four new combos. This is because it's how the song is made the structure I asked you to add through the comboing and bone pattern emphasizes it perfectly. Now, if you want to add a specific comboing for it (like make a new combo for each slider of it), you can, and it will still be consistent.

I think I'm going to stop there, that's already a lot of work. I'd have a lot more to say in terms of patterns and rhythm, and I haven't even looked at the other diffs yet, but you can use everything that I said here and apply it to the other diffs. Please do not hesitate to call me back if you want me to mod the rest of it (including patterns and stuff), I will happily do so. Good luck.
Seph
H
OL
Y
SH
IT

Shiro
Marcin
I demand a modder contest, and I want Shiro to win.
Hanabi
Topic Starter
Broccoly
fml

Ephemeral wrote:

A map may be unranked by any BAT if there are elements within the map that are of particular concern from either a subjective or objective standpoint.
I don't have enough time right now to respond (I will later today), but that's just shit. "A single BAT can unrank a map based on a subjective standpoint". That's an overuse of power, and the evidence that there are unignorable discrepancies, and I mean serious discrepancy which causes unranking, between BATs who are supposed to be standing in a rather objective standpoint considering they are like public officials. Give me any map that has been ranked and I can give some modding with real cool looking music theory, and make it sound unrankable.

I'll respond to the mod tonight tho.
Thanks for taking your time to do this.
Zare
Hi, my humble opinion:
The map is awesome, but like Shiro said, far too inconsistent when it comes to the slowdowns. Please listen to her and take your time to rework your structure a bit.
Also when taking a look at your NCs, please keep in mind how NC spam affects the HP drain of your map. The more dense you put NCs the higher gets the Drain for the overall map, so in order to make this playable HR for not only thelewa, reducing the NC spam a bit will be a huge improvement.

About the AR: 9 is okay, this is 175 BPM and has rather complex patterns, why would anyone enforce AR8 here?

Very fun map whatsoever, please rerank fast.
Topic Starter
Broccoly
Part of me just want them to nuke this -_-
Topic Starter
Broccoly

Zarerion wrote:

Hi, my humble opinion:
The map is awesome, but like Shiro said, far too inconsistent when it comes to the slowdowns. Please listen to her and take your time to rework your structure a bit.
Also when taking a look at your NCs, please keep in mind how NC spam affects the HP drain of your map. The more dense you put NCs the higher gets the Drain for the overall map, so in order to make this playable HR for not only thelewa, reducing the NC spam a bit will be a huge improvement.

About the AR: 9 is okay, this is 175 BPM and has rather complex patterns, why would anyone enforce AR8 here?

Very fun map whatsoever, please rerank fast.
Thanks for the advice
Garven
Zarerion misinterpreted how HP Drain and new combos work. Basically when you have a new combo, the last note of the previous combo gives an HP boost. So if you have tons of new combos in a short amount of time, it gives a huge boost to HP, not increases the rate of HP drain. This causes an imbalance of drain and actually makes the map artificially easy unless you have a large span of section that is sparse in rhythm. Using new combos to highlight some new portion of a pattern that would be harder to read otherwise is frowned upon since it's indicative of poor design rather than trying to highlight a certain part of the song (you'll want your new combos to be consistent throughout your own maps like Kiai toggles).

As for the unranking policy, it's all about quality control. Some things go through, some don't. Yours didn't. If you feel that another recently ranked map should be unranked, please let a BAT know and we can evaluate your concern.
Zare

Garven wrote:

Zarerion misinterpreted how HP Drain and new combos work. Basically when you have a new combo, the last note of the previous combo gives an HP boost. So if you have tons of new combos in a short amount of time, it gives a huge boost to HP, not increases the rate of HP drain. This causes an imbalance of drain and actually makes the map artificially easy unless you have a large span of section that is sparse in rhythm. Using new combos to highlight some new portion of a pattern that would be harder to read otherwise is frowned upon since it's indicative of poor design rather than trying to highlight a certain part of the song (you'll want your new combos to be consistent throughout your own maps like Kiai toggles).
Uhm, Garven, no, i didn't misunderstand. NC density has an effect on the drain of the map. Repeated NC spam will make the drain rocket up, while putting no NCs at all will reduce the drain to a minimum. The HP boost NCs give is just a side effect.
Garven

