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 Rhythm Incarnate 1,588 posts   |
Quote: Every slider must have a clear and visible path to follow from start to end. Sliders which overlap themselves in a way that makes any section unreadable or ambiguous (including "burai sliders") cannot be used. This is so that no slider has an appearance that is confusing or impossible for the player to read. Additionally, the slider borders must never be covered up from the slider being packed in too tightly. However, sliders that cross over themselves are fine as long as the borders are clearly visible. The last two sentences don't really have much of a point imo, there is no problem with the borders being covered up. It's always obvious which way the slider goes, and for short sliders it's generally impossible to make them big enough to satisfy this. Suggestion: remove the last two sentences  食べるのが大好きだよ！
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 Rhythm Incarnate 2,141 posts |
 Rhythm Incarnate 1,744 posts   |
 Rhythm Incarnate 1,308 posts |
Let's get controversial. I'd go even further and say that I enjoy me some burai sliders once in a while. I will concede that there is a bit of inherent difficulty in reading them (particularly with snaking sliders turned off) since they eventually pull your eyes away from the real endpoint but I also think part of the reason people say they're hard to read is simply because they are not used to seeing them. Reading them comes with experience, just like reading any other mapping technique. And while they don't fit the music so well in most cases, there is the occasional time when they do.
I think an example of them being used nicely is in Border of Death [Hard] in the section that starts about 1/4 into the song. There's also one right before the end. A bad example would be, well, probably most burai sliders. They're usually not the right slider for the job. I don't agree with banning anything outright if there is even the slightest chance of it being used appropriately. While their bad uses outnumber their good uses, I think burais and similar overlapping sliders should be allowed if used tastefully. Just mod away the bad ones during the ranking process. A guideline discouraging their use would be fine with me. |
 Beatmap Appreciation Team 7,721 posts  |
pieguy1372 wrote: The last two sentences don't really have much of a point imo, there is no problem with the borders being covered up. It's always obvious which way the slider goes, and for short sliders it's generally impossible to make them big enough to satisfy this. Suggestion: remove the last two sentences Does this look obvious to you? SPOILER (click to toggle) Care to spot the diference? and even if they do heal the scar will remain and nothing will ever be the same |
 Rhythm Incarnate 1,408 posts  |
The top one is probably an awfully-made, nonsentical slider that goes right, then back left and then right again just to confuse the player. That one should fall under the "common sense" rule.
The bottom one looks like a normal wiggle-slider, albeit a crappily-made one. Unless the sliders are practically designed to confuse players, pretty much every reasonable slider shape is sight-readable. And intentional confusion should be banned anyway for being useless and aggravating fake difficulty. |
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Beatmap Appreciation Team 7,721 posts |
 Rhythm Incarnate 3,447 posts |
Luna wrote: Unless the sliders are practically designed to confuse players, pretty much every reasonable slider shape is sight-readable. And intentional confusion should be banned anyway for being useless and aggravating fake difficulty. That's pretty much what we're trying to ban here. For example: SPOILER (click to toggle) That is banned by this rule, since it does not have a clear path. You pretty much can't tell where on the slider path it goes back and forth. You might say, "Oh, that's just common sense!" You'd be surprised at how often newer mappers go, "Hey, I'll do something that hasn't been done before; this retarded slider! \o/" Newer mappers often *don't* have "common sense" and hence need specifics. As far as Sakura's examples go, the fact that you went "probably" and "looks like" shows that they aren't 100% readable, because then you would've been 100% confident. I'll prove her point more in a bit, to show how the border thing can be abused, even with peppy sliders. [img]http://puu.sh/Grie[/img]
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Rhythm Incarnate 1,408 posts |
Yes, but the rules draft also includes the rule that maps must be sight-readable on the first attempt, which basically already has this covered. Even if you don't think common sense is enough to be applied here, intentionally confusing sliders are not sight-readable (as I said before) and thus already banned. No real need to double up this rule.
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 Rhythm Incarnate 2,200 posts |
Ekaru wrote: Luna wrote: Unless the sliders are practically designed to confuse players, pretty much every reasonable slider shape is sight-readable. And intentional confusion should be banned anyway for being useless and aggravating fake difficulty. That's pretty much what we're trying to ban here. For example: SPOILER (click to toggle) That is banned by this rule, since it does not have a clear path. You pretty much can't tell where on the slider path it goes back and forth. You might say, "Oh, that's just common sense!" You'd be surprised at how often newer mappers go, "Hey, I'll do something that hasn't been done before; this retarded slider! \o/" Newer mappers often *don't* have "common sense" and hence need specifics. As far as Sakura's examples go, the fact that you went "probably" and "looks like" shows that they aren't 100% readable, because then you would've been 100% confident. I'll prove her point more in a bit, to show how the border thing can be abused, even with peppy sliders. okay bring on the examples and plus this has been discussed in the non-public topic for this |
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Rhythm Incarnate 3,447 posts |
Luna wrote: Yes, but the rules draft also includes the rule that maps must be sight-readable on the first attempt Yes, but lots of people want that rule removed. And if that rule *does* get removed, then there's nothing to cover this kind of BS: SPOILER (click to toggle) At a glance, it looks like it goes in a straight-forward path. However, closer inspection reveals that it goes back on itself at one point... and God forbid if you're playing with mm sliders. Another one: SPOILER (click to toggle) This one's much worse... and something that's entirely possible for a newer player to come up with when they're feeling "clever"(like the above one). Again, god forbid you're playing with mm sliders. If your slider goes in a straightforward path, even if it overlaps itself, then most MAT/BAT are probably not going to raise a fuss since they won't find an issue with it. It's only when you do stupid shit, like Sakura's and my examples, that they'll go, "...No." I think that some of you are overreacting to this rule. :P [img]http://puu.sh/Grie[/img]
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 Rhythm Incarnate 7,333 posts  |
I don't think this rule should exist at all. It's so subjective that all cases have to be looked into individually.
Before you say "but we can't look every map in existance", as we may know, there are BATs and MATs, and almost certainly a map like that shouldn't be ranked. Last edited by Blue Dragon on , edited 1 time in total.
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Rhythm Incarnate 2,200 posts |
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Rhythm Incarnate 7,333 posts |
Slidertracks like these are pretty much subjective, but it's pretty much fun and I don't see why not. I personally see the sliderpath, however some people argue they can't read it on MMsliders. As I said, all cases should be looked into individually. Because, you know, you can't check all maps ever posted, but a map doesn't get ranked automatically, you know. |
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Rhythm Incarnate 1,408 posts |
I play with mmsliders and have absolutely no problems reading the examples by BD even though they overlap themselves.
That's why I dislike this rule, it discourages almost all self-overlap etc when in most cases it's easily readable. That in combination with the sight-readability rule pretty much makes this redundant. |
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