you guys get it all wrong wow I'm not even surprised it's really sad
maybe one day you'll stop swearing by "unrankable "unrankable" "unrankable" and try to understand points without being offended because someone doesn't think your map is perfect
Erratic spacing is in theory unrankable, except it's been let through the net for years and now people assume that spacing just doesn't exist.
The fact that the mapper describes the song as
calm slow, then makes a map that goes entirely against that idea, is a problem because it's a deep inconsistency between the mapper's idea of the song and their map. I am not capable of reading minds, and when I see that the mapper considers a song calm, then goes on to make a highly jumpy, gimmicky and unflowy map, something went wrong in the process. Calling people bad players won't get you anywhere, especially when it's based on absolutely nothing (I could read this fine in both AR8 and AR9, except AR9 feels extremely anti climatic, despite the surprisingly fast kind of mapping the map uses).
The slowdowns and jumps can be classified as abuse of the slider speed change feature because it makes things purposely confusing which is not something that should be done. After giving the entire map a bit more thinking I'm actually fine with a few of the slowdowns because I found that they fit in some way, but some of them feel abusive (see below).
Now onto more direct quotes:
Broccoly wrote:
is that how you decide unrankable stuff?
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/146542Broccoly wrote:
I never described the map as 'calm'
You actually didn't use the word calm; however
op wrote:
So beautiful that I had to map even though I usually don't map slow songs"
Broccoly wrote:
There were tons of FCers and SSers
Which absolutely doesn't mean that the map was intuitive and all. Players nowadays can FC anything, so judging how good a map plays on that is stupid. You can just call your own circle of friends and ask them all to post in this thread insulting BATs, but it will never do anything.
Broccoly wrote:
Also, the map has once already been ranked
And shouldn't have been, which is why it was unranked.
Come[Back]Home wrote:
People should accept other mappingstyles. Otherwise every Map would be the same, with always the same patterns etc.
It's already the case, actually. All maps seem to have lost any kind of notion of spacing to try to go for snappy inconsistent jumps and rhythms because that's what "players like".
Now onto the map.
I can safely say that what ticks me off the most in this is that the map obviously tries to have structure, but fails to follow it. I'm going to focus on that because it would make the map
absolutely awesome if it was a bit more consistent and structured.
After a single testplay of the Broccoly diff I can say that the spacing is difficult to relate to the song. It is inconsistent and doesn't seem to follow any kind of logic based on it. The rhythm themselves feel disconnected as well. The song has a very clear beat - why am I clicking a different rhythm ? Where's the song in the map ? Is it a background sound you used to go with your own composition (which is nothing wrong, don't misunderstand, but I would at least like to know if you tried to follow the song or tried to add your own ideas into it) ? Based on the name I supposed you tried to add your own thing, but why is it so inconsistent ? And before you attack me for being a bad player and hating your map, I didn't *hate* this, but I do think it could be a lot better and that's why I'm here.
Anyway, I'll be modding that based on that assumption, so get ready for a ton of suggestions and balance/consistency fixes. Whether or not you follow them is at your own discretion, but don't be conceited and take the time to read them and try them.