Zarerion wrote:

The more dense you put NCs the higher gets the Drain for the overall map, so in order to make this playable HR for not only thelewa, reducing the NC spam a bit will be a huge improvement.
You got it backwards in your first post, bub. q: That and the way you worded it makes it seem like the rate of drain changes as opposed to the rate of HP recovery.
captin1

Shiro wrote:

You can just call your own circle of friends and ask them all to post in this thread insulting BATs, but it will never do anything.
I am fairly certain that broccoly did not ask any of us directly to post here and say anything like that. Those of us who have voiced concerns on why this has been unranked are posting on our own accord because we firmly believe that this is unfair treatment of the mapper
Mashley
Glad to see BATs finally having the balls to step in and unrank maps that don't meet the standards that we should expect in the Ranked category. I take no issue with having different styles used, but it is simply ludicrous to expect that every style can fit with every song and unfortunately the case with this map is that the mapper has used a style which cannot possibly work with the song in question.

An example I have used when discussing this map in #modhelp is that while fast slider speed changes work for example in TrigonometrY's map of Knife Party - Fire Hive (http://osu.ppy.sh/s/102597) due to the nature of the song, Cry More is a slow paced song with a pretty consistent rhythm and therefore it is illogical to be changing slider speeds so wildly. The Broccoly difficulty is beyond saving, and will honestly require a full remap to be up the standard that I would expect from ranked. On a fundamental level, the map does not fit the song and that is central to how mapping works.

On a somewhat unrelated note, the white flash at 02:17:332 (1) - can cause confusion when combined with the white slider on screen at that point so I would recommend changing it.
dkun

Dark Fang wrote:

btw, I have no idea why this is has been unranked.
Were the thoughts objective? or were they only a few BAT's subjective thought?
i can't find unrankable reason except offset -it's possible use online offset- there are also problems in the unranked post.

the First reason that - "the spacing feels completely erratic", that's true. but why is it unrankable? we should respect the mappers. Broccoly diff has been already ranked once, and the problems are not significantly serious. do the mappers have to map being pressured like this?

the Second reason that - "the map uses AR9 for a song that is described by the mapper themselves as "calm", certainly Broccoly wrote "slow song" on creator's word. but is AR must follow that? it's stereotypes. I can say "AR 9 is proper for this map". it's hard to read? do blame your eye-hand coordination. most players feel AR 9 is fun more than AR 8. and this is not unrankable reason.

the Third reason that - "the map uses highly inconsistent extended sliders some of which are slowed down and with jumps afterwards which makes the map extremely confusing to read and awkward to play", ah. be honest, I don't even know what to say. it's a little bit unplayable to some of the few players, but not unrankable. at least not unplayable for me. Actually, most people enjoyed and were interested in this map
t/146542

Let me reiterate Ephemeral's post.

Ephemeral wrote:

Unranking was often considered as a negative event or something shameful or harmful for a map in the past. Starting today, that is no longer the case. A map may be unranked by any BAT if there are elements within the map that are of particular concern from either a subjective or objective standpoint.

What this means in layman's terms is that if there is a problem which requires an unrank to fix and your map has not been ranked for at least a week, it may be unranked temporarily in order to fix the issue. If discussion reveals that there was no issue in the first place for whatever reason, your map will be reranked as it was. This will all be carefully watched to ensure that maps with problems are resolved in a timely fashion, and mappers are not left hanging.
An unrank can be subjective. A few team members thought that this should have been unranked, and the offset was off at that, so we did the deed. If discussion proves that it shouldn't change, then it won't change. But the mapper has already taken some suggestions, at that. That post has been there for the last three months yet you're asking "why did this need to be unranked??!".

Also I'd like to urge compromise in these mod posts and discussion.
Zare

Mashley wrote:

Glad to see BATs finally having the balls to step in and unrank maps that don't meet the standards that we should expect in the Ranked category. I take no issue with having different styles used, but it is simply ludicrous to expect that every style can fit with every song and unfortunately the case with this map is that the mapper has used a style which cannot possibly work with the song in question.

An example I have used when discussing this map in #modhelp is that while fast slider speed changes work for example in TrigonometrY's map of Knife Party - Fire Hive (http://osu.ppy.sh/s/102597) due to the nature of the song, Cry More is a slow paced song with a pretty consistent rhythm and therefore it is illogical to be changing slider speeds so wildly. The Broccoly difficulty is beyond saving, and will honestly require a full remap to be up the standard that I would expect from ranked. On a fundamental level, the map does not fit the song and that is central to how mapping works.
Why are you guys like this. If Shiro's mod gets applied the map will be pretty amazing, fitting, structured and fun, especially with the slowdowns and 3/4 sliders, without needing a "full remap"
popner
In some parts, the flow of slow-down slider can be increased(to prevent 100), but generally it's not a big issue. My opinion is this map can be re-ranked without any big change in pattern. Thus if there is any argument inside the team, more inputs from BATs are needed.

And there is no need to complain about the unrank.

dkun wrote:

What this means in layman's terms is that if there is a problem which requires an unrank to fix and your map has not been ranked for at least a week, it may be unranked temporarily in order to fix the issue. If discussion reveals that there was no issue in the first place for whatever reason, your map will be reranked as it was. This will all be carefully watched to ensure that maps with problems are resolved in a timely fashion, and mappers are not left hanging.
Raging Bull

dkun wrote:

Ephemeral wrote:

Unranking was often considered as a negative event or something shameful or harmful for a map in the past. Starting today, that is no longer the case. A map may be unranked by any BAT if there are elements within the map that are of particular concern from either a subjective or objective standpoint.

What this means in layman's terms is that if there is a problem which requires an unrank to fix and your map has not been ranked for at least a week, it may be unranked temporarily in order to fix the issue. If discussion reveals that there was no issue in the first place for whatever reason, your map will be reranked as it was. This will all be carefully watched to ensure that maps with problems are resolved in a timely fashion, and mappers are not left hanging.

Sorry but that's how I usually see unranks. It takes a long time to get it get it ranked again.
Zare
Can we just wait for the mapper's response on Shiro's great mod? I think there will be no need for any kind of drama it it gets applied, considering how much thought Shiro put into how to improve the map using the inital ideas and style of the mapper instead of just forcing her own opinion on the map.
Topic Starter
Broccoly

Shiro wrote:

First of all, the slow sliders. I like the idea of using 3/4 for some beats. It extends the beat in a nice and fitting way, but the fact that almost every single of the 3/4 used is a slowdown+jump kills this idea and makes it less important, not to mention that it's used inconsistently which makes it feel worse. Here's what I suggest: keep the slowdown+jump on a certain rhythm to emphasize it and keep the other 3/4 at a normal length and spacing. The 3/4 does feel good numerous times, but the fact that everything is emphasized means that nothing gets actually emphasized anymore and that feels awkward. So I suggest to keep the slowdown and jump on some of them, keeping the jumps at the same spacing for consistency and because it gives the map a pattern it follows, which gives it a nice structure, like a spine bone it's attached to. I'm talking about this pattern: 00:24:279 (1,1) - (let's call it the bone pattern) which I think should be used for every single of these rhythms for the reasons I described in this wall of text. The idea that you should basically copypaste the pattern is important because it makes the structure perfect. In the song, the same exact notes come back roughly every 8-9 seconds and I firmly believe that if the map follows that it would feel a lot better. That means all of these:
00:32:501 (1,1) -
00:40:723 (1,2) - turn the second beat into a 1/1 slider like 00:24:279 (1,1) - fixed
00:48:945 (1,1) - the first one should be reversed to be consistent I like the flow now regardless of the consistency; tho I did move 00:49:288 (1) this closer to the white slider
00:57:167 (1,1) -
01:05:389 (3,1) - Turn this one into a slowdown+jump like 00:24:279 (1,1) - this one i didn't use slowdown because there is a drum beat on 01:05:560 - which would sound weird if I used 3/4 slowdown slider
01:13:611 (1,1) -
01:21:833 (1,1) -
01:30:055 (1,2) -
01:38:277 (1,2) -
02:02:943 (1,1) -
02:11:165 (1,1) -
02:19:387 (1,1) -
02:27:609 (3,1) - didn't use slowdown because it would get in the way of the ongoing excited flow
02:35:831 (2,1) - ^same reason
02:44:053 (3,1) - ^
02:48:164 (2,1) - Used a single circle instead, to create the similar effect; same logic with this 01:31:768 (2)