First of all, the slow sliders. I like the idea of using 3/4 for some beats. It extends the beat in a nice and fitting way, but the fact that almost every single of the 3/4 used is a slowdown+jump kills this idea and makes it less important, not to mention that it's used inconsistently which makes it feel worse. Here's what I suggest: keep the slowdown+jump on
a certain rhythm to emphasize it and keep the other 3/4 at a normal length and spacing. The 3/4 does feel good numerous times, but the fact that everything is emphasized means that nothing gets actually emphasized anymore and that feels awkward. So I suggest to keep the slowdown and jump on some of them, keeping the jumps at the same spacing for consistency and because it gives the map a pattern it follows, which gives it a nice structure, like a spine bone it's attached to. I'm talking about this pattern: 00:24:279 (1,1) - (let's call it the bone pattern) which I think should be used for every single of these rhythms for the reasons I described in this wall of text. The idea that you should basically copypaste the pattern is important because it makes the structure perfect. In the song, the same exact notes come back roughly every 8-9 seconds and I firmly believe that if the map follows that it would feel a lot better. That means all of these:
00:32:501 (1,1) -
00:40:723 (1,2) - turn the second beat into a 1/1 slider like 00:24:279 (1,1) -
00:48:945 (1,1) - the first one should be reversed to be consistent
00:57:167 (1,1) -
01:05:389 (3,1) - Turn this one into a slowdown+jump like 00:24:279 (1,1) -
01:13:611 (1,1) -
01:21:833 (1,1) -
01:30:055 (1,2) -
01:38:277 (1,2) -
02:02:943 (1,1) -
02:11:165 (1,1) -
02:19:387 (1,1) -
02:27:609 (3,1) -
02:35:831 (2,1) -
02:44:053 (3,1) -
02:48:164 (2,1) -
Any other 3/4 should
not be slowed down to make sure that these get particular emphasis. Let's see every 3/4 use in the map that I didn't already point out:
00:27:362 (3,1) - this 3/4 is good. The rhythm at this point is similar to the ones you've tried to highlight, but it's not the one you try to highlight, so the fact that this isn't slowed down makes it feels less emphasized than those while still having its own unique feeling. That's good and that's what you should have gone through
00:37:297 (3,4) - This one however doesn't follow anything and feels out of place. The song doesn't go for anything special at this point, so there's no point in emphasizing something that doesn't exist. You should have kept this a 1/2 slider.
00:43:806 (1,1) - If you look at how the song is made, you'll realize that this is
exactly the same rhythm as 00:27:362 (3,1) and as such, it should follow the same train of thought. However, you decided to slow down this one which is inconsistent and breaks the slowdown pattern you've been trying to use. A 3/4 here would be awesome and fit, just like 00:27:362 (3,1) - but the slowdown+jump is out of place. Please remove it and use normal spacing, like 00:27:362 (3,1) -
00:52:371 (1,2,3) - inconsistent spacing here and that looks absolutely horrible. the problem here is that the use of 3/4 is inconsistent
within those three objects. Listen carefully to the song: it has some kind of microbreak right on 00:52:371 (1) - then goes fur sustained, flowy notes for 00:52:714 (2,3) - . Your map goes for sustain, slowly notes for 00:52:371 (1,2) - and a microbreak with 00:53:056 (3) - . What I suggest is to make 00:52:371 (1) - a 1/2 slider and 00:53:056 (3) - a 3/4 slider to follow the song more accurately
01:16:694 (1,1) - See 00:27:362 (3,1) - . The song basically restarts at this point - why does your map follow completely different ideas ? Just look back at what you did in the beginning and follow the same logic. I'm not asking to copypaste, and you can make the spacing a bit wider or change the jump configuration because this part is a bit more emphasized in the song, but the logic behind it should stay consistent
01:29:713 (1) - why not. It feels a bit anticlimatic and inconsistent because you never used 3/4 before the pattern I pointed out first, and shifts the focus from it onto this kickslider+slider, which feels quite wrong if you want to follow and consistent pattern and structure. I'd suggest to make this a 1/2 slider, but at least remove the slowdown
01:31:768 (2) - This should be a 3/4 slider. Notice how the song builds a momentum into 01:32:111 (1) - ? You don't translate that momentum because of this lone circle which breaks your flow and doesn't let the map continue and build into the slider. Having a 3/4 slider here would keep the flow going and build the momentum into the bone pattern of the map
01:37:935 (1) - See 01:29:713 (1) -
02:15:961 (1,1) - You're using the bone pattern at a place where it doesn't fit, and that screws your attempt to build momentum. A slowdown could work here, but only if it's a 1/1 slider, otherwise you're adding the bone pattern at a wrong point and it screws the structure of the map. I honestly suggest using a slowed down 1/1 slider with a circle at 02:16:475 - and then use jumps for 02:16:475 (2,1,2,3,4) -
02:17:332 (1,1) - once again you use the bone pattern where it doesn't belong, and right before its righteous place too, which makes the actual bone pattern feel insignifican. The first slider should be 1/2 and not slowed down to make sure that this doesn't happen
02:29:322 (2) - this slider being reversed is very confusing and plays awfully because you have to rush to its head, then go back to where it ends, and then you jump back to the right into (3) that goes back to the left again. Reversing this one would make the flow 02:28:979 (1,2,3) - a lot better because you'd get a standard flow from (1) to (2) and then an oval flow from (2) to (3) which leads properly into (1) and that's absolutely awesome. Let me draw you pics to show you what I mean because it's important:
what you have and
what I suggestThat's it for the 3/4. Now let's have a look at your comboing, which is highly inconsistent as well. If you listen to the song you'll realize that the main theme, repeated through the entire song, fits in two stanzas, which means that the best comboing you could go for would be one new combo every second white tick. The beginning follows this in the first few seconds, then you get lost and starting adding unneeded new combos.