Any other 3/4 should not be slowed down to make sure that these get particular emphasis. Let's see every 3/4 use in the map that I didn't already point out:
00:27:362 (3,1) - this 3/4 is good. The rhythm at this point is similar to the ones you've tried to highlight, but it's not the one you try to highlight, so the fact that this isn't slowed down makes it feels less emphasized than those while still having its own unique feeling. That's good and that's what you should have gone through
00:37:297 (3,4) - This one however doesn't follow anything and feels out of place. The song doesn't go for anything special at this point, so there's no point in emphasizing something that doesn't exist. You should have kept this a 1/2 slider. I wanted to give some rhythmic variation, to make it not boring by keep using the same rhythm. I am aware that there's nothing special going on in the song; I didn't try to emphasize anything. I used white sliders where I wanted to emphasize, but the ordinary(colored) 3/4 sliders like those are used to add flavor to the rhythm, not to emphasize.
00:43:806 (1,1) - If you look at how the song is made, you'll realize that this is exactly the same rhythm as 00:27:362 (3,1) and as such, it should follow the same train of thought. However, you decided to slow down this one which is inconsistent and breaks the slowdown pattern you've been trying to use. A 3/4 here would be awesome and fit, just like 00:27:362 (3,1) - but the slowdown+jump is out of place. Please remove it and use normal spacing, like 00:27:362 (3,1) - Fixed. Makes sense.
00:52:371 (1,2,3) - inconsistent spacing here and that looks absolutely horrible. the problem here is that the use of 3/4 is inconsistent within those three objects. Listen carefully to the song: it has some kind of microbreak right on 00:52:371 (1) - then goes fur sustained, flowy notes for 00:52:714 (2,3) - . Your map goes for sustain, slowly notes for 00:52:371 (1,2) - and a microbreak with 00:53:056 (3) - . What I suggest is to make 00:52:371 (1) - a 1/2 slider and 00:53:056 (3) - a 3/4 slider to follow the song more accurately The pitch that starts on 00:52:371 (1) is sustained until the next pitch 00:52:714 (2) comes in without a break. If I were to use a 1/2 slider for (1) then that doesn't fit to the music; the slider would just stop when the pitch is keep being sustained. Same reason goes for (2); the pitch is being sustained w/o a break until the next pitch (3) comes in. I used 1/2 slider for the slider (3) because I wanted to emphasize that big downbeat on 00:53:399 through utilizing the jump from the end of the slider (3). If I were to use 3/4 for the slider(3), then I'd have to place 00:53:056 (3) - this and 00:53:399 (1) - this closely together, which would be less effective at emphasizing the downbeat on 00:53:399
01:16:694 (1,1) - See 00:27:362 (3,1) - . The song basically restarts at this point - why does your map follow completely different ideas ? Just look back at what you did in the beginning and follow the same logic. I'm not asking to copypaste, and you can make the spacing a bit wider or change the jump configuration because this part is a bit more emphasized in the song, but the logic behind it should stay consistent 01:16:523 (2,3) - replaced white slider with ordinary 3/4 slider like 00:27:362 (3,1) -
01:29:713 (1) - why not. It feels a bit anticlimatic and inconsistent because you never used 3/4 before the pattern I pointed out first, and shifts the focus from it onto this kickslider+slider, which feels quite wrong if you want to follow and consistent pattern and structure. I'd suggest to make this a 1/2 slider, but at least remove the slowdown I think it doesn't feel 'wrong', both from the perspective of fittingness to music and playablility. I am am well aware and admit that I didn't use those patterns before that part, but rather than feeling 'wrong', I intended the players to feel 'fun', 'refreshing', and 'interesting' through that variation; a modder actually liked that pattern a lot and told me that it's creative. I don't want the map to be too much consistent to the point which it doesn't feel fun anymore but boring, mostly by overused-expected rhythm pattern.
01:31:768 (2) - This should be a 3/4 slider. Notice how the song builds a momentum into 01:32:111 (1) - ? You don't translate that momentum because of this lone circle which breaks your flow and doesn't let the map continue and build into the slider. Having a 3/4 slider here would keep the flow going and build the momentum into the bone pattern of the map I see what you mean, but having a lone circle followed by a NCed slider straight below (which elicits the brief stop moment after hitting the circle) works as well in building the momentum. Good suggestion however.
01:37:935 (1) - See 01:29:713 (1) -
02:15:961 (1,1) - You're using the bone pattern at a place where it doesn't fit, and that screws your attempt to build momentum. A slowdown could work here, but only if it's a 1/1 slider, otherwise you're adding the bone pattern at a wrong point and it screws the structure of the map. I honestly suggest using a slowed down 1/1 slider with a circle at 02:16:475 - and then use jumps for 02:16:475 (2,1,2,3,4) - fixed; used 1/1 slowdown slider with a circle after; added jumps
02:17:332 (1,1) - once again you use the bone pattern where it doesn't belong, and right before its righteous place too, which makes the actual bone pattern feel insignifican. The first slider should be 1/2 and not slowed down to make sure that this doesn't happen replaced the slider with two circles
02:29:322 (2) - this slider being reversed is very confusing and plays awfully because you have to rush to its head, then go back to where it ends, and then you jump back to the right into (3) that goes back to the left again. Reversing this one would make the flow 02:28:979 (1,2,3) - a lot better because you'd get a standard flow from (1) to (2) and then an oval flow from (2) to (3) which leads properly into (1) and that's absolutely awesome. Let me draw you pics to show you what I mean because it's important: what you have and what I suggest Yeah.. Of course i know that way the flow will be better, but at the same time that forms a flow which is used in tons of other maps, which I think is boring. I wanted to try something new and playable at the same time, even though it might not flow as well. Numerous testplayers I saw didn't have any problems..