00:03:483 (2) - you could add a new combo on this but it's not needed
00:11:457 (1) - remove
00:16:014 (1) - remove
00:19:432 (1) - remove
Now that we got this pattern in mind, let's have a look at the rest of the map. It should follow the same pattern because the song doesn't change the way it's made, so neither should the map and the comboing. Before you say that you're breaking the comboing of the bone pattern, please follow this until the end - let's do this step by step. first, let's make the entire comboing consistent regardless of the bone pattern:
00:22:224 (1,1) - whatever you choose for this, make sure it's the same as 00:03:103 (1,2) -
00:23:594 (1,1) - remove these
00:25:649 (1) - remove
00:27:705 (1) - remove
00:29:760 (1) - remove
00:31:816 (1,1) - remove
00:33:871 (1) - remove
00:35:927 (1) - remove
00:37:982 (1) - remove
00:40:038 (1,1) - remove
00:41:066 (9) - add a new combo here and remove 00:41:408 (1) -
00:42:093 (1) - remove
00:43:806 (1,1) - remove
00:46:204 (1) - remove
00:48:260 (1) - remove
00:48:945 (1) - remove
00:50:315 (1) - remove
00:52:371 (1) - remove
00:54:426 (1) - remove
00:56:482 (1,1) - remove
00:58:537 (1) - remove
01:00:593 (1) - remove
01:02:648 (1,1) - remove
01:04:704 (1) - remove
01:06:759 (1) - remove
01:08:815 (1) - remove
01:10:870 (1) - remove
01:12:926 (1,1) - remove
01:14:981 (1) - remove
01:16:694 (1,1) - remove
01:19:092 (1) - remove
01:21:148 (1,1) - remove
01:23:203 (1) - remove
01:24:916 (1) - remove
01:27:314 (1) - remove
01:29:370 (1,1) - remove and add a new one on 01:30:398 (2) -
01:31:425 (1,1) - remove
01:33:481 (1) - remove
01:35:536 (1) - remove
01:37:592 (1,1) - remove
01:39:647 (1) - remove
01:41:703 (1) - remove
01:43:416 (1) - remove
02:02:258 (1,1) - remove
02:04:313 (1) - remove
02:06:369 (1) - remove
02:08:424 (1) - remove
02:10:480 (1,1) - remove
02:12:535 (1) - remove
02:14:591 (1) - remove
02:15:961 (1,1,1) - remove
02:18:702 (1,1) - remove
02:20:757 (1) - remove
02:22:813 (1) - remove
02:24:868 (1) - remove
02:26:924 (1) - remove
02:28:979 (1) - remove
02:31:035 (1) - remove
02:32:405 (1,1) - remove
02:35:146 (1) - remove
02:37:201 (1) - remove
02:39:257 (1) - remove
02:41:312 (1) - remove
02:42:854 (1,1) - remove
02:45:423 (1) - remove
02:47:479 (1) - remove
02:49:534 (1) - remove
Okay, now that we have the basic structure of the song pinned done through the comboing, let's take a look back and look at where I asked you to use the bone pattern. If you count combos by groups of four, you'll realize that the bone pattern is
always used on the second of those four new combos. This is because it's how the song is made the structure I asked you to add through the comboing and bone pattern emphasizes it perfectly. Now, if you want to add a specific comboing for it (like make a new combo for each slider of it), you can, and
it will still be consistent.
I think I'm going to stop there, that's already a lot of work. I'd have a lot more to say in terms of patterns and rhythm, and I haven't even looked at the other diffs yet, but you can use everything that I said here and apply it to the other diffs. Please do not hesitate to call me back if you want me to mod the rest of it (including patterns and stuff), I will happily do so. Good luck.