That's it for the 3/4. Now let's have a look at your comboing, which is highly inconsistent as well. If you listen to the song you'll realize that the main theme, repeated through the entire song, fits in two stanzas, which means that the best comboing you could go for would be one new combo every second white tick. The beginning follows this in the first few seconds, then you get lost and starting adding unneeded new combos.
00:03:483 (2) - you could add a new combo on this but it's not needed
00:11:457 (1) - remove
00:16:014 (1) - remove
00:19:432 (1) - remove

Now that we got this pattern in mind, let's have a look at the rest of the map. It should follow the same pattern because the song doesn't change the way it's made, so neither should the map and the comboing. Before you say that you're breaking the comboing of the bone pattern, please follow this until the end - let's do this step by step. first, let's make the entire comboing consistent regardless of the bone pattern:
00:22:224 (1,1) - whatever you choose for this, make sure it's the same as 00:03:103 (1,2) -
00:23:594 (1,1) - remove these
00:25:649 (1) - remove
00:27:705 (1) - remove
00:29:760 (1) - remove
00:31:816 (1,1) - remove
00:33:871 (1) - remove
00:35:927 (1) - remove
00:37:982 (1) - remove
00:40:038 (1,1) - remove
00:41:066 (9) - add a new combo here and remove 00:41:408 (1) -
00:42:093 (1) - remove
00:43:806 (1,1) - remove
00:46:204 (1) - remove
00:48:260 (1) - remove
00:48:945 (1) - remove
00:50:315 (1) - remove
00:52:371 (1) - remove
00:54:426 (1) - remove
00:56:482 (1,1) - remove
00:58:537 (1) - remove
01:00:593 (1) - remove
01:02:648 (1,1) - remove
01:04:704 (1) - remove
01:06:759 (1) - remove
01:08:815 (1) - remove
01:10:870 (1) - remove
01:12:926 (1,1) - remove
01:14:981 (1) - remove
01:16:694 (1,1) - remove
01:19:092 (1) - remove
01:21:148 (1,1) - remove
01:23:203 (1) - remove
01:24:916 (1) - remove
01:27:314 (1) - remove
01:29:370 (1,1) - remove and add a new one on 01:30:398 (2) -
01:31:425 (1,1) - remove
01:33:481 (1) - remove
01:35:536 (1) - remove
01:37:592 (1,1) - remove
01:39:647 (1) - remove
01:41:703 (1) - remove
01:43:416 (1) - remove
02:02:258 (1,1) - remove
02:04:313 (1) - remove
02:06:369 (1) - remove
02:08:424 (1) - remove
02:10:480 (1,1) - remove
02:12:535 (1) - remove
02:14:591 (1) - remove
02:15:961 (1,1,1) - remove
02:18:702 (1,1) - remove
02:20:757 (1) - remove
02:22:813 (1) - remove
02:24:868 (1) - remove
02:26:924 (1) - remove
02:28:979 (1) - remove
02:31:035 (1) - remove
02:32:405 (1,1) - remove
02:35:146 (1) - remove
02:37:201 (1) - remove
02:39:257 (1) - remove
02:41:312 (1) - remove
02:42:854 (1,1) - remove
02:45:423 (1) - remove
02:47:479 (1) - remove
02:49:534 (1) - remove

--------comboing all fixed---------

Okay, now that we have the basic structure of the song pinned done through the comboing, let's take a look back and look at where I asked you to use the bone pattern. If you count combos by groups of four, you'll realize that the bone pattern is always used on the second of those four new combos. This is because it's how the song is made the structure I asked you to add through the comboing and bone pattern emphasizes it perfectly. Now, if you want to add a specific comboing for it (like make a new combo for each slider of it), you can, and it will still be consistent.

I think I'm going to stop there, that's already a lot of work. I'd have a lot more to say in terms of patterns and rhythm, and I haven't even looked at the other diffs yet, but you can use everything that I said here and apply it to the other diffs. Please do not hesitate to call me back if you want me to mod the rest of it (including patterns and stuff), I will happily do so. Good luck.
Thanks a lot Shiro. The mod was really helpful, even though I think I didn't apply like half your suggestions; but it taught me something.. who knows if I will use them in the future lol. For NCing, I don't think i applied your suggestions word per word since I didn't change all the things for the 3/4 sliders and etc. tho I think now it makes more sense (might have made a few mistakes..)

also I didn't ask my friends to attack BATs; that's just childish.
Topic Starter
Broccoly
Ok. Broccoly diff updated.

Yeah

dkun wrote:

This will all be carefully watched to ensure that maps with problems are resolved in a timely fashion, and mappers are not left hanging.
and takes more than a month to rerank Mushikui Psychedelism
Before you guys persuade the mappers that an unrank is nothing to worry about, why not show a good example first?

Ephemeral wrote:

A map may be unranked by any BAT if there are elements within the map that are of particular concern from either a subjective or objective standpoint.
Also, I still think allowing a single BAT member to unrank a map based on a subjective opinion is not fair at all.
In my opinion, unranking should be done after at least 4 out of 5 BATs agree to it after a thorough discussion, if the reason for unranking is subjective.
Moreover, placing unranked maps highest in pending beatmaps forum will facilitate the time it takes to rerank, since more people will notice it and there will be more input.
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